I cannot stand this fucking shaman meta any longer, every other game (usually several games in a row) is quest evolve shaman. It's sickening to play this game now. Not only is it boring to play against but makes me realise how many boring players there are, queuing the top tier deck over and over.
I'll see what the expansion brings but I'm done for now. Hate this game right now.
Tho i have a note about formating. You should probably use headers (h3 or h4) to separate the expansions. In the sea of images, the xpac banners are kinda lost. Id say use both banners+headers or just headers imho.
Also, horizontal rules (lines). Ideally before each header. They help with readability, especially on mobile ;-)
Also also, our implementation of tables is pretty bad so far, absolutely horrible readability on mobile for now, try to avoid them if possible. We do have lot of ppl who access the site via mobile only, so thats why im saying this, trying to get you views :))
The situation, this "unplayability", is caused by poor design choices. On MtG even the more extended formats still have some balance (more or less).
This.
If they stopped designing broken cards (Plague of Flames, Crystology, [Hearthstone Card (arcane mysteries) Not Found]) upon old flawed cards (Mechwarper), upon stupid cards (Arcane Flakmage), or at least if they regularly fixed these flaws, Wild would be much more pleasant and enjoyable on the long run, while still including some OP decks (which is inevitable).
If Wild turns into an increasingly rotten dumpster, i will simply stop playing, as i have no interest in Standard.
Wild is (could be) cool because it has all the cards: if the vast majority of cards are practically excluded by the brokenness of few, then it's just a broken version of Standard, restricted by brokenness instead of rotations...
Blizzard is in a bit of a bind this time though. They can't really nerf Evolve. It's a Wild card that's only back temporarily. (I'm not sure if it's really a problem in Wild?)
So what can they do? I suppose they could remove Evolve and replace it, temporarily, with something else from Wild. I doubt that's going to happen.
All things considered, I wouldn't put it past them to wait until early December and just let November be Shamanstone. I recall when DK Rexxar was everywhere and the most infuriating card to play against. Even after they nerfed the Lesser Emerald Spellstone, there was still a long stretch of time where Hunter was very oppressive. And then the April rotation came. Similarly, I expect Blizzard to do nothing and let the December new expansion / return of the cards to Wild solve the problem by itself.
They could just make evolve 2 mana while it's in standard. I don't know but I hope they fix it soon
Quest shaman is one of my favorite decks of all time but after the initial hype of the new patch died down I don't even feel like playing. shit is degenerate. The shaman mirror used to have a lot of decisions (with a lot of variance) but you could hedge advantages. Now it's literally just "who got the good cards".
I just want to ask this: when facing shamans, what was your strategy? Go face or fight for the board?
This is just out of curiosity, since I stopped playing standard when this event came out - was facing too many resurrect priests and I'm so glad they are almost nonexistent in wild nowadays...
Thanks!
Just a premise before answering: considering that Shamans have access to double Battlecry Mind Control Tech you can't really expect to keep the board for too long, especially if they jam a random an 8 drop out of nowhere on turn 4. Sometimes I bait an MCT if I have 3 small minions and a medium sized one (e.g. Blink Fox, Swashburglar, Faceless Lackey and the 2 drop if not good), but yeah, no more than three guys is a self-given rule in this match up.
Once I clarified this, you are a Tempo deck, so you can't afford losing too much time (and resources) over clearing the opponent's minions: in the end, if their life hits zero it doesn't matter what the board looks like, right?
So, the gameplay I chose consists in taking the control of the board for the first 4/5 turns (you shouldn't have many problems: Rogue has insane tools like Vendetta, Underbelly Fence, Backstab and Sap); once you've delayed his quest completion (EVIL Totems are a must kill) and started chipping his life total, the only things you care about are face and minions you'd regret to leave up. To be specific, I'm talking about Bog Slosher and Weaponized Wasp shenanigans: Lifedrinker is worth to be killed since a bounce would mean 6 (and 3 more from Shudderwock) more damage to deal in order to win. The reason is the same for Wasp: if you have something on the board (of course not a 10/10 Edwin VanCleef) you better trade it into those 1/1s in order to avoid a 3 mana deal 6 to either your face or your board.
