Just played a game of Thief Rogue against a Mech Hunter (which I had a terrible losing streak against). They made a big 9/8 mech with poisonous missiles to clear my board but I had the most ridiculous way to clear it. I'd played Halazzi, the Lynx the previous turn and had 5 Lynxes in hand due to hand space. Fortunately Hunting Party came through to supply the extra needed Lynxes perfectly even through hand size constraints.
You not agreeing with the argument doesn't make it not an argument. If you want to make *that* case you have to actually substantively address the argument and point out where it's fallacious. The devs have stated ad nauseam that their goal isn't just to keep the game balanced, but also "fresh" "fun" "not stale", etc. By most people's standards that excludes high levels of repetitiveness.
The degree to which T5 feels that the game needs to be fresh vs stale is not something we have inside knowledge of. If the goal was to make it so that wild never has major predictable or stale cards/plays you'd have to either be constantly nerfing past expansion class staples or introducing major power creep that makes the old powerful staples way less desirable compared to new cards. That is not realistic in the slightest.
Again I go back to my Bloodreaver Gul'Dan argument. Unless you're playing an extremely low curve zoolock build, heavily emphasizing low to midrange curved plays and not building for a late game back up plan then there is not a single warlock deck worth its weight that would ever not include the DK. Be it midrange, control, combo, or straight up OTK the DK will always be extremely good as it creates a pseudo-infinite removal system via the hero power, creates value out of thin air and empty boards, and completely strips the drawback of the warlock hero power/self-damaging theme away due to guaranteed healing each turn. And there are plenty more examples, although much less overblown than DKs, that emphasize that removing Genn/Baku for the sake of making the game fresh is laughable because there are already dozens of cards that are so good that they are not going away without being nerfed or deleted.
Just adding in what everyone else is saying: these inn-vitationals kill hype. But! I AM hyped on Blizzard recognizing and giving spotlight to the myriad content creators that aren't Kripp, Trump, Thijs, etc.
So Blizz, figure out some other promotional content, but keep introducing new creators pls!
Yeah, I definitely don't mean to suggest that I'm looking at this quest with the same eyes as I might have back in Un'Goro. This quest isn't intended to be the win condition of the deck. But the flip side of that is that because it's not the win condition, it's something that might not need to be in the deck at all.
"I imagine Priest developing a midrange archetype"
I agree that this belongs in a midrange Priest deck. I think the big question is, should this be the 30th card in that deck? It doesn't need a ton of work to build around it because it asks Priest to do what it naturally does, so that's a major plus, but it does cost you a card in your opening hand and it will drive some deck building choices that might weaken the deck overall.
"We don't know what the meta will be"
It's true that we don't know what the metagame will be, but we can be pretty sure that when a new expansion is released, the strongest decks in the early metagame will be either a) aggro decks, or b) decks that were already strong in the old metagame, because people will just swap a couple of cards and run them. This midrange Priest deck will be able to beat aggro decks, but I'm not convinced any midrange Priest deck needsActivate the Obelisk to achieve that. On the other hand, we can say with some certainty that this quest cannot overpower control decks without a major investment in self harm (because the control decks will just hold their minions back and make it harder for you to complete the quest in a timely manner.
Some thoughts regarding the deck:
I tried Ornery Tortoise in the early days of Rise of Shadows with a Token Heal Druid, and found that I often still had armor up from Crystallizer when it came down. That's not to say Priest would have the same issue, as Priest's hero power doesn't gain armor, but I think they clash a bit more than one might expect, and there may be other 3 drops (maybe Acolyte of Pain) instead.
I think you accidentally included an extra copy of Circle of Healing. Seems like something the deckbuilder shouldn't allow, but it has a "x3" next to it
Hench-Clan Shadequill is good as a means to an Inner Fire combo, but I think it's bad as a quest completion tool because it heals your opponent. You don't need to do that to complete the quest.
Lul didn't take that format to fail hard. Not like any of us saw it for the disaster that it was.
T5 there's good reason why many of the most popular streamers with the most views were so successful. They played a variety of decks instead of only hardcoring the single most played deck out there.
My favorite card from the set is Plague of Wrath. I like it the most because how much it helps certain Warrior archetypes in Wild.
It helps Dead Man's Hand a massive amount because now you can dump your brawls and don't get them stuck in your hand forever multiplying everytime you play a Dead Man's Hand.
