1- Make elusives cost-inefficient; 2- Elusives lose the keyword elusive after a block/attack; 3- Elusives go back to the hand after a block/attack; 4- All Elusives have 1 HP; 5- Elusives can only block other Elusives; 6- Print a new Keyword: "Ward". Ward -> The unit and adjacent units can block Elusives; 7- Print situational spells that remove the Keywords: Elusive/Fearsome/Overwhelm. 8- Print units that can steal/remove Keywords; 9- Elusives can be blocked by any unit but they don't receive combat damage from non-elusive minions.
The Beardo variant is indeed faster, the reason I switched to the Panda variant personally after months of playing the deck was that the Beardo version folds to Skulking Geist (Jade Druid is currently T1), gets halted by Loatheb and above all, it needs to have all its numerous pieces ready in hand for Thaurissan. Very, very often, at least one of the pieces gets stuck somewhere deep in the deck and then you have to draw it, set up with Thaurissan and then execute it. In the Panda version, if all you're missing is the Garrison Commander, you can execute the combo the instant you draw it and generally, the Panda variant can just play out its combo pieces as it goes along and spends less time treading water. I've found that having to hold the pieces for the Thaurissan tick often prevented me from actually drawing through my deck due to hand size issues.
As for the quest, I'd generally advise against it. Starting hand is important and Novice Engineer goes very nicely together with Crystology. I'd go so far as to disagree that Quest Mage draws through its deck faster. Between Crystology, Novice Engineer, Acolyte, Solemn Vigil, Thalnos and Flash of Light, I've frequently outdrawn Star Aligner Druids back in the day. As in, I was nearing fatigue by turn 9.
For illustration, here are the two Paladin lists I run:
I have an Exodia list that runs Beardo, Thaurissan and 1-cost mana spells. It's faster and more reliable than the ones with pandas to bounce the cavaliers. It can win against other controlly decks and even some aggro, when you draw well (Shirvallah + Uther weapon = almost Reno). I'll post the list soon, very fun to play and cheap.
I'm not a paladin player, but I think that the meta is just too fast for a normal paladin control or even combo build. Quest mage cycles through its deck faster than you and you can't time the Time Out!s consistently enough. As a Quest Priest I manage to beat that deck with taunts, but if a paladin tries to make an N'zoth deck, it will get crushed by the value of other strong control(ish) decks like Cubelock, Jade Druid.
So the current environment is not optimal for a control build like IMarcusl said. Btw that user made a really good list, I must admit. I would like to add, that the new Uther OTK decklist runs A quest, just so you get coins from the 3/2s and a better body from the explorers in comparison to the Novice Engineers.
Thank you for your response. I have found that having consistent face works pretty well as a late game plan but I don't have that much experience with a lot of the cards before ungoro. I've played with kangors and making mummy but they really die early and are not consistent late.
You are probably right about the midgame cards. I figured they'd be helpful in getting to the necessary removals around 6 or 7.
Thanks again for the opinion and I'll let you know if I can get the deck to work.
He provides the needed stats to what would otherwise be crappy 1-drops that are supposed to be beefy and getting Rushed out with our Magic Carpet (or just being a neussiance in their own right)
I'd just run the Shieldbearer version if you can't craft.
Thanks for the reply. That's fair enough..
I hate being that guy, asking replacement for a key card lol. Good to know you think it's not playable without him. Cheers
Personally, I don't think Paladin has the tools for a viable control variant, and that's coming from someone who tends to make a control/value everything. In face of Bloodreaver Guldans, N'Zoths, Shadowreaper Anduins, Resurrect Priests, Shudderwock Shamans...Paladin really does not have much to offer. There are essentially four routes I think might be worth considering, but none of these will play out as your classic control/value deck.
1) Mech Paladin with Kangor's Endless Army. This is about as close to a good N'Zoth effect as Paladin can get. Alternatively, the deck can go the route of the Making Mummies quest to keep duplicating Mechano Eggs or Mechanical Whelps, but that goes somewhat against the Endless Army gameplan.
2) Buff Paladin. This is more of a midrange option that lays down early, hard-to-remove minions like Righteous Protector or Argent Squire and then turns them into monsters through Librams, Hand of A'dal, Blessing of Kings, Spikeridge Steed etc. Most of the time the deck will try to end the game early by quickly pushing damage, but if that does not pan out, it can switch to a slower value plan with Lady Liadrin giving you another go on all your powerful buffs such as Libram of Hope, and Lynessa Sunsorrow becoming a huge monster with several Steed deathrattles and Libram of Hope summons generating a sturdy board. Can also be played as Pure Paladin.