For the rest, it's Tempo Rogue: set up a good Waggle Pick, doink your opponent in the head and use your Shadowsteps wisely;Spirit of the Shark is good for both value (EVIL Miscreant, Lackeys in general, Edwin VanCleef and to be honest any other kind of battlecry) and burst (Lifedrinker, especially if you can Shadowstep it and play it again: the fact that it has stealth is a pretty big deal, since in this meta it only dies to Wardruid Loti + Starfall).
However, if they are Murloc, just spread out on the board and make them run out of resources while chipping damage.
I just want to ask this: when facing shamans, what was your strategy? Go face or fight for the board?
This is just out of curiosity, since I stopped playing standard when this event came out - was facing too many resurrect priests and I'm so glad they are almost nonexistent in wild nowadays...
In MTG, there is a format (I don't remember what it is called) where you are able to play every card ever printed in Magic. Nothing is banned, but there are some restricted cards (you can only have 1 copy in oppose to 4). Usually, games are decided during the mulligan. There are so many combos that can win you the game on turn 1-3, and there are a ton of broken synergies and infinite combos. This is the result of 26 years worth of cards, and the player gets to chose the 36 best cards ever printed, add 24 lands, and still lose because his turn 5 infinite combo was too slow.
This is just where all eternal formats are bound to end up sooner or later and there really isn't anything you can do about it. I think Hearthstone does have some time to go before it ends up like this, but it is getting there.
Hello everyone, I just hit Legend a few hours ago and, after seeing my tracker stats, I wanted to share some thoughts with you (may even upload on Reddit if I feel like, but probably not).
Some informations: I started playing Tempo Rogue (with Eviscerate instead of Heistbaron Togwaggle since I didn't want to craft it) at rank 3 1 star on EU ladder. This is the complete list if someone is interested (it's the same BoarControl brought to rank 5 Legend a few hours ago).
Now, here are the stats of my climb (I'd directly upload a picture if able to do so, but for some reason linking it from Imgur doesn't work anymore...): unfortunately it took me a couple more games than I needed since at some point my Wi-Fi decided it was siesta time and I lost two games out of disconnection but hey, 69% winrate is still pretty nice.
As you can see, out of 39 games 20 were against Shamans: to be more precise, only one of them was Murloc; the other 19 were either Quest (16) or straight Evolve (3).
Mage, Paladin, Warrior (they didn't save the best for last this time I guess) and Warlock completely unexistent; a sprinkle of Quest Druids, Highlander Hunters, Deathrattle Priests (one was Combo to be fair) and Rogues (3 were Tempo like me, 1 was Deathrattle). And that's it.
I know that 40 games are not a big sample, but they are enough to give an idea of what the environment is in the high ranks. Another fact: out of the 6 last games that I played, 5 were Shamans (the other one was Rogue): at some point I really wanted to pluck my eyes out.
What I'm trying to do is adding evidences to the already existent complaints around Shaman. The main issue is not its OPness (in fact I went 13-7 against Thrall/Morgl/Rastakhan/the fat guy), but rather its highroll potential and its capability of generating resources out of a bunch of mana.
Most of the games I lost were because I got overwhelmed by an absurd amount of stats in the early game, which maybe just Warrior (Brawl) and Priest (Mass Hysteria) can handle properly, and a small part because of resource exhaustion, but the fact is that, at the moment, there isn't a viable strategy against it except going face really fast and hard: Midrange gets totally annihilated and Control barely makes it; the most favorable matchups (Vicious Syndicate) are somewhat unreliable (I explain what I want to say: as you can read in the meta report I linked, OTK Paladin constantly beats Shaman, but the problem is that it struggles against pretty much anything else, therefore no Paladins on ladder) and, given the aforementioned highroll potential, it's able to give you wins even if you're not a top tier player (yes: some of the guys I played against were so bad that I felt bad for them).
In the end, (Quest) Shamans are really popular and, the most important thing, it feels really bad to play against them over and over again.
