Card Nerf - Dragonqueen Alexstrasza

Dragonqueen Alexstrasza is having its effect changed so that it can no longer generate itself in a patch later this week.

How do you feel about this change?

Once these changes are live, players will be able to disenchant the adjusted cards for their full Arcane Dust value for two weeks.

I understand the reasoning behind it, but this nerf is just BAD.

RNG, is, by definition, a highroll thing. You can restrict or widen the pool (Dragons), but how is Dragonqueen Alexstrasza not eligible?

Why then not preventing draconic lackey from generating, say, Malygos, Aspect of Magic or Deathwing, Mad Aspect?

If they really wanted to fix this, they should have extended the nerf to ANY cards that CAN generate themselves.

Having it on just one card feels incredibly clumsy, and absolutely counterintuitive with how RNG has ALWAYS worked in HS.

While I do agree in general cards shouldn’t be able to generate themselves, it does make sense why they’d focus more on this case specifically. The others are generally a lot slower if they generate themselves, either being not that many stats on their own, or taking multiple turns to continue playing them. Alexstrasza though gives you a much bigger board for basically no cost (the only cost really being the potential to mill if you generate too many free cards).

This card is just the extreme compared to the others.

Quote From RavenSunHS

Why then not preventing draconic lackey from generating, say, Malygos, Aspect of Magic or Deathwing, Mad Aspect?

 

Because that Deathwing/Maly woudnt be a 0 mana?

Quote From RavenSunHS

Why then not preventing draconic lackey from generating, say, Malygos, Aspect of Magic or Deathwing, Mad Aspect?

Draconic Lackey doesn't generate itself, and generates just the one card through Discover. This and other cards generally don't also then cost 0 mana.

It's just a FeelsBadMan when you face a chain of powerful, mana-cheating cards. Inconsistent maybe, but this is a change I can support.

It's a good change, although I haven't experienced this situation enough times to be asking for this nerf. It's good they did this before any high level tournaments take place.

Quote From RavenSunHS

I understand the reasoning behind it, but this nerf is just BAD.

RNG, is, by definition, a highroll thing. You can restrict or widen the pool (Dragons), but how is Dragonqueen Alexstrasza not eligible?

Why then not preventing draconic lackey from generating, say, Malygos, Aspect of Magic or Deathwing, Mad Aspect?

If they really wanted to fix this, they should have extended the nerf to ANY cards that CAN generate themselves.

Having it on just one card feels incredibly clumsy, and absolutely counterintuitive with how RNG has ALWAYS worked in HS.

have you considered for a second that it's for the explicit reason of there being only a handful of dragons in the pool and that potential of her infinitely cycling into herself (with a double chance, mind you). This is a card that reads: "If your deck has no duplicates, play 2 additional dragons". this is what people expect and can reasonably play around. They cannot play around twice that amount for absolutely no reason other than "lul random".

This is the best fix to a card that isn't even super op in most other contexts. In fact, this change should be applied to MORE cards, because infinite value generation by virtue of RNG looping is stupid.

Quote From RavenSunHS

I understand the reasoning behind it, but this nerf is just BAD.

RNG, is, by definition, a highroll thing. You can restrict or widen the pool (Dragons), but how is Dragonqueen Alexstrasza not eligible?

Why then not preventing draconic lackey from generating, say, Malygos, Aspect of Magic or Deathwing, Mad Aspect?

If they really wanted to fix this, they should have extended the nerf to ANY cards that CAN generate themselves.

Having it on just one card feels incredibly clumsy, and absolutely counterintuitive with how RNG has ALWAYS worked in HS.

The Draconic Lackey part it's nonsense, why if you are "discovering" a dragon, not be able to get a pool of well... random dragons? He doesn't give you a Draconic Lackey, because it isn't a collectible neither a dragon, so...

