All Comments

Like you and several others have said, just make a constructed mode that mirrors the arena rotation.  This is the simplest solution and it will allow for other strategies outside of the normal meta decks.

In synthesis, my point is about lack of goodwill on their side.

I don't believe they are unable to, they just don't want to, and/or think it is more profitable to them to stick with extreme designs (because they think people enjoy power peaks, in Standard too).

I have a theory that someone at team 5 is actually a murloc. It's the only explanation as to why such meme creatures can be so unbearably op in both normal and battlegrounds modes. It's actually a fucking joke now. Just make the fish people go the fuck away

I dont want to drag this any further, but your statement that the same results can be achieved with similar, but non flawed cards is bold, very much indeed .

Your argument rests on someone being able to introduce better card design that achieves the same goals as team5 has set, but without the flaws. I look forward to seeing some examples of this myself.

I’ve been saying for a while now, the best option to try and balance Wild is to add a third play mode that is either 1) Wild but with bans on certain cards, or 2) a format with rotating cards sets that include a mix of Wild and Standard sets.  Could rotate monthly even, or to make it easier, it could just match the set rotation in Arena.  I’d actually be fine with either one.

I’ve actually been playing a lot more Wild lately.  My favorite deck in the format currently is titled “Galak Gun Priest” in my decks.  It’s an old fashioned Mind Blast combo priest, includes Galakrond and Awken the Makers.  It’s at 17-14 playing lower ranks, currently rank 9 or 8.

Personally, I feel like if you are just playing for fun in Wild there are a lot of fun decks to play, and to play against.  And when your fun deck occasionally crush people playing meta decks that don’t know what they are doing, it feels REALLY good!

About the mobile bug i have read on forums that you can uninstall the Hearthstone launcher and install it from the Amazon App Store. I tryed it and it works fine, so there you have if u need to play before the patch is comming out!

You would think that!

I'm currently in a ticket tennis match with their customer service. I paid through Amazon coins so they cannot refund via mobile payments apparently.

They are offering the remove the cards and dust (I d/e any of the duplicates before I realised) AND remove 500g for the privilege... (yes remove not refund me 500g), so essentially I would have paid £8.99 to lose 500g. You couldn't even make it up...

I'll post the conversation if I don't get anywhere with them, it's not a lot of money but it's the principle now.

It's worthwhile recognising that the majority of complaints regarding balance in Wild (and Standard, for that matter) are simply folks expressing their distaste for a particular deck, rather than honest criticisms of the state-of-the-game. Three sites currently track the older format (maybe others I'm not aware of), and the three sites all rank the Wild meta-game differently, which is frankly more suggestive than the complaints which accumulate on casual gaming fan-sites like this, or the subreddit.

Folks complaining about OP decks in Wild are better off simply avoiding the format - to no one's surprise, the meta-game in eternal format CCGs is always far more degenerate than in limited formats. That's their allure. Bitching about it makes about as much sense as bitching about the lazy devs in MtG, who have never gotten around to nerfing Black Lotus and the Moxen, or Force of Will and Dual Lands. Folks that enjoy playing eternal formats enjoy playing degenerate shit. Many of the complaints that have dogged the format since it debuted honestly seem to amount to nothing other than players discovering that they don't enjoy playing degenerate shit - or, more likely, that they actually enjoy playing degenerate shit, but get upset when degenerate shit is played against them . . .

Happens to me, too. I have a mono-Freljord Frostbite deck. One day, I can go on a tear with it (unranked), and the next, I'll struggle for the better part of an hour to even score my 400-XP bonus for the day.

Nope, your argument doesn't stick, because the same results in Standard could be achieved with similar, but non-flawed cards, if they really wanted to buff those archetypes.

Possibly with two consistent cards instead of a broken one and a pack filler.

I'm really loving the new Herald of Flame card, especially when you get it golden early. The overkill effect can trigger itself, leading to a huge chain of dead minions. Sucks against divine shield tho.

I hope that it will not be the usual BS...new cards and same old tricks...we'll see.. not excited at all for the time being

Quote From Meteorite12

Part of it I’d imagine is because the first set of the year is their chance to try to make a new archetype that can be expanded on later (since it’ll have the most time in standard, and they don’t print that many synergy cards for decks that have rotated out).

The other part I think is that Wild’s probably gonna get some new people in it with the rotation, a bunch of people that want to play decks that have rotated out and all, so the meta might shift because of that

Good points

Now the idea has been put in my head, I think a new rotating format has to be the pragmatic solution to the wild 'problem'. Without it or something similar we're left with a fundamental question on what Wild should be, akin to the age old question of what Casual should be, which has no answer that everyone agrees on and is therefore certain to disappoint people no matter how they treat Wild.

Add in a new sub-Wild format and you get to say: Wild is ALL cards and the most extreme power levels, and the new format is a rotating sub-set of Wild cards that lets old cards and decks have a time to shine. I essence it is like Standard, but with sets chosen more like Arena: i.e. more frequent changes and a huge number of different set permutations. As always certain decks will rise to the top of the meta, but make it change often enough (e.g. every 2 months as is done in the Arena,) and no deck reigns for too long and cards don't have to wait too long to enter the cycle.

