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Hearthstone | Posted by | 6 years, 8 months ago
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New Card Types

As of now we have Quest cards, and Hero cards that have been added since the game launched. SoU will be the second expansion to show case Quest Cards. When creating custom cards it's often a challenge for me to either introduce a new card type, or a new mechanic in general. Do you think that the game of Hearthstone itself is self limiting to new mechanics/cards?

If you boil it down enough, Reborn becomes 'Deathrattle: Summon this minion with one health remaining.' which really isn't a mechanic but rather a rewording of an existing mechanic with an additional effect.

I ask because it's often difficult to come up with something that is absolutely a new concept to the game. [Hearthstone Card (Jaraxxus) Not Found] was the first 'Hero card' in the game but was also considered a minion so I don't know if it falls into that category.

And another question comes to mind. would the game benefit from big end turn minions like similar to the Old Golds for the wow factor?

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  • As of now we have Quest cards, and Hero cards that have been added since the game launched. SoU will be the second expansion to show case Quest Cards. When creating custom cards it's often a challenge for me to either introduce a new card type, or a new mechanic in general. Do you think that the game of Hearthstone itself is self limiting to new mechanics/cards?

    If you boil it down enough, Reborn becomes 'Deathrattle: Summon this minion with one health remaining.' which really isn't a mechanic but rather a rewording of an existing mechanic with an additional effect.

    I ask because it's often difficult to come up with something that is absolutely a new concept to the game. [Hearthstone Card (Jaraxxus) Not Found] was the first 'Hero card' in the game but was also considered a minion so I don't know if it falls into that category.

    And another question comes to mind. would the game benefit from big end turn minions like similar to the Old Golds for the wow factor?

  • I believe that hero cards and huge end game minions like the Old Gods were super fun for the game. Sure a couple of times it could seem unfair when you played against Deathstalker Rexxar and he created the perfect zombeast for the situation but I believe that is more enjoyable than playing against decks that need 0 thinking when it comes to decision making. A perfect example would be Odd Paladin and the board spamming strategy (which is super infuriating to go up against.

    I always loved big expensive minions with crazy effects. The Old Gods are some of my all time favorite cards. Moreover you required to build a deck around them if you wanted to find any success. That makes it even more fun because YOU got to decide what cards would best compliment your big end game powerhouse Old Gods. I really do hope they add cards similar to them in the future.

    Symmetric effects that could last for a few turns or even for the rest of the game is a card type I would like to see implemented into the game. Let's say a card that would damage any player that would cost a spell for example. Effects that would act the same way for board players but you would make sure your deck could make use of that effect more than your enemy. 

    There are many things that could be done and new card types that could be made. My opinion is that the developers want to keep the game as simple as possible because they are afraid the player base would decrease if they were to add more complicated mechanics.

    • Quote From Natexdzero

      I believe that hero cards and huge end game minions like the Old Gods were super fun for the game. Sure a couple of times it could seem unfair when you played against Deathstalker Rexxar and he created the perfect zombeast for the situation but I believe that is more enjoyable than playing against decks that need 0 thinking when it comes to decision making. A perfect example would be Odd Paladin and the board spamming strategy (which is super infuriating to go up against.

      I always loved big expensive minions with crazy effects. The Old Gods are some of my all time favorite cards. Moreover you required to build a deck around them if you wanted to find any success. That makes it even more fun because YOU got to decide what cards would best compliment your big end game powerhouse Old Gods. I really do hope they add cards similar to them in the future.

      Symmetric effects that could last for a few turns or even for the rest of the game is a card type I would like to see implemented into the game. Let's say a card that would damage any player that would cost a spell for example. Effects that would act the same way for board players but you would make sure your deck could make use of that effect more than your enemy. 

      There are many things that could be done and new card types that could be made. My opinion is that the developers want to keep the game as simple as possible because they are afraid the player base would decrease if they were to add more complicated mechanics.

      So with my custom expansion, I introduced buildings. Which are just non-intractable, indestructible, passive value generators. The idea was to set the power level pretty high along with encouraging players into building around fatigue concepts. They were powerhouses in their own way for generating value if you were lucky enough to play it on curve. Other than the Buildings that was really the only new thing I could think of. Right now I'm trying to make another one with that big 'end of game' kick for each of the classes but it kinda feels half assed.

