If they wanted classes to have more access to card draw then why have they Hall of Famed the Neutral cards they have?.. So they can just print newer ones that rotate which brings them back to having to create more all over again?
maybe... not sure what is more consistent, but that is an idea... Problem with Drakkari Enchanter is that you would have to play her on same turn as Emperor Thaurissan for 9 mana, which is a problem against some decs. While Galvanizer you can just drop after you have drawn Mecha'thun
Re res priest: there are the spiritual successors to Weasel Tunneler res decks that aim to res the Albatross as many times as possible, so even res priest considers the card.
I'm sorry but if you're referring to Tempo storm as your go-to meta indicator your credibility can be thrown out the window immediately.
Perhaps my comparison with giants warlock wasn't the best but secret mage has been a consistent top tier performer for a long time. Continuously flying under the nerf radar because of more pressing matters (i.e. sn1p-sn4p) yet ever present on ladder. Leading to an extremely stale ladder experience. Even more so now that multiple decks are getting nerfed and even more people will probably flock to it.
Anecdotal evidence of you versus secret mage aside, the deck has no real weakness anymore ever since the latest additions and is EXTREMELY consistent, even when it's getting countered with secret hate.
So then show me please your data, which prove that quote "Secret mage has been the best deck for a long time now".
I really like the idea, very flavourful and I don't think the effects are that OP. I'd tweak the stats so that it has lower attack, but I don't think it has to be 8/4/8, look at Psych-o-Tron.
Secret Mage is counterable by a variety of decks, proper counterplays, and even tech cards.
No such thing is true for DHlock and QMage, which is why they were targeted for nerfs.
The nerfed decks are Combo decks, direct counters to Control Reno deck. With less Combo in the meta, Control will rise a little bit, enough to reduce the presence of Secret Mage.
I'm sorry but if you're referring to Tempo storm as your go-to meta indicator your credibility can be thrown out the window immediately.
Perhaps my comparison with giants warlock wasn't the best but secret mage has been a consistent top tier performer for a long time. Continuously flying under the nerf radar because of more pressing matters (i.e. sn1p-sn4p) yet ever present on ladder. Leading to an extremely stale ladder experience. Even more so now that multiple decks are getting nerfed and even more people will probably flock to it.
Anecdotal evidence of you versus secret mage aside, the deck has no real weakness anymore ever since the latest additions and is EXTREMELY consistent, even when it's getting countered with secret hate.
If the other thing is useful, as in the case of Diving Gryphon, or cheap like the pre-nerf Power Word: Shield, replacement-only is fine. But for example a Novice Engineer effectively lets you use the Paladin hero power once, which isn't terribly exciting. Few decks currently use the card, unless they're a combo deck (OTK Demon Hunter) or can get additional value from battlecries (Quest Shaman).
As much as I hate Secret Mage, these nerfs will help Renodecks coming back in meta, and that in turn will keep Secret Mages in check.
How so? The best performing mage deck I played was quest renolock, which already was a reno deck, only now it will become weaker with no alternate win condition other than control. Of course secret mage is not unbeatable, but blizzard is saying what is fun to play against and secret mage is one of the least fun decks to play against, at least for me.
There are enough ways to handle Secret Mage and a lot of tech cards against secrets.
Of course Secret Mage can be anoying - but it far from "unstoppable" like for example Darkest Hour Warlock which got its combo on turn 5.
There is nothing wrong about having really strong decks in Wild - the problem are the decks, which feel "unstoppable".
Okay, I fully agree with both nerfs and Darkest hour warlock is a problem that should have been addressed long ago.
Quest mage is far from unstoppable though. It loses consistently to aggro decks (which is like half of the wild meta) and the slower Reno quest countetpart has the same weakness most combo decks have.
Secret mage, on the other hand, has been the best deck for a long time now. Even with all the secret hate the deck still performs at a top tier level.
Indeed, there is nothing wrong with having really strong decks. But there is something wrong with having a single really, really strong deck. (Does aga giant warlock come to mind?)
Do you really compare Secret Mage with Nagalock? o.O
Nagalock was one of this "unstoppable" decks. Secret Mage is no where near the brokeness of the old Naga Giants combo.
