Hi, popping in despite not being a part of the community for years to quickly voice a suggestion which I'm sure has been made many times prior:
On pages for cards with additional non-visible information (e.g. Hero cards), it would be very desirable to have that additional information on the page. For the example given, a Hero card should show the new hero power alongside it, given that without that context it's impossible to actually 'look at' the card (if that makes sense).
I want to use Out of Cards as my resource for things like expansion information and reference, but when it's missing this context it's basically impossible to do so and I'm forced to use one of your competitors. In this case, being forced to use hstopdecks despite despising the site, simply because that information is all present.
I'm sure this would require manual coding rather than the automation which is presumably used to pull card information - but it would be worth it, in my view, to make the expansion guide function as intended.
Except he can't wipe an entire teamfight with one E... :P
What amuses me about Garen is that not only is his kit pretty straightforward, it also hard wrecks some kits which are billed as high complexity - particularly Riven. The number of whines you get when you counter a Riven one-trick with Garen is phenomenal.
To be clear - the reason 'skill' exists is simply because it's an effect they want to be Deny-able but which is not a spell. Don't read anything further into it than that.
Honestly I was fine with the speed as it was and find the current speed far too fast. But eh, I don't really care either way, so if makes people happier I won't argue.
So far having done a fair bit of testing (but which I can't, with clear conscience, call 'extensive'):
- One Champion decks are possible but rare
- I've seen Champion trades on 4-6 wins, but more commonly 6
- They seem to be offered when you heavily focus one area - I haven't confirmed yet whether it's bucket-specific or archetype-specific, but I'm very confident it's the former because...
- Certain buckets - specifically one of each region monotype bucket, Braum's poro-bucket and Heimer's Cataclysm bucket - have only one champion on offer rather than the two the other buckets have
My supposition - not yet a conclusion - is that you can soft-force a mono-champion deck by specifically picking from a mono-champion bucket to the exclusion of all else at every opportunity. Note that it won't be foolproof by any means, and honestly probably isn't worth it given you usually want to dip into other buckets for answers.
Still doing more testing in this area though, so all statements subject to the 'oops, turns out that was wrong' principle!
Just immediately answering responses - he would be busted if he went to a 1 mana refresh with no other changes. Would immediately catapult any Brann-centric strategy through the roof.
Not that I'm saying the refresh cost isn't crippling, because it really is. But he's going to need some other downside before just buffing refresh cost is reasonable in my opinion.
All of these make sense as solid universal picks - most of the cards you're probably all thinking of are comp-specific. The two exceptions are Tidehunter - which is the best middle-of-the-road pick on turn 1, since it's 3/2 of stats with a 2 gold refund - and Cobalt Guardian which is ridiculously good even as a standalone minion in the early game if you just play one other throwaway mech.
Defender of Argus is the only one that surprises me though there's nothing mind-blowing at tier 4 - some decent picks, but nothing comp-defining. What surprises me is that Menagerie Magician wasn't higher than it.
I'm genuinely confused why you'd run Amazing Reno if you're not going to use the hero power. Surely there are better options than burning a card slot and potentially a mulligan opportunity to be able to play a 10 mana Twisting Nether...
To be fair, it's a Play effect, which triggers when and only when card is played. So, by its very nature, it looks at a snapshot when played and any subsequent effect does nothing. I presume adding the word would cause overlap issues with the card frame, though, because I agree it'd be both clearer and more legible with 'have' in there.
Incidentally.. I've been poking fun at it, but it would be pretty sweet if levelled Lux generated Finales Funkeln instead of Final Spark :3
My native language holds many sweet alliterations ;). Although, just in case you're interested: The meaning of "funkeln" is somewhat different from "spark." It's a verb which roughly means "glitter" or "sparkle".
I have no grasp of German (at least I assume it's German? Purely a guess) - I'm just an old school League player who remembers when that was the ability's actual name before Rito decided to change it to pander to those among us who get confused when reminded other languages exist :P
Generally I agree with Meisterz' logic on this one, as noted above. However, I would say there's nothing wrong with giving Finales Funkeln Final Spark a different keyword so long as that design space is subsequently used - the main issue with it right now is honestly just that it's unique and using what feels like a borrowed keyword.
Considering both views, I'd say the interaction does seem inappropriate. Meisterz39's consideration of targeting is the sticking point for me.
