Hey guys, just got back from the future, and I only had time to watch one YouTube video. I saw MarkMcKz absolutely destroy his opponent with an OTK enabled by playing six of these in one game. Completely busted. Will definitely be meta.
I think it could see play in a mediocre Druid deck. Survival of the Fittest for 10 mana. Next turn fill your board with 8/8 taunts. That's not a great play because it'd be better to have SotF hit medium things for consistency, playability, and value, but it would be a fun as hell closer.
1) In regards to the stats: many variants of those decks are running well above 60% on HSReplay. The aggregate variants across all ranks is what drops them below 60%. I don't have premium HSReplay so admittedly my analysis is limited. I read the VS report at your suggestion, and while the meta is generally healthy (I wasn't trying to be negative about the state of the game in my OP), I think there are clear issues.
2) Sinister Strike IS a bad card. It's also run in many variants of rogue that are performing above 63% on HSReplay. That's a testament to the power of Secret Passage. It's why it's Viscious Syndicate's metabreaker of the week, and the most played deck at competitive ranks. There are a lot of lethal outs for Rogue - maybe I shouldn't have focused on Sinister Strike. Secret Passage is broken on its face, and there's only one thing really keeping it in check.
3) What does best against Rogue? Even more aggressive Hunter and Demon Hunter decks that are powered by Voracious Reader. If you nerf Secret Passage you can't ignore the even more aggressive decks.
4) Despite the hyper-aggression, Libram Paladin is incredibly versatile and dominant, even if it doesn't quite top the chart at the highest levels of competition. What makes it unfair? I looked at Argent Braggart, First Day of School, and High Abbess Alura, but ultimately the problem is that Libram of Wisdom is over-powered at every stage of the game. I'm open to a different suggestion of how to deal with that, but I couldn't think of a better one.
5) Basically, if you agree that Voracious Reader should be nerfed as a versatile neutral that's pushing zoo/aggro too far over the top, you also have to look at keeping Rogue and Paladin in check. I thought the nerfs I suggested, only three cards in total, were pretty conservative, and don't kill their utility.
Context - We're three weeks into the Scholomance Acadamey Expansion. Kael'thas Sunstrider, who was broken before Day 1, has been fixed, but no other nerfs for Standard have been introduced (Mindrender Illucia was mostly for Wild).
HSReplay has the Tier 1 decks as Libram Paladin (58.1%), Face Hunter (57.4%), Stealth Rogue (57.2%), and Aggro Demon Hunter (55.9%).
My suggested nerfs:
Libram of Wisdom - Change the cost from 2-mana to 3-mana. This wouldn't affect the end-game power of the card or of Lady Liadrin, but would make for a much fairer early-game and mid-game. At first I speculated on changing stats or discounts of Aldor Attendant or Aldor Truthseeker, but their stats and effects are generally balanced for the other Librams. You want wisdom? You need to study harder and longer first.
Voracious Reader - Change the cost from 2-mana to 3-mana. There's nothing to over-think here. Make the card slower. Make it harder for a player to empty their hand on the same turn they play this. Make it come down later when the opponent can more easily deal with it. We all knew this card was too good as printed, and it's overdue for a nerf.
Secret Passage - Change "Replace your hand with 5 cards from your deck" to "3 cards." The Soularium was an excellent legendary spell. This draws more, is more consistent, and has no down-side. It's barely RNG to use this card to search for a game-winning Eviscerate or Sinister Strike. Making this change won't alter a single deck-list in current Rogue decks, but would hopefully shave a few tenths of a percent off their win-rate.
I think Hearthstone is better than ever, Team 5 is doing a great job, and I don't typically think about Blizzard, let alone complain about them. However, I think news like this is important, and has broader implications for the video game industry and society.
I've worked for large institutions and small non-profits, and I've witnessed unfair wage discrepancies at both. Each time I've been the one earning more, and I volunteered my salary and benefits info with other co-workers who went on to advocate for the pay they deserved (without outing me). It's a good thing to get in the habit of doing. You might found out you should be making more, or you might help someone else. I've never been part of a company-wide revolt, but I've got another 28 years to accomplish that before social security kicks in.
