I was actually excited about Battlegrounds, but having played it for a day I must agree with other players. Here is a quote I made in another thread in response to it:
So, having played early access battlegrounds, I wanted to share my thoughts. While overall a fun mode, there isn't enough dimensions to keep most players entrained past initial week in my opinion. Already in 1 day of playing I started seeing the same end-game patterns over and over. The main end-game strategies are very repetitive (I really hope the complexity of this mode increases to keep it enjoyable long-term):
1. Go all in on beasts: Get Mama Bear and beasts that spawn more beasts (i.e. Rat Pack) and a cleaver or 2 (Cave Hydra)
2: Go all in on mechs: Get Junkbot and mechs that spawn more mechs (magnetize them) and a cleaver or 2 (Foe Reaper 4000), sound familiar?
3: Go all in on demons: Get Wrathweaver and rotate a bunch of demons between rounds to buff him, eventually get Annihilan Battlemaster with ~200 health (optionally get Malganis temporarily so Wrathweaver stops hurting you)
4: Go all in on murlocs: Try to discover poison + divine shield from Gentle Megasaur for every minion on board, or give it manually to your murlocs through other battlecries.
Oh, and of course, regardless of which of the only 4 endgame strategies you pick, buff/max out your Nightmare Amalgam, giving it a ton of health, poison, divine shield, etc. and magnetizing anything you come in contact with.
In my opinion, the Co-Op mode (2 players fighting a rogue minion, similar to some Brawls - but more variety and ability to use the entire card sample space) would have been a more interesting addition. Don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying the mode, but I doubt I still will a week from now.
I disagree slightly. Due to RNG in re-rolls, going all in on a specific tribe is risky. When it works (which it usually does for at least 1/8 players), it is hard to beat, which is why you usually see one of the strategies you mentioned in the finals of the round. But more often, you can't roll the pieces you need and then it fails hard. The best strategy for always having a decent (top-four) finish is to mix tribes and strategically use buffs and selling minions to create a solid board. That strategy is pretty fun, because its always a little different and requires many tough choices.
I have noticed one disturbing trend though---which is that my finishing position, no matter what strategy I use, is usually wholly dependent on how many Nightmare Amalgams I'm offered in the game. If I get offered 1 or none, I'm almost always finishing at the bottom. If I get offered 4-5, I almost always finish at the top. I've started tracking (will post results after 50 runs or so) but so far after tracking for 10 runs its worked out exactly as I thought: More amalgams always equals better finish.
If that ends up true, it reduces the mode to rolling for 1 card, which is pretty terrible design.
Yes, Amalgam is probably the overall single best minion, especially since its so low tier, you can start buffing it early and whats more, you can put Poisonous on it.
That being said, it is by no means "if i dont get amalgam, i cant win". Yes, it improves your chances, but it does not make or break the run in on itself.
How many CCGs can say that they didn't steal ideas from other CCGs. At this stage, I would be at all surprised if Magic borrowed ideas from Hearthstone.
Nether Portal is interesting. While it would be largely unplayable, it could allow for some strategy to rush one or two tiers on your tarvern while this would produce minions/gold for you. Tier 4 might be too late tho.
Some ppl might not like that they are "stealing" ideas from other CCGs, but i for one like to see them incorporate all the best ideas and make a great game. Woot woot!
I've been constantly amazed this past week at the rollercoaster of strategies and comps that surfaced, and how fast the meta settled; yet even with the meta settled, things are still fluctuating, with RNG being the constant that makes everything uncertain!
My personal thoughts- I don't feel that Zul'Jin is an auto-include in Hunter. Yes, it very often wins you the game when played, but any 10-mana card has risks associated with it, and will often be a dead draw in the critical early turns of the game. I also think that while you very often include cards in packages with Zul'Jin, there's a lot of customization options that make Zul'Jin decks very interesting to build.
About the Shudderwock-esque designs- I personally feel they are good for the game in small numbers. Having a large payoff card helps enable unique strategies, which encourages deck and archetype diversity. Even though Shudderwock encourages you to run a lot of Battlecry minions, there are a whole lot of those to choose from, which gives you a lot of choice when building your deck even though you're mostly limited to a specific pool of minions. My biggest complaint with these types of "replay" cards is actually the length that their animations can take, haha.
You're totally right- ideally I'd love to sit down with a friend and get some specific matchup testing in. Unfortunately as a college student during exam season it's been difficult for me to find time, and I've had to settle for ten ladder games. Definitely owe the readers an apology- will of course expand the quality of my testing when time allows.