The card has great synergy with Blood Razor wich may help other types of control warrior be viable besides the odd variant, it also may help Scourgelord Garrosh see play.
It is a great help in Odd Warrior against other control decks. Rightnow this variation of control warrior is very bad against priests and warlocks because of amount of removal you have is very little, so another boardclear is very helpful in these situations. Finally Odd Warrior may be now able to beat Big Priests with this, Brawl and Reckless Flurry.
And the most exciting part about this is the deckbuilding of new variations of odd warrior that makes this card work, because Odd Warrior right now doesn't run that many whirlwind effects to take addvantage of this card, I wonder how it will turn out.
This is why I really like Plague of Wrath, the amount of utility and impact it will make in the format is going to be very good for the Warrior class.
Keep in mind that restored health doesn't have to be to your hero. It could be to minions, or even the enemy hero (Hench-Clan Shadequill?). I'm imagining a deck that runs high health Reborn minions plus AoE heals like Divine Hymn, Neferset Ritualist, and Circle of Healing to complete the quest, since the hero power also has really good Reborn synergy.
My first thought was, "How can I force my opponent to summon bad things, like Bomb Squad?", but it's PLAY not summon, as someone else noted. Not sure how to abuse this, so I guess it's just another 5 mana 8/8.
It was the greatest mistake to make this odd/even mechanic for constructed format.
No, it's not. You have more bombs in wild than Odd/Even. Wild is called w i l d for a reason.
With your arguements Highlander decks are an mistake too, because they grant you strong cards for deck restriction and by that Genn and Baku restricts your deck even more, but they are fine just because they don't have immidiate value? Most of the Baku/Genn Decks aren't even played, only 3 Decks Evenshaman and Oddpaladin and occasionally Evenlock. This decks, because they have cards that synergise with their heropower and get sth. on board. So it's always a board fight vs those swarm decks. Every control deck can manage this.
I played 2-3 games this night two was against Evenshaman and one vs Combo/Shuddershaman on R4; and which matchup I hated more? Shudder, because it wasn't very interactive at all with their combo pieces on mass. It feels frustrating and feels like it has no weakness except fast decks. But I guess I just took the wrong deck, the weak Questwarrior with Odd package. Losing to Evenshaman on the other side wasn't frustrating at all, only one thing that i hated, buts just HS in general, he won the brawl with a full board and got his sea giant survived into t8 Lichking play. Same goes too Oddpally both are similiar, but i don't think their are unfair, because they actually need to fight for the board and that's what I like on HS, when decks fights for the board, while Freezemage or Shudderwock/Combo don't require a board.
But these decks also belongs to wild and have their weaknesses, so I don't demand nerfs to them, because they are frustrating to play against, but not oppressive at all compared other nerfed decks like Naga or old Questrogue, which I miss, because I liked to punish combo decks with it :(.
Highlander decks don't force you to play an archetype and also Highlander Archetype doesn't force designers to balance cards around those cards. Its restriction is simplier than odd/even. You don't gain anything for a game long for Highlander effects. It's just a card which you used once or bunch of times with bounce effects.
All of them Except Raza the ChainedSir Finley of the Sands have one time effect and Sir Finley's effect is just random so you can't build a deck around an upgraded hero power and Raza the Chained is already Genn Greymane for highlander decks which is more balanced version with all hero powers not just for basic one.
If we come to Genn Greymane and Baku the Mooneater, yes they were a mistake. It doesn't even comparable with Highlander archetype. Highlander archetype can also limit design space if there is a card which gains a start of game effect but it still wouldn't limit like Odd/Even mechanic. It doesn't bring balance issues with mana costs. It just limits deckbuilding not designing so that's why I'm calling Odd/even with Start of game mechanic was a mistake.
Think like that; if Baku the Mooneater was like "Start of Game: If your deck has no duplicates, Your hero power is upgraded.", Would it be same limiting like this ? In my opinion, It would be even more balanced but for deckbuilding. It wouldn't even limit design space.
Edit: Also; what i am saying is not a personal taste, it was a statement. Some people can enjoy more against combo, control, mid-range or aggro; Or someone can hate to play against combo, control, mid-range or aggro. This is a personal taste. I am stating a situation about designing cards and archetypes. So your feelings about Shudderwock Shaman and Even Shaman is just for you. That's a personal taste and feeling, not a situation. I was not about popularity or how much Odd/even decks in the ladder or how it feels to play with or/and against Odd/even decks. I was about a problem which limits designers and players both.
btw, I'm mostly playing wild and I don't really care decks in wild here in this discussion because when we discuss those, there comes feelings, tastes etc.