I have no regrets crafting Kayn Sunfury because that card is 100% getting nerfed. My opponent had a weapon, no board, and did 15 to my face, bypassing three taunts. It just seems to violate the rule of interactivity, far worse than even something like the original Patches. He was aided by mana discounts from Skull of Guldan - another card that seems OP. It's not that difficult to be patient on Outcast in general let alone for a control card. Nerf Kayn to 6-mana and nerf Skull of Guldan's Outcast to a 2-mana discount per card (which is still great!).
The pinging cards also seem over-statted, but I haven't played with/against them enough yet to have a suggestion.
I haven't found it to be oppressive, and it's often a dead card in my hand. I'd be curious to hear about its stats before taking action. I do like someone's point that it bends the meta away from control. I think one thing that would help is clarification on which kinds of ally abilities show up in the spell queue and can be countered. Some "Play" effects go in the queue and others don't. I think a nice way to balance the card would be to give it "refill your opponent's spell mana." That way it punishes big ally "Play" effects (but they still get the big ally), but isn't as devastating when they got nothing off their big spell.
I'm going to treat this as a first impressions thread. My background is that I played MTG from Revised/Dark until Weatherlight. I stopped playing in 1997 and didn't realize that it was more popular than ever until 2010 (I am old). I've played Hearthstone since shortly before GvG, and I've gone from being a pure F2P player to paying for most pre-orders (I am old, but I have income!)
I tried MTG: Arena last year. I got mana screwed half a dozen times and straight up didn't bother with it again. In this day in age the mulligan penalty and land system feel woefully outdated. And the game is as complex as ever, and it felt very difficult to keep track of synergies/strategies.
Runeterra truly is combining the best from Magic and Hearthstone. I've played about 5 hours today, and the game gets so much right. I'm really starting to love the alternating card-playing. At first it always felt best to slam a minion (ally?) because they're not affected by summoning sickness. But many times you're giving your opponent a chance to respond to your current board that you didn't need to give them before getting in a good attack. There's some great depth here, and everything from the spell mana pool to the spell stack to combat to various minion abilities is just fantastic. There are some powerful synergies, but so far at least nothing has felt unfair, and I've been able to follow what my opponent's been doing even with cards I've never seen before. That's huge.
The UI is not as good as Hearthstone, but what is. This is the next best one I've dealt with from a handful of other games I've tried (MTG:A, ESL, Shadowverse). It's hard to pinpoint exactly what needs to improve. Yes, the collection manager, but I don't have great suggestions. Yes, the board - I sometimes have a hard time seeing cards in my own hand and especially my opponents when they have known cards. Yes, the rewards system, which is confusing albeit generous from what I can tell. And the one thing that every other Hearthstone imitator has struggled with is unique and instantly-identifiable card art. I really agree with the above that it's hard to tell regions apart. It's sometimes hard to tell Champions apart from normal units. The spells do look very unique. Some of this will take some getting used to, but I wonder if there are improvements that can be made.
So far though, I think this is the best Hearthstone competitor to come along in forever. I look forward to playing it more.
Meta-defining in the sense that every single deck outside of aggro will run this. Even some zoo decks will run this. Every control deck, dragons or not, will run this.
This card is going to show up in all kinds of mid-range, aggro, and zoo decks. What an insane card. Take a value-trade and then summon 2 5/4 rush minions for 5-mana. Absolutely nuts.
Yes, I would play a Shadowbolt that draws a card in the class with the worst card draw. Potentially interesting combos with Dire Frenzy? Just a super strong card completely on its own aside from the beast synergy.
I can't believe this isn't restricted to targeting minions. 7 damage to the face, every time.
Hey guys, just got back from the future, and I only had time to watch one YouTube video. I saw MarkMcKz absolutely destroy his opponent with an OTK enabled by playing six of these in one game. Completely busted. Will definitely be meta.
They kept this in the Core set.
Wow, I appreciate everyone's optimism in the comments, but this card is pure garbage that will never see play. 4 stars for creativity.
