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  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    yes, those goddamn greedy Priests who realized samu + apo was enough to instawin the aggro matchups so they eventually started to tech against the mirror because they realized that the only way they actually lose is if they build suboptimally into the mirror. They should be punished for optimizing a deck around its matchups, if only we all just played like the 99% then we wouldn't have to nerf good decks.

     

    Noone'S gonna play Sethek/Bloodweaver, that deck loses to everything. If anything Control Priest will just go back to being as defensive as possible and trying to capitalize on the plethora of aggro decks that gas out if you remove their board once (which they can still do via Against all Odds!)

     

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    The issue was never sam+apo (It happens at best once a game, and the chances of drawing sam along with one of your apo's are pretty low.  )

    The issue was the idiotic priests who galvanized the matchup by including southsea scoundrel.  I agree that including that card was a dumb greedy decision and I don't run it in any of my matchups (why would I include a card that MAYBE edged my chance to win the mirror slightly more instead of including anti-aggro cards?)

    It was really stupid when Priest added cthun in just to prevent fatigue in the mirror.  Honestly as VS said before:  Priests trying to beat other priests were making the deck stupid with the recursive generation.  

    I really don't think Flesh Giants is good enough any more though.  There's a reason it fell off the radar.  The only reliable way to discount it enough early on to be relevant was Devouring Plague.  And with premium 1/3 or 2/3 minions being played 3 mana: deal 4 random damage doesn't cut it for stabilizing.  

    I guarantee with these nerfs, you're gonna see priests gravitate back towards full Sethhek/Bloodweaver builds. As that will probably be the only way they are able to generate the resources necessary to stabilize on board.  Priest has no win condition other then generation, and they just nerfed it hard.

     

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    I think the ideal solution would have been to apply damage to enemy minions without it coming directly from Samuro, like if it said "Frenzy: enemy minions take damage equal to Samuro's attack." That way the only thing that changes is a single minion would be hit with the lifesteal effect.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    I agree, if Apo is too big burst heal they should make it 2 mana +1/+2 lifesteal. And just doubling the Renew cost is too much, it should have heal upped.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    If it's any consolation, I'm currently testing the old Fleshgiant build while taking out the nerfed cards (aka Samuro and Apo, still running Wandmaker and Renew as of now because I feel like the card generation is needed). It doesn't feel too  bad and I could easily see it become the new build while the overly greedy N'zoth builds die off as they should (who the fuck allowed Southsea Scoundrel to be a staple?).

    If you're playing Priest purely to shit all over aggro you can still do so without needing to scam with Samuro.

  • Control Isn't Control In Legends

    Those of us who have a background in MTG or even Hearthstone have a pretty good idea of what a control deck is.

    Take warrior for an example, he equips a weapon and smacks a dude using life as a resource.

    He wins when the opponent runs out of stuff.

    In MTG a control player might run planes walkers who have their own health gage to be used as a resource to grind the opponent out.

    But in Legends much of what we call "control" is actually combo decks.

    Ezreal is a great example he encourages you to remove your opponents followers to level him, he's a control card right? No...because he actually becomes a combo card once leveled bursting the opponent down to 0.

    We see something similar with Lee Sin overwhelm, they who endure/nasus and karma is often used as a direct dmg tool as well.

    So what is a "control" card in Legends given the unique way this game is designed.

    Lux is a pretty obvious choice, she literally just gives you free removal, J4 for sure, Tom ketch, kindred, TF, Aphelios, and thats kind of it right now.

    It doesnt help that many of these cards aren't very good, with the exception to the recent buff to j4 he's great.

    Personally I think the developers should be less scared to print hard control tools and Champs going forward, because even lisandra is being used as a combo piece right now.

     

  • Kresh, Lord of Turtling

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    I'm not surprised by the changes but I am upset by them.  They could have least made Renew 2 mana: heal 4.  Instead they just doubled the cost purely to get it out of the wandmaker pool and flipped the middle finger to priests.

    Their meta presence at legend is higher than the rest of ladder, but that doesn't imply a broken winrate.  As others have said both here and on reddit.  Many games were already close calls with Illidari Inquisitor, Doomhammer, or Stampeding coming down and winning close games.  Nerfing both cards kills the classes ability to stabilize (LITERALLY IT'S ONLY ARCHETYPE).  

    I don't even care if these are pre-emptive nerfs for the next expansion.  This is a slap in the face to control players, and I'm sure every mouth breathing face hunter, aggro shaman, or netdecking deathrattle demon hunter is cheering hard right now.  Go ahead downvote me.  I'm so pissed at the developers for this stupid excuse of a balance patch.  