3) Murloc OTK Paladin. Generally plays a control gameplan and tries to only land several key murlocs: Ol' Murkeye, Bluegill Warrior and Murloc Warleader, then revives them all, twice, with Anyfin Can Happen for an instant kill.
4) Uther OTK Paladin. Plays a control, draw and survival gameplan similar to the Murloc OTK, but instead OTKs with Uther of the Ebon Blade using Youthful Brewmasters to bounce 2 different Knights from the hero power, then finishes off with Garrison Commander for the remaining two.
Personally only have experience with the Buff Paladin and Uther OTK variants and neither of these play the control/value plan. The only card any of these use from what you listed is Forbidden Healing in the Uther OTK. Coghammer is much better for aggressive/tempo decks, Corpsetaker swings more towards the midrange. Eadric the Pure is more like Eadric the Poor and Enter the Coliseum is generally not used due to Equality, Shrink Ray and now Libram of Justice offering a more reliable board clear.
I have another idea for the mage secret instead of Spell Capture. The reason why it's at 10 health because that is the maximum health you can play Molten Giant for free.
Someone else already submitted the rogue secret, so that leaves Molten Summons, Divine Entity, and possibly Killer Instinct among what I would submit.
I personally would stick with Divine Entity. I think it's too late to make a Secret about Molten Giant, even if he did technically exist in Classic/Standard at the time. Even then, the Mage was one of those classes that could easily abuse Molten Giant because of Ice Block, and giving them potentially two more seems really strong. Presumably this Secret would have to be moved to the Hall of Fame at the same time as Molten Giant; otherwise, the problem would not have been completely removed from Standard, you know?
The fact that DH runs 29 cards from its class and then only 1 from neutral just shows how unfair and poorly designed the class was IMO. It has fewer cards in the game than any other class, meaning it should rely the most on neutral cards for power, but no, it runs almost all DH cards. It even had two rounds of nerfs that barely changed anything. Blizz fix ya class.
This guy isn't independently very good (that 4/2 stat line just isn't great), but the card he generates is plus it allows for some very nice combo potential.
I have another idea for the mage secret instead of Spell Capture. The reason why it's at 10 health because that is the maximum health you can play Molten Giant for free.
Someone else already submitted the rogue secret, so that leaves Molten Summons, Divine Entity, and possibly Killer Instinct among what I would submit.
@shaveyou
Coup de Grace seems hard to play around. I feel like that there many effects that could cause this to go off by accident. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it might not be very fun for your opponent to play against. Also, it should be "equal to its cost" instead of "equal to it's cost".
Saving Grace seems pretty cool. It's somewhere between Ice Barrier and Ice Block, but I think healing all the damage dealt on top of the damage prevention might be a little too much. Maybe set the health to 5 or 10 instead of healing?
The only deck I think I’d use this in is my Atrocity deck in which you try to buff up the attack of the Barrier Synergy or Stun synergy Ionia units and then use Atrocity to Damage the enemy nexus. In that strategy, Dragon’s rage counts as an extra, slow Atrocity. Which definitely makes it worse, but having redundancy in a combo deck is good.
I've been working on making a control paladin deck in wild. I have decent deck in theory and am working to craft the cards for it. My question is which ones should I craft first or not at all? And are there any better options.
The list of cards I'm looking to craft are:
Corsps Taker
Coghammer
Edric the Pure
Forbidden Healing
Enter the Coliseum
Thank you for any help.https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/15072-wild-grind-single-paladin
Obviously the main cause for this card is Lee Sin's L2 ability; I'm still trying to decide how I feel about it as a standalone spell. On the one hand, its a bit like a Whirling Death, Decimate, and Will of Ionia all in one. On the other: no, its not exactly: its slow speed and its 7 mana, so its going to harder to use than any of the aforementioned. I predict a few players will experiment with it and there will be some niche decks that try to exploit its effect (e.g., Teemo, Zed, ShirazaBADCARDNAME, Draven, etc), but I think at large the community is going to favor cheaper and quicker spells.