The concept for this card was pretty easy to pin down, but I spent twenty minutes fiddling with numbers before I realised I suck at balancing, so I just made it a vanilla 5/5 split among two bodies, though I'm sure it could be improved.
The strategy is obviously to use Seath, or other taunts to protect the Crystal. An immune minion with buffs could get out of hand pretty easily, so the Crystal gives 'Can't be targeted by spells or Hero Powers' as a double edged sword.
The card in it's current state is basically Super Simian Sphere, but with Taunt and the ability to kill it.
Interestimg but only one game vs each of the big tier decks. Im hoping for more testing. I have all the cards including the alternatives provided here so i might give it a spin
Man I cannot wait until zuljin rotates out of standard, every time I see a hunter deck with him in it I dont see a hunter deck with zuljin in it I see a zuljin deck with other cards because they're all the same package. And it's not just hunter I hate "auto include package" for any class druid in KFT where to just swap out the win condition like a lightbulb is just as shitty, it's the shudderwock mentality where you just play "these cards" and then play this other card and you'll win its lazy deckbuilding
I was actually excited about Battlegrounds, but having played it for a day I must agree with other players. Here is a quote I made in another thread in response to it:
So, having played early access battlegrounds, I wanted to share my thoughts. While overall a fun mode, there isn't enough dimensions to keep most players entrained past initial week in my opinion. Already in 1 day of playing I started seeing the same end-game patterns over and over. The main end-game strategies are very repetitive (I really hope the complexity of this mode increases to keep it enjoyable long-term):
1. Go all in on beasts: Get Mama Bear and beasts that spawn more beasts (i.e. Rat Pack) and a cleaver or 2 (Cave Hydra)
2: Go all in on mechs: Get Junkbot and mechs that spawn more mechs (magnetize them) and a cleaver or 2 (Foe Reaper 4000), sound familiar?
3: Go all in on demons: Get Wrathweaver and rotate a bunch of demons between rounds to buff him, eventually get Annihilan Battlemaster with ~200 health (optionally get Malganis temporarily so Wrathweaver stops hurting you)
4: Go all in on murlocs: Try to discover poison + divine shield from Gentle Megasaur for every minion on board, or give it manually to your murlocs through other battlecries.
Oh, and of course, regardless of which of the only 4 endgame strategies you pick, buff/max out your Nightmare Amalgam, giving it a ton of health, poison, divine shield, etc. and magnetizing anything you come in contact with.
In my opinion, the Co-Op mode (2 players fighting a rogue minion, similar to some Brawls - but more variety and ability to use the entire card sample space) would have been a more interesting addition. Don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying the mode, but I doubt I still will a week from now.
I disagree slightly. Due to RNG in re-rolls, going all in on a specific tribe is risky. When it works (which it usually does for at least 1/8 players), it is hard to beat, which is why you usually see one of the strategies you mentioned in the finals of the round. But more often, you can't roll the pieces you need and then it fails hard. The best strategy for always having a decent (top-four) finish is to mix tribes and strategically use buffs and selling minions to create a solid board. That strategy is pretty fun, because its always a little different and requires many tough choices.
I have noticed one disturbing trend though---which is that my finishing position, no matter what strategy I use, is usually wholly dependent on how many Nightmare Amalgams I'm offered in the game. If I get offered 1 or none, I'm almost always finishing at the bottom. If I get offered 4-5, I almost always finish at the top. I've started tracking (will post results after 50 runs or so) but so far after tracking for 10 runs its worked out exactly as I thought: More amalgams always equals better finish.
If that ends up true, it reduces the mode to rolling for 1 card, which is pretty terrible design.
@Zelgadis (as I can't reply due to browser issues): Demons can work, but require a very specific setup. You need to hard roll early game to find 3 Soul Weavers plus some demons (which usually pop up incidentally). An upgraded Soul Weaver usually gives you enough power through trickled buffs to see you through the early midgame.
You then stop off at level 2 briefly to pick up at least one Amalgam (preferably two), preferably NOT getting a third (Amalgam's major strength in a demon comp is being able to use Toxfin and Annoy-O-Module on it, and being able to do that twice is worth a lot more than the benefit you get from upgrading; you don't want to stay at level 2 for long enough to get 4, particularly since Amalgams are in high demand).
Optionally stop off at level 3 to get multiple copies of Soul Juggler. Optional because demon players often don't really know what they're doing and are in a relative minority anyway, so they'll usually pop up later anyway.
You then rush for level 5 and hard roll for Mal'ganis (to avoid self-damage due to Soul Weaver, which can stack up) and Battlemasters. Ideally, grab a Defender of Argus to give your Battlemaster(s) taunt, which makes them unassailable outside of Poisonous.
