I absolutely LOVED the dual-class cards. It brought me back to the days of playing MTG with the Invasion cycle where cards like Fire/Ice were VERY prevalent for years and years. I hope they make this a recurring theme.
Your POV on card design being the real problem sounds like it underestimates the importance of the surrounding class. While there's a handful of dangerous cards that would play out pretty much the same in any class (e.g. Puzzle Box), most of them are a product of the class they are in. Put Il'gynoth in warrior and he's useless, for example.
Importantly, that goes both ways and there are a lot of cards that are in the 'wrong' class, and kept fair because of it. Had Moorabi been in mage, Anub'arak been in warrior, or Animated Armor been in rogue they would certainly be remembered as more powerful cards. Perhaps these examples would still be OK, but you can bet a lot of weak cards become busted.
I think that's part of the trouble with the whole concept: it is its own worst enemy because the very things that get people excited by it are the very things that end up ruining it. In a sense that always happens, which brings it back to your point, but at least the weaknesses of individual classes open up design space for exciting cards that dual-classes shut off.
I think this is where I ended up the last time I discussed the idea of a dual-class game mode with someone: that the effective removal of class weaknesses is a fundamental failure of the game mode. It is also something that cannot really be solved by banning cards, because a class' strengths usually manifest over many cards. You are not going to ban all priest healing in the priest/rogue pair, for example.
Can all this be sorted out? Yes, but it is a massive task that would probably benefit from a full reboot to make the whole game like that, so the devs aren't split between the two vastly different design spaces of mono- and dual-class HS.
Honestly Dual-class would be an amazing idea for a mode, and I honestly think that LoR's dual-region mechanic is one of its strongest features. In terms of balance, I think that they could either just ban neutrals in dual-class (that would remove most of the OP combos) or they could have a ban list of cards that can't be played in dual-class. For example, sorceror's apprentice is balanceable in normal HS (even though it's very strong) but in Dual-class it might need to be banned. I think this would be that best solution because it allows them to print cards that don't work in dual-class while keeping the dual-class mode fair.
Tour Guide could possibly fit! It is pretty low impact on the board if you don't have a Darkglare tho but the card draw would be nice since we dump our hand quickly! I'm not sure what i'd replace though, maybe 1 Soulfire and 1 Expired Merchant? Could be worth testing!
Rather than being able to resurrect a dead minion again each time it after dies (like the normal graveyard proposal), I'd like each resurrection of a minion to be limited to one time. You play a minion, it dies, and a "ghost" goes into the graveyard. The ghost can be rezed from the graveyard, but is set free when it dies, rather than re-entering the graveyard. Some cards that currently copy minions/cards could also create ghosts rather than true copies if the ghost mechanic became a thing. Reborn cards could potentially be changed to summon a 1-health ghost rather than a 1-health copy.
Nowadays, they try to nerf cards in a way that doesn't make a whole deck feel worthless.
I still cannot forgive them what they did with Mecha'thun Warlock in Wild after nerfing Bloodbloom
Ehh, I wouldn't really call that an apt comparison. On one hand because Bloodbloom got nerfed because of the ridiculously stupid combo with Darkest Hour, Mecha'thun warlock was just unfortunate to get caught in the crossfire. On the other hand because Mecha'thun warlock as an archetype isn't dead, it has a different combo with Dollmaster Dorian that doesn't require all that much more setup. The reason why the deck is borderline unplayable is because the meta in wild has sped up with a ridiculous pace, and the deck cannot keep up.
I think a pretty easy graveyard UI would be the skulls beside both players' decks.
Make them clickable buttons that let you browse the graveyard (and change their look so they stand out more). The opponent's one is covered by the map sometimes, so maybe you can access both with just yours.
I don't know how they look on mobile, but using those skulls seems like a natural choice.
EDIT: Looking at every map, there's a lot where yours is hidden entirely. So maybe they can put it beside the mana towards your hero portrait or something. But that skull icon seems to make sense to use. It's been there since day 1.
I'm not clear on what permanently dual class would mean. Would that be every card printed in the future is dual class, or any deck can have cards from two different classes, and are the pairings fixed?
