I don't think it's something they should ever push with powerful cards but keeping it at memey/tier 4 level with the occasional card that can be used for it directly or indirectly is fine. Unique archetypes are one of the things that make card games fun, even though i've never played mill myself I appreciate that some people like it.
I've been playing a TON of magic:arena for like four months now and i've honestly never lost a single game to a mill deck. Even when i'm playing generally slow decks they still get beat down, i even beat one with one of the basic decks you start with which are terrible. I don't understand how it actually wins any games in standard. Closest i've been is like 6 cards left in deck lol.
You mean like the two months of Evolve-stone leading up to the launch of DoD?
Or the nearly three months we spent with cheaper Lyra's Pocket Galaxy and Extra Arms?
What a joke.
Try this: Mark a 2019 calendar in two colors, red for a meta containing cards that need to be nerfed and eventually get nerfed, and green for a meta containing no cards that need to be nerfed (indicating a balanced meta). Guess which color you'll see a lot more of.
Also if you are using a deck that is weak to 1 specific match-up, it's often not worth it to make changes to the deck. You might make this single one better, but it will probably come at the cost from other match-ups. Just take the loss and win the next two games ;)
Plot twist warlock with Dollmaster Dorian has been pushed hard this year, only getting no love from DoD. Its just not that popular or too inconsistent. I think there's plenty of potential here, but since the dollmaster himself will be leaving standard this April, it needs alot of support to get anywhere in the next expansion. That aside, having played both this and questlock, I can say with confidence both are good enough for standard, that 7 mana dollmaster tempo swing is particularly good, but it really suffers hard from warlock's lack of healing.
Its not like team5 doesnt have a vision for warlock, it just havent work out to be anything more than a meme deck.
I dunno man. Valdris HandLock feels pretty damn Good for me. Holding 12 cards and dropping a 2/2 and an 11/11 Taunt is pretty sick. I have a soft spot for Warlock and really like the fact that every expansion so far has featured a Zoo Type Deck.
It is interesting to see Hunter so popular for so long, yet they were never really "overpowered". Cheap decks that work well are the foundation of the class, making it very accessible.
It's been years since my old pal Dirty Rat was in standard...
This is - by itself - an excellent point/question. So obviously for the first time in HS history Blizz did buffs a while back, and they've clearly been HoFing basic/classic cards without much pause. Why don't they "buff" some good Wild counters by making them Classic and bringing them back into Standard permanently? It would give them more room to print "weird" cards/cards for strategies like Mill since the counter would already be there.
And to be crystal clear since I HATED that Halloween nonsense of bringing back all those OP cards and ruining the meta for a month: I mean very specifically cards like Dirty Rat, maybe Loatheb, etc. that are just good, all-purpose tech cards that have never really been adequately (and I use that word since I know there obviously have been some stabs at Dirty Rat 2: Dirtiest Boogaloo like Demonic Project & Hecklebot) reprinted.
I realized something lately.. you know it doesn't matter which style of deck you play.. you play to win.. if a mechanic is "unfair" your deck should be as much unfair as theirs you are doing other kind of unfair things.. let's take freeze mage vs aggro for example..
freeze mage constantly freezes the board and have a burst OTK but aggro is also unfair cause they spam mana efficient minions which give you tonnes of tempo, which is also unfair.. when you play a specific playstyle you feel like some other playstyles are wrong.. and it's just not the right way to think about it..
The question is how polarized are the matchups that's really the annoying part.. and how hopeless it feels sometimes but in general being able to actually play a game which also feels when you play a tier 3 deck vs the meta decks.. but well that's how card game work.. if your deck doesn't do something unfair what are you even doing.
@aliradicali you mean [Hearthstone Card (coldlinght oracle) Not Found] not seer.
You do NOT attack them, they got 2 karthut defenders, a zilliax, 2 water bearers, and hero power they heal face really quickly and even from low hp they suddenly burst heal..
so you should build a board and fight for it, don't overextend save value as much as possible they will eventually start playing stuff kill everything you see with the minions on board.
control normally wins against quest priest since it got limited value as long as you don't hit them in the face.
I always lost when I hit them in the face for low amounts of damage, you only hit them when they already completed the quest, or when you have 2 turn or same turn lethal.
it's a slow game vs any deck.
oh and if you are face hunter.. well good luck 20% chance to win.. play normally and hope they don't draw their healing cards.
I've always thought they should add a "Time Travel" mode.
A new form of standard where you actually have a chance to play decks of the past in the meta they were originally played in.
Each month the mode will rotate to a new "meta"
Ex:
January - Knights of the Frozen Throne - Only sets that were available in Standard during KoFT can be used
February - The Boomsday Project - Only sets that were available in Standard during BP can be used
etc etc
Maybe have special rewards for the mode that give out packs from that meta to help newer players develop their wild sets, which could help improve the health of wild if more people have a larger collection to work with.
