Deathspeaker + Tiller + Hysteria Combo...

Coming across a lot of this deck in wild ranked right now, and it seems a little too strong.

The problem card is Deathspeaker, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of nerf soon.

I think that Deathspeaker is not a fixable card if they want the other cards to still exist.

None of the involved cards are a problem. The problem is the code. If the minion with Hysteria has attacked all other minions and is still alive it should stop even there are still some minions left. It's coded that one minion is picked before every attack rather then putting all minions on board into a queue in random order. So the exit condition is currently (Hysteria minion is dead or no minion on board). It should be (queue is emoty) imho.

Quote From aposteljoe

None of the involved cards are a problem. The problem is the code. If the minion with Hysteria has attacked all other minions and is still alive it should stop even there are still some minions left. It's coded that one minion is picked before every attack rather then putting all minions on board into a queue in random order. So the exit condition is currently (Hysteria minion is dead or no minion on board). It should be (queue is emoty) imho.

That's not a coding issue, since that's exactly what the card says it will do: keep attacking until it dies. However, changing Hysteria to work like Deathwing, Mad Aspect so it attacks everything once (unless it dies midway) would be an elegant solution without upsetting anyone since that's what we would have all expected it to do to begin with.

The deck is definitely powerful. I have had an abysmal win rate this past season, but so far I have a 100% winrate with this deck. It is probably the most consistent OTK I have ever seen needing only 3 cards and 7 mana. It may be even more consistent then the old Star Aligner Druid.

They will probably either nerf Wretched Tiller to change the trigger or effect slightly so that he doesn't deal 2 damage to the enemy hero on every attack. Or they will change Hysteria to only attack a set number of times.

Hysteria seems like the cleanest and easiest change, but they may change the Tiller just to keep the new cards unchanged.

Just change Hysteria that it only can be cast on enemy minions.

Quote From Maurice

Just change Hysteria that it only can be cast on enemy minions.

No.  The combo (in wild) also includes Shrinkmeister to change the tiller's attack to 0 so it attacks infinitely without killing anything.  The problem here is clearly the immunity mechanic!

I was not aware of this combo. Seems pretty ridiculous to me

Quote From NegativeNemsy

Quote From Maurice

Just change Hysteria that it only can be cast on enemy minions.

No.  The combo (in wild) also includes Shrinkmeister to change the tiller's attack to 0 so it attacks infinitely without killing anything.  The problem here is clearly the immunity mechanic!

But then the combo needs one piece and 2 mana more. Maybe this is enough so the deck is not viable enough anymore but still "playable". And nice side effect: Another op control spell got a bit nerfed.

they wouldnt touch Hysteria cause its a standard card. wild is the issue here. and btw warlock pulls this combo off way more easily and consistent. 2 deathspearkers and the tiller is enough.  60 dmg. if u face some high armour deck just play both tillers speakers and hysteria for 120 dmg. emperor reduces the cost and the way warlock draws is fast enough i was able to defeat a 80 armour druid by turn 10. I had only 3 cards in the deck so u can see how fast the deck can draw and consistently pull the combo.

plus the issue with ice block, it procs the secret and the animation take so long that it skips their turn and u just win by going face next turn with tiller since he doesnt even need to connect face any other disruptive secret like vaporize or flame ward isnt enough. they can be at 2 health and thats enough.

at least fix the animation so the deck can actually lose to ice block

Quote From Marega

they wouldnt touch Hysteria cause its a standard card.

Nuff said.

Quote From Maurice

Quote From Marega

they wouldnt touch Hysteria cause its a standard card.

Nuff said.

u kidding right? they touched a standard card in this case darkglare cause it was already plaguing standard too. get your shit together. they nerfed reckless experimenter before the snipsnap launched but left it allowed in wild for some time.

if they touch any of the cards in the combo it wont be hysteria cause its a standard card and they want it to work like that..only thing they can do to it is  not being able for minions with immune to be targeted, but thats not touching hysteria thats just altering the overall mechanic of immune.

ez fix would be to make tiller hex proof aka "cant be targeted by spells or hero powers"

Wretched Tiller is the real problem and I guess that it should receive two changes, a buff and a nerf:

1. Make Wretched Tiller venomous;

2. Change text to "Whenever this minion DEALS DAMAGE, deals 2 damage to the enemy hero.

No more infinite shrinkmeistered attacks because Tilller will have to damage and, consequently, kill whatever it touches and even a full board won't be enough for OTK from full health because it will be able to deal "just" 26 damage and the eventual extra attacks to tokens summoned from deathrattles, triggered secrets etc., but the combo would be less opressive.

Quote From Marega

Quote From Maurice

 

u kidding right? they touched a standard card in this case darkglare cause it was already plaguing standard too. get your shit together. they nerfed reckless experimenter before the snipsnap launched but left it allowed in wild for some time.

if they touch any of the cards in the combo it wont be hysteria cause its a standard card and they want it to work like that..only thing they can do to it is  not being able for minions with immune to be targeted, but thats not touching hysteria thats just altering the overall mechanic of immune.

ez fix would be to make tiller hex proof aka "cant be targeted by spells or hero powers"

Imagine coming in with an attitude like that and being flatout wrong. Darkglare decks in standard barely had a 50% winrate at legend when the card got nerfed. 

The problem I see with nerfing Wretched Tiller is that, even though it is the only card that sees no use outside of the combo, it wouldn't fix the fact that blizzard now has to balance any minion with a when this attacks trigger around the fact it can trigger 30 times.

I think that they have to nerf one of the other pieces, and I think making Hysteria work like Deathwing, Mad Aspect is the one that seems fairest.

The best way to handle this is as some others have stated; just change it so it only attack each minion once, like how Deathwing, Mad Aspect is handled.

You can still have your tiller combo, its just that the conditions have gotten a hell lot bigger, and its no longer possible to OTK from 30 anymore without two hysterias and mana reduction.

Either way, I expect team5 to sleep on this for like a few months before getting out the nerf bat. They've said it before, wild isn't on the radar like standard is. If I'm not mistaken it took a hell lot of time before the SN1P-SN4P combo was nerfed too.

Quote From sinti

Quote From dapperdog

The best way to handle this is as some others have stated; just change it so it only attack each minion once, like how Deathwing, Mad Aspect is handled.

I think this is a horrible idea, it only works for DW because it is a friggin 12/12, you would need a big minion for Hysteria to clear anything. With this change, it would probably end up being something along the lines of Betrayal power level, which i guess is whatever, but still.

Its more balanced this way anyway. Its already going to full clear the board in most cases, so having a small chink for others to play around would be ideal. Let's not forget that played correctly, this is often just going to be a 3 mana clear the board, and that's pretty insane considering that most 3 mana clears only do 2 damage.

Betrayal is bad not because of its effect, but because it guarantees to leaves something on board, and rogues have no need of it. Hysteria, even with the proposed change, would be leaps and bounds over it in just about any scenario.

Quote From KarinaAllison

Quote From Marega

they wouldnt touch Hysteria cause its a standard card. wild is the issue here. and btw warlock pulls this combo off way more easily and consistent. 2 deathspearkers and the tiller is enough.  60 seconds dmg. if u face some high armour deck just play both tillers speakers and hysteria for 120 dmg. emperor reduces the cost and the way warlock draws is fast enough i was able to defeat a 80 armour druid by turn 10 . I had only 3 cards in the deck so u can see how fast the deck can draw and consistently pull the combo.

One year ago drawing the whole deck by turn 10 was a Wild thing, now it is done by multiple classes as a game plan in standard. Powercreep is very, very real.