The latter sounds like a nightmare for balance. Maybe possibly it would work as an alternative mode, perhaps with a limited pool of cards.
I don't know if a graveyard would even need UI. It could just be another zone the game keeps track of, and resurrect cards interact with it, so the same minion can't be resurrected multiple times at once. I'd guess that would have major impacts on game balance.
I forgot there were historic snow cards. I go in and out of the MtG scene so I have chunks missing in my knowledge outside of standard. I remember picking up a snow covered land and trying to figure out what the heck was up with that before throwing it in a binder.
If they do Dual-class again, I hope they do the opposite. Just for variety's sake. Like, pair every class with ones that share no common themes, and see what you can do.
I wanna see earth elementals with glaives. I wanna see succubus paladins. What does a Warrior/Mage card look like? I would love to see some ridiculous things like that.
I strongly disagree. The only good tech is Hex/Devolve/Devolving Missiles, Polymorph in Standard; anything that spawns minion for your opponents is pretty poor.
The flavour of "adjacent" classes is excellent, and they really highlighted the common synergies between those classes.
I love dual classes cards in general, especially that feeling when you open a powerful legendary that is potentially usable in two decks!
I wished for and got Ras as my first one: whilst it was never a top meta card, it is very powerful and I had a lot of fun playing with it in both Mage and Shaman!
Agreed there. I like how they took a moment to try and think how logically each class fit between other classes. Like Demon Hunter shares legendaries with Warlocks (Demons) and Hunters (Hunters) i.e. Demon Hunter. Paladin shares legendaries with Priests (holy) and warriors (uh...warrior). Paladin= Holy Warrior.
I hope dual class cards stay around permanently like Discover has because 1) it will go a long way towards creating interesting deck archetypes and 2) allows people to use fun and powerful cards in 2 classes, instead of 1.
I agree under those circumstances. Shadowform was a problem due to velen and smite. Without velen and smite being able to go face, shadowform is much more tame and honestly should never have been HoF'd.
I get why they did it (re-vamping the class identity allowed them the chance to hall of fame cards that didn't align with their vision), and will allow them to print a shadowform-esque card in a future expansion.
As they stated, the idea behind expansions is sometimes to explore the strengths of a class, or shore up their weakness. But only for a time. By keeping specific strategies in an expansion, they define a limited length of time that the class can utilize that archtype. Shadowform being part of classic did create a design space problem of always having an alternate hero power. Also, I imagine that with shadowform in the current darkmoon faire set, being able to discount shadowform through multiple means would allow priests to tempo themselves well. One of the shortcomings of shadowform was that it was a "3 mana: do nothing".
I'll be excited to see what the mini-set brings, as well as what the "big changes" the new standard year brings as well.
Maybe for standard, but a lot of older formats have already been running a lot of snow cards, so it wouldn't surprise me if Kaldheim surprises us with a few good ones. Not to mention there really isn't much of a downside for running snow lands, besides a few cards that hose them. The mechanic as a whole is much less rigid than something like Party is.
Game Developer, Dean Ayala on Dual-Class Cards in Hearthstone - "Good Chance We'll Revisit Dual-Class"
I absolutely LOVED the dual-class cards. It brought me back to the days of playing MTG with the Invasion cycle where cards like Fire/Ice were VERY prevalent for years and years. I hope they make this a recurring theme.
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
That's right! Now I remember
Game Developer, Dean Ayala on Dual-Class Cards in Hearthstone - "Good Chance We'll Revisit Dual-Class"
Your POV on card design being the real problem sounds like it underestimates the importance of the surrounding class. While there's a handful of dangerous cards that would play out pretty much the same in any class (e.g. Puzzle Box), most of them are a product of the class they are in. Put Il'gynoth in warrior and he's useless, for example.
Importantly, that goes both ways and there are a lot of cards that are in the 'wrong' class, and kept fair because of it. Had Moorabi been in mage, Anub'arak been in warrior, or Animated Armor been in rogue they would certainly be remembered as more powerful cards. Perhaps these examples would still be OK, but you can bet a lot of weak cards become busted.
