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Questing For Two - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

Competition Theme: Questing For Two

Sometimes you need to hedge your bets. Why send one class to save the day when you can send two?

  • You must create a Dual Class Quest card
    • You're free to match up whichever classes you want, but make sure it's a Quest - no Questlines or Sidequests allowed!

MrRhapsody wants us to bring the classes together this week, and what better way to bond than an epic Quest?

As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

Competition Phases

Here are the phases of this card design competition

  • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Jun 6 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, Jun 11 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Jun 11 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, Jun 12 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Jun 12 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Jun 13 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

Discussion Thread Rules

No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

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  • Competition Theme: Questing For Two

    Sometimes you need to hedge your bets. Why send one class to save the day when you can send two?

    • You must create a Dual Class Quest card
      • You're free to match up whichever classes you want, but make sure it's a Quest - no Questlines or Sidequests allowed!

    MrRhapsody wants us to bring the classes together this week, and what better way to bond than an epic Quest?

    As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Jun 6 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, Jun 11 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Jun 11 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, Jun 12 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Jun 12 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Jun 13 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

  • Looking For Group capitalizes on the Druid and Paladin having the proficiency to go wide. Not sure on the Quest numbers; 4-or-more might be too hard.

    Control the Skies is obviously a Control-based stalling Quest, like Awaken the Makers. Build up that fleet, then turn the cannons on the enemy!

    Show Spoiler
    When I think of an airship battle, my mind goes to this theme

    Very bummed that I can't make my own Xal'atath anymore, 'cause that would've been a cool reward item.

    Friendly

  • Hehe, I'm making a custom set where dual-class Quests are a pretty huge draw of the whole deal. I have 10 of them to work with (although I wouldn't be able to get away with all of them without set context). :)

    EDIT: For clarification, minions that are buffed in the hand or deck would only count towards Quest progression once they're actually put onto the board. At least, that's the way I envision it.

    Friendly Staff

  • This is an awesome prompt!

    This is the first idea i had. Common Shadow synergy between warlock and priest, some resummoning and minion stealing, all in all a simple mesh of themes.

    This one i foresee people hating because people hate secrets. Maybe 10 secrets at once it's too much given rogue has bounces. Might make it a spell.

    I wanted to do a different class combo for the 3rd idea but then i saw link say you can't make a Xal'atath quest. WELL I CAN! Control focused card with the theme of board clears that priest and warlock have so many of. And the reward basically makes the enemy hero have 15 max hp, making it easier to finish them off.

    Feedback:

    • linkblade91 - Looking for Group is a great idea, but i feel Teamfight tactics might be a bit OP. I can see this very easily spiraling out of control. Control the skies is a much nicer one and the reward is cool. 7 cards might be too much through but i suppose to make use of the reward you'd want to stuff as many armor cards as you can.
    • Demonxz95 - The reward i feel is too op. Twice the stats means Blessing of Kings is a 8 damage burst. I can see Blessed Champion being played unironically to quadruple the attack of Leeroy Jenkins to 32 xD.

  • Miracle of Shadows explores two themes Rogue and Priest have in common: the Miracle archetype and the 1/1 copy thing, which mesh together very well. Maybe too well, I'm afraid it might be OP lol It also has some thieving action sprinkled in, which is also something both classes tend to focus on.

    The flavor is a bit boring and very leaning towards Priest, so I might change it later.

    Regarding Keep the Balance, it makes you play three Shadow and three Holy spells; or three Arcane and three Nature spells. The reward grants some passive recovery, which isn't present in the game I believe, and fits both Priest and Druid very well.

    Overall, I think the flavor of Keep is better, but I prefer the gameplay of Miracle (if it's not OP, that is)

  • @Wailor

    Miracle of Shadows is hard to analyse how OP would be. I am certain there is a possible broken combo somewhere but I cant think of it. 

    I like Keep the Balance more but the wording needs help. The way it is makes me think I need spells that have 2 spell schools. 5 health per turn might also be a bit too much, 3 seems more balanced. 

  • A lore friendly quest to two classes that loves hitting their own minions. Just to be clear, to advance the quest you would need to directly deal the damage, minions surviving damage would not count towards quest progression. Kinda feel like it is too week right now, so I would like a second opinion on that matter.

    • Quote From MrRhapsody

      A lore friendly quest to two classes that loves hitting their own minions. Just to be clear, to advance the quest you would need to directly deal the damage, minions surviving damage would not count towards quest progression. Kinda feel like it is too week right now, so I would like a second opinion on that matter.