Ideally you would allow people to choose which sets to restrict from, but the player base isn't infinitely large to that's not practical.

You can easily counter it, just rat or something like that, but you can t counter quest mage or odd pala or mech pala. Even secret mage has very few counters, yes, we have anti secret cards, but you can t play them coz of you counter only 1 deck (ok, 2, quest mage too) and it s not 100% counter coz you need hard mulligan it coz later it's just useless.

I would first remove overwhelm because it doesn't even suit him that well thematically and removing it won't hit him too hard. If that's not enough (which it probably isn't) I would say either a small stat nerf (-1 attack or -1 health) or reducing the stats of the spectral riders to 2/2 (although this does remove the consistency between Hecarim's riders and the riders summoned by Onslaught of Shadows.

And I agree that The Rekindler can be pretty dumb as well. I think a 1 mana increase would be a step in the right direction.

Lol Mechathun Warlock squeezing past the decks they are looking at like Cersei walking by the Clegane Bowl

only when Patches was nerfed i heard a lot of rogue and wars players were mad, coz of it s my only deck, etc

Oh, also, when they nerfed leeching poison but not dagger, it was rude, coz of just 50 dust and whole decks were ruined.

Old song once again, we must cry years for balance and only after this, they will change only 1-2 cards for wild, it's really stupid.

Secret mage is a cancer, baku pal is a cancer, mech pala is a cancer (less for me, coz has some counters), quest mage is a cancer and has zero counters except super aggro. And you must wait years, not just months before Blizz will do something. Ofc, they can add some cards for BG, but patch for real game where people buying cards and gives you money, no, we must wait...

Quote From RavenSunHS

Quote From dapperdog

Those cards you cited are very situational, and while they do produce an amazing effect, it cannot be jammed into just about any deck.

Its not just nerfing strong cards, its about making sure that the balance of the classes are within acceptable ranges. Its a hard task, admitably, hence why the results of nerfs aren't always what it should be.

Nerfing those cards as you cited, will pull down an already down class in standard.

Situational? Those cards situational? Have you ever played Wild?

Also, your final argument: if a class is weak in Standard, then it's a good idea to print broken cards for it, as long as said class stays weak in Standard: congratulations! You haven't improved the Standard class by an inch, while making it a meta tyrant in Wild! 

Don't you see this is EXACTLY the devilish policy i am denouncing?

The devs already said, for ill or good, that they have no intention of balancing wild. If we take that at face value then cards are created and designed for standard and not with strong consideration of wild decks.

My argument for standard sticks. If you nerf those cards then the class or archetype will sink even lower into the mud than it is now. I can't imagine playing Galakrond warlock without Plague of Flames, and Crystology is probably the most important card in all archetypes of paladin in standard, good or bad. And whenever I play quest secret mage (yes its not very good), Ancient Mysteries would be my first pick.

I'd advocate a stat nerf to 3/5 and/or weakening the summoning aspect: Either reduce the Riders to 2/1 or, as I'd prefer, let him summon only 1 instead of 2. I could see Overwhelm being removed or limited to his level-2 variant, too.

Quote From dapperdog

Those cards you cited are very situational, and while they do produce an amazing effect, it cannot be jammed into just about any deck.

Its not just nerfing strong cards, its about making sure that the balance of the classes are within acceptable ranges. Its a hard task, admitably, hence why the results of nerfs aren't always what it should be.

Nerfing those cards as you cited, will pull down an already down class in standard.

Situational? Those cards situational? Have you ever played Wild?

Also, your final argument: if a class is weak in Standard, then it's a good idea to print broken cards for it, as long as said class stays weak in Standard: congratulations! You haven't improved the Standard class by an inch, while making it a meta tyrant in Wild! 

Don't you see this is EXACTLY the devilish policy i am denouncing?

Shouldn't nerf the Shadow Riders. In fact, they should be the main focus of Hecarim, so his base stats should be reduced...or just his mana cost increased.

I think that the 6-mana slot is way too efficient. He should be at 7 or 8-mana. In return they could reduce his upgrade requirement to make pure Ephemeral decks more appealing.

Also yes, Rekindler is absolutely <snip> and needs to either be at least 2-mana higher or have garbage stats

//sinti: removed profanity

Kind of a let down tbh. They did show that they wanna give Wild a bit more Attention (returning Packs, Nerfs to Echo). And now they're saying they don't have any Changes to it in Mind? Really? I mean, you could just look at Forum Threads and clearly see that People have an Issue with Decks like Quest-Mage. Yeah, there are a lot of Players that are just salty and wanna vent, but you can't deny that it often feels like you can't do anything when you're facing these Decks. I seriously hope the Devs change their Minds on this Topic when the next Xpac is released.

Regarding new Format: Rotating Sets sounds interesting. But you really need to be careful with which Sets you'll combine. A lot of Cards are harmless, untill you put them in the right Enviroment.

cough *Terror in the Tombs* cough