I hit level 90 today, went up 5 levels. I finally got the Kazakus coin! Nice.
My play rate has seriously dwindled. I'm mostly playing on weekends now, though I play sporadically on weekdays when I feel like it. I've found a new deck that I like though: Corrupt Priest. I went the greed route and put C'Thun, the Shattered, Y'Shaarj, the Defiler, and Yogg-Saron, Master of Fate (mostly to corrupt the numerous corrupt cards in the deck; the 5-mana C'thun spells really help). I was one win away from legend with the deck until I tumbled down to Diamond 2 again thanks to a wave of Paladins.
Can't wait for the mini-set. I'm planning on reaching level 100 by the time it releases, so I'll play a lot in the upcoming week.
Overload is unique in a way that I don't think a lot of people notice. Most keywords becomes stronger the more of them you have in your deck. Your strategy is more consistent, and you can get multiple payoffs with just one trigger. Overload is the opposite, the more overload cards you have in your deck, the weaker it will be.
There is also the issue that some decks are simply better off avoiding the keyword whenever possible. You said that the keyword was dynamic and could be used by combo, control, or aggro. I disagree. On paper, you aren't losing mana since you are playing a card this turn for 1 less, and then paying 1 extra mana next turn, so it balances out. But I don't want to get a discount on my removal this turn, if it means I don't get to play Shudderwock next turn. You are committing yourself to spending mana next turn on an effect this turn, but you don't know what your opponent will do between those turns, making it difficult to plan properly.
I do agree that overload should be used on effects, not stats. An effect like a spell or battlecry will do one thing right now, making it reliable. Extra stats can be powerful, or useless depending on how long that minion gets to stay on the board.
I like overload on paper, but in practice it's just frustrating. The extra push you are getting this turn never feels as big as the setback you have to suffer later. Shaman is my favorite class, and I wish there was cooler stuff that used overload, but I as it is now I don't think the keyword is good. It might have the potential to be when done well, but compared to other class specific evergreen keywords like Combo, Choose One, or Outcast, Overload simply isn't as useful.
30th May update: Boltzmann's WILD Totem Shaman, ft. Grand Totem Eys'or
Totems, totem buffs and wide boards! Fun times with a cool Boltzmann (https://twitter.com/boltzmann2718) deck. Sometimes counting lethals is hard. So please excuse the misplays ;-)
Boltzmann provided me with an awesome guide to playing the deck. That is covered in the first few minutes of the video. This deck feels different and unique in the current meta. Boltzmann is 13-0 with this deck!
Based on the leaked image, there's no priest. No druid either. I think there are only 8 available core keywords in total, so 2 classes (and 2 races - Dwarf and Draenei) had to be left off I guess.
I really have to ask - what were they smoking when the wrote the requirements for the 10th quest?
Level up four champions in a single game. And do it twice. In match-made games, not AI.
Now, most of the time you don't even level up two champions, which is all you normally even have in your deck. This is asking you to have 4 different champions in your deck. Draw all four of them. Level all four of them, and play all four of them. Against another real person, in a game you couldn't have planned out in advance because it's match-made.
Yeah, good luck managing to get those stars to align even once. Let alone twice.
I will be shocked beyond imagination if anyone in the entire game manages to pull that off before they just summon 20 champions.
Or I guess you can manage to Activate the Sun disc with two level 2 ascended champs on the board. But that means you're playing mono-Shurima. And again, this has to be against a real person, who has to stay and wait for the animations. So yeah, definitely easier than the first scenario ... but still seems unlikely to be pulled off before just summoning 20 champions.
There are some equally curious quest completion requirements in the second even questline, I wonder if this is a stealthy way for them to test some initial achievement system. They do indeed feel rather harsh to complete.
Interesting..... You might want to doublecheck which version of a card you use.
Check the Holy Nova. The version that is in Core is 4 mana, not 5, yet both the mouseover and the image in the article use the Classic version, which is 5 mana.