Let's rattle off what are in my opinion some of the crucial combos of the decks that generate this situation:
the Evolve Mechanic: Desert Hare + Evolve can be neck breaking for most of the decks (even more if the Quest is completed); to be honest though, this combo isn't the one that worries me the most, because that title goes to
[Hearthstone Card (Mogu Flashshaper) Not Found] + Mutate: the 8 mana minions pool is really strong, with just a few bad pulls (Hir'eek, the Bat is the worst outcome, whereas the second worst is Heroic Innkeeper or Captain Hooktusk, which is still pretty good on turn 4/5), and it will stay in Standard for more than another year. You can try to fight for the control of the board in order to prevent such insane turns, but
So, you need to fight for the board in order to kill 8 drops and many 4 drops in the early game without having more than 3 minions in play, otherwise you'd dramatically increase your opponent's board while losing yours. How does that even make any sense?
I don't want to start a nerfing/babyrage thread (hey, I got to Legend, fuck them Shamans), but rather having a discussion about it.
Given that Shaman is a problem for the current meta and maybe the future ones (alongside with Quest Druid in my honest opinion), what do you think? What is the card that triggers you/you don't like to play against the most? Have you found any reliable counters (except joining the dark side of course)? If yes, which?
Feel free to express your opinion and to blow off some steam if you really need to ;)
I'm currently taking a hiatus from ladder- normally I finish in or around legend, but when the meta is as unpleasant (for me at least) as it is now ill take a break rather than torture myself and forever ruin the game for myself. Like Starscream mentioned, Hunterstone was pretty brutal and I came back after a couple of months with my passion for the game renewed for a bit. I'm sure I'll return, fool that I am, when the next expansion hits.
Blizzard is in a bit of a bind this time though. They can't really nerf Evolve. It's a Wild card that's only back temporarily. (I'm not sure if it's really a problem in Wild?)
So what can they do? I suppose they could remove Evolve and replace it, temporarily, with something else from Wild. I doubt that's going to happen.
All things considered, I wouldn't put it past them to wait until early December and just let November be Shamanstone. I recall when DK Rexxar was everywhere and the most infuriating card to play against. Even after they nerfed the Lesser Emerald Spellstone, there was still a long stretch of time where Hunter was very oppressive. And then the April rotation came. Similarly, I expect Blizzard to do nothing and let the December new expansion / return of the cards to Wild solve the problem by itself.
As unfortunate as it is, and as much as I hate to say it myself, growing sick of Wild is only normal given the destination of this game mode. Right of the bat, when it was first introduced, it became the HearthStone equivalent of a dumpster. As it piles up - expansion after expansion ; broken synergies after wackier combos - it becomes harder to make any sensible management of said waste ... I'm afraid that unless they do something about it, on the long run, we are running straight to a point of unplayability...
Personally, i'm progressively growing sick of Wild.
Secret Mage, Snipsnaplock and Mech Pally are sheer cancer, as they are essentially all Burn decks, and top tier.
No healthy meta has so many Burn decks on the very top of the tiers.
Even worse for Warlock, which is further internally cancerized: playing any Warlock that is not Snipsnap is straight out stupid or masochistic (at least Mage has Reno and Pally has Odd).
I guess this is the beginning of the end for RavenSunHS...
I appreciate the showcase, thank you for that ; I may get ahead with some of those achievements ^^ If anyone is looking for a quick way to ladder up before season is over, you won't be disappointed with that list.
this is an old idea tbh. blizzard is against it cause they believe HS sucess relies on casuals which means they need to play something that is understandable which means a stable meta that they can quickly figure out what to play BUT mainly they dont like splitting the player base cause what casuals want are quick games as in you dont spend more than 30secs searching for one match.
usually it takes 10 seconds in standard and a bit more in wild so they dont want ppl to take much time searching for a match or they start getting bored.
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
I'm done.
I cannot stand this fucking shaman meta any longer, every other game (usually several games in a row) is quest evolve shaman. It's sickening to play this game now. Not only is it boring to play against but makes me realise how many boring players there are, queuing the top tier deck over and over.
I'll see what the expansion brings but I'm done for now. Hate this game right now.