Reborn is looking pretty good. Sure, you can always clear a reborn minion with 1/1 tokens or something, but there are so many, and they're so sticky. I'm thinking we'll be running a lot of silences.
That's what I think about this quest. IMO, it's best suited for control decks, with taunts/high health minions, specially if they have deathrattle and/or reborn.
Almost, yeah. I remember that people was hyped about Dinomancy (crys in the corner) too for hunter, but this card never saw play aside from some few guys (1%?) of the community. May be it was just hunter, even hunter had more access to board-specific-decks. So it is possible that priest, who is a control class and don't had many good curve minions won't play this quest too, because it's not worth it.
But the chances are at least higher than with Hunter, because this hero power is more versatile, because you can still heal yourself or buff minions. Time will tell.
It was the greatest mistake to make this odd/even mechanic for constructed format.
No, it's not. You have more bombs in wild than Odd/Even. Wild is called w i l d for a reason.
With your arguements Highlander decks are an mistake too, because they grant you strong cards for deck restriction and by that Genn and Baku restricts your deck even more, but they are fine just because they don't have immidiate value? Most of the Baku/Genn Decks aren't even played, only 3 Decks Evenshaman and Oddpaladin and occasionally Evenlock. This decks, because they have cards that synergise with their heropower and get sth. on board. So it's always a board fight vs those swarm decks. Every control deck can manage this.
I played 2-3 games this night two was against Evenshaman and one vs Combo/Shuddershaman on R4; and which matchup I hated more? Shudder, because it wasn't very interactive at all with their combo pieces on mass. It feels frustrating and feels like it has no weakness except fast decks. But I guess I just took the wrong deck, the weak Questwarrior with Odd package. Losing to Evenshaman on the other side wasn't frustrating at all, only one thing that i hated, buts just HS in general, he won the brawl with a full board and got his sea giant survived into t8 Lichking play. Same goes too Oddpally both are similiar, but i don't think their are unfair, because they actually need to fight for the board and that's what I like on HS, when decks fights for the board, while Freezemage or Shudderwock/Combo don't require a board.
But these decks also belongs to wild and have their weaknesses, so I don't demand nerfs to them, because they are frustrating to play against, but not oppressive at all compared other nerfed decks like Naga or old Questrogue, which I miss, because I liked to punish combo decks with it :(.
I am spending 1 hour to make my decks, half an hour to play and 1 minute to delete thanks to all of the netdecks.
Is that possible to enjoy this game without a friend really ?
Even In-game friends are like hearthstone bots who plays only netdecks while we are dueling. This game's community is trash.
Any game's community is trash i guess. Whenever I play an online game, it feels like this.
People can't be geniune, original and unique even for a second. That's why I like Solo Adventures. Quests need to be completable in Solo Adventures too.
Fuck Twitch, Fuck streamers, fuck youtube; I really missed old times which all people tries to make his own strategy in games.
If you can't enjoy this game, it is not because you don't like cards or something about the game, it is because what you face and play against all the time. Same shit everyday and this is same with any other card game and any other online game.
Fucking humans. I guess I am a racist who hates its own kind.
I'd say you're raising a new argument there rather than actually addressing the point I was making and that my post already contains the rebuttal your argument: "if not necessarily to the same extent".
That's not a rebuttal, that's a claim, and one that I disagree with. The same logic does not apply at all. It could be argued that Big Priest is being addressed due to the extreme amount of critique towards it and the pressure the player base is putting on the developers regarding the deck. That is supported by that Blizzard has been hesitant to actually do anything about Big Priest so far, and seems to be stalling to see whether SoU might fix it with the murloc mass transform card, alternate tools for priest and other solutions.
I don't see how this contradicts anything I'm saying. I agree Big priest is seeing large amounts of criticism, are you arguing that Genn and Baku didn't prior to rotation? Or don't presently?
Supposing that the new BP hate cards like Curse of Murlocs "solve" the problem in wild, would you agree that Blizzard was pressured into printing those cards because of the public outcry against BP?