I can personally recommend Thief Rogue. Pretty much nobody runs weapon removal at the moment, only Highlander decks can potentially wiggle their way into it through Zephrys, which means you get to pound out absurd amounts of damage with Cutlass to opposing face or minions and get very good survivability out of it against aggro. You also have very powerful tempo plays against opposing tempo and aggro in the form of backstabs, vendettas, Underbelly Fences and Saps and get to disrupt opposing combo or reactive play through Loatheb and the back-breaking Zihi battlecry. Plus, you have access to tons of draw through Raiding Party and Elven Minstrel to dig your way to the weapon and card generation. Currently sitting at 64 % winrate with it. It's been performing consistently well against DH, all Mages, Warlocks and Highlander Priests. Haven't been playing it that much in the last few days but gave it a good whirl about a week ago, i.e. before most of the competition got nerfed and went 15-2 with it over the course two days. It's been performing spectacularly for me for several expansions now with little changes.
Does anybody know of a good deck to climb with in wild? I have tried Secret Mage, Odd Warrior, Cubelock, Odd Demon Hunte, even a homebrewed Spiteful Hunter but I haven't been able to get past Diamond 2. It feels like any deck I play is able to win against half of my matchups, but loses really bad to the other half. I am now at Diamond 3 with 1 star and I am afraid of falling all the way back to rank 5.
For Wild, much to my own chagrin, I did Mage with Open the Waygate. I cracked and Evocation and I just had to use it. IT's worked wonders for me in Wild... even though I feel like part of my soul has chipped off.
I refuse to do that. Doesn't help that I don't have the quest or the mana giants, though.
Odd DH was working fine but stopped working at diamond 3 too. The loss of Albatross was gross.
Elusive Balancing - Showerthought...
Here are a few ideas on how to fix elusives:
1- Make elusives cost-inefficient;
2- Elusives lose the keyword elusive after a block/attack;
3- Elusives go back to the hand after a block/attack;
4- All Elusives have 1 HP;
5- Elusives can only block other Elusives;
6- Print a new Keyword: "Ward". Ward -> The unit and adjacent units can block Elusives;
7- Print situational spells that remove the Keywords: Elusive/Fearsome/Overwhelm.
8- Print units that can steal/remove Keywords;
9- Elusives can be blocked by any unit but they don't receive combat damage from non-elusive minions.
My favorite is number 9
Which cards for a wild Control Paladin?
The Beardo variant is indeed faster, the reason I switched to the Panda variant personally after months of playing the deck was that the Beardo version folds to Skulking Geist (Jade Druid is currently T1), gets halted by Loatheb and above all, it needs to have all its numerous pieces ready in hand for Thaurissan. Very, very often, at least one of the pieces gets stuck somewhere deep in the deck and then you have to draw it, set up with Thaurissan and then execute it. In the Panda version, if all you're missing is the Garrison Commander, you can execute the combo the instant you draw it and generally, the Panda variant can just play out its combo pieces as it goes along and spends less time treading water. I've found that having to hold the pieces for the Thaurissan tick often prevented me from actually drawing through my deck due to hand size issues.
As for the quest, I'd generally advise against it. Starting hand is important and Novice Engineer goes very nicely together with Crystology. I'd go so far as to disagree that Quest Mage draws through its deck faster. Between Crystology, Novice Engineer, Acolyte, Solemn Vigil, Thalnos and Flash of Light, I've frequently outdrawn Star Aligner Druids back in the day. As in, I was nearing fatigue by turn 9.
For illustration, here are the two Paladin lists I run:
Buff Paladin
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Uther OTK Paladin
AAEBAZ8FBu0F+wzVE4quAo7TAv37AgycAp8D3AP0Bc8G9gfiEePLAoT8Atn+As+GA+yGAwA=
New Noxus Spell - Ravenous Flock
Note: A fast healing spell on the target can negate the damage.
New Ionia Card - Scales of the Dragon
0/3 slow speed is hard to get value by itself thou.
Its obviously designed to give Lee some power, but works better with heimer.
Which cards for a wild Control Paladin?
I have an Exodia list that runs Beardo, Thaurissan and 1-cost mana spells. It's faster and more reliable than the ones with pandas to bounce the cavaliers. It can win against other controlly decks and even some aggro, when you draw well (Shirvallah + Uther weapon = almost Reno). I'll post the list soon, very fun to play and cheap.