I have to agree that overload cards are constrained to a fine line between weak and broken, entirely because cheating things out early always makes them much more powerful even if you have to pay more for them overall (turn 1 Yeti comes to mind). On the flip side, overload does have a built-in limit on how early you can play a card. From a gameplay standpoint I feel that makes it a better alternative to druid's mana ramp, especially the quick stuff like old Innervate*, which too often creates one-sided games where the opponent just never had any chance, and the devs can't really do anything to change that because it isn't localised to individual cards.
* For the sake of separating the two mechanics, let's pretend Lightning Bloom doesn't exist.
I suppose it is also worth mentioning that overload isn't the only thing that requires special care when being balanced. The Caravans are a current example of where there is no 'fair' design space: 1 stat point makes the difference between too weak and too strong. So yes, overload is more tricky to balance than some other keywords, but it is not a uniquely difficult challenge.
For overloaded minions especially (and pseudo-minions like Feral Spirit), it is probably best for the overload to give you an effect rather than just stats. E.g. more like Jinyu Waterspeaker than Flamewreathed Faceless. That way it feels better for both players: the shaman knows they will get value out of the overload, and the opponent won't auto-lose games just because their class has no good way of dealing with a 4 mana 7/7. It is still going to be a narrow balancing act, but if the effect is situational (as most are) then it gives the devs a bit more freedom.
Regarding your examples of bad overload card, I can defend most of them quite easily.
Voltaic Burst actually makes a lot of sense with overload when you consider that at the point rush was still a new mechanic, 1-mana summon 2 1/1s (without rush!) was a well established good effect, and the set it was in had synergy for both overload and elementals. The fact Wound Prey is usually stronger doesn't mean it was wrong for Voltaic Burst to have overload.
Mark of the Lotus is one of the most powerful cards in the game's history, and was only allowed to stay that way because it was an era when Blizz rarely nerfed cards and because it was in druid, which is the class that is strongest at wide-board buffs. Storm's Wrath is really just an appropriate iteration on that for a class that is not meant to be quite so good at buffing wide boards.
Finders Keepers was clearly intended for decks that wanted to overload crystals (this was the year of Tunnel Trogg's dominance, so that's not a ridiculous sentence). It's job was to help guarantee that, and not so much to be a normal discover effect.
As for Neptulon, he should definitely have some overload, but maybe 3 is a bit too much.
There is some merit to asking whether we would benefit from removing overload entirely (at least from Standard). I would lean towards no because I think the mechanic is useful in keeping shaman feeling unique and I don't believe it is actually shaman's problem, despite what some people argue. Maybe I'll revisit that stance when shaman has card draw and win conditions yet still goes nowhere. For now though, I think the mechanic is good for the class to have, and if anything I'd like more synergy for it so our human brains can (re-)learn to not just treat it like a nuisance.
A card that eats minions from the hand, not the board. That's a first. Probably costs too much to be really good, and you probably often not hit their key minion.
Its a strong arena card while in standard its just decent. The real strength of the card is the rng effect attached to the 2/2 so you'll almost never kill the ooze unless you can deal with the 2/2 as well.
But I feel only paladin and dhunters can get the best out of this card.
Alright, so now that there's a proper thread opened up for discussion, I'm keen on putting down some thoughts on the overload mechanic. Let's start by addressing the issue which I have unfortunately exaggerated for effect by mistake previously.
I agree with your sentiment that no mechanic is inherently weak (or bad) because like most other things in hearthstone, team5 can push any card or keyword towards any direction as they see fit, and metas are constantly changing so what is accepted then or now can easily be reversed with the release of new cards.
Your list more or less mirrors my own, so I'll just add the one con which is not in it;
- On a design standpoint, overload cards have the unique burden of the need to be inherently good for its cost. You'd ideally want the card to be stronger than the rest, but not so strong that it wins the game outright. That fine balance is then further complicated with the amount of overload to be attached. In effect, its double-layering a process that, let's be honest here, team5 have not always been successful with. For example, Totem Goliath is a strong card but is a 5/5 deathrattle spawn 4 basic totem really worth 5 mana with 2 overload? Evidently not, since its been buffed to only overload for 1 now. Let's assume another buff: that it now only cost 4 mana, and suddenly the card seems too strong even with 2 overload on it.