By the way I prefer it when balance/gameplay issues can be addressed by printing new cards rather than changing cards that already exist, I just don't see how you'd accomplish that with Genn and Baku without printing something that hard-counters hero powers, EG something that disables/replaces the enemy hero power. And I imagine people wouldn't be very fond of that either.
Big Priest has its own hate subreddit. Everything that is either high tier or annoying to play against receives hate, including Odd Paladin, but it doesn't come close to how much Big Priest is despised. I suppose the large amount of tech cards and other attempted solutions against it have at least partly been fueled by the players' reactions towards the deck, but it's impossible to know the motivations of Blizzard. Tech cards would be preferable with both odd/even decks and Big Priest, tbh as much as I hate Big Priest I wouldn't want anything in it to actually be nerfed. For Genn and Baku, some kind of reverse Inspire (triggers from opponent's hero power), temporary cost increase, temporary disable, and temporary replacement I could see working.
Is the discussion about whether or not the cards should be nerfed or will be nerfed? You've conflated the two a couple of times, committing an appeal to authority.
I would prefer it if the topic remained whether they should be nerfed, but when the counterargument being presented is "Wild/HS ought to be X way, so you're wrong", it's very unfair of you to call me out for citing the game designers' views on what Wild/HS ought to be. An appeal to authority isn't always a fallacy, especially with something as subjective as "what is this game about?"
It is especially in subjective topics a fallacy. At least in objective questions it can be argued that the authority itself is making an argument, and therefor to appeal to it is to say that since the authority makes the argument, the argument can be made and is a part of the argument in which appeal to authority is used.
Maybe I'm indeed a bit unfair in only targeting the fallacy of your side, but the reason I got involved here in the first place is that your argumentation was so much better than the other side's that I felt it was warping the direction of the debate - you were doing adequate job of disproving their arguments so I saw no need to do it. I don't feel strongly enough about not nerfing Baku or Genn to partake in this discussion just because I disagreed. Some people throw slurs like "dishonest argumentation" at me but I'm just saying, just because I argue for a side, don't assume that's my opinion - thus why I rebutted RavenSunHS' comment.
That's a very long way to say, it's not unfair, you're committing an appeal to authority and it totally is a fallacy.
So to actually try to reach a conclusion here, it's a fallacious argument indeed that HS should be any way, but even more so is to try and justify it, as if claiming it is an objective fact in the first place. In the end it's just a subjective opinion whether playing against odd/even decks is enjoyable and whether they should be nerfed or changed or not.
1. The reward is completly insane. A buff between +3/+3 and +3/+6 is on blessing of Kings level. For two mana. As a heropower. I don‘t even know why we discuss that. When priest ever manages to get the bord, the game is over.
2. Healing 15 Health is a natural thing for priests. Reborn minions can be healed btw. Sure, it‘s not done by turn 5 but this would be way to overpowered. You want to play the long game with this anyways.
doomhammer is control, hoping you can take this face damg during mid-game becoz all the heals around 10 mana. bogshaper is a fine target to use the mega-fury combo on.I think 8 hp is sticky and this deck doesn't have much draw, it's a surprising way to pull some these big minions out around turn 10 too. This is a lot of aoe here and the early game is just baiting out aggro to AOE and then ideally, again heal on t10 into 1 minion that stick for mega-windfury and maybe with rockbiter on it too. The spirit is a good idea though i think just 1!
nimbus would allow for elementary reaction and earthen might to be played early in a lot of games, and i see how this synrgry can give me more elementals for midgame too. Now I removed an earthshock and the feral spirit in favor of them.
I am not about nerfing genn or baku but wanted to say sth. about this situation for Hearthstone.
It was the greatest mistake to make this odd/even mechanic for constructed format. I mean, It will be ok if they design these Genn Greymane and Baku the Mooneater for a new format like brawl, or they could have made brawl a format which we can choose a mode to play between a bunch of modes.
Sooner or later Baku and Genn will limit the design space. Designing and balancing all of the cards around 2 cards all the time is hard. Harder than some people think even it is only for mana costs and please don't say that They don't even consider wild for balance.
So, They might not be problem yet or they are problem already I really don't know but They will be huge problem at some day I'm sure of it.
From watching Whispers of the Old Gods live stream (Ben Brode+Frodan) to building crazy decks with lots of spells to feed Yogg-Saron to seeing all those beautiful disasters aka youtube clips.