New Ionia Spell - Dragon's Rage
The only thing bad about this card is the slow speed
The Best Hearthstone Decks to Play After the Ashes of Outland Card Nerfs
Bamboozle always makes my day - unless I get Bamboozled ... ^^
Which cards for a wild Control Paladin?
I'm not a paladin player, but I think that the meta is just too fast for a normal paladin control or even combo build. Quest mage cycles through its deck faster than you and you can't time the Time Out!s consistently enough. As a Quest Priest I manage to beat that deck with taunts, but if a paladin tries to make an N'zoth deck, it will get crushed by the value of other strong control(ish) decks like Cubelock, Jade Druid.
So the current environment is not optimal for a control build like IMarcusl said. Btw that user made a really good list, I must admit. I would like to add, that the new Uther OTK decklist runs A quest, just so you get coins from the 3/2s and a better body from the explorers in comparison to the Novice Engineers.
New Ionia Champion - Lee Sin
Isn't a bit weird Lee is only ganking when he gets to 6?
...
...
...
couldn't be more accurate given what i see in my moba games :X
Which cards for a wild Control Paladin?
Thank you for your response. I have found that having consistent face works pretty well as a late game plan but I don't have that much experience with a lot of the cards before ungoro. I've played with kangors and making mummy but they really die early and are not consistent late.
You are probably right about the midgame cards. I figured they'd be helpful in getting to the necessary removals around 6 or 7.
Thanks again for the opinion and I'll let you know if I can get the deck to work.
New Lackey Zoo [4/20 Nerfs]
Thanks for the reply. That's fair enough..
I hate being that guy, asking replacement for a key card lol. Good to know you think it's not playable without him. Cheers
Which cards for a wild Control Paladin?
Personally, I don't think Paladin has the tools for a viable control variant, and that's coming from someone who tends to make a control/value everything. In face of Bloodreaver Guldans, N'Zoths, Shadowreaper Anduins, Resurrect Priests, Shudderwock Shamans...Paladin really does not have much to offer. There are essentially four routes I think might be worth considering, but none of these will play out as your classic control/value deck.
1) Mech Paladin with Kangor's Endless Army. This is about as close to a good N'Zoth effect as Paladin can get. Alternatively, the deck can go the route of the Making Mummies quest to keep duplicating Mechano Eggs or Mechanical Whelps, but that goes somewhat against the Endless Army gameplan.
2) Buff Paladin. This is more of a midrange option that lays down early, hard-to-remove minions like Righteous Protector or Argent Squire and then turns them into monsters through Librams, Hand of A'dal, Blessing of Kings, Spikeridge Steed etc. Most of the time the deck will try to end the game early by quickly pushing damage, but if that does not pan out, it can switch to a slower value plan with Lady Liadrin giving you another go on all your powerful buffs such as Libram of Hope, and Lynessa Sunsorrow becoming a huge monster with several Steed deathrattles and Libram of Hope summons generating a sturdy board. Can also be played as Pure Paladin.
3) Murloc OTK Paladin. Generally plays a control gameplan and tries to only land several key murlocs: Ol' Murkeye, Bluegill Warrior and Murloc Warleader, then revives them all, twice, with Anyfin Can Happen for an instant kill.
4) Uther OTK Paladin. Plays a control, draw and survival gameplan similar to the Murloc OTK, but instead OTKs with Uther of the Ebon Blade using Youthful Brewmasters to bounce 2 different Knights from the hero power, then finishes off with Garrison Commander for the remaining two.
Personally only have experience with the Buff Paladin and Uther OTK variants and neither of these play the control/value plan. The only card any of these use from what you listed is Forbidden Healing in the Uther OTK. Coghammer is much better for aggressive/tempo decks, Corpsetaker swings more towards the midrange. Eadric the Pure is more like Eadric the Poor and Enter the Coliseum is generally not used due to Equality, Shrink Ray and now Libram of Justice offering a more reliable board clear.
Top Secret - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
I personally would stick with Divine Entity. I think it's too late to make a Secret about Molten Giant, even if he did technically exist in Classic/Standard at the time. Even then, the Mage was one of those classes that could easily abuse Molten Giant because of Ice Block, and giving them potentially two more seems really strong. Presumably this Secret would have to be moved to the Hall of Fame at the same time as Molten Giant; otherwise, the problem would not have been completely removed from Standard, you know?
