Scale of Onyxia does way too much.

Scale of Onyxia

A 7 mana deal 14 that you can ramp for and leave extra whelps on board. Which you have two of in your deck

+ Raid Boss Onyxia gives them a 3rd one and they have extra whelp fuel to keep it immune.

It's just a bonkers clear that Druid loses no tempo using because of Ramp.

Nope. Overgrowth and Lightning Bloom does way too much. Druid getting a way to fight the board is good because they aren't allowed to have good Aoe or Single target removal. It's only a problem when you can reliably play it at any point from turn 4 upwards.

Just hold on for another two weeks, it'll all be over soon

True, playing Scale of Onyxia on turn 7 is completely fine. Playing it on turn 4 or 5 is too much.

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

Nope. Overgrowth and Lightning Bloom does way too much. Druid getting a way to fight the board is good because they aren't allowed to have good Aoe or Single target removal. It's only a problem when you can reliably play it at any point from turn 4 upwards.

Just hold on for another two weeks, it'll all be over soon

I'd refine that statement to: it's only a problem because druid has been designed to function well in the absence of any good AoE or single target removal.

It's a specific case of why class identity matters, regardless of how cool it might be for control hunter/rogue to work, for example. When a class is designed to have certain strengths and weaknesses, the effective removal of those weaknesses invariably leads to decks with no reliable counter, and the feeling from opponents that there is nothing they could ever have done (even at a deck building stage). Often it's associated with one class being completely dominant, and we've been there a few times before. I'm not sure that's where we are with druid right now, though the (thankfully brief) overlap of Scale of Onyxia with crazy ramp from the Year of the Phoenix puts it pretty close.

It is OK for class identities can shift over time, but it has to be a slow process with at least 2 HS years between a power card balanced by a class weakness, and a card that shores up that weakness. 

Quote From Alfi

True, playing Scale of Onyxia on turn 7 is completely fine. Playing it on turn 4 or 5 is too much.

Also they can potentially have over 5 copies of it with discover and Moonlit Guidance

Bwahaha. Introducing, 3 mana Spell gain 3 mana crystals next Expansion.

"Exclusive for Druid"

Quote From AngryShuckie

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

Nope. Overgrowth and Lightning Bloom does way too much. Druid getting a way to fight the board is good because they aren't allowed to have good Aoe or Single target removal. It's only a problem when you can reliably play it at any point from turn 4 upwards.

Just hold on for another two weeks, it'll all be over soon

I'd refine that statement to: it's only a problem because druid has been designed to function well in the absence of any good AoE or single target removal.

It's a specific case of why class identity matters, regardless of how cool it might be for control hunter/rogue to work, for example. When a class is designed to have certain strengths and weaknesses, the effective removal of those weaknesses invariably leads to decks with no reliable counter, and the feeling from opponents that there is nothing they could ever have done (even at a deck building stage). Often it's associated with one class being completely dominant, and we've been there a few times before. I'm not sure that's where we are with druid right now, though the (thankfully brief) overlap of Scale of Onyxia with crazy ramp from the Year of the Phoenix puts it pretty close.

It is OK for class identities can shift over time, but it has to be a slow process with at least 2 HS years between a power card balanced by a class weakness, and a card that shores up that weakness. 

On the contrary I feel like this is why class identity is overrated. If Druid wasn't able to deal with wide boards in shape or form while also not being allowed to have viable single-target removal then the entire ramp playstyle would just be doomed. Scale of Onyxia is quite literally a worse flamestrike and is only even enabled because Druid has ramp. The problem is that the amount of effective ramp has reached absurd levels right now and therefore cards that would be balanced in another scenario are now suddenly really nuts.

Overgrowth and Lightning Bloom are the problem here, not the fact that Druid is allowed to fight back from behind.

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

Quote From AngryShuckie

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On the contrary I feel like this is why class identity is overrated. If Druid wasn't able to deal with wide boards in shape or form while also not being allowed to have viable single-target removal then the entire ramp playstyle would just be doomed. Scale of Onyxia is quite literally a worse flamestrike and is only even enabled because Druid has ramp. The problem is that the amount of effective ramp has reached absurd levels right now and therefore cards that would be balanced in another scenario are now suddenly really nuts.

Overgrowth and Lightning Bloom are the problem here, not the fact that Druid is allowed to fight back from behind.

Ramping takes advantage of the fact bigger/more expensive cards do more in fewer turns than smaller/cheaper ones. So ramp functions fine without strong removal when against anything that doesn't kill you fast enough to undercut that advantage. That's been the central aspect of druid's design ever since Overgrowth came out, and typically present beforehand too. Overgrowth has been very highroll-y the entire time, but it dodged nerfs because it didn't lead into a comeback card like Scale of Onyxia, and thus it actually retained the weakness it was designed with. Guardian Animals got nerfed largely because it provided the good removal that Scale of Onyxia is now doing.

We can point fingers at the ramp cards, but they are what makes druid different from other classes, and we aren't seriously going to argue druid shouldn't have strong cards for its own mechanic. So unless we want to argue classes should be made homogeneous, we have to recognise class identity is important, and strengths and weaknesses need to fit with mechanics in a way that directly supports them so there is a reason to use them, while also indirectly hindering them so they don't become uncounterable.

Ultimately that's the biggest point: all decks/classes need to have some weak point(s) that opponent's can try to exploit, or it just becomes a matter of hoping they draw badly, which is not a fun experience for anyone.

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Also, Scale of Onyxia is not a worse Flamestrike. It can be against some boards, but it can also be way better, either because there's a 6+ health minion to deal with or because some whelps survive anyway.

Have to agree with YourPrivateNightmare on this one. The fact is that druids are regularly 4-5 mana ahead of its competitors, that's the real reason why Scale of Onyxia looks incredibly OP.

Whenever druids dont ramp that far, scale of onyxia simply comes out too slow and really doesn't do more than remove 3 minions at best.

Its not about identity, its just team5 designing cards to give druid reasons to ramp up at all. If ramping up fast still results in druid getting buried then the whole class simply stops, as we have seen during stormwind. Team5 made an erroneous blunder in printing (and then refusing to nerf) cards like Overgrowth and Lightning Bloom, resulting in nearly every good midrange card for druid like Druid of the Plains getting stuffed because efficient plays requires druids to play overgrowth into immediate tempo swing to get anywhere. Scale of onyxia isn't good, but it fits the blueprint and allows druid to get away with greed, that's why its seemingly overpowered to play against.

Maybe, just maybe, after rotation we'll see a druid class that doesn't get destroyed by a turn 1 Irondeep Trogg, and doesn't just win the game if they play overgrowth or guff on curve. We'll probably see less of scale of onyxia then as well.