      If anything this seems too OP. A single Whirlwind or Rain of Fire will complete it if you have 4 or 3 minions. The random demon part is the scariest because most of the time you will get a huge body for just 2 mana. Even a 3/4 would be huge but you can regularly pop out stuff over 6 mana. 

  • Feedback:

    linkblade91
    I like Looking for Group, but I agree with Basil that the Teamfight Tactics looks very OP. Given you're already running a swarm deck to complete the Quest, I think you could drop the refresh effect and it'd still be strong. This would ruin the flavor, though, so I'd probably make it 1 Mana "Give a minion +1/+1" and keep the refresh.

    About Control the Skies, it feels too much like a pure Warrior card: the flavor isn't Druid-like at all and the reward seems way more exploitable by Warrior.

    Demonxz95
    Funny how both Druid/Paladin quests have this guild flavor xD

    About your card, I like the card fits both classes identities, but Basil is probably right about the burst potential of it. I'd probably try to think a completely different effect that is still related to buff spells, because this one is very difficult to balance.

    BasilAnguis
    My favorite is definetly Scoundrel's Craftiness. Secret Rogue is always cool and the reward is a very interesting rule bend.

    Feed the Void isn't bad, either. The reward is, again, the best part of the card. The reason I don't like it as much is that focusing on spell schools or minion types both classes have in common seems like a very obvious route to go, but it's still a very solid card.

    Finally, the only of your cards I don't like is Free Me. The effect is flavorful and all, but I feel it should simply be a weapon with this Deathrattle instead of a Quest.

    MrRhapsody
    Very flavorful card, but I agree with Basil about both things: the requirement should be harder to complete and the reward should probably drop the random Demon. How about making the Hero Power the Goblin Prank effect? This way you'd have Rush to represent Warrior and a harsh drawback to represent Warlock.

    All in all, if you polish this card, I could see it winning (again, you're having a very good strike this season). I almost won once with a Mannoroth Hero Card which had very similar flavor. Snif.

  • I tried to come up with a way to give Priest a fun win condition while also helping Thief rogue and maybe allowing for a more controlling rogue deck, here's what I came up with:

    In case it wasn't clear, the original Old Gods are C'Thun, Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound, N'Zoth, the Corruptor, and Yogg-Saron, Hope's End, all from the Whispers of the Old Gods set. Playing 7 cost copies of the Old Gods may seem very powerful (especially since you can double the Battlecry with Brann), but I think it is balanced by a couple of factors:

    1. Even if you play a shadow spell or created/bounced card every turn, the earliest that Saria could reasonably come down is turn 7, since you still have to play 5 mana to play her. This means that the Old Gods would start coming down on turn 8 at the earliest, making it a relatively small mana cheat and not too powerful compared with other late-game win conditions.

    2. There is a deckbuilding cost to complete the quest, which makes it harder to make the Old Gods a good payoff. For example, N'Zoth would be worse in a Saria deck than in a regular N'Zoth deck because you would have to play shadow spells and cards that create cards rather than Deathrattle cards.

    3. You can only really support 1 Old God in any deck, which means that the other three would end up being more like powerful tempo cards than win conditions in their own right

    There's also the argument that it doesn't fit rogue too well, but Rogue does have a minor theme of Shadow Spells, and with all of the thief rogue cards as well as bounce effects (Shadowstep progresses the quest by 2 and can let you play an Old God again) I think it would be viable in a rogue deck as well as a control Priest.

     

    So what do y'all think? Should I tone down the power level and change the cost reduction to something more reasonable like (8) or would that make the concept too weak?

    EDIT: I originally made the cost reduction to (6), but I changed my mind quickly after posting because I realized that the Shadowstep synergy was too good and would potentially allow for potential turn 6 Olds Gods, which seems a bit broken. At 7 Mana you can still do interesting combos like Brann or Zola, but it removes the possibility of blowout games.

  • New lore-based idea:

    It's basically a Hero Power Quest, like those from Saviors of Uldum, but it also changes the look of your hero for extra flavor. I had another version which gives you The Lich King as a hero card that equips Frostmourne as a Battlecry, but I decided to go with this simpler version.

    I also wanted to know if the wording I chose for the requirement is right. I was going to go with "Destroy 6 minions summoned by your Hero Power", but I'm not sure if that implies you have to destroy them, which is not what I want.