  • I almost hate the hero cards that made me left the game for some months. KoFT was a nightmare to play against Death knight cards.

    Back to topic: Big minions with an end of turn effects aren't probably the only good type of minions there, I would like to see kind of strong minions with good abilities they have, like Walking Fountain, Oondasta, etc.

    The only problem related to few numbers of good big minion out there is that legendary minions tend to have better and unique abilities (like end of turn effect) than most big packfiller minions, those packfillers are unplayable when it comes to constructed deck, and gets only chance to play with it by evolution effect: Living Monument, Faceless Behemoth. So with the Heartstone's very simple mechanic, it's most likely legendary minions only be receiving a rare unique end of turn ability. I would like to see more of them.

    At any time when Hearthstone feels completely running out of ideas after hundred expansions, there could be a decision of game designer to magically transform Hearthstone into advanced version, change the card's style entirely, making it less simplistic and complicating keywords, hope you get it. so that's the only improvement I can think to make the game better if the game wants to live longer. I think to enjoy the Hearthstone for a while now.

    So now, the brilliant fan-made card designers are only capable of making Hearthstone a new fresh way, example like what the Heartstone team did: like Battlecry, go Discover a card. Right now you still have the chance to make unique keyword before the game stole your idea. Here is why:

    I have a similar card like Dr. Boom, Mad Genius that swaps the hero power at end of turn, but didn't reveal it in Hearthpwn because I want to abandon my overpowered expansion, could have been my last card to impress some people, too bad I didn't.

    • Quote From Mercynary9

      I almost hate the hero cards that made me left the game for some months. KoFT was a nightmare to play against Death knight cards.

      Back to topic: Big minions with an end of turn effects aren't probably the only good type of minions there, I would like to see kind of strong minions with good abilities they have, like Walking Fountain, Oondasta, etc.

      The only problem related to few numbers of good big minion out there is that legendary minions tend to have better and unique abilities (like end of turn effect) than most big packfiller minions, those packfillers are unplayable when it comes to constructed deck, and gets only chance to play with it by evolution effect: Living Monument, Faceless Behemoth. So with the Heartstone's very simple mechanic, it's most likely legendary minions only be receiving a rare unique end of turn ability. I would like to see more of them.

      At any time when Hearthstone feels completely running out of ideas after hundred expansions, there could be a decision of game designer to magically transform Hearthstone into advanced version, change the card's style entirely, making it less simplistic and complicating keywords, hope you get it. so that's the only improvement I can think to make the game better if the game wants to live longer. I think to enjoy the Hearthstone for a while now.

      So now, the brilliant fan-made card designers are only capable of making Hearthstone a new fresh way, example like what the Heartstone team did: like Battlecry, go Discover a card. Right now you still have the chance to make unique keyword before the game stole your idea. Here is why:

      I have a similar card like Dr. Boom, Mad Genius that swaps the hero power at end of turn, but didn't reveal it in Hearthpwn because I want to abandon my overpowered expansion, could have been my last card to impress some people, too bad I didn't.

      So you like minions that are versatile? Similar to Zilliax? I try to avoid Legendaries that are just re-hashes of already existing minions like Sea Reaver and Flame Leviathan because it's good practice to introduce fun ideas that haven't been tried before i.e. Hex Lord Malacrass.

      Part of me wishes that it would become slightly more complicated, not to the crazy level of MTG but it would be nice to see some new minion tribes and more cards to support those individual decks, like Beast Druid was a thing for while and it just kind of fell to the wayside. I feel that somehing like that would enhance the deckbuilding experience as well because as of late the only minions getting synergies are the Murlocs.

       

      • Quote From griffior

        So you like minions that are versatile? Similar to Zilliax? I try to avoid Legendaries that are just re-hashes of already existing minions like Sea Reaver and Flame Leviathan because it's good practice to introduce fun ideas that haven't been tried before i.e. Hex Lord Malacrass.

        Part of me wishes that it would become slightly more complicated, not to the crazy level of MTG but it would be nice to see some new minion tribes and more cards to support those individual decks, like Beast Druid was a thing for while and it just kind of fell to the wayside. I feel that somehing like that would enhance the deckbuilding experience as well because as of late the only minions getting synergies are the Murlocs.