And based on what do you call Secdret mage "the best deck for a long time"? It is even debatable if Secret Mage was T1 in the last months (Tempo Storm for example only listed it as T2).
Secret Mage is only "op" as long as the opponent is too bad to play effectively around the secrets. Even without a special anti secret tech, I had over 50% winrate for sure against Secret Mage with for example Reno-Quest-Mage, which I reached Legend two months in a row.
Yeah i like playing other classes too but the problem for me is i that im i type of player that once i picked a hero or champion i stick with it. Lol. I do agree with DH as the best bet for ranking up. Just playing zoo warlock right now is kinda hard. But the galackrond zoo control i think has the potential. It only lacks consistency. I am working on a zoo control deck warlock. Let me know what you think of this.
Beaming Sidekick 2x
Blazing Battlemage 2x
Void Walker 2x
Sinister Deal 2x
Evil Genius 2x
Nether breath 2x
Imprissoned scrapped imp 2x
Dragonblight cultist 2x
Ironbreak owl/ badluck albatross 2x
Devoted Maniac 2x
Vieled Worshiper 2x
Shield of Galackron 2x
Crazed nether wing 2x
Galackrond the wretched
Kronx dragonhoof
Alextrasza
Queen Alextrasza
Or switch one veiled worshiper for zephyr the great. Hope i got that right.
I wasn't talking about delaying, but rather cancelling Mecha'thun's deathrattle entirely. A few days ago I played against this archtype. What I did was, that I waited on my opponent to draw their deck before I played the albatross. Since I was playing a control N'zoth priest, I had some seances in my hand to make extra copies of the bird. But those weren't even necessary - as soon as my opponent reached the bottom 4 cards of their deck and used the soularium prematurely (imho that was a misplay), I just played the albatross behind a taunt and denied Mecha'thun's deathrattle. The opponent didn't have ways to clear it, so they went for the Mecha'thun failed combo & concede play - the albatross's deathrattle triggered first, which denied the 10/10's deathrattle. That's what I meant.
I was surprised, that that deck didn't run Gul'dan. If they had included it, the opponent would have been able to clear my albatrosses, to stall the game, to draw the remaining cards of their deck and quite possibly to win. I don't know if the current Mecha'thun lock runs the dk or my opponent had a different build, but the albatrosses can really screw up our opponents if we time them correctly.
If you're interested in simply delaying Mechathun, then you're better off with Mojomaster Zihi than Albatross. Albatross delays them two turns at best, probably less if they have access to card draw. There's no way for them to manoeuvre around the fact they just got dropped to 6 mana and need to live for 4 more turns, there's a 5/5 on the board and their Bloodreaver or Twisting Nether is now unplayable.
I feel like everyone is hating on Imprisoned Antoen or Priestess of Fury because they are powerhouse cards, but honestly not many decks run them naturally right now. And as someone who likes the DH class it's gotten neutered to the point of almost obsolescence. The only deck viable in high ranks it seems is tempo (aka aggro) and maybe the OTK variant with Kael.
Nice fix would be made both DH cards to deal same amount of damage but to one target only, so no 6x1 damage but 1x6 damage and not 10x1 damage but 1x10 damage.
Ya know. I recently spent some time on "the other site" because of isolation boredom, and posts like this can get such crazy toxic hate. forgot how bad it can be over there. Out of cards seems like such a nicer community.
Hearthstone Class Identity is Constantly Evolving - Card Draw to Be More Universal
If they wanted classes to have more access to card draw then why have they Hall of Famed the Neutral cards they have?.. So they can just print newer ones that rotate which brings them back to having to create more all over again?
Quest Mage and Darkest Hour Warlock Changes Coming! Expect Changes to Open the Waygate and Bloodbloom
maybe... not sure what is more consistent, but that is an idea... Problem with Drakkari Enchanter is that you would have to play her on same turn as Emperor Thaurissan for 9 mana, which is a problem against some decs. While Galvanizer you can just drop after you have drawn Mecha'thun
7 Mana Mecha'thun
3 mana Cataclysm
Might just be easier to weave in into turns, not to mention that Galvanizers will help with Plague of Flames turns
Need help!