And Dragonqueen Alexstrasza not being able to generate copies of itself is like Archivist Elysiana not being able to give copies of herself, all discover cards should be like that, because you're not looking for the same card (unless you are a combo/miracle that can benefit from it), technically you're looking for something situational, that's why you're discovering it now and not adding said card in the deck in the first place.

At least, that's how I see it.

Wait...You're telling me it was possible before? Huh, TIL, I guess.

Anyway, that's just a minor Nerf. I don't think that's gonna influence the Play-/Winrate of this Card at all.

It's not really such a nerf since you won't feel bad about it really just that you can less high roll.. this change is great, and it's really well done..

Great fix. It‘s the same for puzzle box and for good reason. I would argue it‘s even more needed for Alex than for the Box

"Dragonqueen pulls" out of Dragonqueen is just Infinite stats on board and hand for 0 mana if you have that ridiculous luck,.
Mainly you pull at least one dragonqueen out from dragonqueen by dumb luck.

There are 45 dragons in total in standard, 1/45 is a huge percent. 2,22% may doesn't say much but the RNG rate is still pretty dang good. Some other random generators has worse percentage too, not to mention they are all dragon and most dragons are very strong for 0 mana.

unless you have removal or good trades, Dragon queen can get consistant if not stopped, specially when a second one comes.

As nerf doesn't affect the card overall,  "infinite dragonqueen" rolls will finally be gone now.

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

Quote From RavenSunHS

I understand the reasoning behind it, but this nerf is just BAD.

RNG, is, by definition, a highroll thing. You can restrict or widen the pool (Dragons), but how is Dragonqueen Alexstrasza not eligible?

Why then not preventing draconic lackey from generating, say, Malygos, Aspect of Magic or Deathwing, Mad Aspect?

If they really wanted to fix this, they should have extended the nerf to ANY cards that CAN generate themselves.

Having it on just one card feels incredibly clumsy, and absolutely counterintuitive with how RNG has ALWAYS worked in HS.

In fact, this change should be applied to MORE cards, because infinite value generation by virtue of RNG looping is stupid.

This is literally what i just wrote in my 4th paragraph.

I bet those who downvoted me are also those who complain of lack of consistency in HS...

Maybe they'll finally apply this to all self-generating cards!!!! 

The nerf - not really necessary, but definitely a healthy move. The multiple Dragonqueen high-rolls will be missed, but really shouldn't be in the game.

The issue is simply that Dragonqueen Alexstrasza is alot of more powerful than the other cards able to generate themselves, and given that the pool of dragons are typically stronger than others means that its easily a win condition on its own. At 0 mana, Alex is busted and easily open to abuse (copying, sent back to the deck, etc.) not to mention giving you yet another reroll at getting specific dragons.

A good comparison is with Archivist Elysiana, which is a win condition card. There's 5 discover chances, and if even one is the archivist, then the other person might as well concede.

I get that its not consistent, and can in part agree that hearthstone should drop the 'discover itself' mechanic, but if team5 decides that this is not the path they think hearthstone should be heading, I think that's a reasonable argument. At the same time, this does not mean that they should completely ignore lop sided rng effects.

May I present: Exhibit A:

I was at 6 Health. which I'm sure my opponent would have no issues removing next turn. My only true hope, wish for a miracle from Jepetto Joybuzz pulling the Dragonqueen Alexstrasza I know is one of two minions still in my deck. 

Jepetto Joybuzz --> 1-mana Dragonqueen Alexstrasza = 2x 0-mana Dragonqueen Alexstrasza

I have 10 cards in hand, and 2x 0-mana Dragonqueens 

I play 1 to get 1 more 0 mana dragon, and get Alexstrasza to pull myself out of lethal range.

Won the following turn

I didn't deserve this win. Was it fun? Yes. Was it a fun way for my opponent to lose? No. The possibility for cards to go infinite is something they should really try and avoid. 

My biggest complaint with the nerf is that it isn't standard across all cards that could potentially generate themselves.

