I don't. Standard is shamans and wild is as you described.
I do my dailies and then play something else. Arena has never interested me and I couldn't care less about Battlegrounds.
Just waiting for December 10th, really...
I come from the future. Standar Is Still plagued by shaman but at least nerfs are coming. Wild Is Still fun :)
Yeah, and now those shamans are even trickling into wild. I guess they got tired of the constant mirror matches. Oh well, Galakrond zoolock works surprisingly well against them, so I don't mind it too much yet.
Ah yes, and then the stats on hsreplay are wrong, too? A whopping 4.2% difference between the best Galakrond deck and the best quest Galakrond deck. Definitely seems like they're doing it wrong, yup.
Galakrond shaman isn't a value deck. It's a midrange deck that exhausts control decks out of their board-clears due to their endless waves of minions, and makes aggro and other midrange decks feel miserable due to their near-infinite amount of rush minions that cause them to never lose the board.
Just because it can afford to lose a card during the mulligan doesn't mean it should. The deck isn't looking to go the distance where it will need Corrupt the Waters' value, as the game has long been decided by then. In Thrall's favor, of course.
Eternal formats in CCGs typically have very low turn-counters - games are decided, one-way-or-another, by turn four or five. That isn't to say that all games of Vintage MtG, or Modern, end on turn four or five - but fast-aggro might end it, while slower decks will have stabilised, or combo decks will have drawn into their win-condition. You need to achieve inevitability by the end of the early-game, or beginning of the mid-game. If your deck doesn't do its "big thing" consistently by turn four or five, it isn't going to flourish in any game-play environment in which the majority of decks do. There isn't anything wrong with having games decided quickly - provided there are lots of different types of decks, winning games in lots of different types of ways.
Importantly, there isn't any sort of fix to having a low fundamental turn - if MtG or Blizzard nerfed a hundred cards in their eternal formats, new decks would be found that achieve early inevitability in a few days or weeks. High fundamental turns are really only to be found in curated formats with low card-counts. In other words - if you don't like games regularly being decided before turn six, eternal formats will never appeal to you.
I don't mind short games. I certainly don't like long ones.
I don't mind fighting toe-to-toe for 6 turns and lose. I just dislike losing by turn-6 without having decent chances to do anything except being countered turn by turn until I die.
If Wild is supposed to be Wild, we deserve at least WILD TECH CARDS.
That is, good tech cards, actually capable of consistently disrupt a specific strategy (more effective the more specific a strategy is), AND being still decent drops in every other game.
The way Corrupt the Waters is designed it is bound to be OP at one point in time. It is too easy to complete, and double battlecry can literally mean anything. Double heal, double damage, double the board, battlecries can do anything. It is just too powerful and it is too easy to put it into every shaman deck. It limits design space and there is just nothing not OP about it.
Maybe it is not the key card in the best deck right now. But then later there will be another OP shaman deck that uses the quest later. You can nerf whatever you like but the quest will continue to be played in shaman decks everywhere, and I mean everywhere until it is nerfed. Even if right now it isn't the best card, it will always be a really good card.
Eternal formats in CCGs typically have very low turn-counters - games are decided, one-way-or-another, by turn four or five. That isn't to say that all games of Vintage MtG, or Modern, end on turn four or five - but fast-aggro might end it, while slower decks will have stabilised, or combo decks will have drawn into their win-condition. You need to achieve inevitability by the end of the early-game, or beginning of the mid-game. If your deck doesn't do its "big thing" consistently by turn four or five, it isn't going to flourish in any game-play environment in which the majority of decks do. There isn't anything wrong with having games decided quickly - provided there are lots of different types of decks, winning games in lots of different types of ways.
Importantly, there isn't any sort of fix to having a low fundamental turn - if MtG or Blizzard nerfed a hundred cards in their eternal formats, new decks would be found that achieve early inevitability in a few days or weeks. High fundamental turns are really only to be found in curated formats with low card-counts. In other words - if you don't like games regularly being decided before turn six, eternal formats will never appeal to you.
