I've been wondering: Does Vaults of Helia NOT kill your unit if there's nothing appropriate to draw? I assume that's what you mean by "kill the chain."
It only kills your unit if there is a N+1 unit in your deck. If there is nothing for it to replace the most expensive unit, it can "skip" if say your 2nd most expensive unit on board has an eligible target.
Also: if there are 2 Vaults of Helia out simultaneously, each will proc sequentially so you essentially get +2.
EDIT: apparently it can skip! I was basing my earlier statement on a game where my opponent must not have had any eligible targets left in his deck.
Hey, anything that gets Mages off the meta is a win for me. Yeah, the Evocation nerfs may just kill the deck and make it “fair” rather than the batshit RNG madhouse it is right now. I swear, everytime I play Wandmaker or Cobalt I always get an Evocation. Good riddance to that and no more turn 5 Mana Giants.
I think Team 5 is waiting to do any Classic/Basic changes until the evergreen set overhaul that's occurring with the next rotation. I imagine that Sorcerer's Apprentice will be addressed then and any nerfs before then will only be to expansion cards.
The problem with Hunter isn't that there's any egregious card that is to "blame" but the simple fact that they have had hardly any nerfs. They aren't a top dog in terms of their meta viability, but at the same time they are never bottom rung either.
What this ends up doing is making face hunter the quintessential 'fall back' option for people climbing ladder. (along with any other flavor of the month decks).
Whether a class is bad, cancerous, or problematic isn't and shouldn't be defined by whether they have had nerfs within any time frame. That they haven't really been viable on the top end is the reason why their cards have stayed unnerfed.
Face hunter isn't truly a fall back option for climbing, since soul dhunter is a better deck overall, and plays more or less the same game as face hunter does, at the same speed. Its only popular at the moment because its a cheap and easy deck. The further up the rankings go, the less popular hunter becomes, because higher ranked players are more skilled and the price is no longer a factor.
Aggro gets a bad press since it has a reputation to be as you would call it, 'vomit' decks, but its actually more complex than it seems. In most cases they actually need to understand their matches since they are inherently playing low curve cards, and you don't need AoE to beat them, just enough tempo to outlast their low, but consistent, value.
I would agree that hp in hearthstone has some problems, but a bigger problem in my opinion is how team5 is framing each class to archetypes, so hunter's propensity towards smorc is enforced by the kind of cards it gets. But that is, as you say, a topic for another time.
I love playing Mage. It has been one of my staple classes since I played WoW. I'm SHOCKED that they went the route of Solarian Prime and Evocation instead of [Hearthstone Card (Sorcerer's Apprentice) Not Found]. That is the card that allowed cards like Evocation to be so abused and has been crucial to Exodia Mage builds. I'm not sure what they could do to that card to nerf it without totally killing it like they did with Mana Wyrm, but if Blizzard is trying to manage the source of the problem and not the symptom, then they kinda missed it with this one IMHO.
Trapdoorspyder - As mentioned, you could reduce the cost (probably to 3), or increase to stats (probably 4/6).
A good technique I have for art (and how I found the art for Blood in the Water for last weeks competition) is to use http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/ and then use the google image search on those to try and find the high quality version of the card art.
Another that I really like is Artstation.com, (search warcraft, hearthstone, or hearthstone fan art) I recall seeing a "botany student" art there recently that could fit your card quite well.
Before I reply more in depth. Are you saying that the RNG from cyclone mages in standard is "more acceptable" then the RNG from highlander mages?
I enjoy playing mage right now because it's just that RNG. It's why Casino Mage got it's nickname back in the day. Yes, there's a high level of RNG, but the variance hurts mage players just as often as it helps. Because you tend to remember the times you lost to those multiple discovered Primes, doesn't mean that the mage didn't go on to lose 3 times after that cause their YoggBox cast 4 draw spells and burned and fatigued them.
The issue with Hunter is indeed that it simply has to many good cards, I would suggest nerfing a few of its cards slightly. And yes I would suggest a slight nerf to those last 3 cards preferably removing 1 health from them. As for another card I would nerf the 2 mana 1/3 draw engine to a 3 mana card
The problem with Hunter isn't that there's any egregious card that is to "blame" but the simple fact that they have had hardly any nerfs. They aren't a top dog in terms of their meta viability, but at the same time they are never bottom rung either.
