Hi, popping in despite not being a part of the community for years to quickly voice a suggestion which I'm sure has been made many times prior:
On pages for cards with additional non-visible information (e.g. Hero cards), it would be very desirable to have that additional information on the page. For the example given, a Hero card should show the new hero power alongside it, given that without that context it's impossible to actually 'look at' the card (if that makes sense).
I want to use Out of Cards as my resource for things like expansion information and reference, but when it's missing this context it's basically impossible to do so and I'm forced to use one of your competitors. In this case, being forced to use hstopdecks despite despising the site, simply because that information is all present.
I'm sure this would require manual coding rather than the automation which is presumably used to pull card information - but it would be worth it, in my view, to make the expansion guide function as intended.
To be clear - the reason 'skill' exists is simply because it's an effect they want to be Deny-able but which is not a spell. Don't read anything further into it than that.
Honestly I was fine with the speed as it was and find the current speed far too fast. But eh, I don't really care either way, so if makes people happier I won't argue.
So far having done a fair bit of testing (but which I can't, with clear conscience, call 'extensive'):
- One Champion decks are possible but rare
- I've seen Champion trades on 4-6 wins, but more commonly 6
- They seem to be offered when you heavily focus one area - I haven't confirmed yet whether it's bucket-specific or archetype-specific, but I'm very confident it's the former because...
- Certain buckets - specifically one of each region monotype bucket, Braum's poro-bucket and Heimer's Cataclysm bucket - have only one champion on offer rather than the two the other buckets have
My supposition - not yet a conclusion - is that you can soft-force a mono-champion deck by specifically picking from a mono-champion bucket to the exclusion of all else at every opportunity. Note that it won't be foolproof by any means, and honestly probably isn't worth it given you usually want to dip into other buckets for answers.
Still doing more testing in this area though, so all statements subject to the 'oops, turns out that was wrong' principle!
I'm genuinely confused why you'd run Amazing Reno if you're not going to use the hero power. Surely there are better options than burning a card slot and potentially a mulligan opportunity to be able to play a 10 mana Twisting Nether...
To be fair, it's a Play effect, which triggers when and only when card is played. So, by its very nature, it looks at a snapshot when played and any subsequent effect does nothing. I presume adding the word would cause overlap issues with the card frame, though, because I agree it'd be both clearer and more legible with 'have' in there.
Incidentally.. I've been poking fun at it, but it would be pretty sweet if levelled Lux generated Finales Funkeln instead of Final Spark :3
My native language holds many sweet alliterations ;). Although, just in case you're interested: The meaning of "funkeln" is somewhat different from "spark." It's a verb which roughly means "glitter" or "sparkle".
I have no grasp of German (at least I assume it's German? Purely a guess) - I'm just an old school League player who remembers when that was the ability's actual name before Rito decided to change it to pander to those among us who get confused when reminded other languages exist :P
Generally I agree with Meisterz' logic on this one, as noted above. However, I would say there's nothing wrong with giving Finales Funkeln Final Spark a different keyword so long as that design space is subsequently used - the main issue with it right now is honestly just that it's unique and using what feels like a borrowed keyword.
Considering both views, I'd say the interaction does seem inappropriate. Meisterz39's consideration of targeting is the sticking point for me.
- Overwhelm minion declares an attack, is blocked, can deal damage to Nexus
- Overwhelm minion forced to Strike another minion via spell, cannot deal damage to Nexus
- Typical spell targeting minion will fizzle if it loses target
- Noting that spell-based draining effects will also fizzle if they lose target - not directly relevant, but an argument could be made for them being analogous to Overwhelm on spells (inasmuch as they deal damage to a unit and then have a corresponding effect on Nexus health)
A minion attack will go straight through to Nexus if its blocker is removed and it has Overwhelm, certainly - but that's a minion attack, not a spell. All spells bar this one will fizzle if their target is removed prior to resolution, irrespective of their effect on Nexus health.
Given the above, I would say that there are two answers to the question:
1. Overwhelm, in the single unique case of Finales Funkeln Final Spark, has intended functionality entirely separate to every other spell in the game, resulting in a lack of general clarity/consistency
2. It's the only spell in the game which has Overwhelm, so it was easier to code it as an unsourced minion attack with Overwhelm than to build the code bespoke
To follow on, personally I'd be splashing in Dawnspeakers as well. Dawnspiders has fallen off the meta a little, but any deck you're trying to flood with is one Dawnspeakers has a solid chance of performing in.
To make room for the above, I'd be dropping Vile Feast, personally. It's a fairly weak card at the two mana slot. I'm also a little skeptical about running the full three copies of Rekindler and Rhasa because they're really quite heavy in a midrange deck.
My guess is you're avoiding splashing Demacia to guarantee the Wraithcaller proc, but generally taking suboptimal deckbuilding choices to improve your odds on a single card slot is unlikely to be effective - particularly comparing LoR to Hearthstone, where you've got a bigger deck size with fewer card draw options.
Always consider that spells resolve from left to right, in the order they're placed on the "bar" in the mid screen.