It does not matter how much patience or skill is required to play a mill deck. Patience and skill are not the criteria for whether something should be allowed in the game. The fact that it exists in other games is also not a criterion.
Decks with milling as a win condition should be actively discouraged in Standard because Hearthstone lacks the mechanical infrastructure to allow a player to tech against it. Saying you should "learn to play around it" is a ridiculous oversimplification. For some archetypes, that is literally impossible.
If they print an evergreen neutral card that lets me move my "graveyard" into my deck, I might reconsider my position.
Loads of decks can't beat OTK combos except by going face. Cards in hand are almost entirely untouchable in standard HS at the moment.
Why the hell should combo and control players feel safe in the know that THEIR win condition can't be disrupted by other players when every other wincon can be? I'm not averse to the idea of more interaction, but dear god let's not pretend that all the strategies already in the game have adequate tech counters. It's been years since my old pal Dirty Rat was in standard...
First, they should spend more time worrying about balance before adding anything new.
In that vein, however, some sweeping changes in the name of balance would be most welcome and would seem like new additions.
They should completely overhaul some of the classes (including evergreen cards, class-identity keywords, and hero powers) so that they are not constantly becoming problematic.
It does not matter how much patience or skill is required to play a mill deck. Patience and skill are not the criteria for whether something should be allowed in the game. The fact that it exists in other games is also not a criterion.
Decks with milling as a win condition should be actively discouraged in Standard because Hearthstone lacks the mechanical infrastructure to allow a player to tech against it. Saying you should "learn to play around it" is a ridiculous oversimplification. For some archetypes, that is literally impossible.
If they print an evergreen neutral card that lets me move my "graveyard" into my deck, I might reconsider my position.
I was severely disappointed they gave warriors freaking pirates after so many dragon synergies in previous expansions. This was the dragon expansion! Come on!
Next: Keeping on dragon theme, a spell that counters dragons in a way (but it's not totally worthless against normal minions)
In order for mill to be anything other than negative for the game, there would need to be far more graveyard/burned interaction to offer a counter beyond 'do something your deck is explicitly designed not to do". That some people enjoy the playstyle and that the playstyle requires a skilled operator does not mitigate the potential downside for the meta.
I am a die hard Warlock player and I can say the EASIEST way to beat the Quest Priest deck is to not do ANY damage to your opponent until you have a substantial amount of damage on the board. With the Galakrond Zoo deck, I wait until I have a number of minions on the board and drop a buff to do a good 10-15 damage in a turn. From that point, it is really hard for Priest to come back. Even if they start bringing out the control parts of the deck that that wanna be Obsidian Statue, having a number of minions on board minimalizes the damage done to your board.
Also, I prefer to run the Jumbo Imps over Sea Giants because you almost always lose your imps and other demons to taunt minions. Doing this makes sure that the Priest players will use their mass removals on the weenee minions you have out, thus reducing the cost of your big guys and won't be as impactful as when you drop your Sea Giant when you have full board just to have it mass removed.
People who do not play an archetype or style are always going to be against it. Which is why I despise Hunter decks...
With that being said, Milling your opponent takes a lot of patience and strategy. If you let one minion go for a turn too long, it could cost you. It's easier to disrupt than people give it credit. Both in Wild and Standard, when I have played and played against Mill decks, they are a 50% deck at best because of 2 specific set ups:
1) Aggro will almost always dominate you,
2) If you miss part of your combo to continue your mill, you're screwed.
Anyone that says that it must be removed from Standard and/or Wild is because they don't know how to play around it. Milling is basically a combo deck... and as it has always been known in MTG and other CCGs... Aggro>Combo>Control>Aggro. There are always going to be the games where you just get crap draws and that is how the cookie crumbles, but ultimately if you're a control played... expect to get owned by combo decks.
I don't think the meta class popularity fluctuations can be explained, a any given time, with a single event. It takes awfully a lot of coincidence, momentum and sheer luck to start up a trend.
Tombs of Terror: Heroic
So I'm trying to clear this before the next adventure comes out, but Tekhan seems impossible. Anyone have tips for success?
Should milling be a genuine supported strategy in standard Hearthstone?
I don't think it's something they should ever push with powerful cards but keeping it at memey/tier 4 level with the occasional card that can be used for it directly or indirectly is fine. Unique archetypes are one of the things that make card games fun, even though i've never played mill myself I appreciate that some people like it.