I don't understand why you'd want to create a Zoo-Control Hybrid when you can just use the regular Control Galakrond deck that HsReplay features?
Deck ID Not Found
Why the Hearthstone Animations Have Stepped Up a Notch Recently
Hadidjah is hilarious, and I love how raw and straightforward she is with her answers. Great stuff!
EDIT: Oh shit, sorry! Corrected.
Quest Mage and Darkest Hour Warlock Changes Coming! Expect Changes to Open the Waygate and Bloodbloom
Btw, if they nerf those decks too much, we may actually be going towards a Raza Priest meta.
Raza Priest is a solid mixture of Control and Combo, it might fulfill the niche left by the nerfs.
What do you think?
Hearthstone Class Identity is Constantly Evolving - Card Draw to Be More Universal
Warrior still has some tricks up its sleeve. You can do a lot with a well timed Risky Skipper and Battle Rage.
Need help!
Bump
Blizzard Believes Sacrificial Pact is Not Fun - Looking at Potential Changes to It and More Cards in Hearthstone's Standard Format
Re res priest: there are the spiritual successors to Weasel Tunneler res decks that aim to res the Albatross as many times as possible, so even res priest considers the card.
Quest Mage and Darkest Hour Warlock Changes Coming! Expect Changes to Open the Waygate and Bloodbloom
So then show me please your data, which prove that quote "Secret mage has been the best deck for a long time now".
Blizzard Believes Sacrificial Pact is Not Fun - Looking at Potential Changes to It and More Cards in Hearthstone's Standard Format
They could change Keal so that the third spell just does like double the effect or something to keep the combos but make some harder to achieve.
TAUNT, INSECT! - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
I really like the idea, very flavourful and I don't think the effects are that OP. I'd tweak the stats so that it has lower attack, but I don't think it has to be 8/4/8, look at Psych-o-Tron.
Quest Mage and Darkest Hour Warlock Changes Coming! Expect Changes to Open the Waygate and Bloodbloom
Secret Mage is counterable by a variety of decks, proper counterplays, and even tech cards.
No such thing is true for DHlock and QMage, which is why they were targeted for nerfs.
The nerfed decks are Combo decks, direct counters to Control Reno deck. With less Combo in the meta, Control will rise a little bit, enough to reduce the presence of Secret Mage.
Quest Mage and Darkest Hour Warlock Changes Coming! Expect Changes to Open the Waygate and Bloodbloom
I'm sorry but if you're referring to Tempo storm as your go-to meta indicator your credibility can be thrown out the window immediately.
Perhaps my comparison with giants warlock wasn't the best but secret mage has been a consistent top tier performer for a long time. Continuously flying under the nerf radar because of more pressing matters (i.e. sn1p-sn4p) yet ever present on ladder. Leading to an extremely stale ladder experience. Even more so now that multiple decks are getting nerfed and even more people will probably flock to it.
Anecdotal evidence of you versus secret mage aside, the deck has no real weakness anymore ever since the latest additions and is EXTREMELY consistent, even when it's getting countered with secret hate.
Hearthstone Class Identity is Constantly Evolving - Card Draw to Be More Universal
If the other thing is useful, as in the case of Diving Gryphon, or cheap like the pre-nerf Power Word: Shield, replacement-only is fine. But for example a Novice Engineer effectively lets you use the Paladin hero power once, which isn't terribly exciting. Few decks currently use the card, unless they're a combo deck (OTK Demon Hunter) or can get additional value from battlecries (Quest Shaman).
Hearthstone Class Identity is Constantly Evolving - Card Draw to Be More Universal
Looking forward to draw in hunter.
Quest Mage and Darkest Hour Warlock Changes Coming! Expect Changes to Open the Waygate and Bloodbloom
How so? The best performing mage deck I played was quest renolock, which already was a reno deck, only now it will become weaker with no alternate win condition other than control. Of course secret mage is not unbeatable, but blizzard is saying what is fun to play against and secret mage is one of the least fun decks to play against, at least for me.