Will this card see any competitive play? Probably not but as Frodan eloquently put it: "There is important moment in Hearthstone for every person who played the game where do you go for the glory or do you go for the story"
To your question: no, it's actually the other way around. As you can see, we're just arguing from a different perspective.
You say that as long as perk exists, deck is repetitive.
I say say as long as cards exist, deck is not repetitive.
As I mentioned, you keep reducing this down to a binary. Why? You've already conceded that pressing the button turn after turn is repetitive, so if that is the key distinction between these decks and others, how does it not follow that they're more repetitive than decks that don't?
If I take a glass of water and add a spoonful of salt, then whether or not you consider the water salty is subjective, but surely it is objectively more salty than the glass of clear water?
As for the nerf, they already performed killer nerfs in the past where necessary. Since they didn't, i doubt necessity is there.
Again, do you have any specific ideas on how these cards could be "killer nerfed" while maintaining their overall functionality? I don't. I suppose they could have given them an entirely new ability or condition a la Warsong Commander, but as far as i'm concerned an early rotation is tantamount to a killer nerf.
The Pepper Thread - Share Some Good Vibes!
Just played a game of Thief Rogue against a Mech Hunter (which I had a terrible losing streak against). They made a big 9/8 mech with poisonous missiles to clear my board but I had the most ridiculous way to clear it. I'd played Halazzi, the Lynx the previous turn and had 5 Lynxes in hand due to hand space. Fortunately Hunting Party came through to supply the extra needed Lynxes perfectly even through hand size constraints.
Saviors of Uldum - 5 Pack Bundles Giveaway
Colossus of the Moon because c'mon. Colossus? Moon? 10/10 Divine Shield and Reborn? Yeah, that's what I thought.
Idea for Genn and Baku Nerfs
The degree to which T5 feels that the game needs to be fresh vs stale is not something we have inside knowledge of. If the goal was to make it so that wild never has major predictable or stale cards/plays you'd have to either be constantly nerfing past expansion class staples or introducing major power creep that makes the old powerful staples way less desirable compared to new cards. That is not realistic in the slightest.
Again I go back to my Bloodreaver Gul'Dan argument. Unless you're playing an extremely low curve zoolock build, heavily emphasizing low to midrange curved plays and not building for a late game back up plan then there is not a single warlock deck worth its weight that would ever not include the DK. Be it midrange, control, combo, or straight up OTK the DK will always be extremely good as it creates a pseudo-infinite removal system via the hero power, creates value out of thin air and empty boards, and completely strips the drawback of the warlock hero power/self-damaging theme away due to guaranteed healing each turn. And there are plenty more examples, although much less overblown than DKs, that emphasize that removing Genn/Baku for the sake of making the game fresh is laughable because there are already dozens of cards that are so good that they are not going away without being nerfed or deleted.
Theorycrafting Livestreams Return for Saviors of Uldum - August 1! Uldum Inn-vitational August 5!
Just adding in what everyone else is saying: these inn-vitationals kill hype. But! I AM hyped on Blizzard recognizing and giving spotlight to the myriad content creators that aren't Kripp, Trump, Thijs, etc.
So Blizz, figure out some other promotional content, but keep introducing new creators pls!
Uldum Priest Quest Reveal - Activate the Obelisk
"Uldum's quests aren't Un'Goro quests."
Yeah, I definitely don't mean to suggest that I'm looking at this quest with the same eyes as I might have back in Un'Goro. This quest isn't intended to be the win condition of the deck. But the flip side of that is that because it's not the win condition, it's something that might not need to be in the deck at all.
"I imagine Priest developing a midrange archetype"
I agree that this belongs in a midrange Priest deck. I think the big question is, should this be the 30th card in that deck? It doesn't need a ton of work to build around it because it asks Priest to do what it naturally does, so that's a major plus, but it does cost you a card in your opening hand and it will drive some deck building choices that might weaken the deck overall.
"We don't know what the meta will be"
It's true that we don't know what the metagame will be, but we can be pretty sure that when a new expansion is released, the strongest decks in the early metagame will be either a) aggro decks, or b) decks that were already strong in the old metagame, because people will just swap a couple of cards and run them. This midrange Priest deck will be able to beat aggro decks, but I'm not convinced any midrange Priest deck needs Activate the Obelisk to achieve that. On the other hand, we can say with some certainty that this quest cannot overpower control decks without a major investment in self harm (because the control decks will just hold their minions back and make it harder for you to complete the quest in a timely manner.