    • @Wailor

      I like the concept of this quest, but it seems a little limited in terms of what kinds of new deckbuilding and gameplay patterns it encourages, all it encourages you to do is use your Hero Power and cards like Tour Guide, and then the payoff is just a 2 mana 3/3 Taunt each turn. My suggestion would be to make the reward a Hero Card called "The Lich King," and then give it an interesting Battlecry effect that encourages synergy with other cards (for example, something like "Battlecry: For the rest of the game, when you summon a minion without playing it, give it +1|+1 and Taunt"). As you mentioned, you could also make him Equip Frostmourne if you find an interesting design for that. Overall, I think you have a great idea and flavor behind the quest, but you need to iterate on the payoff effect more (you could even change the quest requirement to friendly minions you summoned without playing them dying, or maybe 1 cost minions dying, anything that opens the synergy up more).

  • Alright then, new version based on feedback, with a harder condition and a spell reward instead of a hero power. I wanted to go with the first version but since I know a lot of people hate Charge, I made a second version. I'll try to writte a feedback tomorrow on my day off.

  • I've been very busy on my set, and it's actually just about done. I'm almost ready to post it. My Quest is actually part of my set, so less than stellar feedback is not exactly a good sign, but I will manage with it.

    Linkblade91

    I will admit that it is slightly awkward for both of our Paladin/Quests to have such similar themes, but I do quite like the flavor and mechanics of Looking For Group. I will however echo that Teamfight Tactics can definitely snowball quite heavily.

    Control the Skies is a cool Quest. My main critiques of it though are that it doesn't seem to have much Druid flavor, and the effect is probably not that useful for Warrior since they already have tons of removal. Druid however would definitely appreciate it and I could see them trying to use it. At the end of the day, it's going to be basically impossible to make a Quest that doesn't skew at least slightly towards one Quest, so I can't really fault you for that.

    BasilAnguis

    Feed the Void has awesome flavor, but an aspect of it that I don't really like is how easy it is to complete it with very few cards. Not for balance reasons, but more so from a gameplay perspective. Quests are supposed to requirement some sort of commitment and I feel like this one doesn't really have that.

    Scoundrel's Craftiness is okay. While I do like the Rogue/Hunter pairing with Secrets, it's definitely too obvious for the competition. One card submitted already uses this combination and also uses Secrets, and I can also guarantee that it won't be the last one either.

    Free Me I unfortunately can't say that I like. It's unintentionally easy to circumvent. Just because you can't play weapons doesn't mean that you can't equip them with a card like Blingtron. The weapon actually doesn't even have to be part of the Quest. The Quest objective can just be Xal'atath's text. Finally the reward is also not that impressive. It's basically just a cheaper Alexstrasza without flexibility.

    Wailor

    I prefer Miracle of Shadows personally. I quite like the card. My only little gripe is that the objective feels more like a Sidequest than a fully-fledged Quest, but I think the balance is on point. Priest/Rogue is also one of my favorite pairings to use, so you get points for me there.

    Keep the Balance is by no means bad, and I quite like the flavor. It's just simply a matter of preference here.

    MrRhapsody
    I do agree with changing the balance, but unfortunately, you've created a new problem. With the second version of the reward, your minions won't be able to attack your opponent at all for the rest of the game (assuming they don't have Charge) because they die at the start of your turn and don't gain Charge, thus they would die before they get their first opportunity to attack the enemy hero.

    CursedParrot
    I unfortunately don't really like this too much, mostly because I don't really think the reward is that interesting. Not necessarily unbalanced, but it doesn't feel creative enough to me.

    Wailor (again)

    I for one love the Paladin/Shaman Hero Power dynamic. Unfortunately, I don't really like basing the Quest around it just wants you to press it repeatedly which doesn't feel like something Quests want you to do. In my mind, Quests are something that wants you to use certain cards to accomplish.

    Even if it is theoretically possible to complete Activate the Obelisk, Lost in the Park, Supreme Archaeology, or The Demon Seed using only your Hero Power, it still encourages you to use cards to complete it faster as relying solely on your Hero Power would be too slow and unreliable (and the less I speak about Untapped Potential, the better). I don't really feel that with this Quest. The balance of The Lich King himself feels okay (I don't know about perfect, but it's okay), although it is a little bit awkward given that The Lich King is already a thing in the game.

    Friendly Staff

  • I like Wailor's suggestion for a 1-mana Hero Power with Looking for Group. I might just go with that. Edit: Now that I'm home, I can Hearthcard my newest stuff:

    Now the flavor of Control the Skies matches both classes: whether by cannon fire or lightning bolts, demonstrate your air superiority over the enemy! Turn your overkill removal into face damage.

