I don't think Jaraxxus is that big of a problem, because he only really punishes Control decks that have no win condition.
A well timed Rattlegore can shut Warlock down quite easily, regardless of Jaraxxus. If you're talking about Control Priest, that's just because the deck doesn't have a real win condition (or way to get there yet).
Personally I think that JAraxxus is way overhyped. Realistically, he is unchanged from his previous iteration in pure control matchups because there the health total didn't really matter anyways.
Honestly, i think an overlooked problem in Control Warlock (and other decks in general) is Strongman because that card completely negates the "slow tax" that you would have to pay for really nutty cards like Jaraxxus and Survival of the Fittest.
Either way, getting rid of Tickatus (or just making the cost of playing Tickatus much greater by either turning it into a symmetrical effect or just increasing the mana cost to make corrupting it much harder) is the most important step just because he invalidates other control decks and keeps contributing to the false impression that Warlock is always op when they have healing (they're not, it just so happens that everytime they get proper healing cards they also get an unbeatable win condition shoved up their ass)
I don't think we ever had a first week meta that was so bad that basically any and all meme decks are completely unplayable because you can't actually win these matchups without going hard on the turn 1 tempo.
I'm not sure how you have forgotten about Galakrond Shaman and DH at the start of AoO so quickly. It's not just a recent thing either. When they added quests in Un'Goro? Say hello to a meta of Pirate Warrior vs Quest Rogue, where you want to play control to beat the warriors but then rogues beat you up.
When they added hero cards and decided death knights don't need to obey class identity in the Frozen Throne? Druid dominates. At least it was so powerful you could play meme druid decks to good success, I suppose.
Do I even need to mention Genn and Baku, who were only better because they were neutral and made several things problematic at once.
So no, this is not a uniquely bad start, but instead seems to be a common symptom of adding fancy new things without the capacity to test them fully. In this case the move from Classic to Core sets threw a lot of decks in the air, and I appreciate how hard it was to see where they'd all land. I'm still willing to point fingers where its obvious though (I'm looking at you Galakrond Shaman).
I ended up with 3 weekly ranked quest this week. I believe it still work even with the hotfix. And this is better than waiting for those rare daily quest. Because this week, I just got 1500 xp more than the usual.
I cant understand ppl that say random is fun. U literally arent playing a win con game. No startegy just trust on the gaming gods. How is that fun? U win not ur fault u lose not ur fault. Fun?
The funniest part is that people are so preoccupied with trying to abuse Mage that they don't realise that Paladin is even stronger because it literally doesn't have a counter.
I really hope we get a hotfix this week or else I'll just complete my dailies in Tavern Brawl and not touch the game otherwise.
I don't think we ever had a first week meta that was so bad that basically any and all meme decks are completely unplayable because you can't actually win these matchups without going hard on the turn 1 tempo.
Come to think of it, there's so many cards that are bizarrely overtuned that this might end up one of the largest nerf patches for a specific class since the Demon Hunter debacle.
The deck is fun because of the randomness. It's really fun to play cards from other classes, especially one's I seldom play. It's honestly the most fun I've had in Hearthstone in years...
That has always been the basis of Burgle Rogue (BR), which has been my own favourite archetype for years. There are several reasons why I think BR is a fundamentally better design than Lunacy Mage (LM), but by far the biggest one is simply that they always kept the power level of BR inside a 'Goldilocks zone' for casual decks: it has decent win rates for casual players, but never approached tier 1 where it would flood the meta with excessive RNG.
Becoming powerful enough to leave that Goldilocks zone is a dangerous business. Partly because any tier 1 deck will be hated by the community as a whole, and partly because the deck will now have a real impact on the legitimacy of competitive Hearthstone. Randomness in card draw is one thing, but a deck based entirely on RNG is quite another. OG Yogg was nerfed for this reason, and Deck of Lunacy has become a much bigger offender than he ever was.
So ultimately, LM is really bad for the game so long as it remains powerful. I agree that the randomness adds to the fun of playing it, but it is also the best reason why it should not be allowed near tier 1.
Sadly for Deck of Lunacy itself, I just don't think it can stay at 2 mana anymore. Turn 3 is just too early to be drawing into the transformed cards when the card pool is as good as it is now.
I think that would be fine, I don't think Pen Flinger needs to be killed outright. Making it only target minions would block the lategame Libram of Wisdom + Pen Flinger infinite damage combo, and would make it so Rogue can only use it for tempo and not as a finisher. Making it 2 mana would kill the card completely, which would be a shame since it's still an interesting card. I do like your suggestion of making Librams cost at least 1 mana, it's another example of why 0 mana cards are usually a very bad idea.
I don't know if it would be sufficient if Pen Flinger could only target minions. Most of the time it's used to clear your board after the your value trades or to get through that taunt minion you played. And having Rogue in mind this card has to be shut down completely by making it 2 mana imho.
Additionally I would propose that Librams should cost at least 1.
