Since Riot was willing to say that, they must already have enough data on him to know he should get some buffs. They don't need more data on him to decide to make those changes. Plus, his play rate will go down anyway with the new expansion coming out and players wanting to use the cards.
Besides, I doubt many people at all will change what they play based on this. If someone already enjoyed Lee Sin enough to want to make a deck around him, I doubt a vague patch note would change their mind.
The "few other things" in 1.8 is most likely the next big expansion for LoR. Riot said months ago that the next expansion was scheduled for August and they would have said something here if it was delayed. Also, they've made significant balance changes in alternating patches since open beta. 1.7 doesn't have any balance changes, so 1.8 would be due for those changes, but it says it won't be a full-fledged balance patch. It doesn't make sense that they would plan to leave that out unless the patch included something else big.
So it's safe to say we'll be getting the next expansion in three weeks, which will be the biggest one yet. A full new region with 6 champions and one new champion for each existing region, along with a bunch of followers and spells to go along with them.
I think the average player is more likely to enjoy random effects than a pro is.
Sure, maybe when they start playing, but how long does that last? Eventually, you've seen RNG swing in favor of you and against you more times than you can count and it starts to feel hollow.
Also, I disagree that playing a bunch of random cards is fun. How many times has the weekly tavern brawl been RNG multiplied by RNG? 'You get a deck of random cards. When you play them, something random happens.'
I didn't say all or even a majority of matches are determined by RNG. I said far too many are. It's may only be ~20% determined by RNG, but that's gotten to be too much for me now. That figure might not be a problem in the pros because tournaments are based on best of 3 or best of 5, but when I'm just playing 1-2 games on my lunch break, 20% is too common.
Plus, my complaint isn't so much the number of games that are determined by RNG. It's the new cards that encourage players to rely on RNG, like the new casino mage prime card. How would a pro bend that RNG to their will? Maybe they can't and the card turns out to be too inconsistent to be used in serious decks, but how would that be a good thing? It would suck for mage players if one of their two legendary cards this expansion was unplayable because of inconsistency. Blizzard could have made another fun, playable card in that slot, but they had to stick with their RNG focus.
Even if Blizzard eliminates all RNG mechanics from cards, their limit of 1 legendary per deck will always be a significant RNG factor. Many legendary cards encourage some fun decks built around them, but how consistent are they if they're near the bottom of your deck? Some types of legendary cards got around that, like quests, but most leave you to find that 1 card in your deck. That may not be a huge problem in HS, but it's another reason I enjoy LoR much more because you can put 3 of any card in your deck.
I'm not talking about pro play. I'm talking about the average player who wants to have fun with whatever deck they made, but they face many players who don't care about fine tuning a deck and instead build decks around getting high rolls. How do you manage the RNG of playing against an evolve shaman or casino mage? They may not be consistent enough for the pros, but they are annoying enough to get tired of playing against as an average player.
I started playing HS during it's beta and I never missed an expansion until now. I saw many people complaining about the RNG and I would have responded to them with a lot of what you're saying. I guess the mechanic just got old for me.
I'm not saying all RNG is bad. I think the worst examples are stuff like the Mage 'cast a bunch of random spells' effects. There's no way to play around those or even make the best of them when you play them. Evolve Shaman is another one. That archetype, which is still getting more cards, pushed RNG beyond a little spice to help games feel fresh into one of the main mechanics of a deck.
I know it's a core mechanic of the game and I don't expect that to change. That's why my post wasn't directed at developers who might be reading these comments. It's directed at the players who might also be getting tired of the RNG.
I haven't played much HS since Runeterra came out and that stream did very little to bring me back. The prevalence of RNG in so many cards just isn't fun any more. A little RNG is fine, but when it's one of the main mechanics, far too many matches are determined by dice rolls. It's hard to take the game seriously when so much is left to chance, and there's no way to play the decks I want unless I put a ton of time into playing or put a ton of money into the game, so I might as well not play at all.
If RNG is starting to bug you as well, it's worth giving Legends of Runeterra a chance. You can easily get a ton of cards for free every week and the dynamic turn system offers a lot of strategy options.