What this ends up doing is making face hunter the quintessential 'fall back' option for people climbing ladder. (along with any other flavor of the month decks).
The problem there is that while the deck is counterable, it's fast game times coupled with it's smorc mentality creates a high meta presence that warps the ability for other decks to flourish.
On top of that, Hearthstone ends up being too favorable towards aggro decks due to the way the game is inherently designed (only specific taunt units can act as blockers, but the opponent gets to choose).
In a nutshell I've never been a huge fan of "vomit decks". Zoolock, Face hunter, even Demon Hunter either prey on the low statistical variance that you'll get the cards you need: (In the case of zoolock it's always been...did you draw aoe? Congrats you win. If not, you lose. Same thing with face hunter and demon hunter....Did you draw healing and/or aoe? congrats you win, if not. You lose)
Those aforementioned scenarios occur because hearthstone has very few tutor cards, and don't allow more control over how you survive games. Overall for me personally it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth whenever I have attempted to play aggro decks. (like, this is cheap...why am I playing this?)
Fundamentally the big problem is the class hero powers that force archetypes. But that's a topic for another time.
The right cards were targeted. Now we shouldn't be seeing 5 evocations or primes per game, but 9 mana for solarian might hit too hard and reduce the playability of the card significantly.
Probably better to suggest some changes while you're at it.
I don't like face hunter from DoD, but the one we have right now is what I would call 'fair', since its not all in, and taunts do quite a good job against them.
That leaves highlander and dragon hunter, both not really that big on ranked right now. So what is there to nerf? Eaglehorn Bow, Dwarven Sharpshooter, Phase Stalker, Dragonbane? none of those are in my opinion remotely unfair compared to what other classes can do.
Besides which, hunters have been nerfed before. Scavenger's Ingenuity from the previous expansion, and leeroy getting HoF which practically destroyed quest hunter in standard.
I'm actually happy that Wandmaker and Cobalt Spellkin won't be producing Evocation. there's been too many times I needed another spell and they just make evocation after evocation.
like c'mon I needed frost bolt or mirror shield or whatever it's called
adding a twitch drop with the announcement stream is a nice touch, nothing like a free pack to open after the thing you were going to have in the background at work anyway
Its a small nerf, probably lower its winrate by a small margin, but hardly deck destroying. Evocation not being able to be generated by Cobalt Spellkin and Wandmaker is probably something that should've been thought out from the start. It can still be discovered from Magic Trick though, but the higher cost means you can't just go turn 4 apprentice into evocation, vomit all those spells into Mana Cyclone.
As for Solarian Prime nerf, well, this really doesn't do anything other than stop turn 7 bs so its more susceptible to face decks, and would probably lower its win rate to midrange decks. It was coming though, and mage mains ought to count themselves lucky that the nerf wasn't to solarian itself, and an unexpected Potion of Illusion will still allow you to play that 1 mana prime on the same turn. I'm not really into this nerf, to be honest. Would've been better for team5 to simply expand the spell-damage minion pool, increase the cost of Primordial Studies, or simply remove spell damage from Astromancer Solarian, so we're not facing a game with 2-3 solarian primes at minimum.
The main winners of this nerf is probably priest and paladin. But rogue may make a comeback, and there might yet be a place for warlock to shine too, since mage bs is probably too backbreaking for any midrange warlock to catch up with.
Libram paladin bugs me the most right now but I sure won't say no to that coming Evocation change. It feels like every rogue I play against discovers it when they combo Wand Thief.
Just yesterday I had a game I would win when opponent cast Solarian which cast YoggBox which cast another Yoggbox. Not a great feeling to lose just because of RNG
Yogg Box Cannot cast another Yogg Box, Solarian just casted Yogg Box twice
Can we please nerf Hunter for a change aswell?????????? Like I get that these changes are good, but FFS hunter has been getting the pass for almost 2 years now. This has become stupid.
Dean Asks: Which Warcraft Setting or Expansion Theme Do You Want in Hearthstone?
Maybe pre-historic Azeroth, with protodrake dragon aspects and titans, stone dwarfs and trogs.
Iron horde theme? With that alternate universe Draenor
Or maybe classic alliance vs horde, with tri class cards
Darkmoon faire (because if the next one isn't then its never going to be)
Dean Asks: Which Warcraft Setting or Expansion Theme Do You Want in Hearthstone?