The Best Hearthstone Decks to Play After the Ashes of Outland Card Nerfs
The fact that DH runs 29 cards from its class and then only 1 from neutral just shows how unfair and poorly designed the class was IMO. It has fewer cards in the game than any other class, meaning it should rely the most on neutral cards for power, but no, it runs almost all DH cards. It even had two rounds of nerfs that barely changed anything. Blizz fix ya class.
New Ionia Card - Scales of the Dragon
This guy isn't independently very good (that 4/2 stat line just isn't great), but the card he generates is plus it allows for some very nice combo potential.
Top Secret - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Thanks for the feedback :)
I have another idea for the mage secret instead of Spell Capture. The reason why it's at 10 health because that is the maximum health you can play Molten Giant for free.
Someone else already submitted the rogue secret, so that leaves Molten Summons, Divine Entity, and possibly Killer Instinct among what I would submit.
@shaveyou
Coup de Grace seems hard to play around. I feel like that there many effects that could cause this to go off by accident. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it might not be very fun for your opponent to play against. Also, it should be "equal to its cost" instead of "equal to it's cost".
Saving Grace seems pretty cool. It's somewhere between Ice Barrier and Ice Block, but I think healing all the damage dealt on top of the damage prevention might be a little too much. Maybe set the health to 5 or 10 instead of healing?
The Best Hearthstone Decks to Play After the Ashes of Outland Card Nerfs
Pretty sure the best dhunter list is the one with 2x Warglaives of Azzinoth, which will pretty much wreak all the other lists available here.
New Ionia Spell - Dragon's Rage
The only deck I think I’d use this in is my Atrocity deck in which you try to buff up the attack of the Barrier Synergy or Stun synergy Ionia units and then use Atrocity to Damage the enemy nexus. In that strategy, Dragon’s rage counts as an extra, slow Atrocity. Which definitely makes it worse, but having redundancy in a combo deck is good.
Which cards for a wild Control Paladin?
I've been working on making a control paladin deck in wild. I have decent deck in theory and am working to craft the cards for it. My question is which ones should I craft first or not at all? And are there any better options.
The list of cards I'm looking to craft are:
Thank you for any help.https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/15072-wild-grind-single-paladin
New Ionia Spell - Dragon's Rage
Obviously the main cause for this card is Lee Sin's L2 ability; I'm still trying to decide how I feel about it as a standalone spell. On the one hand, its a bit like a Whirling Death, Decimate, and Will of Ionia all in one. On the other: no, its not exactly: its slow speed and its 7 mana, so its going to harder to use than any of the aforementioned. I predict a few players will experiment with it and there will be some niche decks that try to exploit its effect (e.g., Teemo, Zed, ShirazaBADCARDNAME, Draven, etc), but I think at large the community is going to favor cheaper and quicker spells.
The Best Hearthstone Decks to Play After the Ashes of Outland Card Nerfs
I can personally recommend Thief Rogue. Pretty much nobody runs weapon removal at the moment, only Highlander decks can potentially wiggle their way into it through Zephrys, which means you get to pound out absurd amounts of damage with Cutlass to opposing face or minions and get very good survivability out of it against aggro. You also have very powerful tempo plays against opposing tempo and aggro in the form of backstabs, vendettas, Underbelly Fences and Saps and get to disrupt opposing combo or reactive play through Loatheb and the back-breaking Zihi battlecry. Plus, you have access to tons of draw through Raiding Party and Elven Minstrel to dig your way to the weapon and card generation. Currently sitting at 64 % winrate with it. It's been performing consistently well against DH, all Mages, Warlocks and Highlander Priests. Haven't been playing it that much in the last few days but gave it a good whirl about a week ago, i.e. before most of the competition got nerfed and went 15-2 with it over the course two days. It's been performing spectacularly for me for several expansions now with little changes.
AAEBAaIHBMgD+g7r8ALAjwMNtAHLA80DrxCStgKbyALb4wLq8wLVjAOQlwP7mgP+mgOtqAMA
The Best Hearthstone Decks to Play After the Ashes of Outland Card Nerfs
Yeah. I feel betrayed on a deep, personal level. How could they?
New Ionia Spell - Retreat
1 mana Sump Dredger with no discard O>O
The Best Hearthstone Decks to Play After the Ashes of Outland Card Nerfs
There is also Highlander Pries
The Best Hearthstone Decks to Play After the Ashes of Outland Card Nerfs
I felt the burn from that to