It's one of the few situations where a physical card game would actually be clearer in some ways. A 'stack' in other card games is pretty clear in execution - you work down from the top. Runeterra has essentially the same stack, but because it'd be more difficult to see the lower cards in a digital format you wind up with a left-to-right display as well, which is marginally less intuitive.
I forgot to mention Nadina the Red! If she heads up a decent dragon board, that's some serious hurt for your opponent. I once had 2 of her, one on the left and one in the middle. Lucky me, all my dragons got 2 waves of shields.
Has anyone tripled Nadina? I'm curious if her effect changes, or just her stats.
Yup, I have. And yup, it's stats only. Upgrading her is actively bad because you want her to die before any of your dragons do.
Be careful what you wish for. Frostbite being burst means that you actually CAN react to it for a lot of decks. Because it is burst, you can attack-buff your unit in combat after it has been frostbitten. If frostbite spells were fast and played first thing in combat, they would resolve last, meaning your unit would have 0 power no matter what.
Agreed. Frostbite cards not being Burst would mean they would be countered by Deny, but not by the dozen cards that already counter them.
Regarding The Rekindler, I don't think it would be appropriate to nerf it unless you can come up with a couple of other decks where it's truly oppressive.
If Hecarim is pretty much the only time Rekindler is a problem, that points to the real problem being Hecarim. In fact, Rekindler could make a good canary in the coal mine for detecting troublesome Champions in general.
I don't think that's a good barometer, personally, because all you'd be identifying is champions that give a lot of value/inevitability. The only reason Trynd isn't being played alongside Rekindler is Freljord's late game push got nerfed badly after closed beta.
Judging new champions by merit of 'does this make Rekindler broken' basically means new champions stick to 5 mana or below and are either stat-sticks or understatted value, tbh.
Personally very skeptical about including Chain Vest in any list. Seems like a very inefficient card in a deck lacking a draw engine. I also wouldn't be running Detain, personally, as the deck is horribly vulnerable to removal as it is - doubling down seems odd.
@Pezman - Yup, Razorgore can pop off in a big way. For Deathwing shenanigans, Sottle has been posting a few tweets of what Deathwing has been doing for him - he posted one screenshot of getting (iirc) top 4 with just a Murloc Tidecaller and a Rat Pack on his board. Then posted another which didn't use Rat Pack just to show he could.
@PopeNeia - I don't think I'd put Reno in tier 1 simply because of his atrocious early game. He has to make it through to find the aforementioned minions and then find the relevant stuff to synergise with it before he really does anything - and given how fast games are ending right now that's far from guaranteed. Ysera I'd consider giving Tier 1 to, but she has a similar late game issue (though she has more reliability in the early and midgame at least).
@Skorpionex - It's a valid point, but whether that's reliable or not is another question. I find Annoy-o-Module in particular to be irritatingly rare.
Is that luck, or is it something else? Plenty of external factors could affect that (not least your own drive, alertness, tilt factor etc.).
I find my luck to be fairly consistent in LoR with occasional spikes of excellence, but I'd imagine that'll change when I start actually trying to grind ranked...
Hi, popping in despite not being a part of the community for years to quickly voice a suggestion which I'm sure has been made many times prior:
On pages for cards with additional non-visible information (e.g. Hero cards), it would be very desirable to have that additional information on the page. For the example given, a Hero card should show the new hero power alongside it, given that without that context it's impossible to actually 'look at' the card (if that makes sense).
I want to use Out of Cards as my resource for things like expansion information and reference, but when it's missing this context it's basically impossible to do so and I'm forced to use one of your competitors. In this case, being forced to use hstopdecks despite despising the site, simply because that information is all present.
I'm sure this would require manual coding rather than the automation which is presumably used to pull card information - but it would be worth it, in my view, to make the expansion guide function as intended.
To be clear - the reason 'skill' exists is simply because it's an effect they want to be Deny-able but which is not a spell. Don't read anything further into it than that.
Honestly I was fine with the speed as it was and find the current speed far too fast. But eh, I don't really care either way, so if makes people happier I won't argue.
So far having done a fair bit of testing (but which I can't, with clear conscience, call 'extensive'):
- One Champion decks are possible but rare
- I've seen Champion trades on 4-6 wins, but more commonly 6
- They seem to be offered when you heavily focus one area - I haven't confirmed yet whether it's bucket-specific or archetype-specific, but I'm very confident it's the former because...
- Certain buckets - specifically one of each region monotype bucket, Braum's poro-bucket and Heimer's Cataclysm bucket - have only one champion on offer rather than the two the other buckets have
My supposition - not yet a conclusion - is that you can soft-force a mono-champion deck by specifically picking from a mono-champion bucket to the exclusion of all else at every opportunity. Note that it won't be foolproof by any means, and honestly probably isn't worth it given you usually want to dip into other buckets for answers.
Still doing more testing in this area though, so all statements subject to the 'oops, turns out that was wrong' principle!
I'm genuinely confused why you'd run Amazing Reno if you're not going to use the hero power. Surely there are better options than burning a card slot and potentially a mulligan opportunity to be able to play a 10 mana Twisting Nether...