Actually, if we had an efficient (2 or 3 mana) version of Eater of Secrets that provides HEALING, and a Golakka Crawler for Mechs, Wild would be almost ok.
No love for E.M.P. Operative? Kidding - if they dropped the cost to 2 (or 3 but then give her +1/+1 for the destroyed mech like the crab) maybe it would see some play but way overcosted as printed.
On the secrets, lowering the cost of Eater AND buffing with healing would be way too much - I would say make it a 3 mana 2/2 OR to your suggestion maybe a 3 mana 1/2 that heals you for 1 or 2 for each secret eaten instead of gaining +1/+1.
But yeah I would love to see a cheaper neutral secret removal tool.
I have been counting my pack openings for almost 2 years now, and I can say that in my case, opening over 25 packs without legendary is more common than obtaining one within the first 20 packs (guaranteed legendary within 10 packs at the start of any expansion excluded).
That seems unlucky but certainly not impossible if the 1-in-20 stat is true, unless you've bought inordinate numbers of packs. I don't know in what form you've collected the data but I'd be very interested to see a distribution of the intervals between legendaries and how closely it reflects the bell curve you'd expect.
I looked into it and according to the wiki Blizzard has confirmed a 1-in-5 average drop rate for epics and 1-in-20 for legendaries in order to comply with a chinese law regarding lootboxes, although that announcement may only apply to the Chinese region. https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Card_pack#Statistics
Obviously not that person but I for the first time have started documenting my packs with DoD and my intervals (post the one in the first 10 packs - which I got on pack 9 so that's sort of pity-timer-ish in itself) are:
Legendary 2 - 18 packs
Legendary 3 - 4 packs
Legendary 4 - 32 packs
Legendary 5 - 38 packs
Legendary 6 - 16 packs
Legendary 7 - 22 packs
Legendary 8 - 10 packs
So that's exactly the average of 1:20 (7 legendaries in 140 packs). But have to tell you those two times I got over 30 packs between legendaries had me bummed, especially since they were back-to-back. I guess that's kind of the crux - lowering the timer would make people "feel better" since it really sucks when you hit the pity timer (or come very close) more than once in a short period.
To the anecdote from phiL up there - if I ever bought an expansion bundle and only opened for this example say 3 legendaries that would absolutely be enough to make me never spend another dollar on this game, if not quit it outright. That's the fine line any product - let alone a "loot boxy" game - has to walk: balancing getting the most money from your customers without alienating them when the odds bank against them and losing them as customer entirely. I obviously don't have any of Blizzard's data, but I can't imagine they'd lose that much money by lowering the pity time to 30 or 35 packs, which would lower the average to around 15-18 packs. Not a big swing, and would quell at least some of the bad feelings about the general lopsided value of the dusting system/duplicate epics/etc.
Now if we want to get really crazy, my thought was: Conditionally lowering the pity timer. For example, if you open 30/35/40 packs without a legendary, your next pity time is lowered to just 20/25/30 packs (pick whichever numbers you like). That way you wouldn't run into my situation where I had multiple 30+ pack opens in a row and would again lower the overall average by a little without "giving away something for free" since the majority of players rarely experience that kind of thing.
if by a couple of days you mean a couple of hours then yes. go for it. im serious tho, i actually believe the nerfs are coming out in 90 minutes to 180minutes.
at the very late tomorrow with the new tavern brawl. but from what i gather from streamers, and the general consensus of when new patches are out its usually on tuesdays, by 18h CEST
Well, I was just in time to experience it then :)
I'm 17-2 so very happy with it.
Also, will be interesting to see if they nerf Faceless Corruptor, as I have a golden copy.