Actually winning with Demons is rare since even if done right, Mechs will usually outscale them. But you can pretty reliably make top 4 with them if the early game doesn't screw you on Soul Weavers.
There is a huge difference between current top tiers, and when we had Odd Paladin and Even Shaman at the top.
In the same way there is a difference between POWERFUL vs BROKEN.
And it's not just a matter of power, it's also a matter that current top decks are basically Tempo AND Combo (power from hand) at the same time!
They can build insane boards in the same turn, and you can only hope to hold a counter at the right time, or you're screwed.
So no, if they nerfed the current trio of top decks, the new ones would be obviously very powerful, but not equally broken (Renodecks would probably stabilize on top, with classic Combo rising as meta police, and Odd/Even Tempo to lock the balance).
(And unnerfing some cards would do little to no good on its own, even tho i'd certainly appreciate Yogg unnerfed).
I expect Wild to be very powerful, NOT broken.
Completely agreed on that
There is a huge difference between powerful and broken. Usually the problems arrive when there is a broken COMBO deck that disrupts the rock/paper/scissors rule. Once in a while they appear to annoy us, poor wild players. Being beaten up by a combo deck at turn 5-7 in a regular basis is not cool.
The most recent example is this snip snap warlock. Mechwarper is the main issue, but let's remember that the card that made this deck viable was Plague of Flames (1 mana, wipe the board... totally balanced). Btw, nowadays I've been only playing shaman decks, since devolve solves all my mech related problems (but I have a hard time against secret mages).
I enjoy playing wild because of the multiple synergies between old and new cards, but facing broken decks over and over just cuts the fun out of the game. If I was willing to play a no brainier draw-and-win game, I would play Yu-Gi-Oh, not HS!!
Another thing, that OP stated, but I don't agree, is that wild is low represented. I usually queue in a few seconds, even at higher ranks. Last year, when wild was all about Odd Pally and Big Priest, it was forever to enter a single match, no matter what rank you were.
There is a huge difference between current top tiers, and when we had Odd Paladin and Even Shaman at the top.
In the same way there is a difference between POWERFUL vs BROKEN.
And it's not just a matter of power, it's also a matter that current top decks are basically Tempo AND Combo (power from hand) at the same time!
They can build insane boards in the same turn, and you can only hope to hold a counter at the right time, or you're screwed.
So no, if they nerfed the current trio of top decks, the new ones would be obviously very powerful, but not equally broken (Renodecks would probably stabilize on top, with classic Combo rising as meta police, and Odd/Even Tempo to lock the balance).
(And unnerfing some cards would do little to no good on its own, even tho i'd certainly appreciate Yogg unnerfed).
I expect Wild to be very powerful, NOT broken.
So I agree with everything you've said except for your last sentence.
I think this comes from my perception of Wild should be is different from yours. You expect it to be very powerful, I expect it to be broken. With access to every card it is inevitable that Wild gets out of hand, and that's okay. What's not okay is that Team 5 selectively nerfs some cards/decks but not others. Aviana, Dreadsteed, and Naga Sea Witch are great examples of this since Team 5 was swift to "re-balance" these cards while Barnes was still a large community complaint. So my question is "Why do some cards see immediate action but others took years before Team 5 would step in?".
I think the solution to this problem (I'm about to sound like a broken record) is to introduce a format in between Standard and Wild. Something that allows cards from every set to be played but bans cards that cause broken combos, SN1P-SN4P, un-nerfed Shadowboxer, and un-nerfed Naga Sea Witch.
One obvious argument to that idea is the potential to splitting the player base, but having a split player base is better than having no player base.
Hearthstone Battlegrounds
Yes, Amalgam is probably the overall single best minion, especially since its so low tier, you can start buffing it early and whats more, you can put Poisonous on it.
That being said, it is by no means "if i dont get amalgam, i cant win". Yes, it improves your chances, but it does not make or break the run in on itself.
Legends of Runeterra - Expedition Details
How many CCGs can say that they didn't steal ideas from other CCGs. At this stage, I would be at all surprised if Magic borrowed ideas from Hearthstone.
Convert regular HS cards into HS-BG cards
Slamma Jamma needs to be like Tier 7 :D
Nether Portal is interesting. While it would be largely unplayable, it could allow for some strategy to rush one or two tiers on your tarvern while this would produce minions/gold for you. Tier 4 might be too late tho.
