Hearthstone
Reborn: good or bad
Submitted 5 years, 5 months ago by
Zwane
The reborn keyword gives a minion a deathrattle/resurrect (similar to the Paladin secret) with one health remaining. This thread is to discuss this new keyword. What do you think of it? I do not see it as anything spectacular new since you could already have the same effect as a deathrattle for instance.
Saves some ink on the card, that's true, but a resurrect with one health remaining is also not new and was already known as a Paladin secret.
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The reborn keyword gives a minion a deathrattle/resurrect (similar to the Paladin secret) with one health remaining. This thread is to discuss this new keyword. What do you think of it? I do not see it as anything spectacular new since you could already have the same effect as a deathrattle for instance.
Saves some ink on the card, that's true, but a resurrect with one health remaining is also not new and was already known as a Paladin secret.
I think it's pretty clearly good. It might be better than that.
Value is tacked on to any card with Reborn. If it has extra keywords like Charge/Rush/Divine Shield/Deathrattle, the value really piles up.
not just the secret
Desperate Stand
But yes it's kind of new.
Like echo was new. There will be cards which interacts with reborn (Give your reborn minions +1 attack, After your minions lose reborn(dies), this gains +1 attack) etc.
It opens a new path on design space, so it is new. It doesn't mean that it isn't a new keyword if it is already in the game as a mechanic.
And for being good or bad, yes it is kind of a good keyword. It has its own value on a vanilla minion + like @RandomGuys said, sticking with extra keywords makes it even better.
I expect to see at least one Taunt/Reborn one Divine Shield/Reborn minion.
Unpopular Opinion Incarnate
Many keywords aren't anything new. Charged Devilsaur had rush before the keyword became a thing. Unstable Evolution was an echo card before that keyword was introduced, etc...
Whether the keyword will be interesting depends largely on the cards they will print for it. The warrior one so far looks decent.
Indeed i think it's pretty boring. Almost unnecessary (i don't like keywords bound to one expansion and then forgotten).
But at least it doesn't sound like a dangerous dangerous mechanic, since it is bound to the keyword.
Nothing exceptionally new or interesting, but is just another keyword that will be on 5-8 cards and never seen again so it's ok-ish.
I'll be worried if there will be a card that actually gives Reborn to a minion, because that could slip out of hand.
"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the world, and loses his own soul?"
It isn't something new or extreme, but I think it's fine like this, we need to see all the cards with the keyword before judging. Restless Mummy seems quite strong because of rush, other things probably will not be so powerful but could be useful in a lot of token-aggro deck if the cost is low
Not everyone is mother tongue! Roar.
That was my first thought as well, and it ties in with what I perceive to be a trend with Blizzard/team 5 of a severe lack of creativity & innovation ever since Boomsday. Both the settings of the sets and the mechanics introduced have seen an inordinate amount of recycling (spellstones->schemes, echo->twinspell, deathrattle->reborn). It really does feel like whoever wasn't fired in the latest round of layoffs is having to make do with the discarded scraps of previous set designs instead of having generated new ideas to work with. I mean they're trying to pass off "board clears" as a mechanic in the next set FFS!
I genuinely hope I'm wrong to be pessimistic, but it paints a bleak picture.
Charged Devilsaur is clearly what the rush keyword is based on, but they don't work the same. The devilsaur still goes face if you summon it, rush minions don't. Rush took an existing concept and simplified & improved it.
Unstable Evolution could be reprinted as an echo card, as it is functionally identical to that keyword (and likely the inspiration for it). Doing so word reduce the wordcount on UE and make it more intuitive. By contrast, reborn is a keyword that already exists in the game as another keyword: deathrattle.
Consider the Adapt mechanic from un'goro: they could have given "Deathrattle: summon 2 1/1 plant tokens" it's own unique keyword to save words and to make it seem more special, but they didn't, because that functionality was covered by deathrattle.
To me, reborn is a clear example of forcing a design to be different for the sake of being different. Whereas Adapt takes fairly plain, vanilla buffs and turns them into a cool new mechanic, Reborn takes an old mechanic, puts on a gallon of make up and desperately hopes no one notices that it's still plain ole' deathrattle.
Well it would make it easier/possible to have a reborn minion with deathrattle (which would be really strong)
I expect to see a "give a friendly minion reborn" card be it spell or not. I think it is pretty good and almost an auto include in any tempo deck. So much flexibility
It’s a cool keyword but I worry how much use it’ll have. Minions with 1 health rarely live long enough to matter. It’s also weird to have another keyword that deals with death, but I guess MTG has had a hundred of those so far so who knows
I make bad custom Hearthstone cards sometimes.
I think it will be very deck-specific AND depend heavily on the Reborn cards. You'll need to have both to be effective - basically I'm betting it's another Echo that has maybe 2 or 3 cards that see regular play, 1 or 2 that are deck-situational, and the other dozen are never heard from again after launch.
The mummy they revealed probably won't see much play for example because Rush Warrior isn't really a thing. Now if there are Reborn mechs I can see that being good for Mech Warrior/Hunter since it will leave a body to magnetize on after the first death and retain board presence. I could also see it being very good for Res Priest if they get minions that fit into the Res pool effectively. Ditto for Mage if they get heavy targets for Conjurer's Calling. Mainly, however, I'm really hoping for some big neutral/Warlock minions as this keyword seems like exactly what would help push Shuffle Warlock out of meme status. Fel Lord Betrug pulling out Reborn minions who can attack and be retained on-board (more or less) after drawing would definitely help the archetype.