Yes, I have the same experience with my highlander Mage deck, no issues dealing with Shaman... at rank 14... I chalk it up to people netdecking who don't know how to use the deck.
if by a couple of days you mean a couple of hours then yes. go for it. im serious tho, i actually believe the nerfs are coming out in 90 minutes to 180minutes.
at the very late tomorrow with the new tavern brawl. but from what i gather from streamers, and the general consensus of when new patches are out its usually on tuesdays, by 19h CEST
I actually love Wild, but not for the ladder, mostly for the crazy shenanigans that you can pull off with all the old cards. I used to care about climbing the ladder, but I honestly don't care about that anymore. I just want to have fun with the weird crap that I pull off. Although, as far as competitive decks go, I still love my warlock mecha'thun deck. I still have a good 50% win rate with it and it's fun.
I'm a F2P and have been mostly playing Arena. Got a golden Legendary and thought I would have a see what I could swap it for, if there were any decks I could build. Turns out I have just enough dust to build Galakrond Shaman. I'm probably not playing it very well, but even so, it smashes all over other decks.
I can see why the more regular/invested players are calling this out. It'll be a couple of days of fun for me, but no doubt a real PITA for most people.
Wowzah. Glad that there is a balance patch coming.
The main issue I have with secret mages is that you cannot run secret counter and be OK. They still have lots of burst damage and lot of cheap minions. I think the biggest reason secret mages are so powerful is that it is very easy to get both secrets and minions out at the same time with no loss of tempo.
Actually, if we had an efficient (2 or 3 mana) version of Eater of Secrets that provides HEALING, and a Golakka Crawler for Mechs, Wild would be almost ok.
Fair enough, this version is a few days old from before Shaman started running any counters or healing. The other versions run little spells and spell damage or my other favorite has a bunch of Stealth minions.
I have been counting my pack openings for almost 2 years now, and I can say that in my case, opening over 25 packs without legendary is more common than obtaining one within the first 20 packs (guaranteed legendary within 10 packs at the start of any expansion excluded).
That seems unlucky but certainly not impossible if the 1-in-20 stat is true, unless you've bought inordinate numbers of packs. I don't know in what form you've collected the data but I'd be very interested to see a distribution of the intervals between legendaries and how closely it reflects the bell curve you'd expect.
I looked into it and according to the wiki Blizzard has confirmed a 1-in-5 average drop rate for epics and 1-in-20 for legendaries in order to comply with a chinese law regarding lootboxes, although that announcement may only apply to the Chinese region. https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Card_pack#Statistics
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
Yeah, and now those shamans are even trickling into wild. I guess they got tired of the constant mirror matches. Oh well, Galakrond zoolock works surprisingly well against them, so I don't mind it too much yet.
Hearthstone Balance Changes Confirmed For Next Week
Ah yes, and then the stats on hsreplay are wrong, too? A whopping 4.2% difference between the best Galakrond deck and the best quest Galakrond deck. Definitely seems like they're doing it wrong, yup.
Galakrond shaman isn't a value deck. It's a midrange deck that exhausts control decks out of their board-clears due to their endless waves of minions, and makes aggro and other midrange decks feel miserable due to their near-infinite amount of rush minions that cause them to never lose the board.
Just because it can afford to lose a card during the mulligan doesn't mean it should. The deck isn't looking to go the distance where it will need Corrupt the Waters' value, as the game has long been decided by then. In Thrall's favor, of course.
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
I don't mind short games. I certainly don't like long ones.
I don't mind fighting toe-to-toe for 6 turns and lose. I just dislike losing by turn-6 without having decent chances to do anything except being countered turn by turn until I die.
Sometimes even dropping Eater of Secrets is insufficient.
If Wild is supposed to be Wild, we deserve at least WILD TECH CARDS.
That is, good tech cards, actually capable of consistently disrupt a specific strategy (more effective the more specific a strategy is), AND being still decent drops in every other game.
Hearthstone Balance Changes Confirmed For Next Week
The way Corrupt the Waters is designed it is bound to be OP at one point in time. It is too easy to complete, and double battlecry can literally mean anything. Double heal, double damage, double the board, battlecries can do anything. It is just too powerful and it is too easy to put it into every shaman deck. It limits design space and there is just nothing not OP about it.