I think that's part of the trouble with the whole concept: it is its own worst enemy because the very things that get people excited by it are the very things that end up ruining it. In a sense that always happens, which brings it back to your point, but at least the weaknesses of individual classes open up design space for exciting cards that dual-classes shut off.
I think this is where I ended up the last time I discussed the idea of a dual-class game mode with someone: that the effective removal of class weaknesses is a fundamental failure of the game mode. It is also something that cannot really be solved by banning cards, because a class' strengths usually manifest over many cards. You are not going to ban all priest healing in the priest/rogue pair, for example.
Can all this be sorted out? Yes, but it is a massive task that would probably benefit from a full reboot to make the whole game like that, so the devs aren't split between the two vastly different design spaces of mono- and dual-class HS.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Nice! Really good and hard riddle, and the battlegrounds part was a really nice addition.
I forgot the part of "none of them are in standard", I just thought the first 3 leading to the final answer weren't.
It makes much more sense the way you thought it.
Here I go:
Let's go, let's go! There's little time!
We must reach it before it's too late
Oh no, oh no, it's still not done
And the deck approaches its end.
I've played all my cards, and at last we have it in hand
But now I'll die anyways...
What did I have in mind when I put in my deck
That murloc from the Hall of Fame...
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
You can do better than that. I know there is good in you.
Also, Flux created the Cliffs Notes version so we can get the gist anyway. So thank you Flux (and Cliff, you always have such good notes).
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
I like that idea! What's the point of them anyway?
My entire collection was deleted!
Yes, account is tied to your email address you log into the bnet client, but on one account, you can play on 3 different regions (US, EU, Asia).
You change the region via the "globe" icon.
So maybe you have the wrong region selected, when you start the game.
Game Developer, Dean Ayala on Dual-Class Cards in Hearthstone - "Good Chance We'll Revisit Dual-Class"
Honestly Dual-class would be an amazing idea for a mode, and I honestly think that LoR's dual-region mechanic is one of its strongest features. In terms of balance, I think that they could either just ban neutrals in dual-class (that would remove most of the OP combos) or they could have a ban list of cards that can't be played in dual-class. For example, sorceror's apprentice is balanceable in normal HS (even though it's very strong) but in Dual-class it might need to be banned. I think this would be that best solution because it allows them to print cards that don't work in dual-class while keeping the dual-class mode fair.
Gandling Zoolock!
Tour Guide could possibly fit! It is pretty low impact on the board if you don't have a Darkglare tho but the card draw would be nice since we dump our hand quickly! I'm not sure what i'd replace though, maybe 1 Soulfire and 1 Expired Merchant? Could be worth testing!
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
Rather than being able to resurrect a dead minion again each time it after dies (like the normal graveyard proposal), I'd like each resurrection of a minion to be limited to one time. You play a minion, it dies, and a "ghost" goes into the graveyard. The ghost can be rezed from the graveyard, but is set free when it dies, rather than re-entering the graveyard. Some cards that currently copy minions/cards could also create ghosts rather than true copies if the ghost mechanic became a thing. Reborn cards could potentially be changed to summon a 1-health ghost rather than a 1-health copy.
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
Ehh, I wouldn't really call that an apt comparison. On one hand because Bloodbloom got nerfed because of the ridiculously stupid combo with Darkest Hour, Mecha'thun warlock was just unfortunate to get caught in the crossfire. On the other hand because Mecha'thun warlock as an archetype isn't dead, it has a different combo with Dollmaster Dorian that doesn't require all that much more setup. The reason why the deck is borderline unplayable is because the meta in wild has sped up with a ridiculous pace, and the deck cannot keep up.
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
I think a pretty easy graveyard UI would be the skulls beside both players' decks.
Make them clickable buttons that let you browse the graveyard (and change their look so they stand out more). The opponent's one is covered by the map sometimes, so maybe you can access both with just yours.
I don't know how they look on mobile, but using those skulls seems like a natural choice.
EDIT: Looking at every map, there's a lot where yours is hidden entirely. So maybe they can put it beside the mana towards your hero portrait or something. But that skull icon seems to make sense to use. It's been there since day 1.