The Burning Legion with Sargeras, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde!
Experimenting with Legends of Runeterra's New Lab, "A Landmark Occasion"
It only kills your unit if there is a N+1 unit in your deck. If there is nothing for it to replace the most expensive unit, it can "skip" if say your 2nd most expensive unit on board has an eligible target.
Also: if there are 2 Vaults of Helia out simultaneously, each will proc sequentially so you essentially get +2.
EDIT: apparently it can skip! I was basing my earlier statement on a game where my opponent must not have had any eligible targets left in his deck.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
Hey, anything that gets Mages off the meta is a win for me. Yeah, the Evocation nerfs may just kill the deck and make it “fair” rather than the batshit RNG madhouse it is right now. I swear, everytime I play Wandmaker or Cobalt I always get an Evocation. Good riddance to that and no more turn 5 Mana Giants.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Very close, but not quite.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
I think Team 5 is waiting to do any Classic/Basic changes until the evergreen set overhaul that's occurring with the next rotation. I imagine that Sorcerer's Apprentice will be addressed then and any nerfs before then will only be to expansion cards.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
Whether a class is bad, cancerous, or problematic isn't and shouldn't be defined by whether they have had nerfs within any time frame. That they haven't really been viable on the top end is the reason why their cards have stayed unnerfed.
Face hunter isn't truly a fall back option for climbing, since soul dhunter is a better deck overall, and plays more or less the same game as face hunter does, at the same speed. Its only popular at the moment because its a cheap and easy deck. The further up the rankings go, the less popular hunter becomes, because higher ranked players are more skilled and the price is no longer a factor.
Aggro gets a bad press since it has a reputation to be as you would call it, 'vomit' decks, but its actually more complex than it seems. In most cases they actually need to understand their matches since they are inherently playing low curve cards, and you don't need AoE to beat them, just enough tempo to outlast their low, but consistent, value.
I would agree that hp in hearthstone has some problems, but a bigger problem in my opinion is how team5 is framing each class to archetypes, so hunter's propensity towards smorc is enforced by the kind of cards it gets. But that is, as you say, a topic for another time.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
I love playing Mage. It has been one of my staple classes since I played WoW. I'm SHOCKED that they went the route of Solarian Prime and Evocation instead of [Hearthstone Card (Sorcerer's Apprentice) Not Found]. That is the card that allowed cards like Evocation to be so abused and has been crucial to Exodia Mage builds. I'm not sure what they could do to that card to nerf it without totally killing it like they did with Mana Wyrm, but if Blizzard is trying to manage the source of the problem and not the symptom, then they kinda missed it with this one IMHO.
B-U-R-S-T - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Trapdoorspyder - As mentioned, you could reduce the cost (probably to 3), or increase to stats (probably 4/6).
A good technique I have for art (and how I found the art for Blood in the Water for last weeks competition) is to use http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/ and then use the google image search on those to try and find the high quality version of the card art.
Another that I really like is Artstation.com, (search warcraft, hearthstone, or hearthstone fan art) I recall seeing a "botany student" art there recently that could fit your card quite well.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
Before I reply more in depth. Are you saying that the RNG from cyclone mages in standard is "more acceptable" then the RNG from highlander mages?
I enjoy playing mage right now because it's just that RNG. It's why Casino Mage got it's nickname back in the day. Yes, there's a high level of RNG, but the variance hurts mage players just as often as it helps. Because you tend to remember the times you lost to those multiple discovered Primes, doesn't mean that the mage didn't go on to lose 3 times after that cause their YoggBox cast 4 draw spells and burned and fatigued them.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Mogu'shan Warden
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
The issue with Hunter is indeed that it simply has to many good cards, I would suggest nerfing a few of its cards slightly. And yes I would suggest a slight nerf to those last 3 cards preferably removing 1 health from them. As for another card I would nerf the 2 mana 1/3 draw engine to a 3 mana card
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
Frostbolt cost 2 by the way, you're probably looking at Ray of Frost
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
The problem with Hunter isn't that there's any egregious card that is to "blame" but the simple fact that they have had hardly any nerfs. They aren't a top dog in terms of their meta viability, but at the same time they are never bottom rung either.