Some thoughts regarding the deck:
Specialist Format Removed From Hearthstone Grandmasters Season 2
Lul didn't take that format to fail hard. Not like any of us saw it for the disaster that it was.
T5 there's good reason why many of the most popular streamers with the most views were so successful. They played a variety of decks instead of only hardcoring the single most played deck out there.
Variety makes or breaks games.
Saviors of Uldum - 5 Pack Bundles Giveaway
My favorite card from the set is Plague of Wrath. I like it the most because how much it helps certain Warrior archetypes in Wild.
It helps Dead Man's Hand a massive amount because now you can dump your brawls and don't get them stuck in your hand forever multiplying everytime you play a Dead Man's Hand.
The card has great synergy with Blood Razor wich may help other types of control warrior be viable besides the odd variant, it also may help Scourgelord Garrosh see play.
It is a great help in Odd Warrior against other control decks. Rightnow this variation of control warrior is very bad against priests and warlocks because of amount of removal you have is very little, so another boardclear is very helpful in these situations. Finally Odd Warrior may be now able to beat Big Priests with this, Brawl and Reckless Flurry.
And the most exciting part about this is the deckbuilding of new variations of odd warrior that makes this card work, because Odd Warrior right now doesn't run that many whirlwind effects to take addvantage of this card, I wonder how it will turn out.
This is why I really like Plague of Wrath, the amount of utility and impact it will make in the format is going to be very good for the Warrior class.
Uldum Priest Quest Reveal - Activate the Obelisk
Keep in mind that restored health doesn't have to be to your hero. It could be to minions, or even the enemy hero (Hench-Clan Shadequill?). I'm imagining a deck that runs high health Reborn minions plus AoE heals like Divine Hymn, Neferset Ritualist, and Circle of Healing to complete the quest, since the hero power also has really good Reborn synergy.
Uldum Card Reveal - Mortuary Machine
My first thought was, "How can I force my opponent to summon bad things, like Bomb Squad?", but it's PLAY not summon, as someone else noted. Not sure how to abuse this, so I guess it's just another 5 mana 8/8.
Idea for Genn and Baku Nerfs
Highlander decks don't force you to play an archetype and also Highlander Archetype doesn't force designers to balance cards around those cards. Its restriction is simplier than odd/even. You don't gain anything for a game long for Highlander effects. It's just a card which you used once or bunch of times with bounce effects.
Odd/even archetype would be cool if it was for only cards like Black Cat, Gloom Stag, Murkspark Eel and Glitter Moth but it wasn't.
Look at Highlander cards. Reno Jackson, Kazakus, Raza the Chained, Inkmaster Solia, Krul the Unshackled and new ones Dinotamer Brann, Reno the Relicologist, Sir Finley of the Sands and Elise the Enlightened.
All of them Except Raza the Chained Sir Finley of the Sands have one time effect and Sir Finley's effect is just random so you can't build a deck around an upgraded hero power and Raza the Chained is already Genn Greymane for highlander decks which is more balanced version with all hero powers not just for basic one.
If we come to Genn Greymane and Baku the Mooneater, yes they were a mistake. It doesn't even comparable with Highlander archetype. Highlander archetype can also limit design space if there is a card which gains a start of game effect but it still wouldn't limit like Odd/Even mechanic. It doesn't bring balance issues with mana costs. It just limits deckbuilding not designing so that's why I'm calling Odd/even with Start of game mechanic was a mistake.
Think like that; if Baku the Mooneater was like "Start of Game: If your deck has no duplicates, Your hero power is upgraded.", Would it be same limiting like this ? In my opinion, It would be even more balanced but for deckbuilding. It wouldn't even limit design space.
Edit: Also; what i am saying is not a personal taste, it was a statement. Some people can enjoy more against combo, control, mid-range or aggro; Or someone can hate to play against combo, control, mid-range or aggro. This is a personal taste. I am stating a situation about designing cards and archetypes. So your feelings about Shudderwock Shaman and Even Shaman is just for you. That's a personal taste and feeling, not a situation. I was not about popularity or how much Odd/even decks in the ladder or how it feels to play with or/and against Odd/even decks. I was about a problem which limits designers and players both.
btw, I'm mostly playing wild and I don't really care decks in wild here in this discussion because when we discuss those, there comes feelings, tastes etc.