How do you design an overload card that's supposed to be stronger than other cards of the same mana cost but not broken? The question can also easily be: do we need to design around overload at all? Team5 answers this in the affirmative because they have, from time to time, created cards that synergizes with overload, but that adds yet another unnecessary layer to properly balance all these cards. Hence why, I suspect, that we don't see cards like Lava Shock or Snowfury Giant added into the core set, or why we rarely ever see any new cards of these sort at all.
Also, the poor public opinion on the overload mechanic can partly be attributed to this bizarre 'need' to tack overload onto cards just because. It certainly doesn't help in comparison with cards other classes have. A few common examples would be cards like Neptulon (a joke of a card back then as it still is now, the overload for 3 certainly didn't help), Voltaic Burst (Wound Prey does the same with no drawback), Storm's Wrath (a genuinely good card on its own. Too bad Mark of the Lotus has the same exact words printed on it without the drawback) or Finders Keepers (which is basically the studies card with a reverse drawback). Obviously there are good overload cards that makes sense like Jinyu Waterspeaker and Flamewreathed Faceless who actually give more than they take, but these are in the tiny minority, and I do mean tiny. Like the smallest shrimp in a troupe.
So in conclusion, for me: overload is not inherently bad or weak. But like the inspire mechanic, there's no reason to crack your head just to create more of it. Many of shaman's best cards aren't even overload cards, and at its very best is usually as a finisher anyway when overload is a mere afterthought.
But if we really want to do it, then do it right. Like flamewreathed faceless and jinyu waterspeaker. Not so much like the recent card Mistrunner, for example. You can remove the overload from this card and it'll still be just decent.
Pretty sure that it's just going to be used as a draw mechanic. On the off chance it discounts something hooray, but chances are it won't and it'll just give you a free spell draw (which nobody will complain about unless there's a mill deck incoming).
Rewards Track: Current progress 2.0
I hit level 90 today, went up 5 levels. I finally got the Kazakus coin! Nice.
My play rate has seriously dwindled. I'm mostly playing on weekends now, though I play sporadically on weekdays when I feel like it. I've found a new deck that I like though: Corrupt Priest. I went the greed route and put C'Thun, the Shattered, Y'Shaarj, the Defiler, and Yogg-Saron, Master of Fate (mostly to corrupt the numerous corrupt cards in the deck; the 5-mana C'thun spells really help). I was one win away from legend with the deck until I tumbled down to Diamond 2 again thanks to a wave of Paladins.
Can't wait for the mini-set. I'm planning on reaching level 100 by the time it releases, so I'll play a lot in the upcoming week.
Is overload a good keyword?
Overload is unique in a way that I don't think a lot of people notice. Most keywords becomes stronger the more of them you have in your deck. Your strategy is more consistent, and you can get multiple payoffs with just one trigger. Overload is the opposite, the more overload cards you have in your deck, the weaker it will be.
There is also the issue that some decks are simply better off avoiding the keyword whenever possible. You said that the keyword was dynamic and could be used by combo, control, or aggro. I disagree. On paper, you aren't losing mana since you are playing a card this turn for 1 less, and then paying 1 extra mana next turn, so it balances out. But I don't want to get a discount on my removal this turn, if it means I don't get to play Shudderwock next turn. You are committing yourself to spending mana next turn on an effect this turn, but you don't know what your opponent will do between those turns, making it difficult to plan properly.
I do agree that overload should be used on effects, not stats. An effect like a spell or battlecry will do one thing right now, making it reliable. Extra stats can be powerful, or useless depending on how long that minion gets to stay on the board.
I like overload on paper, but in practice it's just frustrating. The extra push you are getting this turn never feels as big as the setback you have to suffer later. Shaman is my favorite class, and I wish there was cooler stuff that used overload, but I as it is now I don't think the keyword is good. It might have the potential to be when done well, but compared to other class specific evergreen keywords like Combo, Choose One, or Outcast, Overload simply isn't as useful.
Darkseeker's channel - 13th November update: KOtsosKOtsos' Reno Evolve Shudderwock Shaman - ft. Archivist Elysiana
30th May update: Boltzmann's WILD Totem Shaman, ft. Grand Totem Eys'or
Totems, totem buffs and wide boards! Fun times with a cool Boltzmann (https://twitter.com/boltzmann2718) deck. Sometimes counting lethals is hard. So please excuse the misplays ;-)
Boltzmann provided me with an awesome guide to playing the deck. That is covered in the first few minutes of the video.
