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Hearthstone | Posted by | 2 years, 10 months ago
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Snap Vs Hearthstone (not a rant thread)

I had the privilege to reopen a Hearthstone account and was severely disappointed  when we didn't get the full dust refund for the rotation. I was waiting for the refund to craft some wild cards and have some fun in wild (I know the meta in wild is problematic, but trying out fun concepts was always the more fun aspects of the game). 

So, while keeping the minimum amount of time  at Hearthstone, I started a Marvel Snap account and started to play (I also tried some other mobile games, but Snap is the only one that stuck for now, besides Hearthstone). While playing it, I found that Ben Brode and his team learned some valuable lessons and made a game that is  better (at least in some aspects). There are things for the hearthstone team to learn here, or I fear Hearthstone will loose traction, as more games will take chunks off the field.

Note: I am leaving out the fact that Snap games resolve quicker, for that is a personal reference, and some people may enjoy the longer matches.

1) Generosity- This links back to the background story, but more. I believe I opened around 60 HS packs out of the new expansion, but only "won" one legendary out of packs. In Snap, the feeling is that F2P have access to the strongest of cards, for "legendary" cards are not a grantee win. 

2) Strategy- HS lost its strategy edge. Yes, you still need to know how to pilot some decks, but usually the power level of Druid, or DK, will solve the match. In Snap, where you put your cards, and the order you play has significance. Just the play of different locations makes for a different game experience.

I am sure there are more, but that is enough for now.

Whatever you you choose to play, though, have fun :)

 

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  • I had the privilege to reopen a Hearthstone account and was severely disappointed  when we didn't get the full dust refund for the rotation. I was waiting for the refund to craft some wild cards and have some fun in wild (I know the meta in wild is problematic, but trying out fun concepts was always the more fun aspects of the game). 

    So, while keeping the minimum amount of time  at Hearthstone, I started a Marvel Snap account and started to play (I also tried some other mobile games, but Snap is the only one that stuck for now, besides Hearthstone). While playing it, I found that Ben Brode and his team learned some valuable lessons and made a game that is  better (at least in some aspects). There are things for the hearthstone team to learn here, or I fear Hearthstone will loose traction, as more games will take chunks off the field.

    Note: I am leaving out the fact that Snap games resolve quicker, for that is a personal reference, and some people may enjoy the longer matches.

    1) Generosity- This links back to the background story, but more. I believe I opened around 60 HS packs out of the new expansion, but only "won" one legendary out of packs. In Snap, the feeling is that F2P have access to the strongest of cards, for "legendary" cards are not a grantee win. 

    2) Strategy- HS lost its strategy edge. Yes, you still need to know how to pilot some decks, but usually the power level of Druid, or DK, will solve the match. In Snap, where you put your cards, and the order you play has significance. Just the play of different locations makes for a different game experience.

    I am sure there are more, but that is enough for now.

    Whatever you you choose to play, though, have fun :)

     

    • Quote From TheBowMan

      1) Generosity- This links back to the background story, but more. I believe I opened around 60 HS packs out of the new expansion, but only "won" one legendary out of packs. In Snap, the feeling is that F2P have access to the strongest of cards, for "legendary" cards are not a grantee win. 

      Not to be a Cynical Sally, but this peters off when you're neck-deep in Series 3 and can't acquire the cards you want. There are *so* many Series 3 cards now that getting a specific individual card can be a nightmare, as our own sule explained a week ago. The one free card-per-Season is not enough; after that, you're at the complete mercy of the Collector's Reserve chests containing what you want, and that's assuming they drop a card in the first place :/ We really need the "1000 tokens for a Series 3 card" offer to reappear, at the very least. Gives us back the freedom to spend our tokens how we want.

      I really enjoy Marvel Snap, don't get me wrong; I'm trying (and failing) to ween myself off Hearthstone even as I ramp back up in my Snap-ing. I have multiple decks I find fun and their design philosophy of "play with what you have" is not entirely misguided in my opinion. But the early-game generosity definitely falls away after a point, as the mid-game stress comes to a head, and going a couple weeks without seeing a card you want enter your collection can be rather disheartening.

      As a personal example, "play with what (I) have" isn't all it's cracked up to be when I pull Discard cards left-and-right and I thoroughly dislike the concept...

      ...sorry, now I'm the one ranting lol.