Think of a level 10 vault as the minimum you should hit every week and everything else beyond that as just an optional bonus. It really is optional unless you have a pathological need to get 3 of every card in the game. I've been playing casually since the beta opened. I hit lvl 10 every week, but I think I got to 13 only once. I may be "behind" other players, but I have almost every card I want except for a few champion cards, plus a bunch of wild cards saved up. If I had pushed myself to hit 13 each week, I would have a handful more wild cards and a few more champion cards that probably wouldn't get used much.
So raising the limit doesn't really change much. If you have time to play beyond lvl 10 and want to, then go for it. We should be playing because we enjoy the game, not because we feel an obligation to hit a milestone each week. Don't turn the game into a job for yourself. Raising the limit doesn't change that.
Have you found a deck you enjoy playing? The pace of the matches can vary a lot depending on what type of deck you play. Plus, with the way you can combine regions and the fact that they will be adding more regions and expanding the existing regions, the deck building possibilities are crazy. So even if you haven't found a deck that fits your play style yet, you're bound to find one eventually.
They will have to make huge changes to keep up with Legends of Runeterra. It's so refreshing playing a card game monitized on buying cosmetics instead of random card packs. You can spend some money on cards, but you get wild cards that let you craft whatever you want instead of getting a bunch of random packs. Even if you don't spend money, you unlock cards at a good pace by playing and get a ton more cards for free every week.
It's also so nice to play a card game that's doesn't rely on RNG so much.
I haven't played HS for about a week now since I started Legends of Runeterra. I might check out the occasional Tavern Brawl, but not when they're almost 100% RNG. LoR is a lot of fun and very generous about free cards and free runs in the draft mode.
I played HS from the beta until a few weeks ago when Legends of Runeterra came out and I'm so glad I switched. RNG can make games fun, but HS takes it way too far. RNG should be like a little spice making matches different, not one of the main factors that determines how a match goes. I know some decks have little to no RNG, but far too many have it as one of their primary resources.
One of my favorite changes going from HS to LoR is that you can include 3 of any card in your deck. So no more highlander decks. No more hoping to draw that one card in your deck you need.
This may be a bit off topic, but a meta like this makes Legends of Runeterra look better and better. I can't wait for the beta in a few weeks hopefully. I'm sure Blizzard will deal some hefty nerfs to Galakrond Shaman, but that would still leave Quest Shaman to deal with. LoR will certainly have it's own balance issues, but at least they will be new. HS expansions lately have felt like slightly new twists on mechanics they've had for years. Is anyone else ready to move on?
How is it not OP? How can anyone deal with four rushing 8/8s without a total board wipe like Twisting Nether? If the only answer to that is hyper aggro to kill them before turn 7, then it's OP.
I played it for a bit, but the learning curve was a bit too much. I had a few fun games until someone beat me by playing a minion that seemed crazy OP. I think it was something like a 12/12, had 'can't be targeted by spells' and didn't even cost max mana to play. I'm sure experienced players could mention multiple ways to counter that, but I couldn't think of anything from the limited cards I had to start with. If it was the only CCG online at the time, I probably would have kept playing to figure it out, but I was already invested in HS. New CCGs have a lot of competition, so they need to have a compelling hook and a good experience for new players. If there are cards that can crush a player like that, the game should do a better job of communicating how to deal with it.
But now I'm more burned out on HS and really looking forward to Legends of Runeterra. I know there are some cards that look OP, but the dynamic turn system and blockers sound like really clever ways to counter powerful cards. I really hope people give it a chance. Plus, Riot seems to be counting on cosmetics to make money instead of selling card packs, which sounds like a refreshing change for the CCG.
I don't get it. Youtube is my only option right now. There was a thumbnail of the stream 30+ minutes before it started that let me set a reminder, which I did, but now I can't find anything. Why wouldn't Hearthstone's youtube channel be blasting this out right now? I can find videos of past reveal streams, but now this one. What's the point of posting them at all if they don't stream the one going on right now? It's hard to imagine them being this incompetent, so it seems like just shockingly bad policy on their part.