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    Dunno about Standard but in Wild I'm pretty sure the nerf kills Token Druid...or, well, re-kills, since the deck is mostly dead already. Anyway, there's a world of difference between it being 1 or 2 mana. If a Wild Token Druid went first with Gibberling in hand, you might as well call it right there, cause you were dead around turn 4 (sometimes turn 3). Now the pressure would start a turn later and give the opposing player many more options to deal with the card before it can grow out of control. A turn 2 Gibberling followed by an Innervated +1/+1 board buff dies to a Breath of the Infinite, for instance, where previously the Druid would follow that up with another board buff on turn 2 before you even get to coin the Breath. I'm sure there are similarly unclearable scenarios in Standard that are now solvable when the problem starts a turn behind the curve.

  • The Duelist Burndown!

    Omu vs. Omu!

    Omu vs. Omu!

    Omu vs. Omu!

    Omu vs. Omu!

    Omu vs. Omu!

    Omu vs. Omu!

    ...

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

    Apotheosis was a problem even without Samuro just because of how much health they'lll regain with just a single large minion

    Except the nerf changes nothing about that. It doesn't matter if your opponent winds up with an 8/9 or a 9/10, they still regain a crapton of health and have a beefy boy left over after. In mid-game tug-of-war situations over the board, the lifesteal is mostly irrelevant since at that point most damage will have gone into the minions. In that scenario, the nerf to Apotheosis essentially kills the card, because on small to mid-sized minions the -1/-1 is a big deal. So the nerf has changed nothing significant on big minions and absolutely massacred the card in situations where nerfs weren't really warranted. All of that to essentially nerf just the interaction with Samuro. I don't play Standard but I watch it on Youtube a fair bit and not once have I seen a streamer groan about Apotheosis on anything other than specifically Samuro. Because most of the time, you want to kill all Priest minions anyway so they can't value trade them and heal or buff them in a myriad of ways. But when you stick it on a rush minion, which Priest doesn't normally get access to outside neutrals, and stick AoE on the lifesteal, then it's a problem. And it's a problem only Samuro creates.

    As for people not complaining about Samuro, @Avalon, I'd say a good portion of the reason is that many (not all) of the decks that include it or could include it aren't top of the meta for other reasons, so if you get blown out by Samuro in the midgame every 1 in 15 games, it doesn't stick as much. When Handbuff Paladin was doing well in Wild (pre-Crabrider nerf, pretty much), the card was absolutely backbreaking. Between it, Broomstick and unnerfed Crabrider, all of which get pulled by Crystology, there was pretty much no hope for any deck to maintain a board against it.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    These nerfs will weaken priest but I doubt they will make it much less frustrating to play against. Priest has many situationally very strong removal spells so if you ever want to develop a board then your game plan is to hope they do not draw/create the spell they need. You cannot 'play around' what a priest can do.

    The best way to hurt priest is with non-board damage, such as weapons (Doomhammer shaman) or burn spells (mage). A combo finisher should be great but is stopped by Illucia.

    I have been experimenting with control shaman and the Al'Akir + Nightmare combo would be great against priest but Illucia ruins it. Likewise Illucia stops rogue playing for an Alexstrasza + Tenwu finish. I was hoping they would effectively remove Illucia, as they once did to Warsong Commander. It didn't seem likely based on what they said they wanted to target, but I was hoping to be surprised.

  • The Duelist Burndown!

    Well, I started with 113 win deck and I'm pretty sure it's my old deck from Fire FestEVIL. Just hero portrait is changed.

  • Make Room in Your Quest Log for Tomorrow - Nozdormu Day's First Quest is Coming!

    Yeah il do it, itsa  free quest, but i hope i wont run into anyone else with it. Its 1500 extra exp for little effort so why wouldnt i take even it.

    But il just do those 3games and then imeadlty delete that deck and not touch it till next month nozdormu.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    Not that Priest wasn't a problem at high legend... but now that Apotheosis got nuked from orbit, I'm pretty sure I've played my last game of Hearthstone this expansion, and I suspect this is the case for quite a few other players. Don't even care that I haven't hit legend yet... now that Priest's biggest healing card is nerfed, Doomhammers and Trampling Rhinos and Illidari Inquisitors keep flashing before my eyes. Not that they didn't before (I'm in the minority who thinks the real problem with the current meta is off-board damage), but now that the only viable control deck is tier 3 at best, it's just not worth it anymore.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    In my opinion, Blademaster Samuro is not the problem in this case, since the card sees play in other decks (Rush Warrior, Clown Druid, some forms of Libram Paladin) and no one really complains about it. However, the problem comes where its AoE damage effect comes with a Reno Jackson on top of it.