Maybe it is not the key card in the best deck right now. But then later there will be another OP shaman deck that uses the quest later. You can nerf whatever you like but the quest will continue to be played in shaman decks everywhere, and I mean everywhere until it is nerfed. Even if right now it isn't the best card, it will always be a really good card.
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
Eternal formats in CCGs typically have very low turn-counters - games are decided, one-way-or-another, by turn four or five. That isn't to say that all games of Vintage MtG, or Modern, end on turn four or five - but fast-aggro might end it, while slower decks will have stabilised, or combo decks will have drawn into their win-condition. You need to achieve inevitability by the end of the early-game, or beginning of the mid-game. If your deck doesn't do its "big thing" consistently by turn four or five, it isn't going to flourish in any game-play environment in which the majority of decks do. There isn't anything wrong with having games decided quickly - provided there are lots of different types of decks, winning games in lots of different types of ways.
Importantly, there isn't any sort of fix to having a low fundamental turn - if MtG or Blizzard nerfed a hundred cards in their eternal formats, new decks would be found that achieve early inevitability in a few days or weeks. High fundamental turns are really only to be found in curated formats with low card-counts. In other words - if you don't like games regularly being decided before turn six, eternal formats will never appeal to you.
Ads in between posts
I am going to bump this thread because there are still ads inside of posts. I don't know if it is just me or what but it is pretty annoying.
Shu'ma
Is Shuma actually good? Quest Hunter seem to like that card.
Galakrond Shaman
yes i believe they will nerf faceless corruptor too. other potential nerfs are at queen alextraza ancharr and necrium apothecary
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
Yeah, of course the new anti-secret should cost less and gave a proportionate body. Say 2/2/3 or 2/2/2. With face healing.
Eater buffing its own body is nearly useless in the economy of a game against a Secret Mage.
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
No love for E.M.P. Operative? Kidding - if they dropped the cost to 2 (or 3 but then give her +1/+1 for the destroyed mech like the crab) maybe it would see some play but way overcosted as printed.
On the secrets, lowering the cost of Eater AND buffing with healing would be way too much - I would say make it a 3 mana 2/2 OR to your suggestion maybe a 3 mana 1/2 that heals you for 1 or 2 for each secret eaten instead of gaining +1/+1.
But yeah I would love to see a cheaper neutral secret removal tool.
Should the pity timer be lower?
Obviously not that person but I for the first time have started documenting my packs with DoD and my intervals (post the one in the first 10 packs - which I got on pack 9 so that's sort of pity-timer-ish in itself) are:
Legendary 2 - 18 packs
Legendary 3 - 4 packs
Legendary 4 - 32 packs
Legendary 5 - 38 packs
Legendary 6 - 16 packs
Legendary 7 - 22 packs
Legendary 8 - 10 packs
So that's exactly the average of 1:20 (7 legendaries in 140 packs). But have to tell you those two times I got over 30 packs between legendaries had me bummed, especially since they were back-to-back. I guess that's kind of the crux - lowering the timer would make people "feel better" since it really sucks when you hit the pity timer (or come very close) more than once in a short period.
To the anecdote from phiL up there - if I ever bought an expansion bundle and only opened for this example say 3 legendaries that would absolutely be enough to make me never spend another dollar on this game, if not quit it outright. That's the fine line any product - let alone a "loot boxy" game - has to walk: balancing getting the most money from your customers without alienating them when the odds bank against them and losing them as customer entirely. I obviously don't have any of Blizzard's data, but I can't imagine they'd lose that much money by lowering the pity time to 30 or 35 packs, which would lower the average to around 15-18 packs. Not a big swing, and would quell at least some of the bad feelings about the general lopsided value of the dusting system/duplicate epics/etc.
Now if we want to get really crazy, my thought was: Conditionally lowering the pity timer. For example, if you open 30/35/40 packs without a legendary, your next pity time is lowered to just 20/25/30 packs (pick whichever numbers you like). That way you wouldn't run into my situation where I had multiple 30+ pack opens in a row and would again lower the overall average by a little without "giving away something for free" since the majority of players rarely experience that kind of thing.