It seems good. I am interested to see what other cards they use it on. I wonder if we would see an minions with both Reborn and Deathrattle. If not there are still ways to give a Reborn minion Deathrattle .
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Restless mummy is a more flexible Militia Commander, a card which is in virtually every warrior list out there. The vast majority of warriors run a 5 card rush package of Zilliax, 2 Militia commander 2 Town Crier.
Just because people aren't playing that godawful warrior loa or Akali the Rhino doesn't mean Warriors won't be all over Restless Mummy, that's just silly.
I dont know how i feel about it yet. It obviously has potential to be very powerful. Also, since they made this ability into a keyword (already exists as deathrattle), this makes me think they want to put some more wordy texts on Reborn minions, which can be dangerous. Will have to wait and see.
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Maybe my local meta is different than yours because I RARELY see any Warriors that aren't 1) Bomb or 2) Pure Mech. The mummy fits in neither and - I would argue though just my opinion - the Reborn doesn't do enough to make it any better than Rabid Worgen which sees no play despite having +1 HP and costing -1 mana.
Do any of those bomb warriors not run Militia Commander? Exactly.
Mummy is strictly better than raging worgen because it's 6 damage for 4 mana rather than 3 for 3. The reborn mummy also rushes. It's a targeted Multishot with upsides.
I wouldn't worry about that. There almost certainly will be a card like that, but it probably won't be that strong. Desperate Stand saw absolutely zero play, and neither did Corpse Raiser.
A man is lying on the street, some punks chopped off his head
I'm the only one who stops to see if he's dead.
Hmm. Turns out he's dead.
The thing with it being its own keyword instead of a desthrattle, is that this doesnt have the same deathrattle synergies, like cards that trigger them twice etc.
Lemushki - The one and only since the 2006 rebranding.
Charged Devilsaur is the prototype of how rush should work one year before they actually realized how it works.. it's not exactly rush since if the card is cheated out it can go face.
decent? it looks really powerful when the card is coparable to both Zilliax and Militia Commander in terms of removal and stickiness you know it's a powerful card.
@MurlocAggroB those are 2 cards that add a buff to a minion in play those effects mostly don't see play look at Charge in warrior it gives a minion rush(funny how stupid that card is, right?), rush minions are played, that card isn't.
one year before they actually realized how it works ?
C'mon, Icehowl was already there since TGT in 2015 and Charge was there since 2016 with nerfed version (last version) so they "already knew" how it works, they didn't realize it with Charged Devilsaur and they knew charge was a problematic keyword they never denied that.
Charged Devilsaur was not the prototype.
Unpopular Opinion Incarnate
Let's say that if they print a Priest spell "give a friendly minion reborn".... well, I'll be a little worried.
Anything else will be fine.
Charged devilsaur having rush wasn't meant to be taken literally, just some insight on previous cards that already contained future keywords. For the most part. Oh well, should've seen this coming.
Yes, the card looks decent seeing how it's a 4 drop for warrior. Militia Commander has deals 1 less damage but has 3 more health. Health is generally far more important of a stat than attack on minions. Additionally, warrior also has Omega Devastator which it will have to compete with. I don't see control warrior running six 4 drops. Eight if we're talking bomb warrior, because there's no way they're going to omit Wrenchcalibur. So yes, compared to warrior's current 4 drops it is a decent card.
I don't think there will be a spell like that because of Desperate Stand.
If there will be, it needs to be 2 mana or have another effect too like draw a card/restore health/gain armor etc. because it would be meaningless to have something similar as 2 different cards.
They need to add something interesting to "give a minion reborn" card like how [Hearthstone Card (Feracious Howl) Not Found] and Shield Block are mechanically different but does the same thing most of the time.
Ok Deathrattle that summons the minion with 1 health remaining and Reborn are different things like how Charged Devilsaur and Rush are different but well, it will be boring to see that.
Unpopular Opinion Incarnate
They're just making up new keywords for the sake of making up new keywords (and making card text even more inconsistent). If anything this makes the game more confusing for new players
Forgot about Icehowl (that's how bad the card is lol).
I meant that it was there as another "rush" minion before they actually gone for that mechanic although they did want to make that mechanic for a while "healthy charge minions".
Charged Devilsaur is most of the time a rush minion but it's wording makes it a combo piece sometimes.. which was quite important with hunter and priest back then.
@Iwatchyousleep: I think it will replace Militia Commander since it's more flexible, but it might depend on meta I guess.
I see old deathrattles getting nerfed because of the new mechanic, similarly to how old mechs were nerfed for magnetize. That by itself gets me to not like the mechanic.
how so?
Honestly at this point I have no idea. This is T5 we're talking about, that nerfs memes (Raging Worgen Warrior/Shadowboxer & actual tier decks alike). There is no actual predicting how they wreck cards/decks anymore. All they need to do is fabricate a reason to justify a nerf and it will be done. New mechanics are the perfect time to do this (again look at what they did when magnetize became a thing)
I forgot... what did they nerf cause of magnetize?
why would they nerf deathrattle minions?