I think it could see play in a mediocre Druid deck. Survival of the Fittest for 10 mana. Next turn fill your board with 8/8 taunts. That's not a great play because it'd be better to have SotF hit medium things for consistency, playability, and value, but it would be a fun as hell closer.
Can't wait for the clips of people failing to play around Counterspell.
1) In regards to the stats: many variants of those decks are running well above 60% on HSReplay. The aggregate variants across all ranks is what drops them below 60%. I don't have premium HSReplay so admittedly my analysis is limited. I read the VS report at your suggestion, and while the meta is generally healthy (I wasn't trying to be negative about the state of the game in my OP), I think there are clear issues.
2) Sinister Strike IS a bad card. It's also run in many variants of rogue that are performing above 63% on HSReplay. That's a testament to the power of Secret Passage. It's why it's Viscious Syndicate's metabreaker of the week, and the most played deck at competitive ranks. There are a lot of lethal outs for Rogue - maybe I shouldn't have focused on Sinister Strike. Secret Passage is broken on its face, and there's only one thing really keeping it in check.
3) What does best against Rogue? Even more aggressive Hunter and Demon Hunter decks that are powered by Voracious Reader. If you nerf Secret Passage you can't ignore the even more aggressive decks.
4) Despite the hyper-aggression, Libram Paladin is incredibly versatile and dominant, even if it doesn't quite top the chart at the highest levels of competition. What makes it unfair? I looked at Argent Braggart, First Day of School, and High Abbess Alura, but ultimately the problem is that Libram of Wisdom is over-powered at every stage of the game. I'm open to a different suggestion of how to deal with that, but I couldn't think of a better one.
5) Basically, if you agree that Voracious Reader should be nerfed as a versatile neutral that's pushing zoo/aggro too far over the top, you also have to look at keeping Rogue and Paladin in check. I thought the nerfs I suggested, only three cards in total, were pretty conservative, and don't kill their utility.
Context - We're three weeks into the Scholomance Acadamey Expansion. Kael'thas Sunstrider, who was broken before Day 1, has been fixed, but no other nerfs for Standard have been introduced (Mindrender Illucia was mostly for Wild).
HSReplay has the Tier 1 decks as Libram Paladin (58.1%), Face Hunter (57.4%), Stealth Rogue (57.2%), and Aggro Demon Hunter (55.9%).
My suggested nerfs:
Libram of Wisdom - Change the cost from 2-mana to 3-mana. This wouldn't affect the end-game power of the card or of Lady Liadrin, but would make for a much fairer early-game and mid-game. At first I speculated on changing stats or discounts of Aldor Attendant or Aldor Truthseeker, but their stats and effects are generally balanced for the other Librams. You want wisdom? You need to study harder and longer first.
Voracious Reader - Change the cost from 2-mana to 3-mana. There's nothing to over-think here. Make the card slower. Make it harder for a player to empty their hand on the same turn they play this. Make it come down later when the opponent can more easily deal with it. We all knew this card was too good as printed, and it's overdue for a nerf.
Secret Passage - Change "Replace your hand with 5 cards from your deck" to "3 cards." The Soularium was an excellent legendary spell. This draws more, is more consistent, and has no down-side. It's barely RNG to use this card to search for a game-winning Eviscerate or Sinister Strike. Making this change won't alter a single deck-list in current Rogue decks, but would hopefully shave a few tenths of a percent off their win-rate.
I think Hearthstone is better than ever, Team 5 is doing a great job, and I don't typically think about Blizzard, let alone complain about them. However, I think news like this is important, and has broader implications for the video game industry and society.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-03/blizzard-workers-share-salaries-in-revolt-over-wage-disparities
I've worked for large institutions and small non-profits, and I've witnessed unfair wage discrepancies at both. Each time I've been the one earning more, and I volunteered my salary and benefits info with other co-workers who went on to advocate for the pay they deserved (without outing me). It's a good thing to get in the habit of doing. You might found out you should be making more, or you might help someone else. I've never been part of a company-wide revolt, but I've got another 28 years to accomplish that before social security kicks in.