Nice nerf that Will give some people who don't play Highlander a free Legendary. Can't complain 

I always like it when I get Emeriss and another Dragonqueen Alexstrasza. Feels kinda good most of the time. This nerf means that chances on Emeriss are now a bit higher :) nice.

Good, now add it to all other cards which can possibly generate themselves. Going infinite on a card should not be a thing, but this was obviously the most egregious offender since it also makes the cards cost 0.

Even with this ''nerf'', she is still a singleton powerhouse.
If anything, it just tone it down to great instead of brokenly divine.

Well, after the patch i must adjust my opinion: the card text now specifies "other", while i thought the nerf would have been hidden, in a Yogg-Saron, Hope's End fashion.

Now the text itself restricts the card pool, so that's acceptable, not a clumsy hotfix.

She still can generate dragons that can discover her (like the druid 4/8 taunt or hunter 2/3 poison or the paladin 2/3 lifesteal)

I agree with the change. I just read about the card nerfs and my initial though was that this nerf was horrible. How can they make such a rule just for one card? Inconsistent rules will ruin this game in the long run, and on top of that it's poor coding to make such exceptions. I always look at the cards from a coding perspective, and if they were to implement such a rule it should be for all self-generating cards. Then it would make sense.

Changing the text for Dragonqueen Alexstrasza to include 'other' is good. Now they just need to look into this issue for all self-generating cards. I'm sure the community will appreciate it.

Quote From Alfi

She still can generate dragons that can discover her (like the druid 4/8 taunt or hunter 2/3 poison or the paladin 2/3 lifesteal)

Yes, but you have to pay full mana cost for those. Getting an 8/8, summoning *another* 8/8. You now have 2 x 8/8s and 3 zero-cost dragons in your hand. It has happened to me and it is just such a massive board swing. 

5 8-9 mana cost dragons in one turn is a winner.

It's still not enough. The dragons she generates should be 1-cost.

Quote From theo333

It's still not enough. The dragons she generates should be 1-cost.

What would be the point of the card then? When played at 9 mana you're summoning an 8/8 that doesn't affect the board. At 10 mana you're maybe playing 2 8/8's if you highroll.

At the best case scenario 1 mana dragons would essentially make Alex worse than that DH legendary that can summon 2 other high cost minions when fully upgraded. The rewards for making your deck less consistent are supposed to have a desirable payoff or there's no point in making your deck singleton.

lmao fucking called it.

Dragonqueen Alexstrasza nerf is very welcome. It was a card that was randomly deciding a win (or a loss) ... I remember a game where I was sure to win (enemy with 1 health and I had the board) and the mage got from Alexstrasza an Evasive Drakonid and a Twin Tyrant who killed two of my guys and made impossible to make last hit ...

and btw I will dust her ... only 9 more months of life in standard and if a really good deck appears in the mean time I can craft her back with the same dust ...

Healthy change IMO but still a little boring since it's such a fun card to play. I have yet to decide wether to dust it or not, Highlander Hunter/Mage should still be playable, right?

Quote From anchorm4n

What do the Wild players say? Should we dust her?

Yup, do it. And it's best to dust ALL nerfed cards for a full refund. That way, you have their value in 'liquid dust'. If decks still run those cards, then you can recraft them for no additional cost for you. If they fall out of the meta, then you got a complete refund.

And many decks are already leaving her out, for example the most popular Raza Priest on HSReplay.

Decent and a welcoming nerf - because almost every card she can generate is OP at least for 0 Mana :) 

Now you can no longer play her on 9 Or 8 with coin with 1 or 2 other strong cards coming up behind her.