This deck feels different and unique in the current meta.
Boltzmann is 13-0 with this deck!
Deck code: AAEBAaoIAqreA9/hAw6+BvAHshTKFvuqAp2jA9qlA/mlA/2nA7WtA5a5A5vNA/TfA/+fBAA=
https://youtu.be/19OfbikBGU0
CONCERNEDMOM's Ragnaros Priest
You'll never ever draw it because of Sphere of Sapience.
CONCERNEDMOM's Ragnaros Priest
Took out 1x Excavated Evil and added 1x Blood og G'huun.
Going better now
Especially if I draw Rag, since you can't summon him before turn 8.
My Packs
Leave to forums if you dont communicate.
noone needs your shitty experiences or opinions if you respond like this.
Hearthstone's Wailing Caverns Mini-Set Adventurers Tokens - What We Know So Far
Based on the leaked image, there's no priest. No druid either. I think there are only 8 available core keywords in total, so 2 classes (and 2 races - Dwarf and Draenei) had to be left off I guess.
Happy 2nd Birthday Out of Cards
Thanks for the hard work folks! ♡
Runeterra Dark Horizon Event Quests
There are some equally curious quest completion requirements in the second even questline, I wonder if this is a stealthy way for them to test some initial achievement system. They do indeed feel rather harsh to complete.
Ultimate God Priest Deck List and Guide - Memes and Dreams #18
What a horrible deck to play against this is
I Want Your Custom Champion Proposals
Strongly recommend to watch it (:
Ultimate God Priest Deck List and Guide - Memes and Dreams #18
Interesting..... You might want to doublecheck which version of a card you use.
Check the Holy Nova. The version that is in Core is 4 mana, not 5, yet both the mouseover and the image in the article use the Classic version, which is 5 mana.
Is overload a good keyword?
I have to agree that overload cards are constrained to a fine line between weak and broken, entirely because cheating things out early always makes them much more powerful even if you have to pay more for them overall (turn 1 Yeti comes to mind). On the flip side, overload does have a built-in limit on how early you can play a card. From a gameplay standpoint I feel that makes it a better alternative to druid's mana ramp, especially the quick stuff like old Innervate*, which too often creates one-sided games where the opponent just never had any chance, and the devs can't really do anything to change that because it isn't localised to individual cards.
* For the sake of separating the two mechanics, let's pretend Lightning Bloom doesn't exist.
I suppose it is also worth mentioning that overload isn't the only thing that requires special care when being balanced. The Caravans are a current example of where there is no 'fair' design space: 1 stat point makes the difference between too weak and too strong. So yes, overload is more tricky to balance than some other keywords, but it is not a uniquely difficult challenge.
For overloaded minions especially (and pseudo-minions like Feral Spirit), it is probably best for the overload to give you an effect rather than just stats. E.g. more like Jinyu Waterspeaker than Flamewreathed Faceless. That way it feels better for both players: the shaman knows they will get value out of the overload, and the opponent won't auto-lose games just because their class has no good way of dealing with a 4 mana 7/7. It is still going to be a narrow balancing act, but if the effect is situational (as most are) then it gives the devs a bit more freedom.
Regarding your examples of bad overload card, I can defend most of them quite easily.
There is some merit to asking whether we would benefit from removing overload entirely (at least from Standard). I would lean towards no because I think the mechanic is useful in keeping shaman feeling unique and I don't believe it is actually shaman's problem, despite what some people argue. Maybe I'll revisit that stance when shaman has card draw and win conditions yet still goes nowhere. For now though, I think the mechanic is good for the class to have, and if anything I'd like more synergy for it so our human brains can (re-)learn to not just treat it like a nuisance.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
I would be better in this OTK deck,
But long ago they broke me a neck.
And I still can't win this charge race,
Because I only take second place.
New Priest Minion - Devout Dungeoneer
Seems decent. You probably don't want to cut all non-holy spells, but it will be nice when you get lucky and hit Holy Nova or something.