My opinion of Jepetto Joybuzz- way more fun than what I thought!
Definitely a fun one when it works.
Custom Class - The Astromancer (Updated 2/2 for Descent of Dragons and Galakrond's Awakening)
Looking good! Keep it up!
Tho i have a note about formating. You should probably use headers (h3 or h4) to separate the expansions. In the sea of images, the xpac banners are kinda lost. Id say use both banners+headers or just headers imho.
Also, horizontal rules (lines). Ideally before each header. They help with readability, especially on mobile ;-)
Also also, our implementation of tables is pretty bad so far, absolutely horrible readability on mobile for now, try to avoid them if possible. We do have lot of ppl who access the site via mobile only, so thats why im saying this, trying to get you views :))
Headcrack
Previous art was way better
Tomb Invader
I cant get this cardback due to infinite tavern ToT bug T_T
Custom Class - The Astromancer (Updated 2/2 for Descent of Dragons and Galakrond's Awakening)
Goblins vs Gnome, The Grand Tournament, Blackrock Mountain, One Night In Karazhan, Naxxramas and League of Explorers set are finished.
A Weekend of Wild Decks
This.
If they stopped designing broken cards (Plague of Flames, Crystology, [Hearthstone Card (arcane mysteries) Not Found]) upon old flawed cards (Mechwarper), upon stupid cards (Arcane Flakmage), or at least if they regularly fixed these flaws, Wild would be much more pleasant and enjoyable on the long run, while still including some OP decks (which is inevitable).
If Wild turns into an increasingly rotten dumpster, i will simply stop playing, as i have no interest in Standard.
Wild is (could be) cool because it has all the cards: if the vast majority of cards are practically excluded by the brokenness of few, then it's just a broken version of Standard, restricted by brokenness instead of rotations...
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: Amaringo#2209
Region: EU
Trade Only: Yes, you go first, but i can show my quest.
Canceled
Your standard ladder climb (October 2019)
They could just make evolve 2 mana while it's in standard. I don't know but I hope they fix it soon
Quest shaman is one of my favorite decks of all time but after the initial hype of the new patch died down I don't even feel like playing. shit is degenerate. The shaman mirror used to have a lot of decisions (with a lot of variance) but you could hedge advantages. Now it's literally just "who got the good cards".
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
Ah yes, I too enjoy getting punished for playing the game. How dare I play more than 3 minions, right
Meta Breaker - One-Shotting Some Shamans
This just seems like a sub-optimal version of the pre-existing Shirvallah Paladin.
My climb to Legend - Meta discussion
Thanks!
Just a premise before answering: considering that Shamans have access to double Battlecry Mind Control Tech you can't really expect to keep the board for too long, especially if they jam a random an 8 drop out of nowhere on turn 4. Sometimes I bait an MCT if I have 3 small minions and a medium sized one (e.g. Blink Fox, Swashburglar, Faceless Lackey and the 2 drop if not good), but yeah, no more than three guys is a self-given rule in this match up.
Once I clarified this, you are a Tempo deck, so you can't afford losing too much time (and resources) over clearing the opponent's minions: in the end, if their life hits zero it doesn't matter what the board looks like, right?
So, the gameplay I chose consists in taking the control of the board for the first 4/5 turns (you shouldn't have many problems: Rogue has insane tools like Vendetta, Underbelly Fence, Backstab and Sap); once you've delayed his quest completion (EVIL Totems are a must kill) and started chipping his life total, the only things you care about are face and minions you'd regret to leave up. To be specific, I'm talking about Bog Slosher and Weaponized Wasp shenanigans: Lifedrinker is worth to be killed since a bounce would mean 6 (and 3 more from Shudderwock) more damage to deal in order to win. The reason is the same for Wasp: if you have something on the board (of course not a 10/10 Edwin VanCleef) you better trade it into those 1/1s in order to avoid a 3 mana deal 6 to either your face or your board.