Quest Mage and Darkest Hour Warlock Changes Coming! Expect Changes to Open the Waygate and Bloodbloom
Do you really compare Secret Mage with Nagalock? o.O
Nagalock was one of this "unstoppable" decks. Secret Mage is no where near the brokeness of the old Naga Giants combo.
And based on what do you call Secdret mage "the best deck for a long time"? It is even debatable if Secret Mage was T1 in the last months (Tempo Storm for example only listed it as T2).
Secret Mage is only "op" as long as the opponent is too bad to play effectively around the secrets. Even without a special anti secret tech, I had over 50% winrate for sure against Secret Mage with for example Reno-Quest-Mage, which I reached Legend two months in a row.
Need help!
Yeah i like playing other classes too but the problem for me is i that im i type of player that once i picked a hero or champion i stick with it. Lol. I do agree with DH as the best bet for ranking up. Just playing zoo warlock right now is kinda hard. But the galackrond zoo control i think has the potential. It only lacks consistency. I am working on a zoo control deck warlock. Let me know what you think of this.
Beaming Sidekick 2x
Blazing Battlemage 2x
Void Walker 2x
Sinister Deal 2x
Evil Genius 2x
Nether breath 2x
Imprissoned scrapped imp 2x
Dragonblight cultist 2x
Ironbreak owl/ badluck albatross 2x
Devoted Maniac 2x
Vieled Worshiper 2x
Shield of Galackron 2x
Crazed nether wing 2x
Galackrond the wretched
Kronx dragonhoof
Alextrasza
Queen Alextrasza
Or switch one veiled worshiper for zephyr the great. Hope i got that right.
Hearthstone Class Identity is Constantly Evolving - Card Draw to Be More Universal
FWIW - the internet won't break if you stop pretending to be upset every time you use it . .
Quest Mage and Darkest Hour Warlock Changes Coming! Expect Changes to Open the Waygate and Bloodbloom
I wasn't talking about delaying, but rather cancelling Mecha'thun's deathrattle entirely. A few days ago I played against this archtype. What I did was, that I waited on my opponent to draw their deck before I played the albatross. Since I was playing a control N'zoth priest, I had some seances in my hand to make extra copies of the bird. But those weren't even necessary - as soon as my opponent reached the bottom 4 cards of their deck and used the soularium prematurely (imho that was a misplay), I just played the albatross behind a taunt and denied Mecha'thun's deathrattle. The opponent didn't have ways to clear it, so they went for the Mecha'thun failed combo & concede play - the albatross's deathrattle triggered first, which denied the 10/10's deathrattle. That's what I meant.
I was surprised, that that deck didn't run Gul'dan. If they had included it, the opponent would have been able to clear my albatrosses, to stall the game, to draw the remaining cards of their deck and quite possibly to win. I don't know if the current Mecha'thun lock runs the dk or my opponent had a different build, but the albatrosses can really screw up our opponents if we time them correctly.
Top Hearthstone Decks for Each Class in the Early Ashes Of Outland Meta
That “top” Demon Hunter deck seems like a troll for unwary netdeckers. That thing looks useless.
Quest Mage and Darkest Hour Warlock Changes Coming! Expect Changes to Open the Waygate and Bloodbloom
If you're interested in simply delaying Mechathun, then you're better off with Mojomaster Zihi than Albatross. Albatross delays them two turns at best, probably less if they have access to card draw. There's no way for them to manoeuvre around the fact they just got dropped to 6 mana and need to live for 4 more turns, there's a 5/5 on the board and their Bloodreaver or Twisting Nether is now unplayable.
Hearthstone Class Identity is Constantly Evolving - Card Draw to Be More Universal
Was used in mage a lot as well cause mage could ping it.
it's weird they didn't give warrior a draw engine/card to compensate about acolyte..
Blizzard Believes Sacrificial Pact is Not Fun - Looking at Potential Changes to It and More Cards in Hearthstone's Standard Format
Nice fix would be made both DH cards to deal same amount of damage but to one target only, so no 6x1 damage but 1x6 damage and not 10x1 damage but 1x10 damage.
Forgive me brothers...
Indeed. OOC have way better content as well