I think Blizzard really should cut down on having 0-mana cards/effects. A lot of recently nerfed cards had these 0-mana discounts, and they were a bit unhealthy for the game and led to some pretty oppressive/annoying archetypes. Just look at this list:

Dragonqueen Alexstrasza - Summoning three gigantic dragons in one turn is such a huge swing; nerfing its effect to 1 mana is fair (Highlander decks can still use her)

Eye Beam - 0-mana heal 3? Disgusting

Galakrond, the Nightmare - Drawing 4 mana-less cards in a class that loves combos has always been insane, no wonder Galakrond Rogue dominated the previous meta

Dragoncaster - Allowing players to cast a 0-cost Puzzle Box of Yogg'saron will always piss off either player, it's such a roll of the dice

Twin Slice - Excellent DH tool that cost NO MANA until it was nerfed (sideways nerf though)

Even some of the Druid cards that cost (0) when you have 7+ mana crystals seem bound to be oppressive in the future. Just lessen 0-mana effects for the next expansion, that's my only wish. It just invites crazy gameplay that will make people tilt often.

I have had someone spawn another one on me before and it completely shifted the match.  I was clearly in the lead and ready to drop them  on the next turn.  Then they get Alexstrasza and the Dragonqueen Alexstrasza.  The (1) mana thing to me in negligible due to the fact that by the time they play this card, they usually have a few extra mana to play things.

so, the next nerf will be zephrys at 10 mana because he was too powerful and highlander decks cannot have consistent cards to build arround

The change is healthy for the game but the card itself is probably hot garbage now. It's highly likely that the meta won't slow down and now she requires a much slower meta to be played safely. She is pretty much going to become a 10 mana card that can't really be played if you are behind. She can't save from a bad position. She was designed as a swing card but she can't create swing turns effectively anymore. What's the point of playing a card with a restriction to your deck that doesn't produce big payoffs unless you are already winning? This is just my opinion and i may be playing the Doomsayer here but i think it's not worth using her in any deck after the change. Totally unplayable.

I completely agree with this sentiment, and I, for one, am disappointed about it. I was finding more and more often when I play highlander decks that DQA felt slower than the meta (both standard and wild) and more often than not didn't gift a solution I needed when I was behind, even when played on curve. I hope she isn't completely unplayable - it's a really fun card, and I love the highlander archetype.

I'm honestly fine with the change for Standard. It will help freshen up the meta, especially when the new rotation hits. Pull back Standard Highlander decks just a tad.

In Wild, DQ Alex is not a problem at ALL (Do any Wild games even make it to turn 9 anymore?). This nerf will be perfect if come April 2021 DQ Alex is reverted back to her former glory. 

I am fine with this nerf. Dragonqueen Alexstrasza is probably my least favorite Highlander card (not counting Inkmaster Solia). Though I do think this may be a bit too much. On turn 9 she is unplayable, and on turn 10 you get half the value for one extra mana. I will dust my copy and maybe craft Kanrethad Ebonlocke.

Quote From KANSAS

I am fine with this nerf. Dragonqueen Alexstrasza is probably my least favorite Highlander card (not counting Inkmaster Solia). Though I do think this may be a bit too much. On turn 9 she is unplayable, and on turn 10 you get half the value for one extra mana. I will dust my copy and maybe craft Kanrethad Ebonlocke.

I am assuming you play wild, why would you play ebonlocke in wild, when you can just play the card that discards your highest card and gives you 2 when it dies, for second guldan?

Quote From clawz161

Quote From KANSAS

I am fine with this nerf. Dragonqueen Alexstrasza is probably my least favorite Highlander card (not counting Inkmaster Solia). Though I do think this may be a bit too much. On turn 9 she is unplayable, and on turn 10 you get half the value for one extra mana. I will dust my copy and maybe craft Kanrethad Ebonlocke.

I am assuming you play wild, why would you play ebonlocke in wild, when you can just play the card that discards your highest card and gives you 2 when it dies, for second guldan?

So, what changes do you expect in the standard meta after the nerfs go live? Even more Druids and Warriors? Maybe Hunter making a comeback? Rogue and Mage disappearing?

Kanrethad is best in discolock, not renolock. The discount on the first half coupled with discolock's super fast draws make it able to often be free or better in just the turn you play it.

The prime is the worst part of the card in that deck.

You could run it in renolock, but that decklist is fairly tight.