- Overwhelm minion declares an attack, is blocked, can deal damage to Nexus
- Overwhelm minion forced to Strike another minion via spell, cannot deal damage to Nexus
- Typical spell targeting minion will fizzle if it loses target
- Noting that spell-based draining effects will also fizzle if they lose target - not directly relevant, but an argument could be made for them being analogous to Overwhelm on spells (inasmuch as they deal damage to a unit and then have a corresponding effect on Nexus health)
A minion attack will go straight through to Nexus if its blocker is removed and it has Overwhelm, certainly - but that's a minion attack, not a spell. All spells bar this one will fizzle if their target is removed prior to resolution, irrespective of their effect on Nexus health.
Given the above, I would say that there are two answers to the question:
1. Overwhelm, in the single unique case of Finales Funkeln Final Spark, has intended functionality entirely separate to every other spell in the game, resulting in a lack of general clarity/consistency
2. It's the only spell in the game which has Overwhelm, so it was easier to code it as an unsourced minion attack with Overwhelm than to build the code bespoke
To follow on, personally I'd be splashing in Dawnspeakers as well. Dawnspiders has fallen off the meta a little, but any deck you're trying to flood with is one Dawnspeakers has a solid chance of performing in.
To make room for the above, I'd be dropping Vile Feast, personally. It's a fairly weak card at the two mana slot. I'm also a little skeptical about running the full three copies of Rekindler and Rhasa because they're really quite heavy in a midrange deck.
My guess is you're avoiding splashing Demacia to guarantee the Wraithcaller proc, but generally taking suboptimal deckbuilding choices to improve your odds on a single card slot is unlikely to be effective - particularly comparing LoR to Hearthstone, where you've got a bigger deck size with fewer card draw options.
Always consider that spells resolve from left to right, in the order they're placed on the "bar" in the mid screen.
It's one of the few situations where a physical card game would actually be clearer in some ways. A 'stack' in other card games is pretty clear in execution - you work down from the top. Runeterra has essentially the same stack, but because it'd be more difficult to see the lower cards in a digital format you wind up with a left-to-right display as well, which is marginally less intuitive.
I forgot to mention Nadina the Red! If she heads up a decent dragon board, that's some serious hurt for your opponent. I once had 2 of her, one on the left and one in the middle. Lucky me, all my dragons got 2 waves of shields.
Has anyone tripled Nadina? I'm curious if her effect changes, or just her stats.
Yup, I have. And yup, it's stats only. Upgrading her is actively bad because you want her to die before any of your dragons do.
Hi, popping in despite not being a part of the community for years to quickly voice a suggestion which I'm sure has been made many times prior:
On pages for cards with additional non-visible information (e.g. Hero cards), it would be very desirable to have that additional information on the page. For the example given, a Hero card should show the new hero power alongside it, given that without that context it's impossible to actually 'look at' the card (if that makes sense).
I want to use Out of Cards as my resource for things like expansion information and reference, but when it's missing this context it's basically impossible to do so and I'm forced to use one of your competitors. In this case, being forced to use hstopdecks despite despising the site, simply because that information is all present.
I'm sure this would require manual coding rather than the automation which is presumably used to pull card information - but it would be worth it, in my view, to make the expansion guide function as intended.
Except he can't wipe an entire teamfight with one E... :P
What amuses me about Garen is that not only is his kit pretty straightforward, it also hard wrecks some kits which are billed as high complexity - particularly Riven. The number of whines you get when you counter a Riven one-trick with Garen is phenomenal.
To be clear - the reason 'skill' exists is simply because it's an effect they want to be Deny-able but which is not a spell. Don't read anything further into it than that.
Expecting? No...
Hoping... Kinda...
Honestly I was fine with the speed as it was and find the current speed far too fast. But eh, I don't really care either way, so if makes people happier I won't argue.
So far having done a fair bit of testing (but which I can't, with clear conscience, call 'extensive'):
- One Champion decks are possible but rare
- I've seen Champion trades on 4-6 wins, but more commonly 6
- They seem to be offered when you heavily focus one area - I haven't confirmed yet whether it's bucket-specific or archetype-specific, but I'm very confident it's the former because...
- Certain buckets - specifically one of each region monotype bucket, Braum's poro-bucket and Heimer's Cataclysm bucket - have only one champion on offer rather than the two the other buckets have
My supposition - not yet a conclusion - is that you can soft-force a mono-champion deck by specifically picking from a mono-champion bucket to the exclusion of all else at every opportunity. Note that it won't be foolproof by any means, and honestly probably isn't worth it given you usually want to dip into other buckets for answers.
Still doing more testing in this area though, so all statements subject to the 'oops, turns out that was wrong' principle!