For the rest, it's Tempo Rogue: set up a good Waggle Pick, doink your opponent in the head and use your Shadowsteps wisely;Spirit of the Shark is good for both value (EVIL Miscreant, Lackeys in general, Edwin VanCleef and to be honest any other kind of battlecry) and burst (Lifedrinker, especially if you can Shadowstep it and play it again: the fact that it has stealth is a pretty big deal, since in this meta it only dies to Wardruid Loti + Starfall).
However, if they are Murloc, just spread out on the board and make them run out of resources while chipping damage.
My climb to Legend - Meta discussion
Hey man!
Congrats on your legend!
I just want to ask this: when facing shamans, what was your strategy? Go face or fight for the board?
This is just out of curiosity, since I stopped playing standard when this event came out - was facing too many resurrect priests and I'm so glad they are almost nonexistent in wild nowadays...
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
10 mana. My opponent has full board. I play Zephrys the Great and it gives me Tirion Fordring - Big Game Hunter - Frost Nova
WTF!? HEARTHSTONE U DRUNK. GIVE ME FUCKING Twisting Nether or atleast Mass Dispel
A Weekend of Wild Decks
In MTG, there is a format (I don't remember what it is called) where you are able to play every card ever printed in Magic. Nothing is banned, but there are some restricted cards (you can only have 1 copy in oppose to 4). Usually, games are decided during the mulligan. There are so many combos that can win you the game on turn 1-3, and there are a ton of broken synergies and infinite combos. This is the result of 26 years worth of cards, and the player gets to chose the 36 best cards ever printed, add 24 lands, and still lose because his turn 5 infinite combo was too slow.
This is just where all eternal formats are bound to end up sooner or later and there really isn't anything you can do about it. I think Hearthstone does have some time to go before it ends up like this, but it is getting there.
My climb to Legend - Meta discussion
Hello everyone, I just hit Legend a few hours ago and, after seeing my tracker stats, I wanted to share some thoughts with you (may even upload on Reddit if I feel like, but probably not).
Some informations: I started playing Tempo Rogue (with Eviscerate instead of Heistbaron Togwaggle since I didn't want to craft it) at rank 3 1 star on EU ladder. This is the complete list if someone is interested (it's the same BoarControl brought to rank 5 Legend a few hours ago).
Wild · Tempo Rogue · by Avalon · 6 years, 10 months ago
Now, here are the stats of my climb (I'd directly upload a picture if able to do so, but for some reason linking it from Imgur doesn't work anymore...): unfortunately it took me a couple more games than I needed since at some point my Wi-Fi decided it was siesta time and I lost two games out of disconnection but hey, 69% winrate is still pretty nice.
As you can see, out of 39 games 20 were against Shamans: to be more precise, only one of them was Murloc; the other 19 were either Quest (16) or straight Evolve (3).
Mage, Paladin, Warrior (they didn't save the best for last this time I guess) and Warlock completely unexistent; a sprinkle of Quest Druids, Highlander Hunters, Deathrattle Priests (one was Combo to be fair) and Rogues (3 were Tempo like me, 1 was Deathrattle). And that's it.
I know that 40 games are not a big sample, but they are enough to give an idea of what the environment is in the high ranks. Another fact: out of the 6 last games that I played, 5 were Shamans (the other one was Rogue): at some point I really wanted to pluck my eyes out.
What I'm trying to do is adding evidences to the already existent complaints around Shaman. The main issue is not its OPness (in fact I went 13-7 against Thrall/Morgl/Rastakhan/the fat guy), but rather its highroll potential and its capability of generating resources out of a bunch of mana.
Most of the games I lost were because I got overwhelmed by an absurd amount of stats in the early game, which maybe just Warrior (Brawl) and Priest (Mass Hysteria) can handle properly, and a small part because of resource exhaustion, but the fact is that, at the moment, there isn't a viable strategy against it except going face really fast and hard: Midrange gets totally annihilated and Control barely makes it; the most favorable matchups (Vicious Syndicate) are somewhat unreliable (I explain what I want to say: as you can read in the meta report I linked, OTK Paladin constantly beats Shaman, but the problem is that it struggles against pretty much anything else, therefore no Paladins on ladder) and, given the aforementioned highroll potential, it's able to give you wins even if you're not a top tier player (yes: some of the guys I played against were so bad that I felt bad for them).