Galakrond Shaman
Well, I was just in time to experience it then :)
I'm 17-2 so very happy with it.
Also, will be interesting to see if they nerf Faceless Corruptor, as I have a golden copy.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Given that it's been a whole day with no guesses, I'll give two hints.
1. It's a spell.
2. Lines 1, 2, and 5 are about real life. 3, 4, and 6 are about Hearthstone.
Standard Meta Report #15 - Fixing (Yet Another) Shaman Meta
Yes, I have the same experience with my highlander Mage deck, no issues dealing with Shaman... at rank 14... I chalk it up to people netdecking who don't know how to use the deck.
Galakrond Shaman
if by a couple of days you mean a couple of hours then yes. go for it. im serious tho, i actually believe the nerfs are coming out in 90 minutes to 180minutes.
at the very late tomorrow with the new tavern brawl. but from what i gather from streamers, and the general consensus of when new patches are out its usually on tuesdays, by 19h CEST
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
I actually love Wild, but not for the ladder, mostly for the crazy shenanigans that you can pull off with all the old cards. I used to care about climbing the ladder, but I honestly don't care about that anymore. I just want to have fun with the weird crap that I pull off. Although, as far as competitive decks go, I still love my warlock mecha'thun deck. I still have a good 50% win rate with it and it's fun.
Galakrond Shaman
Just make sure to keep your cards and get any returned dust on them if you don't want to play with the nerfs coming out.
Galakrond Shaman
ALL THINGS HOLY!
I'm a F2P and have been mostly playing Arena. Got a golden Legendary and thought I would have a see what I could swap it for, if there were any decks I could build. Turns out I have just enough dust to build Galakrond Shaman. I'm probably not playing it very well, but even so, it smashes all over other decks.
I can see why the more regular/invested players are calling this out. It'll be a couple of days of fun for me, but no doubt a real PITA for most people.
Wowzah. Glad that there is a balance patch coming.
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
The main issue I have with secret mages is that you cannot run secret counter and be OK. They still have lots of burst damage and lot of cheap minions. I think the biggest reason secret mages are so powerful is that it is very easy to get both secrets and minions out at the same time with no loss of tempo.
Minions like [Hearthstone Card (Cabal lackey) Not Found], Mad Scientist, Kirin Tor Mage, and Kabal Crystal Runner allow mage's to play secrets and minions at the same time, and then there is Medivh's Valet and Cloud Prince which basically allows you to run 4 copies of Fireball and Frostbolt.
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
Actually, if we had an efficient (2 or 3 mana) version of Eater of Secrets that provides HEALING, and a Golakka Crawler for Mechs, Wild would be almost ok.
[Legend] Leprosy SMOrc Hunter
Fair enough, this version is a few days old from before Shaman started running any counters or healing. The other versions run little spells and spell damage or my other favorite has a bunch of Stealth minions.
Hearthstone Balance Changes Confirmed For Next Week
Ssssshhhhhhhh!! Rogue conspirators like myself are trying to make sure Necrium Apothecary slips through unfazed.
Should the pity timer be lower?
That seems unlucky but certainly not impossible if the 1-in-20 stat is true, unless you've bought inordinate numbers of packs. I don't know in what form you've collected the data but I'd be very interested to see a distribution of the intervals between legendaries and how closely it reflects the bell curve you'd expect.
I looked into it and according to the wiki Blizzard has confirmed a 1-in-5 average drop rate for epics and 1-in-20 for legendaries in order to comply with a chinese law regarding lootboxes, although that announcement may only apply to the Chinese region. https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Card_pack#Statistics
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Note that it 'Stealth until your next turn' doesn't apply until you play the Dragon.
Next up, a Murloc with spell synergy.
Random
My personal favourite. So versatile, its appropriate for any occasion.