Just immediately answering responses - he would be busted if he went to a 1 mana refresh with no other changes. Would immediately catapult any Brann-centric strategy through the roof.
Not that I'm saying the refresh cost isn't crippling, because it really is. But he's going to need some other downside before just buffing refresh cost is reasonable in my opinion.
All of these make sense as solid universal picks - most of the cards you're probably all thinking of are comp-specific. The two exceptions are Tidehunter - which is the best middle-of-the-road pick on turn 1, since it's 3/2 of stats with a 2 gold refund - and Cobalt Guardian which is ridiculously good even as a standalone minion in the early game if you just play one other throwaway mech.
Defender of Argus is the only one that surprises me though there's nothing mind-blowing at tier 4 - some decent picks, but nothing comp-defining. What surprises me is that Menagerie Magician wasn't higher than it.
I want my Quest Rogue to be unnerfed ._. it wouldn't even be good in Wild, just give me back 4-bounce and 5-mana-giggles!
I'm genuinely confused why you'd run Amazing Reno if you're not going to use the hero power. Surely there are better options than burning a card slot and potentially a mulligan opportunity to be able to play a 10 mana Twisting Nether...
I'mma just bask in the glow of the infamous Internet 'First' :P
To be fair, it's a Play effect, which triggers when and only when card is played. So, by its very nature, it looks at a snapshot when played and any subsequent effect does nothing. I presume adding the word would cause overlap issues with the card frame, though, because I agree it'd be both clearer and more legible with 'have' in there.
I have no grasp of German (at least I assume it's German? Purely a guess) - I'm just an old school League player who remembers when that was the ability's actual name before Rito decided to change it to pander to those among us who get confused when reminded other languages exist :P
Incidentally.. I've been poking fun at it, but it would be pretty sweet if levelled Lux generated Finales Funkeln instead of Final Spark :3
Generally I agree with Meisterz' logic on this one, as noted above. However, I would say there's nothing wrong with giving Finales Funkeln Final Spark a different keyword so long as that design space is subsequently used - the main issue with it right now is honestly just that it's unique and using what feels like a borrowed keyword.
NGL, I genuinely laughed when I saw it proposed that Relentless Pursuit should be five mana. People do so love to brick cards.
Considering both views, I'd say the interaction does seem inappropriate. Meisterz39's consideration of targeting is the sticking point for me.
- Overwhelm minion declares an attack, is blocked, can deal damage to Nexus
- Overwhelm minion forced to Strike another minion via spell, cannot deal damage to Nexus
- Typical spell targeting minion will fizzle if it loses target
- Noting that spell-based draining effects will also fizzle if they lose target - not directly relevant, but an argument could be made for them being analogous to Overwhelm on spells (inasmuch as they deal damage to a unit and then have a corresponding effect on Nexus health)
A minion attack will go straight through to Nexus if its blocker is removed and it has Overwhelm, certainly - but that's a minion attack, not a spell. All spells bar this one will fizzle if their target is removed prior to resolution, irrespective of their effect on Nexus health.
Given the above, I would say that there are two answers to the question:
1. Overwhelm, in the single unique case of Finales Funkeln Final Spark, has intended functionality entirely separate to every other spell in the game, resulting in a lack of general clarity/consistency
2. It's the only spell in the game which has Overwhelm, so it was easier to code it as an unsourced minion attack with Overwhelm than to build the code bespoke
Gotta say, option #2 seems far more likely to me.
To follow on, personally I'd be splashing in Dawnspeakers as well. Dawnspiders has fallen off the meta a little, but any deck you're trying to flood with is one Dawnspeakers has a solid chance of performing in.
To make room for the above, I'd be dropping Vile Feast, personally. It's a fairly weak card at the two mana slot. I'm also a little skeptical about running the full three copies of Rekindler and Rhasa because they're really quite heavy in a midrange deck.
My guess is you're avoiding splashing Demacia to guarantee the Wraithcaller proc, but generally taking suboptimal deckbuilding choices to improve your odds on a single card slot is unlikely to be effective - particularly comparing LoR to Hearthstone, where you've got a bigger deck size with fewer card draw options.
It's one of the few situations where a physical card game would actually be clearer in some ways. A 'stack' in other card games is pretty clear in execution - you work down from the top. Runeterra has essentially the same stack, but because it'd be more difficult to see the lower cards in a digital format you wind up with a left-to-right display as well, which is marginally less intuitive.
Yup, I have. And yup, it's stats only. Upgrading her is actively bad because you want her to die before any of your dragons do.
Yes, I was mad.