I've been playing a TON of magic:arena for like four months now and i've honestly never lost a single game to a mill deck. Even when i'm playing generally slow decks they still get beat down, i even beat one with one of the basic decks you start with which are terrible. I don't understand how it actually wins any games in standard. Closest i've been is like 6 cards left in deck lol.
The 2019 Hearthstone Year in Review
"Quick reactions to game balance"?
You mean like the two months of Evolve-stone leading up to the launch of DoD?
Or the nearly three months we spent with cheaper Lyra's Pocket Galaxy and Extra Arms?
What a joke.
Try this: Mark a 2019 calendar in two colors, red for a meta containing cards that need to be nerfed and eventually get nerfed, and green for a meta containing no cards that need to be nerfed (indicating a balanced meta). Guess which color you'll see a lot more of.
How to beat Quest Priest
Also if you are using a deck that is weak to 1 specific match-up, it's often not worth it to make changes to the deck. You might make this single one better, but it will probably come at the cost from other match-ups. Just take the loss and win the next two games ;)
Hearthstone's Most Popular Classes in 2019 - Are We Even Surprised?
after what happened in 2018, can't say I feel the same way.
Hearthstone's Most Popular Classes in 2019 - Are We Even Surprised?
Plot twist warlock with Dollmaster Dorian has been pushed hard this year, only getting no love from DoD. Its just not that popular or too inconsistent. I think there's plenty of potential here, but since the dollmaster himself will be leaving standard this April, it needs alot of support to get anywhere in the next expansion. That aside, having played both this and questlock, I can say with confidence both are good enough for standard, that 7 mana dollmaster tempo swing is particularly good, but it really suffers hard from warlock's lack of healing.
Its not like team5 doesnt have a vision for warlock, it just havent work out to be anything more than a meme deck.
Hearthstone's Most Popular Classes in 2019 - Are We Even Surprised?
I dunno man. Valdris HandLock feels pretty damn Good for me. Holding 12 cards and dropping a 2/2 and an 11/11 Taunt is pretty sick. I have a soft spot for Warlock and really like the fact that every expansion so far has featured a Zoo Type Deck.
Hearthstone's Most Popular Classes in 2019 - Are We Even Surprised?
Cool graphic, interesting to see Shamanstone rise and fall.
Midrange Dragonqueen Warlock
the beautiful moment when u see a deck full of legendaries and u actually have every single one of them: "You son of a bitch, I'm in"
Hearthstone's Most Popular Classes in 2019 - Are We Even Surprised?
Probably lucky that I like Hunter, then!
'Servant of Yogg-Saron' Tryouts
How come all of the brawls that just say "lots of RNG" come back so often?
Should milling be a genuine supported strategy in standard Hearthstone?
This is - by itself - an excellent point/question. So obviously for the first time in HS history Blizz did buffs a while back, and they've clearly been HoFing basic/classic cards without much pause. Why don't they "buff" some good Wild counters by making them Classic and bringing them back into Standard permanently? It would give them more room to print "weird" cards/cards for strategies like Mill since the counter would already be there.
And to be crystal clear since I HATED that Halloween nonsense of bringing back all those OP cards and ruining the meta for a month: I mean very specifically cards like Dirty Rat, maybe Loatheb, etc. that are just good, all-purpose tech cards that have never really been adequately (and I use that word since I know there obviously have been some stabs at Dirty Rat 2: Dirtiest Boogaloo like Demonic Project & Hecklebot) reprinted.
Should milling be a genuine supported strategy in standard Hearthstone?
I realized something lately.. you know it doesn't matter which style of deck you play.. you play to win.. if a mechanic is "unfair" your deck should be as much unfair as theirs you are doing other kind of unfair things.. let's take freeze mage vs aggro for example..
freeze mage constantly freezes the board and have a burst OTK but aggro is also unfair cause they spam mana efficient minions which give you tonnes of tempo, which is also unfair.. when you play a specific playstyle you feel like some other playstyles are wrong.. and it's just not the right way to think about it..
The question is how polarized are the matchups that's really the annoying part.. and how hopeless it feels sometimes but in general being able to actually play a game which also feels when you play a tier 3 deck vs the meta decks.. but well that's how card game work.. if your deck doesn't do something unfair what are you even doing.
@aliradicali you mean [Hearthstone Card (coldlinght oracle) Not Found] not seer.
How to beat Quest Priest
You do NOT attack them, they got 2 karthut defenders, a zilliax, 2 water bearers, and hero power they heal face really quickly and even from low hp they suddenly burst heal..
so you should build a board and fight for it, don't overextend save value as much as possible they will eventually start playing stuff kill everything you see with the minions on board.
control normally wins against quest priest since it got limited value as long as you don't hit them in the face.