      Friendly

      • I have been playing HS even before NAX (I think 2013), and can't stop ever since (though I restarted with new accounts like three or four times).

        I think what you want to say is that the new player experience is great, but once you are in "the thick of it", things change. I hope not, but then again, I've been playing Snap for merely two weeks, so we will wait and see.

        The new player experience in H was great, they worked really hard on it, and it shows. After that, if you don;t play Druid or DK, you don't really have a chance. I know Paladin is gaining traction, but with few twinks to my DK list, I don't lose to them anymore.

        HS does offer a lot with arena, brawl, and playground. But the tactic and strategy part of the game is missing.

      • Quote From linkblade91
        Quote From TheBowMan

        1) Generosity- This links back to the background story, but more. I believe I opened around 60 HS packs out of the new expansion, but only "won" one legendary out of packs. In Snap, the feeling is that F2P have access to the strongest of cards, for "legendary" cards are not a grantee win. 

        Not to be a Cynical Sally, but this peters off when you're neck-deep in Series 3 and can't acquire the cards you want. There are *so* many Series 3 cards now that getting a specific individual card can be a nightmare, as our own sule explained a week ago. The one free card-per-Season is not enough; after that, you're at the complete mercy of the Collector's Reserve chests containing what you want, and that's assuming they drop a card in the first place :/ We really need the "1000 tokens for a Series 3 card" offer to reappear, at the very least. Gives us back the freedom to spend our tokens how we want.

        I really enjoy Marvel Snap, don't get me wrong; I'm trying (and failing) to ween myself off Hearthstone even as I ramp back up in my Snap-ing. I have multiple decks I find fun and their design philosophy of "play with what you have" is not entirely misguided in my opinion. But the early-game generosity definitely falls away after a point, as the mid-game stress comes to a head, and going a couple weeks without seeing a card you want enter your collection can be rather disheartening.

        As a personal example, "play with what (I) have" isn't all it's cracked up to be when I pull Discard cards left-and-right and I thoroughly dislike the concept...

        ...sorry, now I'm the one ranting lol.

        I have been playing HS even before NAX (I think 2013), and can't stop ever since (though I restarted with new accounts like three or four times).

        I think what you want to say is that the new player experience is great, but once you are in "the thick of it", things change. I hope not, but then again, I've been playing Snap for merely two weeks, so we will wait and see.

        The new player experience in H was great, they worked really hard on it, and it shows. After that, if you don;t play Druid or DK, you don't really have a chance. I know Paladin is gaining traction, but with few twinks to my DK list, I don't lose to them anymore.

        HS does offer a lot with arena, brawl, and playground. But the tactic and strategy part of the game is missing.

    • Quote From TheBowMan

      2) Strategy- HS lost its strategy edge. Yes, you still need to know how to pilot some decks, but usually the power level of Druid, or DK, will solve the match. In Snap, where you put your cards, and the order you play has significance. Just the play of different locations makes for a different game experience.

      I dont think much has really changed in this regard. The game evolved past the usual curve gameplay (which incidentally still works pretty well) into patterns of play, like how most competitive decks tend to have burst turns, or turns that really define the deck's power level. For some like hunter, its still turn 1-2-3 whereas for others like big druid its turn 5.

      Its a bit too simplistic to call it all on power level alone. Certain decks wins late game better than others, whereas others dominate the early game. Druid has lots of OP cards, but will still get slapped up like a bitch if you simply curve minions in the early game. Blood DK is a menace to most aggro decks, but sustained pressure would still beat it.

      But ultimately, I feel its just more fun to be able to do powerful things that define a deck, rather than play a game of psuedo-chess. Lifecoach pretty much departed the HS scene for that reason alone, and has been touting Gwent as the superior game because decisions have more significance. Gwent lasted about 2-3 years and is currently, unfortunately, dead.

       

      SNAP is in its early days, as the years go by it'll be forced to evolve and pretty soon I think we'll see the same thing happening to it as it has to hearthstone. It happened to pokemon TCG, and to certain extents the old, now defunct, digimon TCG.

      Friendly
    • Quote From TheBowMan

      I had the privilege to reopen a Hearthstone account and was severely disappointed  when we didn't get the full dust refund for the rotation.

