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Don't get me wrong, I love Tirion. Playing minions like Boogeymonster is silly but it feels great when they work out.
I've played 12 games with Tirion and got 11 wins. One loss might be the first game, so I'm on a 11-win streak, which is amazing.
1 mana gain 2/2, 3/3 in the early game and then going up to 7/7, is it too powerful? What is your experience with him so far?
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Don't get me wrong, I love Tirion. Playing minions like Boogeymonster is silly but it feels great when they work out.
I've played 12 games with Tirion and got 11 wins. One loss might be the first game, so I'm on a 11-win streak, which is amazing.
1 mana gain 2/2, 3/3 in the early game and then going up to 7/7, is it too powerful? What is your experience with him so far?
THe only thing about Tirion I have a problem with is when he goes demons you'll never killl his Soul Juggler and then he just wins
I'm on the fence. Like you, I've won almost every single game where I've picked Tirion. This probably suggests that it's out of balance. But I think it's close. I wonder if making it 2-mana is fair, considering that neutrals are far more common and varied than Demons (Jaraxxus's buff).
Also, unlike Jaraxxus, the minions you play aren't costing you LP.
Like the only "downside" is that some of your best minions come from TT1 and TT2...which isn't really that bad considering the buffs. But I wonder if the buff cost is increased if it becomes too strong a nerf to those minions.
It also struggles if it doesn't get Rivendare or Demons.
Quote From RandomGuy I'm on the fence. Like you, I've won almost every single game where I've picked Tirion. This probably suggests that it's out of balance. But I think it's close. I wonder if making it 2-mana is fair, considering that neutrals are far more common and varied than Demons (Jaraxxus's buff).
Also, unlike Jaraxxus, the minions you play aren't costing you LP.
Like the only "downside" is that some of your best minions come from TT1 and TT2...which isn't really that bad considering the buffs. But I wonder if the buff cost is increased if it becomes too strong a nerf to those minions.It also struggles if it doesn't get Rivendare or Demons.
They will probably nerf him, 2 mana HP seems like a logical candidate, or maybe change the HP to give +1 attack or health. Redesigning it would be the last choice, imo.
Yeah sometimes you don't get Demons or Rivendare, but the minions scale up so well throughout the game, you get the victory anyways. Golden Selfless Hero and Zapp are my MVPs. Bolvar is also one of my favourites.
Quote From bardozan Quote From RandomGuy I'm on the fence. Like you, I've won almost every single game where I've picked Tirion. This probably suggests that it's out of balance. But I think it's close. I wonder if making it 2-mana is fair, considering that neutrals are far more common and varied than Demons (Jaraxxus's buff).
Also, unlike Jaraxxus, the minions you play aren't costing you LP.
Like the only "downside" is that some of your best minions come from TT1 and TT2...which isn't really that bad considering the buffs. But I wonder if the buff cost is increased if it becomes too strong a nerf to those minions.It also struggles if it doesn't get Rivendare or Demons.
They will probably nerf him, 2 mana HP seems like a logical candidate, or maybe change the HP to give +1 attack or health. Redesigning it would be the last choice, imo.
Yeah sometimes you don't get Demons or Rivendare, but the minions scale up so well throughout the game, you get the victory anyways. Golden Selfless Hero and Zapp are my MVPs. Bolvar is also one of my favourites.
at the same time they still haven't nerfed Cobalt Guardian and Spawn of N'Zoth despite those things constantly running away with games if they appear early enough.
Rafaam and Edwin are also still able to snowball games consistently and with little option to fight them and A.F.K. is still basically a guaranteed top 4 unless you get really bad rolls
Some heroes are always going to be better than others, and at the very least Tirion brings something different to the table instead of just hoping to stack tribals and hope your opponent's are weaker.
Yeah these are solid points. One can't make a perfectly balanced game, but also we kinda need those powerful cards and heroes to keep the game exciting. I'm happy with the way the game turned out.
The game hasn't given me him as an option to play as still :(
Haven't played HSBG in quite some time, but looking at it purely from a design perspective:
Tirion is definitely overtuned in a vacuum. Sure, he's fixed as requiring primarily minions with no type, but equally, that's not all that big of a problem when the reward is 1 gold for a global +1/+1. Amalgams are gone, Murlocs have been nerfed, so you've got a lot less in the way of Poisonous to deal with the problem of persistent stat inflation. However, that's wholly fixable in theory with some basic numbers manipulation.
The problem outside that vacuum is that Tirion's design doesn't mesh with the rest of the current Hero offering, making balancing solely by numbers impossible. What I mean is that Tirion not only has access to an entire tribe of his own (if you want to define 'tribeless' as a tribe), but he also has access to other tribes too - both Demons and Beasts have typeless force-multipliers which are balanced solely by their own vulnerability. He effectively gets to pick and choose from several different Tribes, with one as a fallback that no other hero in the game will try to collect if the other game-plans aren't looking optimal.
That's a problem you can't fix with numbers outside of just nerfing him out of viability altogether. The only real solution is to introduce more heroes that are going to compete for the same resources, or more powerful cards for the Tribes (which is a whole other problem altogether).
I would add that this is a problem you're inevitably going to run into when designing for a game as simplistic as HSBG. They really didn't leave themselves much room to work with, and outside of major additions - like more tribes - you're very quickly going to run out of interesting things to do that don't cause some crack in the functionality somewhere.
Tyrone wouldn't be nearly as powerful relative to other heroes if there were minions that could buff neutrals (besides Defender of Argus). Right now neutrals are essentially balanced around the fact that they fall off hard toward late game and Tyrion is the one exception to that rule. (And Edwin, and Daryl and...) Most heroes cannot scale a tribeless minion, so outside of key enablers like Brann, Lightfang, Baron, Soul Juggler, etc. they don't see much play.
If everyone can buff their neutrals then it's no longer as powerful of an ability: other players have access to it and now they're also competing for your picks. That said it probably should cost 2 gold because it's a board-wide buff that's incredibly easy to set up. Like I said, the tribeless minions are overpowered relative to their level to compensate for the downside of lacking a tribe, but with Tyrion that's a feature, not a bug.
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