Midrange: Mech Rogue
I played this and made a few changes since I was missing cards and ended up going 7-0. Here's what I changed:
+2 backstab
+2 Clockwork Gnome
+2 Flying Machine
+1 Piloted Shredder
+1 Wargear
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-2 Mechanical Whelp- too slow and unimpactful
-1 Jeeves rarely was useful enough to need 2
-2 Cogmaster Wrench- didn't have it. Not sure how good it is.
-2 vilespine slayer- very slow and usually don't have much to combo with it at that stage in the game
-1 sprint- also too slow as this isn't a great late game deck
Legends of Runeterra - Expedition Details
Some ppl might not like that they are "stealing" ideas from other CCGs, but i for one like to see them incorporate all the best ideas and make a great game. Woot woot!
Meme of the Week: Hearthstone Battlegrounds!
I've been constantly amazed this past week at the rollercoaster of strategies and comps that surfaced, and how fast the meta settled; yet even with the meta settled, things are still fluctuating, with RNG being the constant that makes everything uncertain!
Meta Breaker - Still Swinging in a 3-Class Meta
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
My personal thoughts- I don't feel that Zul'Jin is an auto-include in Hunter. Yes, it very often wins you the game when played, but any 10-mana card has risks associated with it, and will often be a dead draw in the critical early turns of the game. I also think that while you very often include cards in packages with Zul'Jin, there's a lot of customization options that make Zul'Jin decks very interesting to build.
About the Shudderwock-esque designs- I personally feel they are good for the game in small numbers. Having a large payoff card helps enable unique strategies, which encourages deck and archetype diversity. Even though Shudderwock encourages you to run a lot of Battlecry minions, there are a whole lot of those to choose from, which gives you a lot of choice when building your deck even though you're mostly limited to a specific pool of minions. My biggest complaint with these types of "replay" cards is actually the length that their animations can take, haha.
The Best Deck Ever. Period.
The name doesn't lie. This is the greatest deck ever.
Meta Breaker - Still Swinging in a 3-Class Meta
You're totally right- ideally I'd love to sit down with a friend and get some specific matchup testing in. Unfortunately as a college student during exam season it's been difficult for me to find time, and I've had to settle for ten ladder games. Definitely owe the readers an apology- will of course expand the quality of my testing when time allows.
Thank you for reading!
Convert regular HS cards into HS-BG cards
More stuff!
Notes:
The Best Deck Ever. Period.
Testing.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
The concept for this card was pretty easy to pin down, but I spent twenty minutes fiddling with numbers before I realised I suck at balancing, so I just made it a vanilla 5/5 split among two bodies, though I'm sure it could be improved.
The strategy is obviously to use Seath, or other taunts to protect the Crystal. An immune minion with buffs could get out of hand pretty easily, so the Crystal gives 'Can't be targeted by spells or Hero Powers' as a double edged sword.
The card in it's current state is basically Super Simian Sphere, but with Taunt and the ability to kill it.
Next, a Druid mech that appreciates nature!
What hero portraits do you use?
I even have a separate cardback for my heroes -_-
Druid: Lunara - Legend cardback
Hunter: Alleria - Black Temple cardback
Mage: Medivh - Heroes of the Storm cardback
Paladin: Liadrin - Rainbow cardback
Priest: Tyrande - iOS cardback
Rogue: Valeera (non-golden)- staying at 499 ranked wins xd - Hakkar cardback
Shaman: Morgle - Thunder King cardback
Warrior: Garrosh (golden, non 1k) - Pandaria cardback
Warlock: Gul'dan (1k version) - Legion Schemes cardback
Meta Breaker - Still Swinging in a 3-Class Meta
Interestimg but only one game vs each of the big tier decks. Im hoping for more testing. I have all the cards including the alternatives provided here so i might give it a spin
Meta Breaker - Still Swinging in a 3-Class Meta
Man I cannot wait until zuljin rotates out of standard, every time I see a hunter deck with him in it I dont see a hunter deck with zuljin in it I see a zuljin deck with other cards because they're all the same package. And it's not just hunter I hate "auto include package" for any class druid in KFT where to just swap out the win condition like a lightbulb is just as shitty, it's the shudderwock mentality where you just play "these cards" and then play this other card and you'll win its lazy deckbuilding
Meta Breaker - Still Swinging in a 3-Class Meta
It's always nice to provide insights and inspirations like this. Nice work, mate!
Hearthstone Battlegrounds
I disagree slightly. Due to RNG in re-rolls, going all in on a specific tribe is risky. When it works (which it usually does for at least 1/8 players), it is hard to beat, which is why you usually see one of the strategies you mentioned in the finals of the round. But more often, you can't roll the pieces you need and then it fails hard. The best strategy for always having a decent (top-four) finish is to mix tribes and strategically use buffs and selling minions to create a solid board. That strategy is pretty fun, because its always a little different and requires many tough choices.