       

      Never in the history of Hearthstone have they given out full dust refunds for cards rotating.  When they put things into Hall of Fame you could get dust refunds and kept the cards.  But that was a special situation, and no longer applies with the Core set being introduced a couple years ago.  Because now everyone gets the Core set for free.  But you don't own those cards!  They are basically rented to your account, and if they rotate out, they are gone.  The only way you keep Core cards after rotation is if you already own a copy of the cards from their original set, or if you craft/open copies after the rotation.

  • I'm not sure what they can do to keep the same feeling of progression, not give everyone everything too quickly, make profits, not make the game pay2win or pay2play, and still feel generous in what they give out.

    Got a few ideas of my own, but it's useless to mention them anyway. Hopefully they hit the jackpot eventually to make almost everyone happy.

    • Quote From Crusader2010

      I'm not sure what they can do to keep the same feeling of progression, not give everyone everything too quickly, make profits, not make the game pay2win or pay2play, and still feel generous in what they give out.

      Got a few ideas of my own, but it's useless to mention them anyway. Hopefully they hit the jackpot eventually to make almost everyone happy.

      Same here

  • Just stop playing and leave bad reviews everywhere until they let up.

    Spread the word around places that treat this game like a a sacred cow  that the Series 3/4/5 drops are not enough and eventually they'll loosen it up more than it already is.

  • IMO, people still play Hearthstone only because it was the first big, successful digital card game, and for a few years, it was the best one out there. During this time, it collected an enormous player base.

    It isn't the best one out there anymore, by a wide margin, but people already invested a ton of time and money into it, so they fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy and keep playing it, rather than picking up and trying out a new card game.

    If Hearthstone entered the scene fresh and new into the current digital card game landscape, in its current form, it wouldn't have a whisper of a chance of gaining traction against the better-designed games that exist right now.

    (Side note - I do not include Snap in my list of better-designed games. Snap is a nefarious bait-and-switch that lures you, hooks you, and then becomes an entirely different game once the hook is good and set in your jaws - as soon as you reach series 3.)

    • Quote From sto650

      IMO, people still play Hearthstone only because it was the first big, successful digital card game, and for a few years, it was the best one out there. During this time, it collected an enormous player base.

      It isn't the best one out there anymore, by a wide margin, but people already invested a ton of time and money into it, so they fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy and keep playing it, rather than picking up and trying out a new card game.

      If Hearthstone entered the scene fresh and new into the current digital card game landscape, in its current form, it wouldn't have a whisper of a chance of gaining traction against the better-designed games that exist right now.

      (Side note - I do not include Snap in my list of better-designed games. Snap is a nefarious bait-and-switch that lures you, hooks you, and then becomes an entirely different game once the hook is good and set in your jaws - as soon as you reach series 3.)

      Im actually curious what you would call as the best digital TCG out there, because Ive lots of friends who have been playing the old stuff like yugioh or magic and still are, never really turning into hearthstone players like myself.

      To me, hearthstone is still (likely) the most intuitive TCG currently available and that is the main reason why its not died down yet, and if all were made available at the same time it'll still be the most popular - if only because it hangs on the coatails of its much venerated cousin in warcraft.

      There's just something about dragging cards towards the face that's just satisfying, gotta admit that at least.

      Friendly
      • Quote From dapperdog

        Im actually curious what you would call as the best digital TCG out there, because Ive lots of friends who have been playing the old stuff like yugioh or magic and still are, never really turning into hearthstone players like myself.

        I've played Snap, Eternal (which is almost exactly like MTG in the mechanics, but has better use of the digital space), Hearthstone (mostly years ago, but with a couple of dips back into it after I initially stopped playing), and Legends of Runeterra.

        For me, it's not even close. Legends of Runeterra is the best by a very wide margin. It's extremely F2P, which means you can play just about any deck at any time (which has the further implication that they can do balance changes very freely without having to compensate anyone for anything). As far as the gameplay, it has very deep strategy. Watching professionals play LoR is better than watching HS pros play. It's not as exciting (because LoR doesn't have the same kind of RNG "holy cow" moments as HS, but that also means that skill is far more pivotal in LoR than it is in HS), but it's much more mentally engaging.

        Edit - In terms of HS, I just don't find it mentally engaging when the outcome of every game is pretty much 90% decided as soon as the mulligan resolves. All that remains is the two players discovering who has already won.