Since Riot was willing to say that, they must already have enough data on him to know he should get some buffs. They don't need more data on him to decide to make those changes. Plus, his play rate will go down anyway with the new expansion coming out and players wanting to use the cards.
Besides, I doubt many people at all will change what they play based on this. If someone already enjoyed Lee Sin enough to want to make a deck around him, I doubt a vague patch note would change their mind.
The "few other things" in 1.8 is most likely the next big expansion for LoR. Riot said months ago that the next expansion was scheduled for August and they would have said something here if it was delayed. Also, they've made significant balance changes in alternating patches since open beta. 1.7 doesn't have any balance changes, so 1.8 would be due for those changes, but it says it won't be a full-fledged balance patch. It doesn't make sense that they would plan to leave that out unless the patch included something else big.
So it's safe to say we'll be getting the next expansion in three weeks, which will be the biggest one yet. A full new region with 6 champions and one new champion for each existing region, along with a bunch of followers and spells to go along with them.
What about a Shadow Souls? The video looks exactly like the area below Firelink Shrine.
Sure, maybe when they start playing, but how long does that last? Eventually, you've seen RNG swing in favor of you and against you more times than you can count and it starts to feel hollow.
Also, I disagree that playing a bunch of random cards is fun. How many times has the weekly tavern brawl been RNG multiplied by RNG? 'You get a deck of random cards. When you play them, something random happens.'
I didn't say all or even a majority of matches are determined by RNG. I said far too many are. It's may only be ~20% determined by RNG, but that's gotten to be too much for me now. That figure might not be a problem in the pros because tournaments are based on best of 3 or best of 5, but when I'm just playing 1-2 games on my lunch break, 20% is too common.
Plus, my complaint isn't so much the number of games that are determined by RNG. It's the new cards that encourage players to rely on RNG, like the new casino mage prime card. How would a pro bend that RNG to their will? Maybe they can't and the card turns out to be too inconsistent to be used in serious decks, but how would that be a good thing? It would suck for mage players if one of their two legendary cards this expansion was unplayable because of inconsistency. Blizzard could have made another fun, playable card in that slot, but they had to stick with their RNG focus.
Even if Blizzard eliminates all RNG mechanics from cards, their limit of 1 legendary per deck will always be a significant RNG factor. Many legendary cards encourage some fun decks built around them, but how consistent are they if they're near the bottom of your deck? Some types of legendary cards got around that, like quests, but most leave you to find that 1 card in your deck. That may not be a huge problem in HS, but it's another reason I enjoy LoR much more because you can put 3 of any card in your deck.
I'm not talking about pro play. I'm talking about the average player who wants to have fun with whatever deck they made, but they face many players who don't care about fine tuning a deck and instead build decks around getting high rolls. How do you manage the RNG of playing against an evolve shaman or casino mage? They may not be consistent enough for the pros, but they are annoying enough to get tired of playing against as an average player.
I started playing HS during it's beta and I never missed an expansion until now. I saw many people complaining about the RNG and I would have responded to them with a lot of what you're saying. I guess the mechanic just got old for me.
I'm not saying all RNG is bad. I think the worst examples are stuff like the Mage 'cast a bunch of random spells' effects. There's no way to play around those or even make the best of them when you play them. Evolve Shaman is another one. That archetype, which is still getting more cards, pushed RNG beyond a little spice to help games feel fresh into one of the main mechanics of a deck.
I know it's a core mechanic of the game and I don't expect that to change. That's why my post wasn't directed at developers who might be reading these comments. It's directed at the players who might also be getting tired of the RNG.
I haven't played much HS since Runeterra came out and that stream did very little to bring me back. The prevalence of RNG in so many cards just isn't fun any more. A little RNG is fine, but when it's one of the main mechanics, far too many matches are determined by dice rolls. It's hard to take the game seriously when so much is left to chance, and there's no way to play the decks I want unless I put a ton of time into playing or put a ton of money into the game, so I might as well not play at all.
If RNG is starting to bug you as well, it's worth giving Legends of Runeterra a chance. You can easily get a ton of cards for free every week and the dynamic turn system offers a lot of strategy options.