I'mma just bask in the glow of the infamous Internet 'First' :P
To be fair, it's a Play effect, which triggers when and only when card is played. So, by its very nature, it looks at a snapshot when played and any subsequent effect does nothing. I presume adding the word would cause overlap issues with the card frame, though, because I agree it'd be both clearer and more legible with 'have' in there.
I have no grasp of German (at least I assume it's German? Purely a guess) - I'm just an old school League player who remembers when that was the ability's actual name before Rito decided to change it to pander to those among us who get confused when reminded other languages exist :P
Incidentally.. I've been poking fun at it, but it would be pretty sweet if levelled Lux generated Finales Funkeln instead of Final Spark :3
Generally I agree with Meisterz' logic on this one, as noted above. However, I would say there's nothing wrong with giving Finales Funkeln Final Spark a different keyword so long as that design space is subsequently used - the main issue with it right now is honestly just that it's unique and using what feels like a borrowed keyword.
NGL, I genuinely laughed when I saw it proposed that Relentless Pursuit should be five mana. People do so love to brick cards.
Considering both views, I'd say the interaction does seem inappropriate. Meisterz39's consideration of targeting is the sticking point for me.
- Overwhelm minion declares an attack, is blocked, can deal damage to Nexus
- Overwhelm minion forced to Strike another minion via spell, cannot deal damage to Nexus
- Typical spell targeting minion will fizzle if it loses target
- Noting that spell-based draining effects will also fizzle if they lose target - not directly relevant, but an argument could be made for them being analogous to Overwhelm on spells (inasmuch as they deal damage to a unit and then have a corresponding effect on Nexus health)
A minion attack will go straight through to Nexus if its blocker is removed and it has Overwhelm, certainly - but that's a minion attack, not a spell. All spells bar this one will fizzle if their target is removed prior to resolution, irrespective of their effect on Nexus health.
Given the above, I would say that there are two answers to the question:
1. Overwhelm, in the single unique case of Finales Funkeln Final Spark, has intended functionality entirely separate to every other spell in the game, resulting in a lack of general clarity/consistency
2. It's the only spell in the game which has Overwhelm, so it was easier to code it as an unsourced minion attack with Overwhelm than to build the code bespoke
Gotta say, option #2 seems far more likely to me.
To follow on, personally I'd be splashing in Dawnspeakers as well. Dawnspiders has fallen off the meta a little, but any deck you're trying to flood with is one Dawnspeakers has a solid chance of performing in.
To make room for the above, I'd be dropping Vile Feast, personally. It's a fairly weak card at the two mana slot. I'm also a little skeptical about running the full three copies of Rekindler and Rhasa because they're really quite heavy in a midrange deck.
My guess is you're avoiding splashing Demacia to guarantee the Wraithcaller proc, but generally taking suboptimal deckbuilding choices to improve your odds on a single card slot is unlikely to be effective - particularly comparing LoR to Hearthstone, where you've got a bigger deck size with fewer card draw options.
It's one of the few situations where a physical card game would actually be clearer in some ways. A 'stack' in other card games is pretty clear in execution - you work down from the top. Runeterra has essentially the same stack, but because it'd be more difficult to see the lower cards in a digital format you wind up with a left-to-right display as well, which is marginally less intuitive.
Yup, I have. And yup, it's stats only. Upgrading her is actively bad because you want her to die before any of your dragons do.
Yes, I was mad.
Agreed. Frostbite cards not being Burst would mean they would be countered by Deny, but not by the dozen cards that already counter them.
I don't think that's a good barometer, personally, because all you'd be identifying is champions that give a lot of value/inevitability. The only reason Trynd isn't being played alongside Rekindler is Freljord's late game push got nerfed badly after closed beta.
Judging new champions by merit of 'does this make Rekindler broken' basically means new champions stick to 5 mana or below and are either stat-sticks or understatted value, tbh.
Personally very skeptical about including Chain Vest in any list. Seems like a very inefficient card in a deck lacking a draw engine. I also wouldn't be running Detain, personally, as the deck is horribly vulnerable to removal as it is - doubling down seems odd.
@Pezman - Yup, Razorgore can pop off in a big way. For Deathwing shenanigans, Sottle has been posting a few tweets of what Deathwing has been doing for him - he posted one screenshot of getting (iirc) top 4 with just a Murloc Tidecaller and a Rat Pack on his board. Then posted another which didn't use Rat Pack just to show he could.
@PopeNeia - I don't think I'd put Reno in tier 1 simply because of his atrocious early game. He has to make it through to find the aforementioned minions and then find the relevant stuff to synergise with it before he really does anything - and given how fast games are ending right now that's far from guaranteed. Ysera I'd consider giving Tier 1 to, but she has a similar late game issue (though she has more reliability in the early and midgame at least).
@Skorpionex - It's a valid point, but whether that's reliable or not is another question. I find Annoy-o-Module in particular to be irritatingly rare.
Is that luck, or is it something else? Plenty of external factors could affect that (not least your own drive, alertness, tilt factor etc.).
I find my luck to be fairly consistent in LoR with occasional spikes of excellence, but I'd imagine that'll change when I start actually trying to grind ranked...