    Friendly

  • Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    MrRhapsody - Charge is scary, but without it Blood of Mannoroth is frankly garbage. You're telling the opponent "screw this, I'm done playing for the board", and you'll constantly need to reload since nothing will stick, so maybe it's alright.

    Wailor - Your alternate wording of We Are One would imply you must be the one destroying your minions, so that's a no-go. Beyond that, I really don't see where the Shaman comes in beyond the fact that they also summon tokens. Regarding your other options, I prefer Keep the Balance because I really dislike Quests that are pass/fail (i.e: Final Showdown). Either you can manage to complete the Quest all in one turn, or you can't and the game was a waste of time. The Hero Power is cool; I just don't like the requirements.

    CursedParrot - I don't like the "or" option, because depending on the time-line the Rogue could have little to no Shadow spells at their disposal. I understand that they would probably get some alongside the Quest, but that's all they might have, which would suck. A Thief Priest/Rogue combo is neat, even if the Old Gods don't really connect to that in my opinion. Honestly, I would dump the Old Gods: cool as they are, they don't work well together and your deck must be able to utilize some of them on top of fulfilling the Quest requirements or the reward is really bad.

    BasilAnguis - Amusing as it is, Free Me has a huge problem and it's Blingtron 3000. Scoundrel's Craftiness is definitely better crafted, even if "Cast 10 random Secrets" is a hard sell. How often does either class have access to 10 unique Secrets in Standard at the same time? I believe the answer is "never", which is an issue; if they could mix that would definitely help. Compared to the other two, I find Feed the Void boring.

    Demonxz95 - So an AoE buff like Power of the Wild could progress the Quest more than once, right? If that's true, the Druid can breeze through the requirements on rocket skates, far more readily than the Paladin can. The Paladin I imagine would get some kind of buffs in the set, but so wouldn't their counterpart. I guess you could argue "the Paladin's buffs would be slower but bigger", which is something, but the Druid might kill them before they get there lol.

    Friendly

  • Alright then, I decided to make the reward a Hero Power again, the spell version would be either broken or stupid, so a in between version was necessary.

    And now, feedback time.

    Show Spoiler

    Linkblade: Control the Skies flavour's Amazing! Though I'm not quite sold on the reward, the pratical side of it seens kinda lackluster. Looking for Group though is awesome in every way, one of my favorites so far.

    Wailor: Of all your cards, I like Keep the Balance the most, nice flavour, class dynamic and balance. Miracle of Shadows is nice too but not my favorite, and honestly We are One has a good flavour but that is about it, not really a fan of it.

    CursedParot: I think you're trying too hard with your card, a lot of things in it seens kinda throwed away for no reason (Like Stealth or the "They cost (7)" part) Your card has potencial, but you should REALLY simplify it and give it a more clear direction.

    BasilAnguis: Out of your cards, I like Feed the Void the most, nice flavour and class dynamic here, however I have two complains, the first being the art of L'ura of the Void, a screenshot as a card art is a bad idea, if you decide to go with it, here's a art suggestion for you on the spolier, and the other one is the condition should've been harder to complete, 6 could be easilly completled with a board clear (Similar to my original card ironically).

    Show Spoiler

    Demon: Well, submmiting cards from custom expansions haven't really worked for me in the past, but maybe you'll have better luck. Regarding the card, I like it a lot! The burst potencial might be scary, but if Stormwind thought us something is that quests are supposed to be finishers and not stallers, so I don't think it is really a problem (Althought I can see some people giving it lower rates for that matter).

  • I ended submitting Keep the Balance, but I changed the reward to Yu'lon (I forgot to put a watermark on her pls don't be too harsh). I think all four Celestials would fit very well for dual Quest rewards in a Pandaria themed expansion. Chi-Ji would be Mage/Paladin, Niuzao Warrior/Hunter and Xuen Shaman/Rogue.

    Anyway, some late feedback:

    CursedParrot
    My main criticism is the double requirement, since both classes would try to complete the Quest in their own way. I know it's intentional, but it kinda defeats the point of dual Quests.

    Besides that, I like the reward, but I'd probably drop Stealth and Lifesteal and just give Saria more stats, in order to reduce the card complexity.

    MrRhapsody
    I think you made a good call to go back to a Hero Power. I cannot give much feedback without knowing what it would do exactly (I still suggest you to implement a Hero Power version of Goblin Prank, though.

    linkblade91
    Both cards are good improvements over the original ones. I think I prefer Control the Skies, but both are very strong contenders.