Think of a level 10 vault as the minimum you should hit every week and everything else beyond that as just an optional bonus. It really is optional unless you have a pathological need to get 3 of every card in the game. I've been playing casually since the beta opened. I hit lvl 10 every week, but I think I got to 13 only once. I may be "behind" other players, but I have almost every card I want except for a few champion cards, plus a bunch of wild cards saved up. If I had pushed myself to hit 13 each week, I would have a handful more wild cards and a few more champion cards that probably wouldn't get used much.
So raising the limit doesn't really change much. If you have time to play beyond lvl 10 and want to, then go for it. We should be playing because we enjoy the game, not because we feel an obligation to hit a milestone each week. Don't turn the game into a job for yourself. Raising the limit doesn't change that.
Have you found a deck you enjoy playing? The pace of the matches can vary a lot depending on what type of deck you play. Plus, with the way you can combine regions and the fact that they will be adding more regions and expanding the existing regions, the deck building possibilities are crazy. So even if you haven't found a deck that fits your play style yet, you're bound to find one eventually.
They will have to make huge changes to keep up with Legends of Runeterra. It's so refreshing playing a card game monitized on buying cosmetics instead of random card packs. You can spend some money on cards, but you get wild cards that let you craft whatever you want instead of getting a bunch of random packs. Even if you don't spend money, you unlock cards at a good pace by playing and get a ton more cards for free every week.
It's also so nice to play a card game that's doesn't rely on RNG so much.
I haven't played HS for about a week now since I started Legends of Runeterra. I might check out the occasional Tavern Brawl, but not when they're almost 100% RNG. LoR is a lot of fun and very generous about free cards and free runs in the draft mode.
I played HS from the beta until a few weeks ago when Legends of Runeterra came out and I'm so glad I switched. RNG can make games fun, but HS takes it way too far. RNG should be like a little spice making matches different, not one of the main factors that determines how a match goes. I know some decks have little to no RNG, but far too many have it as one of their primary resources.
One of my favorite changes going from HS to LoR is that you can include 3 of any card in your deck. So no more highlander decks. No more hoping to draw that one card in your deck you need.
This may be a bit off topic, but a meta like this makes Legends of Runeterra look better and better. I can't wait for the beta in a few weeks hopefully. I'm sure Blizzard will deal some hefty nerfs to Galakrond Shaman, but that would still leave Quest Shaman to deal with. LoR will certainly have it's own balance issues, but at least they will be new. HS expansions lately have felt like slightly new twists on mechanics they've had for years. Is anyone else ready to move on?
How is it not OP? How can anyone deal with four rushing 8/8s without a total board wipe like Twisting Nether? If the only answer to that is hyper aggro to kill them before turn 7, then it's OP.
I played it for a bit, but the learning curve was a bit too much. I had a few fun games until someone beat me by playing a minion that seemed crazy OP. I think it was something like a 12/12, had 'can't be targeted by spells' and didn't even cost max mana to play. I'm sure experienced players could mention multiple ways to counter that, but I couldn't think of anything from the limited cards I had to start with. If it was the only CCG online at the time, I probably would have kept playing to figure it out, but I was already invested in HS. New CCGs have a lot of competition, so they need to have a compelling hook and a good experience for new players. If there are cards that can crush a player like that, the game should do a better job of communicating how to deal with it.
But now I'm more burned out on HS and really looking forward to Legends of Runeterra. I know there are some cards that look OP, but the dynamic turn system and blockers sound like really clever ways to counter powerful cards. I really hope people give it a chance. Plus, Riot seems to be counting on cosmetics to make money instead of selling card packs, which sounds like a refreshing change for the CCG.
Is anyone watching this on youtube?
I don't get it. Youtube is my only option right now. There was a thumbnail of the stream 30+ minutes before it started that let me set a reminder, which I did, but now I can't find anything. Why wouldn't Hearthstone's youtube channel be blasting this out right now? I can find videos of past reveal streams, but now this one. What's the point of posting them at all if they don't stream the one going on right now? It's hard to imagine them being this incompetent, so it seems like just shockingly bad policy on their part.
Can someone post a link to the youtube stream? It's shocking how hard it is to find just by searching.