Uldum Card Reveal - Wrapped Golem
Reborn is looking pretty good. Sure, you can always clear a reborn minion with 1/1 tokens or something, but there are so many, and they're so sticky. I'm thinking we'll be running a lot of silences.
Uldum Priest Quest Reveal - Activate the Obelisk
This will be really powerful, I think. Imagine running Blackwald Pixies, plus Garrison Commander in wild. SO many buffs.
Uldum Priest Quest Reveal - Activate the Obelisk
That's what I think about this quest. IMO, it's best suited for control decks, with taunts/high health minions, specially if they have deathrattle and/or reborn.
New Priest Spell - Activate the Obelisk
Almost, yeah. I remember that people was hyped about Dinomancy (crys in the corner) too for hunter, but this card never saw play aside from some few guys (1%?) of the community. May be it was just hunter, even hunter had more access to board-specific-decks. So it is possible that priest, who is a control class and don't had many good curve minions won't play this quest too, because it's not worth it.
But the chances are at least higher than with Hunter, because this hero power is more versatile, because you can still heal yourself or buff minions. Time will tell.
Idea for Genn and Baku Nerfs
No, it's not. You have more bombs in wild than Odd/Even. Wild is called w i l d for a reason.
With your arguements Highlander decks are an mistake too, because they grant you strong cards for deck restriction and by that Genn and Baku restricts your deck even more, but they are fine just because they don't have immidiate value? Most of the Baku/Genn Decks aren't even played, only 3 Decks Evenshaman and Oddpaladin and occasionally Evenlock. This decks, because they have cards that synergise with their heropower and get sth. on board. So it's always a board fight vs those swarm decks. Every control deck can manage this.
I played 2-3 games this night two was against Evenshaman and one vs Combo/Shuddershaman on R4; and which matchup I hated more? Shudder, because it wasn't very interactive at all with their combo pieces on mass. It feels frustrating and feels like it has no weakness except fast decks. But I guess I just took the wrong deck, the weak Questwarrior with Odd package. Losing to Evenshaman on the other side wasn't frustrating at all, only one thing that i hated, buts just HS in general, he won the brawl with a full board and got his sea giant survived into t8 Lichking play. Same goes too Oddpally both are similiar, but i don't think their are unfair, because they actually need to fight for the board and that's what I like on HS, when decks fights for the board, while Freezemage or Shudderwock/Combo don't require a board.
But these decks also belongs to wild and have their weaknesses, so I don't demand nerfs to them, because they are frustrating to play against, but not oppressive at all compared other nerfed decks like Naga or old Questrogue, which I miss, because I liked to punish combo decks with it :(.
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
I am spending 1 hour to make my decks, half an hour to play and 1 minute to delete thanks to all of the netdecks.
Is that possible to enjoy this game without a friend really ?
Even In-game friends are like hearthstone bots who plays only netdecks while we are dueling. This game's community is trash.
Any game's community is trash i guess. Whenever I play an online game, it feels like this.
People can't be geniune, original and unique even for a second. That's why I like Solo Adventures. Quests need to be completable in Solo Adventures too.
Fuck Twitch, Fuck streamers, fuck youtube; I really missed old times which all people tries to make his own strategy in games.
If you can't enjoy this game, it is not because you don't like cards or something about the game, it is because what you face and play against all the time. Same shit everyday and this is same with any other card game and any other online game.
Fucking humans. I guess I am a racist who hates its own kind.
Idea for Genn and Baku Nerfs
Big Priest has its own hate subreddit. Everything that is either high tier or annoying to play against receives hate, including Odd Paladin, but it doesn't come close to how much Big Priest is despised. I suppose the large amount of tech cards and other attempted solutions against it have at least partly been fueled by the players' reactions towards the deck, but it's impossible to know the motivations of Blizzard. Tech cards would be preferable with both odd/even decks and Big Priest, tbh as much as I hate Big Priest I wouldn't want anything in it to actually be nerfed. For Genn and Baku, some kind of reverse Inspire (triggers from opponent's hero power), temporary cost increase, temporary disable, and temporary replacement I could see working.