New Mage Minion - Frostweave Dungeoneer
Maybe if Freeze Mage becomes a thing. For now, nah.
New Neutral Minion - Mutanus the Devourer
A card that eats minions from the hand, not the board. That's a first. Probably costs too much to be really good, and you probably often not hit their key minion.
New Shaman Minion - Primal Dungeoneer
This should be good, especially for an elemental deck. Shaman has lots of nature spells.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
R Right!
Mutanus the Devourer
Toy sailboat. That dude is actually in Wailing Caverns and is just standard sized boss murloc. Not huge, just dungeon boss humanoid.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Less flashy? So its non-legendary cards? Then there is a lot of variants. Twilight Drake & Midnight Drake
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Both are really really close, Tryn is closer.
Hearthstone's Wailing Caverns Mini-Set Adventurers Tokens - What We Know So Far
Its a strong arena card while in standard its just decent. The real strength of the card is the rng effect attached to the 2/2 so you'll almost never kill the ooze unless you can deal with the 2/2 as well.
But I feel only paladin and dhunters can get the best out of this card.
Is overload a good keyword?
Alright, so now that there's a proper thread opened up for discussion, I'm keen on putting down some thoughts on the overload mechanic. Let's start by addressing the issue which I have unfortunately exaggerated for effect by mistake previously.
I agree with your sentiment that no mechanic is inherently weak (or bad) because like most other things in hearthstone, team5 can push any card or keyword towards any direction as they see fit, and metas are constantly changing so what is accepted then or now can easily be reversed with the release of new cards.
Your list more or less mirrors my own, so I'll just add the one con which is not in it;
- On a design standpoint, overload cards have the unique burden of the need to be inherently good for its cost. You'd ideally want the card to be stronger than the rest, but not so strong that it wins the game outright. That fine balance is then further complicated with the amount of overload to be attached. In effect, its double-layering a process that, let's be honest here, team5 have not always been successful with. For example, Totem Goliath is a strong card but is a 5/5 deathrattle spawn 4 basic totem really worth 5 mana with 2 overload? Evidently not, since its been buffed to only overload for 1 now. Let's assume another buff: that it now only cost 4 mana, and suddenly the card seems too strong even with 2 overload on it.
How do you design an overload card that's supposed to be stronger than other cards of the same mana cost but not broken? The question can also easily be: do we need to design around overload at all? Team5 answers this in the affirmative because they have, from time to time, created cards that synergizes with overload, but that adds yet another unnecessary layer to properly balance all these cards. Hence why, I suspect, that we don't see cards like Lava Shock or Snowfury Giant added into the core set, or why we rarely ever see any new cards of these sort at all.
Also, the poor public opinion on the overload mechanic can partly be attributed to this bizarre 'need' to tack overload onto cards just because. It certainly doesn't help in comparison with cards other classes have. A few common examples would be cards like Neptulon (a joke of a card back then as it still is now, the overload for 3 certainly didn't help), Voltaic Burst (Wound Prey does the same with no drawback), Storm's Wrath (a genuinely good card on its own. Too bad Mark of the Lotus has the same exact words printed on it without the drawback) or Finders Keepers (which is basically the studies card with a reverse drawback). Obviously there are good overload cards that makes sense like Jinyu Waterspeaker and Flamewreathed Faceless who actually give more than they take, but these are in the tiny minority, and I do mean tiny. Like the smallest shrimp in a troupe.
So in conclusion, for me: overload is not inherently bad or weak. But like the inspire mechanic, there's no reason to crack your head just to create more of it. Many of shaman's best cards aren't even overload cards, and at its very best is usually as a finisher anyway when overload is a mere afterthought.
But if we really want to do it, then do it right. Like flamewreathed faceless and jinyu waterspeaker. Not so much like the recent card Mistrunner, for example. You can remove the overload from this card and it'll still be just decent.
New Priest Minion - Devout Dungeoneer
Pretty sure that it's just going to be used as a draw mechanic. On the off chance it discounts something hooray, but chances are it won't and it'll just give you a free spell draw (which nobody will complain about unless there's a mill deck incoming).