Is it possible to link to the golden version of Hearthstone cards? @Flux, please also post the internal documentation for Hearthstone BBCode here? Thanks in advance! 😉
Seems a bit off-topic question since the thread was originally about MTG, but anyway the answer is yes. Sinti's BBCode guide has pretty much all the tips and tricks that we currently have, except Set="Core 2021".
It's an otk deck. You play mozaki in the late game, spam a bunch of discounted spells, then obliterate your opponent's face with your insane spell damage and arcane missiles / frost bolts
I must be a really bad paladin player coz I have no idea how that secret paladin list made it to tier 1. All my opponents play around my secrets and I never have enough secrets for any real Cannonmaster Smythe value. The 2 libram lists above perform so much better, so clearly I'm doing something wrong 🤷♀️
Yeah, this state of the game is absolutely unsustainable. A few days ago it was even more Mage, but people have realised that Paladin is even stronger. Last saturday over 80% of my games were against Mage (the rest being against Paladin), now it's about 60% mage 30% Paladin 10% other. Add to this the huge amount of bugs (friends list, disconnects, Oh My Yogg!) and the game becomes nearly unplayable. We need balance changes today, before all the players who came back for the Core Set and FitB leave again. I've already seen it happen with some friends. Excited to try out the game again, get their face beaten in by endless Mages and Paladins, uninstall. These are the changes I would make:
Deck of Lunacy: 2 mana -> 4 mana (or spells that cost 3 more -> spells that cost 1 more)
Refreshing Spring Water: 4 mana -> 6 mana (or refresh 2 mana crystals -> refresh 1 mana crystal)
If they DO nerf Luna*cy, how do they? Doesn't matter if the mana cost is tacked +2 or 3. Reduce the discount on the generated spells? Make it mage only spells?
They should make it to generate spells from whole pool, including WIld. This will dillute the pool with lotsa bad spells. And remains a very funny meme.
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity :)
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
I played DH release and Galakrond Shaman meta and I find the current meta much worse.
Free Card Pack Drops Return to Hearthstone Grandmasters Streams, Masters Tour, and World Championship
i have made the connection, but youtube doesn't ask me anything about my Battlenet account. How they know who am I ?
Can we talk about Jaraxxus yet?
I don't think Jaraxxus is that big of a problem, because he only really punishes Control decks that have no win condition.
A well timed Rattlegore can shut Warlock down quite easily, regardless of Jaraxxus. If you're talking about Control Priest, that's just because the deck doesn't have a real win condition (or way to get there yet).
Personally I think that JAraxxus is way overhyped. Realistically, he is unchanged from his previous iteration in pure control matchups because there the health total didn't really matter anyways.
Honestly, i think an overlooked problem in Control Warlock (and other decks in general) is Strongman because that card completely negates the "slow tax" that you would have to pay for really nutty cards like Jaraxxus and Survival of the Fittest.
Either way, getting rid of Tickatus (or just making the cost of playing Tickatus much greater by either turning it into a symmetrical effect or just increasing the mana cost to make corrupting it much harder) is the most important step just because he invalidates other control decks and keeps contributing to the false impression that Warlock is always op when they have healing (they're not, it just so happens that everytime they get proper healing cards they also get an unbeatable win condition shoved up their ass)
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
I'm not sure how you have forgotten about Galakrond Shaman and DH at the start of AoO so quickly. It's not just a recent thing either. When they added quests in Un'Goro? Say hello to a meta of Pirate Warrior vs Quest Rogue, where you want to play control to beat the warriors but then rogues beat you up.
When they added hero cards and decided death knights don't need to obey class identity in the Frozen Throne? Druid dominates. At least it was so powerful you could play meme druid decks to good success, I suppose.
Do I even need to mention Genn and Baku, who were only better because they were neutral and made several things problematic at once.
So no, this is not a uniquely bad start, but instead seems to be a common symptom of adding fancy new things without the capacity to test them fully. In this case the move from Classic to Core sets threw a lot of decks in the air, and I appreciate how hard it was to see where they'd all land. I'm still willing to point fingers where its obvious though (I'm looking at you Galakrond Shaman).
Free Card Pack Drops Return to Hearthstone Grandmasters Streams, Masters Tour, and World Championship
Great News! I always thought that feature really pushed the eSports scene even if the meta is not that fun to wathc in a specified time!
Free Card Pack Drops Return to Hearthstone Grandmasters Streams, Masters Tour, and World Championship
Nice! Would have watched it even without the packs. But I really hope they'll fix the meta before.
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
Exactly don't understand that WR at all and even I have faced almost no secret paladins last 3 days.
Howto: Win-5-Ranked Weekly Quest twice
I ended up with 3 weekly ranked quest this week. I believe it still work even with the hotfix. And this is better than waiting for those rare daily quest. Because this week, I just got 1500 xp more than the usual.
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
don't forget Murloc Crabrider.
Why the fuck is there a 2-mana 1/4 with Rush AND windfury that just so happens to perfectly scale with Hand of A'dal.