In the end, (Quest) Shamans are really popular and, the most important thing, it feels really bad to play against them over and over again.
Let's rattle off what are in my opinion some of the crucial combos of the decks that generate this situation:
So, you need to fight for the board in order to kill 8 drops and many 4 drops in the early game without having more than 3 minions in play, otherwise you'd dramatically increase your opponent's board while losing yours. How does that even make any sense?
I don't want to start a nerfing/babyrage thread (hey, I got to Legend, fuck them Shamans), but rather having a discussion about it.
Given that Shaman is a problem for the current meta and maybe the future ones (alongside with Quest Druid in my honest opinion), what do you think? What is the card that triggers you/you don't like to play against the most? Have you found any reliable counters (except joining the dark side of course)? If yes, which?
Feel free to express your opinion and to blow off some steam if you really need to ;)
Thanks for reading
Your standard ladder climb (October 2019)
I'm currently taking a hiatus from ladder- normally I finish in or around legend, but when the meta is as unpleasant (for me at least) as it is now ill take a break rather than torture myself and forever ruin the game for myself. Like Starscream mentioned, Hunterstone was pretty brutal and I came back after a couple of months with my passion for the game renewed for a bit. I'm sure I'll return, fool that I am, when the next expansion hits.
A Weekend of Wild Decks
The situation, this "unplayability", is caused by poor design choices. On MtG even the more extended formats still have some balance (more or less).
Your standard ladder climb (October 2019)
Blizzard is in a bit of a bind this time though. They can't really nerf Evolve. It's a Wild card that's only back temporarily. (I'm not sure if it's really a problem in Wild?)
So what can they do? I suppose they could remove Evolve and replace it, temporarily, with something else from Wild. I doubt that's going to happen.
All things considered, I wouldn't put it past them to wait until early December and just let November be Shamanstone. I recall when DK Rexxar was everywhere and the most infuriating card to play against. Even after they nerfed the Lesser Emerald Spellstone, there was still a long stretch of time where Hunter was very oppressive. And then the April rotation came. Similarly, I expect Blizzard to do nothing and let the December new expansion / return of the cards to Wild solve the problem by itself.
!!!NEW PATCH!!! (0.16.3)
I giggled ^^
A Weekend of Wild Decks
As unfortunate as it is, and as much as I hate to say it myself, growing sick of Wild is only normal given the destination of this game mode. Right of the bat, when it was first introduced, it became the HearthStone equivalent of a dumpster. As it piles up - expansion after expansion ; broken synergies after wackier combos - it becomes harder to make any sensible management of said waste ... I'm afraid that unless they do something about it, on the long run, we are running straight to a point of unplayability...
A Weekend of Wild Decks
Personally, i'm progressively growing sick of Wild.
Secret Mage, Snipsnaplock and Mech Pally are sheer cancer, as they are essentially all Burn decks, and top tier.
No healthy meta has so many Burn decks on the very top of the tiers.
Even worse for Warlock, which is further internally cancerized: playing any Warlock that is not Snipsnap is straight out stupid or masochistic (at least Mage has Reno and Pally has Odd).
I guess this is the beginning of the end for RavenSunHS...
A Weekend of Wild Decks
I appreciate the showcase, thank you for that ; I may get ahead with some of those achievements ^^
If anyone is looking for a quick way to ladder up before season is over, you won't be disappointed with that list.
Gamemode Idea: Rotating Sets
this is an old idea tbh. blizzard is against it cause they believe HS sucess relies on casuals which means they need to play something that is understandable which means a stable meta that they can quickly figure out what to play BUT mainly they dont like splitting the player base cause what casuals want are quick games as in you dont spend more than 30secs searching for one match.
usually it takes 10 seconds in standard and a bit more in wild so they dont want ppl to take much time searching for a match or they start getting bored.
Twitch Drops Return with 5 Saviors of Uldum Packs for the BlizzCon Hearthstone Global Finals
Is it possible to link your primary account first and link the alternate account after receiving the packs from the first one?
Does anyone know?