Game Developer, Dean Ayala on Dual-Class Cards in Hearthstone - "Good Chance We'll Revisit Dual-Class"
I'm not clear on what permanently dual class would mean. Would that be every card printed in the future is dual class, or any deck can have cards from two different classes, and are the pairings fixed?
The latter sounds like a nightmare for balance. Maybe possibly it would work as an alternative mode, perhaps with a limited pool of cards.
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
I don't know if a graveyard would even need UI. It could just be another zone the game keeps track of, and resurrect cards interact with it, so the same minion can't be resurrected multiple times at once. I'd guess that would have major impacts on game balance.
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
I still cannot forgive them what they did with Mecha'thun Warlock in Wild after nerfing Bloodbloom
The Weekend of Kaldheim Card Spoilers for January 9 & 10
I forgot there were historic snow cards. I go in and out of the MtG scene so I have chunks missing in my knowledge outside of standard. I remember picking up a snow covered land and trying to figure out what the heck was up with that before throwing it in a binder.
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
big priest in wild is at a state where polying their minions only works a few times as most often that wont hinder their bigger plays
Game Developer, Dean Ayala on Dual-Class Cards in Hearthstone - "Good Chance We'll Revisit Dual-Class"
If they do Dual-class again, I hope they do the opposite. Just for variety's sake. Like, pair every class with ones that share no common themes, and see what you can do.
I wanna see earth elementals with glaives. I wanna see succubus paladins. What does a Warrior/Mage card look like? I would love to see some ridiculous things like that.
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
u should work for them. nerfing ETC without touching the card. ppl get 40 dust back instead of 1600
Brilliant...Brilliant
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
I know there's a good chance you're just joking around, but in all seriousness, they almost certainly have it finalized by this point.
Hearthstone's Dean Ayala Answers Community Questions - The Full Recap
I strongly disagree. The only good tech is Hex/Devolve/Devolving Missiles, Polymorph in Standard; anything that spawns minion for your opponents is pretty poor.
Hearthstone's Shadow Priest Is Returning! A Different Direction for the Community Favourite
They're also changing HOF, tho. So who knows what'll happen with Velen and Auchenai Soulpriest
Game Developer, Dean Ayala on Dual-Class Cards in Hearthstone - "Good Chance We'll Revisit Dual-Class"
Agreed there. I like how they took a moment to try and think how logically each class fit between other classes. Like Demon Hunter shares legendaries with Warlocks (Demons) and Hunters (Hunters) i.e. Demon Hunter. Paladin shares legendaries with Priests (holy) and warriors (uh...warrior). Paladin= Holy Warrior.
I hope dual class cards stay around permanently like Discover has because 1) it will go a long way towards creating interesting deck archetypes and 2) allows people to use fun and powerful cards in 2 classes, instead of 1.
Hearthstone's Shadow Priest Is Returning! A Different Direction for the Community Favourite
I agree under those circumstances. Shadowform was a problem due to velen and smite. Without velen and smite being able to go face, shadowform is much more tame and honestly should never have been HoF'd.
I get why they did it (re-vamping the class identity allowed them the chance to hall of fame cards that didn't align with their vision), and will allow them to print a shadowform-esque card in a future expansion.
As they stated, the idea behind expansions is sometimes to explore the strengths of a class, or shore up their weakness. But only for a time. By keeping specific strategies in an expansion, they define a limited length of time that the class can utilize that archtype. Shadowform being part of classic did create a design space problem of always having an alternate hero power. Also, I imagine that with shadowform in the current darkmoon faire set, being able to discount shadowform through multiple means would allow priests to tempo themselves well. One of the shortcomings of shadowform was that it was a "3 mana: do nothing".
I'll be excited to see what the mini-set brings, as well as what the "big changes" the new standard year brings as well.
The Weekend of Kaldheim Card Spoilers for January 9 & 10
Maybe for standard, but a lot of older formats have already been running a lot of snow cards, so it wouldn't surprise me if Kaldheim surprises us with a few good ones. Not to mention there really isn't much of a downside for running snow lands, besides a few cards that hose them. The mechanic as a whole is much less rigid than something like Party is.