    Not saying Samuro won't be touched in the future, but rather that he's not the main offender when it comes to Apotheosis shenanigans.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    Except Samuro is fine in literally any other scenario. Apotheosis was a problem even without Samuro just because of how much health they'lll regain with just a single large minion (and the cost of having to remove that minion without giving them even more heal).

    It's not the boardclear, it's the subsequent Reno heal that's the problem...and that's all on Apo

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    That's the whole point: the Gibberling nerf doesn't have to nuke the card, but just slow it down/make it a little less good.

    If the change is going to make an impact, even though not of outstanding proportions, we should be okay about it.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    Some pro player leaks it since they get the info beforehand because they need to adjust decklists.

    Also gives somme insight into the process since Apo's change wasn't fully set in stone yet a few days ago. This is probably why we sometimes get those surprise nerf patches that seemingly came out of nowhere. The devs did some testing and then just shipped it when they liked the results.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    <3

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    Bet.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    Not a Standard player myself but I feel the Apotheosis nerf is kinda...misplaced. It's Samuro that's the problem, not a 3 mana +2/+3. Samuro is like the fucking Crabrider, a neutral minion that goes into essentially every deck capable of buffing the guy. Handbuff Pally plays it in Wild and even +1/+1 on the guy turns it into Consecration that leaves a body behind. But usually it's more of a Flamestrike for 4 mana...with a body afterwards.

    Between this and Animated Broomstick, they devs are essentially starting to turn minions into removal spells with an upside, to the point where if you just play an honest dude with some stats on the board, you're left standing there like an idiot when your opponent Battlecries and Rushes your board into oblivion. Instead of these abilities coming at a premium, they're being slapped onto already decent minions that are just asking to be broken.

    It's good that abomination of a card Gibberling is getting its overdue nerf, but there's still plenty left they've released since Scholomance that's out of line.

  • Druids and Priests are Getting Nerfed! Blizzard Announces Card Nerfs for Gibberling, Apotheosis, and Renew

    Can't believe you are getting downvoted for this. I also immediately thought of Reddit. I wonder how they got it?

  • Ride And Die - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

    Feedback time:

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    Cheese - I think I like Peculiar Pilots the most. Summoning a random Legendary is a huge variance and not really tied to the Warrior, while the other two are simply okay. Peculiar Pilots plays into Mech Hunter, while also being a sort-of callback to Piloted Shredder.

    Lundy - I prefer the Hawkstrider. I don't like the art on the Mechanostrider, and it just feels bland. Conversely, the art for the Hawkstrider cards are perfect and Spell Damage adds a different dimension. The only thing you're missing is a watermark on the Strider minion.

    Nirast - I mentioned it in Discord, but you should replace the Big Crab art so they're not the same and make it a Hunter minion.

    anchorm4n - I believe you submitted already, but at any rate I'd say you're good to go with Take Possession.

    Demonxz95 - That art is much better.

    AeroJulwin - Hello! Welcome to OutofCards, and to our side of things :D For being new to this, you did a pretty good job overall; I like it a lot. A few things to consider: the watermark on the Kodo Mount card is for Classic/Legacy, so that should be changed, and the art for the Kodos is already being used by Stampeding Kodo and Thickhide Kodo, so those should be swapped out as well. Beyond that, I think you're good to go!

    R - Imitation is weird: I think I know what you mean by "this minion", but I shouldn't have to guess or puzzle it out. System Update is a bit heavy-handed, so by the process of elimination I would say go with Ancient Spirit: it may be simple, but it's still a very effective card for Token Druid. It might have to cost 1, given it buffs, summons a body, and is Nature for Guff Runetotem.

    Wailor - Cycle of Life is a cool card, but it should probably not be a K&C card. Recruit has a connotation that doesn't connect with the flavor of the card itself.

    Arkasaur - I like it; not much to add, really, 'cause it seems ready to submit.

    BloodMefist - I like Silver Hand Recruits more than the Adventurers, but the Adventurers appear to be the Flavor of the Month so maybe go with them? Hard to say. The SHR version is definitely the more "dangerous" one, given how much synergy exists for them.

    Hordaki - I think you mean Menagerie Warrior :P I like the card, and its intended use-case; N'Zoth, God of the Deep is a favorite of mine. That being said, it doesn't seem like giving a minion all-types is really that effective, as we lack cards like Houndmaster or Fire Breather in Warrior. Ringmaster's Baton and Ringmaster Whatley exist, but the minion you're buffing won't benefit from including those in your deck.

  • Hearthstone's Developers Reveal the Top 5 Performing Deck Archetypes From the Top 1% of Players

    I heard it's around 4000-5000 Legend, which, if you've ever been there, doesn't really feel that different from Diamond 5 anyways.