I have noticed one disturbing trend though---which is that my finishing position, no matter what strategy I use, is usually wholly dependent on how many Nightmare Amalgams I'm offered in the game. If I get offered 1 or none, I'm almost always finishing at the bottom. If I get offered 4-5, I almost always finish at the top. I've started tracking (will post results after 50 runs or so) but so far after tracking for 10 runs its worked out exactly as I thought: More amalgams always equals better finish.
If that ends up true, it reduces the mode to rolling for 1 card, which is pretty terrible design.
Meta Breaker - Still Swinging in a 3-Class Meta
Love this article, keep going :)
Mythgard - Patch Incoming
This is a Discord screenshot of a message from the Rhino CEO that was posted on Reddit by u/weipenghuang:
Meme of the Week: Hearthstone Battlegrounds!
@Zelgadis (as I can't reply due to browser issues): Demons can work, but require a very specific setup. You need to hard roll early game to find 3 Soul Weavers plus some demons (which usually pop up incidentally). An upgraded Soul Weaver usually gives you enough power through trickled buffs to see you through the early midgame.
You then stop off at level 2 briefly to pick up at least one Amalgam (preferably two), preferably NOT getting a third (Amalgam's major strength in a demon comp is being able to use Toxfin and Annoy-O-Module on it, and being able to do that twice is worth a lot more than the benefit you get from upgrading; you don't want to stay at level 2 for long enough to get 4, particularly since Amalgams are in high demand).
Optionally stop off at level 3 to get multiple copies of Soul Juggler. Optional because demon players often don't really know what they're doing and are in a relative minority anyway, so they'll usually pop up later anyway.
You then rush for level 5 and hard roll for Mal'ganis (to avoid self-damage due to Soul Weaver, which can stack up) and Battlemasters. Ideally, grab a Defender of Argus to give your Battlemaster(s) taunt, which makes them unassailable outside of Poisonous.
Actually winning with Demons is rare since even if done right, Mechs will usually outscale them. But you can pretty reliably make top 4 with them if the early game doesn't screw you on Soul Weavers.
Wild needs CPR. Please discuss and spread the word
Completely agreed on that
There is a huge difference between powerful and broken. Usually the problems arrive when there is a broken COMBO deck that disrupts the rock/paper/scissors rule. Once in a while they appear to annoy us, poor wild players. Being beaten up by a combo deck at turn 5-7 in a regular basis is not cool.
The most recent example is this snip snap warlock. Mechwarper is the main issue, but let's remember that the card that made this deck viable was Plague of Flames (1 mana, wipe the board... totally balanced). Btw, nowadays I've been only playing shaman decks, since devolve solves all my mech related problems (but I have a hard time against secret mages).
I enjoy playing wild because of the multiple synergies between old and new cards, but facing broken decks over and over just cuts the fun out of the game. If I was willing to play a no brainier draw-and-win game, I would play Yu-Gi-Oh, not HS!!
Another thing, that OP stated, but I don't agree, is that wild is low represented. I usually queue in a few seconds, even at higher ranks. Last year, when wild was all about Odd Pally and Big Priest, it was forever to enter a single match, no matter what rank you were.
Wild needs CPR. Please discuss and spread the word
So I agree with everything you've said except for your last sentence.
I think this comes from my perception of Wild should be is different from yours. You expect it to be very powerful, I expect it to be broken. With access to every card it is inevitable that Wild gets out of hand, and that's okay. What's not okay is that Team 5 selectively nerfs some cards/decks but not others. Aviana, Dreadsteed, and Naga Sea Witch are great examples of this since Team 5 was swift to "re-balance" these cards while Barnes was still a large community complaint. So my question is "Why do some cards see immediate action but others took years before Team 5 would step in?".
I think the solution to this problem (I'm about to sound like a broken record) is to introduce a format in between Standard and Wild. Something that allows cards from every set to be played but bans cards that cause broken combos, SN1P-SN4P, un-nerfed Shadowboxer, and un-nerfed Naga Sea Witch.
One obvious argument to that idea is the potential to splitting the player base, but having a split player base is better than having no player base.
Standard Meta Report #11 - November 3, 2019 - November 10, 2019
It should arrive today or at worst tomorrow, but who knows
Standard Meta Report #11 - November 3, 2019 - November 10, 2019
Another 29 days of healthy meta game my friend
Standard Meta Report #11 - November 3, 2019 - November 10, 2019
Love these articles and not even playing standard at the moment. Good job :)