I always lost when I hit them in the face for low amounts of damage, you only hit them when they already completed the quest, or when you have 2 turn or same turn lethal.
it's a slow game vs any deck.
oh and if you are face hunter.. well good luck 20% chance to win.. play normally and hope they don't draw their healing cards.
What NEW thing do you think would benefit Hearthstone?
I've always thought they should add a "Time Travel" mode.
A new form of standard where you actually have a chance to play decks of the past in the meta they were originally played in.
Each month the mode will rotate to a new "meta"
Ex:
Maybe have special rewards for the mode that give out packs from that meta to help newer players develop their wild sets, which could help improve the health of wild if more people have a larger collection to work with.
Should milling be a genuine supported strategy in standard Hearthstone?
Loads of decks can't beat OTK combos except by going face. Cards in hand are almost entirely untouchable in standard HS at the moment.
Why the hell should combo and control players feel safe in the know that THEIR win condition can't be disrupted by other players when every other wincon can be? I'm not averse to the idea of more interaction, but dear god let's not pretend that all the strategies already in the game have adequate tech counters. It's been years since my old pal Dirty Rat was in standard...
What NEW thing do you think would benefit Hearthstone?
First, they should spend more time worrying about balance before adding anything new.
In that vein, however, some sweeping changes in the name of balance would be most welcome and would seem like new additions.
They should completely overhaul some of the classes (including evergreen cards, class-identity keywords, and hero powers) so that they are not constantly becoming problematic.
Should milling be a genuine supported strategy in standard Hearthstone?
It does not matter how much patience or skill is required to play a mill deck. Patience and skill are not the criteria for whether something should be allowed in the game. The fact that it exists in other games is also not a criterion.
Decks with milling as a win condition should be actively discouraged in Standard because Hearthstone lacks the mechanical infrastructure to allow a player to tech against it. Saying you should "learn to play around it" is a ridiculous oversimplification. For some archetypes, that is literally impossible.
If they print an evergreen neutral card that lets me move my "graveyard" into my deck, I might reconsider my position.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
I was severely disappointed they gave warriors freaking pirates after so many dragon synergies in previous expansions. This was the dragon expansion! Come on!
Next: Keeping on dragon theme, a spell that counters dragons in a way (but it's not totally worthless against normal minions)
Should milling be a genuine supported strategy in standard Hearthstone?
In order for mill to be anything other than negative for the game, there would need to be far more graveyard/burned interaction to offer a counter beyond 'do something your deck is explicitly designed not to do". That some people enjoy the playstyle and that the playstyle requires a skilled operator does not mitigate the potential downside for the meta.
How to beat Quest Priest
I am a die hard Warlock player and I can say the EASIEST way to beat the Quest Priest deck is to not do ANY damage to your opponent until you have a substantial amount of damage on the board. With the Galakrond Zoo deck, I wait until I have a number of minions on the board and drop a buff to do a good 10-15 damage in a turn. From that point, it is really hard for Priest to come back. Even if they start bringing out the control parts of the deck that that wanna be Obsidian Statue, having a number of minions on board minimalizes the damage done to your board.
Also, I prefer to run the Jumbo Imps over Sea Giants because you almost always lose your imps and other demons to taunt minions. Doing this makes sure that the Priest players will use their mass removals on the weenee minions you have out, thus reducing the cost of your big guys and won't be as impactful as when you drop your Sea Giant when you have full board just to have it mass removed.
M E C H L E T O N
Ay yo McNulty! I got Bird on that daytime murder, when you all wanna meet?
Should milling be a genuine supported strategy in standard Hearthstone?
People who do not play an archetype or style are always going to be against it. Which is why I despise Hunter decks...
With that being said, Milling your opponent takes a lot of patience and strategy. If you let one minion go for a turn too long, it could cost you. It's easier to disrupt than people give it credit. Both in Wild and Standard, when I have played and played against Mill decks, they are a 50% deck at best because of 2 specific set ups:
1) Aggro will almost always dominate you,
2) If you miss part of your combo to continue your mill, you're screwed.
Anyone that says that it must be removed from Standard and/or Wild is because they don't know how to play around it. Milling is basically a combo deck... and as it has always been known in MTG and other CCGs... Aggro>Combo>Control>Aggro. There are always going to be the games where you just get crap draws and that is how the cookie crumbles, but ultimately if you're a control played... expect to get owned by combo decks.
Hearthstone's Most Popular Classes in 2019 - Are We Even Surprised?
I don't think the meta class popularity fluctuations can be explained, a any given time, with a single event.
It takes awfully a lot of coincidence, momentum and sheer luck to start up a trend.
Hearthstone's Most Popular Classes in 2019 - Are We Even Surprised?
My poor boy Druid. A few brief efforts towards the top, and otherwise nothing :') I miss my OG Druid cards.