Does anyone know if this is affected by spell damage? Either with more missiles or by upgrading (downgrading?) the devolution?
If that's how it works then it's a potential Time Warp. Take another turn.
Alec Dawson confirmed on Twitter that the discounts only accrue while it's in your hand. Must have run out of space for the text.
https://twitter.com/GW_Alec/status/1288611888851386368
I have no regrets crafting Kayn Sunfury because that card is 100% getting nerfed. My opponent had a weapon, no board, and did 15 to my face, bypassing three taunts. It just seems to violate the rule of interactivity, far worse than even something like the original Patches. He was aided by mana discounts from Skull of Guldan - another card that seems OP. It's not that difficult to be patient on Outcast in general let alone for a control card. Nerf Kayn to 6-mana and nerf Skull of Guldan's Outcast to a 2-mana discount per card (which is still great!).
The pinging cards also seem over-statted, but I haven't played with/against them enough yet to have a suggestion.
All the primes are bonkers. The three that I want to play with the most.
Need clarification on Excess Mana, the least explained mechanic in the game.
I haven't found it to be oppressive, and it's often a dead card in my hand. I'd be curious to hear about its stats before taking action. I do like someone's point that it bends the meta away from control. I think one thing that would help is clarification on which kinds of ally abilities show up in the spell queue and can be countered. Some "Play" effects go in the queue and others don't. I think a nice way to balance the card would be to give it "refill your opponent's spell mana." That way it punishes big ally "Play" effects (but they still get the big ally), but isn't as devastating when they got nothing off their big spell.
I'm going to treat this as a first impressions thread. My background is that I played MTG from Revised/Dark until Weatherlight. I stopped playing in 1997 and didn't realize that it was more popular than ever until 2010 (I am old). I've played Hearthstone since shortly before GvG, and I've gone from being a pure F2P player to paying for most pre-orders (I am old, but I have income!)
I tried MTG: Arena last year. I got mana screwed half a dozen times and straight up didn't bother with it again. In this day in age the mulligan penalty and land system feel woefully outdated. And the game is as complex as ever, and it felt very difficult to keep track of synergies/strategies.
Runeterra truly is combining the best from Magic and Hearthstone. I've played about 5 hours today, and the game gets so much right. I'm really starting to love the alternating card-playing. At first it always felt best to slam a minion (ally?) because they're not affected by summoning sickness. But many times you're giving your opponent a chance to respond to your current board that you didn't need to give them before getting in a good attack. There's some great depth here, and everything from the spell mana pool to the spell stack to combat to various minion abilities is just fantastic. There are some powerful synergies, but so far at least nothing has felt unfair, and I've been able to follow what my opponent's been doing even with cards I've never seen before. That's huge.
The UI is not as good as Hearthstone, but what is. This is the next best one I've dealt with from a handful of other games I've tried (MTG:A, ESL, Shadowverse). It's hard to pinpoint exactly what needs to improve. Yes, the collection manager, but I don't have great suggestions. Yes, the board - I sometimes have a hard time seeing cards in my own hand and especially my opponents when they have known cards. Yes, the rewards system, which is confusing albeit generous from what I can tell. And the one thing that every other Hearthstone imitator has struggled with is unique and instantly-identifiable card art. I really agree with the above that it's hard to tell regions apart. It's sometimes hard to tell Champions apart from normal units. The spells do look very unique. Some of this will take some getting used to, but I wonder if there are improvements that can be made.
So far though, I think this is the best Hearthstone competitor to come along in forever. I look forward to playing it more.
Meta-defining in the sense that every single deck outside of aggro will run this. Even some zoo decks will run this. Every control deck, dragons or not, will run this.
This card is going to show up in all kinds of mid-range, aggro, and zoo decks. What an insane card. Take a value-trade and then summon 2 5/4 rush minions for 5-mana. Absolutely nuts.
Yes, I would play a Shadowbolt that draws a card in the class with the worst card draw. Potentially interesting combos with Dire Frenzy? Just a super strong card completely on its own aside from the beast synergy.