         

        Yeah, sorta, I like the minions with cool effect. Hex Lord Malacrass right there is a good example of a fun and new card. Just not felt impressed by the stat points, really cool battlecry. But If they are going to buff him when Raskhatan expansion is in the next to-do list on Blizzard, that would be greaaaat.

        You are right about the tribe support and some decks, one thing come to my mind was the Magnetize keyword, that one has forced me to buy the expansion when I saw it, but the disadvantage of buying the expansion was the bad epic cards. Anyway, I don't think new amazing mechanic are going to happen again like Boomsday Project.

        And about making new deck viable, I was thinking about cards that synergies well together so it will have a good result, like Deathrattle/Big Hunter deck (Egg activator, cheating out minions, and cube-ing, ew). It came out of nowhere and I honestly hate that deck a lot, but I was surprised that deck worked out really good.

        With many synergies, new archetype could make it happen anytime.

  • I think we might eventually get something like "trinkets", that can either have passive aura-like effects or be something like a second hero power. Unless the development of 0-attack weapons continues and keeps that part of design in this area.

    add buldings: iv seen several ppl in the past trying to implement building type card into the HS and i dont think iv ever liked any variation of what i saw. My biggest strife with such a design is the inability to interact with "gathering resources" from the other player's side. It was usually understated minions or overcosted spells that were supposed to provide resources (wood) for the tempo loss. But the opponent could never interact with that part of the play, nor did the game mechanics. You would just play out your cards, get enough resources and then when you had enough, played the structure card and reap the benefits. That is a very one dimensional playstyle with zero interaction from the other side of the board that just seems wrong to me.

    Not to mention that introducing a new card type will probably have to be done for all 9 classes at once. Even if it didnt have to be like that from game mechanics or balance standpoint, i dont think community would survive that and there would be too much of an outcry.

    With that said, it is not easy to come up with something new you can casually implement for every class. I believe HS is far from reaching its full potential or running out of ideas, but given the fact how the game is structured - and lets not forget about the catering to the mobile client above many things - designing new, meaningful card types that would make sense and were possible to implement throughout the entire spectrum is no easy task.

    Staff
    • Quote From sinti

      I think we might eventually get something like "trinkets", that can either have passive aura-like effects or be something like a second hero power. Unless the development of 0-attack weapons continues and keeps that part of design in this area.

      add buldings: iv seen several ppl in the past trying to implement building type card into the HS and i dont think iv ever liked any variation of what i saw. My biggest strife with such a design is the inability to interact with "gathering resources" from the other player's side. It was usually understated minions or overcosted spells that were supposed to provide resources (wood) for the tempo loss. But the opponent could never interact with that part of the play, nor did the game mechanics. You would just play out your cards, get enough resources and then when you had enough, played the structure card and reap the benefits. That is a very one dimensional playstyle with zero interaction from the other side of the board that just seems wrong to me.

      Not to mention that introducing a new card type will probably have to be done for all 9 classes at once. Even if it didnt have to be like that from game mechanics or balance standpoint, i dont think community would survive that and there would be too much of an outcry.

      With that said, it is not easy to come up with something new you can casually implement for every class. I believe HS is far from reaching its full potential or running out of ideas, but given the fact how the game is structured - and lets not forget about the catering to the mobile client above many things - designing new, meaningful card types that would make sense and were possible to implement throughout the entire spectrum is no easy task.

      I tried my hand at the Buildings mechanic with the idea of the set just being really powerful. I think I made this around the time RR had it's meta solved so I had this idea of 'the last expansion should be powerful because it won't be in standard for too long and it'll shake up the meta'. Looking back, some of the stuff is just WAY too over the top. Even the buildings for each class are more or less what you said, they deny the ability for interaction. Which is what I was trying to go for but as I look back, it's a bad idea since there's no REAL way to counter them.


      Druid
      https://imgur.com/a/wDLI7P5

      Hunter
      https://imgur.com/a/kPsfT8c

      Mage
      https://imgur.com/a/oFbCx3E

      Paladin
      https://imgur.com/a/JolrWm4

      Priest
      https://imgur.com/a/mEb4gM6

      Rogue
      https://imgur.com/a/LXDYNGD

      Shaman
      https://imgur.com/a/pEufp4P

      Warlock
      https://imgur.com/a/LswTw1g

      Warrior
      https://imgur.com/a/XrctCWi

      EDIT: There was also an additional rule with this set that each of the class legendary minions could not be in the deck if the building was in the deck and vice versa.