It is especially in subjective topics a fallacy. At least in objective questions it can be argued that the authority itself is making an argument, and therefor to appeal to it is to say that since the authority makes the argument, the argument can be made and is a part of the argument in which appeal to authority is used.
Maybe I'm indeed a bit unfair in only targeting the fallacy of your side, but the reason I got involved here in the first place is that your argumentation was so much better than the other side's that I felt it was warping the direction of the debate - you were doing adequate job of disproving their arguments so I saw no need to do it. I don't feel strongly enough about not nerfing Baku or Genn to partake in this discussion just because I disagreed. Some people throw slurs like "dishonest argumentation" at me but I'm just saying, just because I argue for a side, don't assume that's my opinion - thus why I rebutted RavenSunHS' comment.
That's a very long way to say, it's not unfair, you're committing an appeal to authority and it totally is a fallacy.
So to actually try to reach a conclusion here, it's a fallacious argument indeed that HS should be any way, but even more so is to try and justify it, as if claiming it is an objective fact in the first place. In the end it's just a subjective opinion whether playing against odd/even decks is enjoyable and whether they should be nerfed or changed or not.
New Priest Spell - Activate the Obelisk
It‘s allmost impossible that this won’t see play.
1. The reward is completly insane. A buff between +3/+3 and +3/+6 is on blessing of Kings level. For two mana. As a heropower. I don‘t even know why we discuss that. When priest ever manages to get the bord, the game is over.
2. Healing 15 Health is a natural thing for priests. Reborn minions can be healed btw. Sure, it‘s not done by turn 5 but this would be way to overpowered. You want to play the long game with this anyways.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Done
omega healing shaman
doomhammer is control, hoping you can take this face damg during mid-game becoz all the heals around 10 mana. bogshaper is a fine target to use the mega-fury combo on.I think 8 hp is sticky and this deck doesn't have much draw, it's a surprising way to pull some these big minions out around turn 10 too. This is a lot of aoe here and the early game is just baiting out aggro to AOE and then ideally, again heal on t10 into 1 minion that stick for mega-windfury and maybe with rockbiter on it too. The spirit is a good idea though i think just 1!
nimbus would allow for elementary reaction and earthen might to be played early in a lot of games, and i see how this synrgry can give me more elementals for midgame too. Now I removed an earthshock and the feral spirit in favor of them.
Uldum Priest Quest Reveal - Activate the Obelisk
Wow okay so that changes everything. Definitely going to be meta defining.
Idea for Genn and Baku Nerfs
I am not about nerfing genn or baku but wanted to say sth. about this situation for Hearthstone.
It was the greatest mistake to make this odd/even mechanic for constructed format. I mean, It will be ok if they design these Genn Greymane and Baku the Mooneater for a new format like brawl, or they could have made brawl a format which we can choose a mode to play between a bunch of modes.
Sooner or later Baku and Genn will limit the design space. Designing and balancing all of the cards around 2 cards all the time is hard. Harder than some people think even it is only for mana costs and please don't say that They don't even consider wild for balance.
So, They might not be problem yet or they are problem already I really don't know but They will be huge problem at some day I'm sure of it.
Saviors of Uldum - 5 Pack Bundles Giveaway
I think for me it's High Priest Amet, i just want Priest to work (and I like the concept of this card + the combo potential)
Saviors of Uldum - 5 Pack Bundles Giveaway
For me it's Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron because I have so many great memories from Old Gods.
From watching Whispers of the Old Gods live stream (Ben Brode+Frodan) to building crazy decks with lots of spells to feed Yogg-Saron to seeing all those beautiful disasters aka youtube clips.
Will this card see any competitive play? Probably not but as Frodan eloquently put it: "There is important moment in Hearthstone for every person who played the game where do you go for the glory or do you go for the story"
Idea for Genn and Baku Nerfs
As I mentioned, you keep reducing this down to a binary. Why? You've already conceded that pressing the button turn after turn is repetitive, so if that is the key distinction between these decks and others, how does it not follow that they're more repetitive than decks that don't?
If I take a glass of water and add a spoonful of salt, then whether or not you consider the water salty is subjective, but surely it is objectively more salty than the glass of clear water?
Again, do you have any specific ideas on how these cards could be "killer nerfed" while maintaining their overall functionality? I don't. I suppose they could have given them an entirely new ability or condition a la Warsong Commander, but as far as i'm concerned an early rotation is tantamount to a killer nerf.