What this ends up doing is making face hunter the quintessential 'fall back' option for people climbing ladder. (along with any other flavor of the month decks).
The problem there is that while the deck is counterable, it's fast game times coupled with it's smorc mentality creates a high meta presence that warps the ability for other decks to flourish.
On top of that, Hearthstone ends up being too favorable towards aggro decks due to the way the game is inherently designed (only specific taunt units can act as blockers, but the opponent gets to choose).
In a nutshell I've never been a huge fan of "vomit decks". Zoolock, Face hunter, even Demon Hunter either prey on the low statistical variance that you'll get the cards you need: (In the case of zoolock it's always been...did you draw aoe? Congrats you win. If not, you lose. Same thing with face hunter and demon hunter....Did you draw healing and/or aoe? congrats you win, if not. You lose)
Those aforementioned scenarios occur because hearthstone has very few tutor cards, and don't allow more control over how you survive games. Overall for me personally it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth whenever I have attempted to play aggro decks. (like, this is cheap...why am I playing this?)
Fundamentally the big problem is the class hero powers that force archetypes. But that's a topic for another time.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
The right cards were targeted. Now we shouldn't be seeing 5 evocations or primes per game, but 9 mana for solarian might hit too hard and reduce the playability of the card significantly.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
Probably better to suggest some changes while you're at it.
I don't like face hunter from DoD, but the one we have right now is what I would call 'fair', since its not all in, and taunts do quite a good job against them.
That leaves highlander and dragon hunter, both not really that big on ranked right now. So what is there to nerf? Eaglehorn Bow, Dwarven Sharpshooter, Phase Stalker, Dragonbane? none of those are in my opinion remotely unfair compared to what other classes can do.
Besides which, hunters have been nerfed before. Scavenger's Ingenuity from the previous expansion, and leeroy getting HoF which practically destroyed quest hunter in standard.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
I'm actually happy that Wandmaker and Cobalt Spellkin won't be producing Evocation. there's been too many times I needed another spell and they just make evocation after evocation.
like c'mon I needed frost bolt or mirror shield or whatever it's called
Darkmoon Faire? New Game Mode? The Hearthstone Fall Reveal Stream Begins on October 22
adding a twitch drop with the announcement stream is a nice touch, nothing like a free pack to open after the thing you were going to have in the background at work anyway
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
Its a small nerf, probably lower its winrate by a small margin, but hardly deck destroying. Evocation not being able to be generated by Cobalt Spellkin and Wandmaker is probably something that should've been thought out from the start. It can still be discovered from Magic Trick though, but the higher cost means you can't just go turn 4 apprentice into evocation, vomit all those spells into Mana Cyclone.
As for Solarian Prime nerf, well, this really doesn't do anything other than stop turn 7 bs so its more susceptible to face decks, and would probably lower its win rate to midrange decks. It was coming though, and mage mains ought to count themselves lucky that the nerf wasn't to solarian itself, and an unexpected Potion of Illusion will still allow you to play that 1 mana prime on the same turn. I'm not really into this nerf, to be honest. Would've been better for team5 to simply expand the spell-damage minion pool, increase the cost of Primordial Studies, or simply remove spell damage from Astromancer Solarian, so we're not facing a game with 2-3 solarian primes at minimum.
The main winners of this nerf is probably priest and paladin. But rogue may make a comeback, and there might yet be a place for warlock to shine too, since mage bs is probably too backbreaking for any midrange warlock to catch up with.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
I expect them to do something about Sorcerer's Apprentice with the classic rework. I at least hope lol
Darkmoon Faire? New Game Mode? The Hearthstone Fall Reveal Stream Begins on October 22
I think this is fine. It's better than just randomly starting the stream out of no where lol
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
Libram paladin bugs me the most right now but I sure won't say no to that coming Evocation change. It feels like every rogue I play against discovers it when they combo Wand Thief.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
Yogg Box Cannot cast another Yogg Box, Solarian just casted Yogg Box twice
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
Can we please nerf Hunter for a change aswell?????????? Like I get that these changes are good, but FFS hunter has been getting the pass for almost 2 years now. This has become stupid.
Hearthstone Mage Balance Patch Releasing Next Week Targets Nerfs on Solarian Prime and Evocation
I've been sitting on a hardly played golden Evocation since day 1 of Ashes. I'm going to miss you, big boy!