  • Speaking of new mechanics we're talking about, I'm planning to go make 100 total new cards with every 10 different sets in different theme. I have previously made another 100 cards this year, although my few cards seem rushed and others of it were uninspired, so I'm going for a 200th cards with a new mechanic this time, mostly keywords.

    For less than 2 weeks, I have reached around 70 cards, so just a few more left and I'll show new keywords that I haven't done before. Some may be a generic and common mechanic/keywords that are very similarly used throughout Hearthpwn. But, there is one awesome keyword I have made it up to date. Excited to share many people. Yet I gotta complete the rest before showcasing the new 100 cards.

    But at the moment, I think I'm kinda bragging here right now without showing anything, so I'll just go this way:

    First, do actions, then words later.

    I should finish it this month, just 30 cards left...

    • Quote From Mercynary9

      Speaking of new mechanics we're talking about, I'm planning to go make 100 total new cards with every 10 different sets in different theme. I have previously made another 100 cards this year, although my few cards seem rushed and others of it were uninspired, so I'm going for a 200th cards with a new mechanic this time, mostly keywords.

      For less than 2 weeks, I have reached around 70 cards, so just a few more left and I'll show new keywords that I haven't done before. Some may be a generic and common mechanic/keywords that are very similarly used throughout Hearthpwn. But, there is one awesome keyword I have made it up to date. Excited to share many people. Yet I gotta complete the rest before showcasing the new 100 cards.

      But at the moment, I think I'm kinda bragging here right now without showing anything, so I'll just go this way:

      First, do actions, then words later.

      I should finish it this month, just 30 cards left...

      Hopefully this site’s custom card system will be up and running by then

  • Sorry to crash the conversation, but wasn't Blackhowl Gunspire technically a building? I say that but I could be very wrong..

     

    • Quote From EndlessTides

      Sorry to crash the conversation, but wasn't Blackhowl Gunspire technically a building? I say that but I could be very wrong..

       

      Technically, sure :) There were many jokes at the time about attacking with said building when you silence it :)

      Staff
    • Quote From EndlessTides

      Sorry to crash the conversation, but wasn't Blackhowl Gunspire technically a building? I say that but I could be very wrong..

       

      Well, it is a building. The art and name of the card imply that, and the fact that it can't attack also solidifies it as a building. I'm speaking more along the lines of creating a new type of card very similar to Blackhowl Gunspire, I mean if they do introduce buildings, they may change it into one with a different functionality. Or just chnage the art and name and call it a day.

  • I'd love buildings and/or environments as new types.

    Conditional (deckbuilding and/or game status) cards that are permanently dormant (occupying slots) but offer small steady bonuses.

    They could start in hand (environment) and then offer a minor bonus, or cost some more mana and be drawn (building), and then offer a slightly stronger bonus.

    • Quote From RavenSunHS

      I'd love buildings and/or environments as new types.

      Conditional (deckbuilding and/or game status) cards that are permanently dormant (occupying slots) but offer small steady bonuses.

      They could start in hand (environment) and then offer a minor bonus, or cost some more mana and be drawn (building), and then offer a slightly stronger bonus.

      Found this a while back: https://www.reddit.com/r/customhearthstone/comments/bthovr/hes_back_boys_and_girls/

      This is something that could be dynamic with every expansion if something like this were introduced into the core set.

      • Quote From griffior
        Quote From RavenSunHS

        I'd love buildings and/or environments as new types.

        Conditional (deckbuilding and/or game status) cards that are permanently dormant (occupying slots) but offer small steady bonuses.

        They could start in hand (environment) and then offer a minor bonus, or cost some more mana and be drawn (building), and then offer a slightly stronger bonus.

        Found this a while back: https://www.reddit.com/r/customhearthstone/comments/bthovr/hes_back_boys_and_girls/

        This is something that could be dynamic with every expansion if something like this were introduced into the core set.

        That's also cool, although a bit random i guess, much like Finley.

        But yeah, the mutual effect concept is also interesting, as a player could deckbuild for maximum profit, hoping the opponent won't benefit as much.