  • Thanks for all of the feedback, I streamlined the design a bit (hearthcards automatically makes the "Corrupt" in Corruptor bold, so if someone has a solution to that I'd appreciate that too):

    For the redesign I basically just focused it on specifically Yogg Saron and N'Zoth, so now the quest requirement and the quest reward should be more in line with one another. This does shift the synergy from Thief Rogue to Deathrattle/Spell Rogue and Priest, but I think it makes the deckbuilding more open and causes the design to make a lot more sense.

     

    Feedback:

    Demonxz95- I really like your concept but I do see how it might allow for too many combos with increased attack. I think you could either make the reward only double health buffs, or do something like "For the rest of the game, your stat buffs give an extra +1|+1 and Taunt," which would remove the overpowered combos (though it might make small buffs too good and big buffs a little weak).

    MrRhapsody- I agree with other commentators that the balance seems way off, Charge would be way too good and Rush+Taunt would be awful. I think a better reward might be something like "When you summon a unit with 2 or more health, deal 1 damage to it and give it +3 attack" which still has some of the same flavor but isn't as hard to balance (though with this change it would likely be too weak at 5 mana)

    Linkblade91- I don't really have any feedback since your designs seem pretty good, my only worry is that in terms of gameplay the Overkill quest might be a bit frustrating since the gameplan would just be tons of removal and then a burn finisher that discourages the opponent from playing minions.

  • I just posted my expansion (which you should totally check out by the way). I'm just going to say fuck it and throw three more of my Quests into the fray of this competition.

    Feedback for CursedParrot
    If you put bold coding in the middle of the word, it should get rid of the bolding, so for example, if you write "Corr[b][/b]upter" instead of "Corrupter" into the textbox, then it'll display "Corrupter" on the text of the card without bolding "Corrupt".

    I do feel like this new Quest is probably better designed, but I don't really see a practical reason to run the Quest and go through the objective over just running one of those Old Gods in your deck instead. I suppose for the time it's in Standard, it would give you a way to play them again.

    Friendly Staff

  • @Cursed the new requirement is much better I think, as it's something that ties into the reward and both classes like to do. For the reward, though, I'd go with the previous one, but removing the Stealth and Lifesteal.

    @Demon the DH/Warrior Quest is my fav of all you posted so far.

  • Made the quest a bit more interesting and hard to complete. The different mana cost requirement works better with the actual reward and it asks you to keep track of the values yourself. Of course it's possible the enemy does not have minions of 5 different costs but most shadow spells can target friendly minions too, or damage them anyway as they are bilateral boardclears. Could use this to resummon specific minions you want with L'ura for just 5 mana and do some combo!

    New idea. No one here decided to go down the hero power reward path of Uldum so i made this. Why warrior and druid? Well, worgens are connected to druids lore wise. As for warrior... idk, armor and attacking stuff i guess. The idea is that you basically have a 2 part her power. You can only use the human form if you triggered the worgen form. Of course you can just go face with the worgen form, but the quest is viable as both control and aggro strategies.

    • Demonxz95 - It's strange seeing Darius on a hunter card lol. Volcanic Forging seems a bit op as it's Mind Blast each turn at worst, and even more toxic immovable object at best (Bulwark of Azzinoth!!!). Legion Expedition seems ok balance wise but i'd suggest different art. The crystal alcoves i like cause it reminds me of Dragon Soul. This at least seems to be playable. One day my precious....
    • CursedParrot - Not a fan of cards that are basically "add this older cooler card to your hand".
    • linkblade91 - Mad Summoner into Hagatha's Scheme otk. Idea is cool, near impossible to balance sadly. And i think shaman has had enough game winning quest rewards, right? xD
    • MrRhapsody - Giving all minions charge is a really bad idea (see Mr. Smite). The second reward doesn't really have synergy with the quest requirements. I guess it works for eggs but on the warrior side the enrage and self damage minions kinda suffer.
    • Quote From BasilAnguis
      • Demonxz95 - It's strange seeing Darius on a hunter card lol. Volcanic Forging seems a bit op as it's Mind Blast each turn at worst, and even more toxic immovable object at best (Bulwark of Azzinoth!!!). Legion Expedition seems ok balance wise but i'd suggest different art. The crystal alcoves i like cause it reminds me of Dragon Soul. This at least seems to be playable. One day my precious....

      Well shit. I really should've thought of that, but I didn't. I'm absolutely going to need to think of some change to that.

      Friendly Staff

  • You have 25 hours left to submit!

    Friendly

  • Good luck to all the finalists!

    Friendly

  • Oh wow, I won :D That was super close!

    Edit: The Quest is part-Paladin, so my meme continues lol

    Friendly

  • Congrats linkblade!