Also, why are Caravans 1/3s. Buff those to 1/4 for fuck's sake
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
I cant understand ppl that say random is fun. U literally arent playing a win con game. No startegy just trust on the gaming gods. How is that fun? U win not ur fault u lose not ur fault. Fun?
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
The funniest part is that people are so preoccupied with trying to abuse Mage that they don't realise that Paladin is even stronger because it literally doesn't have a counter.
I really hope we get a hotfix this week or else I'll just complete my dailies in Tavern Brawl and not touch the game otherwise.
I don't think we ever had a first week meta that was so bad that basically any and all meme decks are completely unplayable because you can't actually win these matchups without going hard on the turn 1 tempo.
Come to think of it, there's so many cards that are bizarrely overtuned that this might end up one of the largest nerf patches for a specific class since the Demon Hunter debacle.
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
While they're at it, maybe they could speed up the animation like 90% for Pen Flinger.
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
That has always been the basis of Burgle Rogue (BR), which has been my own favourite archetype for years. There are several reasons why I think BR is a fundamentally better design than Lunacy Mage (LM), but by far the biggest one is simply that they always kept the power level of BR inside a 'Goldilocks zone' for casual decks: it has decent win rates for casual players, but never approached tier 1 where it would flood the meta with excessive RNG.
Becoming powerful enough to leave that Goldilocks zone is a dangerous business. Partly because any tier 1 deck will be hated by the community as a whole, and partly because the deck will now have a real impact on the legitimacy of competitive Hearthstone. Randomness in card draw is one thing, but a deck based entirely on RNG is quite another. OG Yogg was nerfed for this reason, and Deck of Lunacy has become a much bigger offender than he ever was.
So ultimately, LM is really bad for the game so long as it remains powerful. I agree that the randomness adds to the fun of playing it, but it is also the best reason why it should not be allowed near tier 1.
Sadly for Deck of Lunacy itself, I just don't think it can stay at 2 mana anymore. Turn 3 is just too early to be drawing into the transformed cards when the card pool is as good as it is now.
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
I think that would be fine, I don't think Pen Flinger needs to be killed outright. Making it only target minions would block the lategame Libram of Wisdom + Pen Flinger infinite damage combo, and would make it so Rogue can only use it for tempo and not as a finisher. Making it 2 mana would kill the card completely, which would be a shame since it's still an interesting card. I do like your suggestion of making Librams cost at least 1 mana, it's another example of why 0 mana cards are usually a very bad idea.
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
I don't know if it would be sufficient if Pen Flinger could only target minions. Most of the time it's used to clear your board after the your value trades or to get through that taunt minion you played. And having Rogue in mind this card has to be shut down completely by making it 2 mana imho.
Additionally I would propose that Librams should cost at least 1.
Linking MTG cards via forum posts
Seems a bit off-topic question since the thread was originally about MTG, but anyway the answer is yes. Sinti's BBCode guide has pretty much all the tips and tricks that we currently have, except Set="Core 2021".
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
Completely agree.
I think something died inside me when Thijs (who usually plays off meta) play lunacy mage. Just couldn't watch the stream anymore.
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
same here
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
It's an otk deck. You play mozaki in the late game, spam a bunch of discounted spells, then obliterate your opponent's face with your insane spell damage and arcane missiles / frost bolts
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
I must be a really bad paladin player coz I have no idea how that secret paladin list made it to tier 1. All my opponents play around my secrets and I never have enough secrets for any real Cannonmaster Smythe value. The 2 libram lists above perform so much better, so clearly I'm doing something wrong 🤷♀️
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
Actually it can be 29 = 7 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 2 + 5*1
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
Yeah, this state of the game is absolutely unsustainable. A few days ago it was even more Mage, but people have realised that Paladin is even stronger. Last saturday over 80% of my games were against Mage (the rest being against Paladin), now it's about 60% mage 30% Paladin 10% other. Add to this the huge amount of bugs (friends list, disconnects, Oh My Yogg!) and the game becomes nearly unplayable. We need balance changes today, before all the players who came back for the Core Set and FitB leave again. I've already seen it happen with some friends. Excited to try out the game again, get their face beaten in by endless Mages and Paladins, uninstall. These are the changes I would make:
Deck of Lunacy: 2 mana -> 4 mana (or spells that cost 3 more -> spells that cost 1 more)
Refreshing Spring Water: 4 mana -> 6 mana (or refresh 2 mana crystals -> refresh 1 mana crystal)
Sword of the Fallen: 3 durability -> 2 durability
Pen Flinger: deal 1 damage -> deal 1 damage to a minion
Aldor Attendant: 1/3 -> 1/2
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
Well, yesterday I got Turn 2 Deck of Lunacy, turn 3 Skull of Gul'dan, turn 4 discounted Runic Carvings into Survival of the Fittest.
4 6/6 minions on turn 4.
And this nonsense woirks almost all the time.
Mage and Paladin are Dominating Hearthstone's Forged in the Barrens Meta With Over 50% of Decks Played
They should make it to generate spells from whole pool, including WIld. This will dillute the pool with lotsa bad spells. And remains a very funny meme.