Not having a clear cut identity is what getting priest into the problem in wild.
We know that Blizzard's first priority is standard & wild will always be a red headed stepchild to them. So in the context of card design they will always prioritise cards that will work outright in the standard format, while its utility in wild is always an after thought.
So with each expansion release we are seeing Priest constantly getting its identity changed. For a while it was resurrect which was not well supported & then came the buff one. But with the recent talk with them shifting divine spirit to HOF & Priest once again getting its identity removed, buff priest will not be well supported in the future either. The benefit of having clear identity is that some other classes are seeing their new cards getting trickled down to their Wild decks. Like secret Mage, battlecry shaman or thief rogue, taunt warrior, kun aviana otk druid, mech pally etc.
Many of the previous priest archetype that didn't work in the past got no support (like shadowform), So now majority of them have made the entire collection to be filled with dead cards that won't get any support in the future. Many popular archetype didn't receive any support in future expansion either like Dragon priest, resurrect priest, death rattle priest etc. So once a strong deck is now losing its relevancy while weak deck being dead for eternity. While other classes are getting support from their standard set, Priest is getting nothing. Also they completely killed big priest quite successfully.
Priest was quite bad against aggro & now days with this excessive aggressive environment in wild it is getting shafted again. some of the deck like mech pally or secret mage have gotten to hard to counter. Attrition & control two of the strongest aspect of Priest gameplay are getting fizzled out as well.
In the current situation I think Pirest has lost its relevancy in wild & won't be viable anytime soon.
Un-nerfing Raza will be a positive step ( not much but still a positive) but I don't think Blizzard will do that.
I mean, I get that they're not gonna immediately shoot it out of the sky, but why are we back to "the soonest it'D be removed at the set rotation" when we just had Mind Blast Hall of Famed mid-year?
That being said, the way they framed it, it sounds like there might be some sort of a Priest rework (regarding classic set). Funnily enough, Priest is actually the only class that has a clearly defined win condition built into their base set while every other class just has a variety of base mechanics that depend on new support. I guess that might be the problem after all
Yeah, she said that to me one chapter one. I strongly dislike the whole weakening mechanic TBH. I get why they did it, so there'd be an easy out for people who don't enjoy the struggle, but it really takes the challenge out of it. There should be a way to turn it off, especially on heroic.
I get the feeling that his comment is in reference to a Priest overhaul. Where they would remove DS and other Basic/Classic cards to kind of re-invent the class. Basing this mostly off the fact that he states "We have some plans to remove DS, but it comes with some other sweeping changes." And follows it if they go that route it would be "a big maybe". So their plans to remove DS have to be something much much bigger than just nerf or HoF for the one card. I would love to see them move towards a full on balance between Holy and Shadow Priest cards, seeing as Anduin's hero portrait actually has light and shadow in it.
I've been trying to hit high ranks in the current meta on my free-to-play account and you're right. There's just little to no feasible, much less fun, options for the F2P player in this meta.
Of all the cards discussed only Injured Tol'vir is a new one: the others are all from the Classic and Basic sets.
Maybe if they could print a decent set for Priest instead of giving it crap, the Class won't be needing to use one of the oldest strategy in the whole game for being successfull.
Easily the least enjoyable chapter so far IMO. The deathrattle minions that come from the twist often enough have been severely impacting the run, like continuously spawning lucentbarks that slowly clogged up my board or octosaris to burn half my deck. The plaguelord in particular is very annoying and RNG-based. If he gets any strong deathrattle onto the board early, there usually isn't much of a chance to turn the game around. I got extremly lucky in my third run only and the last fight took me over an hour to finish, even though he started with less than 200HP at that point.
Yeah, she said that to me one chapter one. I strongly dislike the whole weakening mechanic TBH. I get why they did it, so there'd be an easy out for people who don't enjoy the struggle, but it really takes the challenge out of it. There should be a way to turn it off, especially on heroic.
I think 0 mana cards have been the most troublesome cards in Hearthstone's history. My opinion is that the current version of Combo Priest would be brought to a quick halt if Circle of Healing had it's mana cost changed to something like 2. Northshire Cleric would be much more difficult to get tons of draw off. Without the crazy draw amount Divine Spirit + Inner Fire loses almost all of its consistency. Wild Pyromancer would be too expensive to create those draws. The injured duo can't be instantly buffed anymore. It's a simple fix but covers a variety of problems while only hitting one card. The deck still plays very similarly and is still powerful. But this way I'm not playing against a Priest with a board of 2 4/7s a 1/3 draw-machine, a full hand, and only 8 cards left in deck on turn 5.
Divine Spirit+Inner Fire need to be redone. That Combo is one of the most uninteractive card combinations the game has. It all comes down to the question "can I clear the board or not?"
The stealing cards of priest are total garbage and they don't fit the theme. Stealing should be a rogue thing in my opinion.
Northshire Cleric needs the same treatment as Mana Wyrm.
Circle of healings cost could be changed to 1 mana, but right now it doesn't feel oppressive.
One of the biggest problems priest has with his core set is a valid board clear. I think Mass Hysteria could be moved to the core set with Holy Nova being nothing but a mere laughing stock.
As a priest player I have already thought about the class identity and as a former WoW PvP freak I would say a good theme could be centered around Penance, or cards that mess with your opponents deck. Kind of a combo killer class. In arena priests burned mana, silenced enemies, blocked healing. So anti lifesteal effects could be invented. Another part could be dot spells. A little bit like warlocks Curse card for example, but maybe a little bit more minion centric, which refunds/increases mana at the start of your next turn.
There are enough ways to improve the class. Blizzards just needs to start.
I believe they should cycle out or rotate the basic sets for classes every year or two, so that we don't get stuck with stuff like Divine Spirit + Inner Fire for the rest of time. It would help to rotate out the bad cards in basic as well, such as Charge, or Light's Justice.
I think something should certainly be done about Northshire Cleric, since all the other OP 1-drops have already been nerfed. The question is whether it will be nerfed to cost 2 mana or sent to the Hall of Fame. I wouldn't mind it at 2 mana, since it then becomes a card for which careful planning is needed rather than a minion that's relatively safe to play on turn 1.
Divine Spirit is a card they must address if they don't want the combo with Inner Fire to return again and again. Doubling the health can get out of control real fast, especially since you can collect two of these spells and quadruple the health of a minion in a single turn. Increasing its cost to 3 mana won't make much of a difference, since it is already only played when it has a huge swing effect, such as buffing High Priest Amet or dealing lethal damage. I think it should cost 4 or 5 before it actually makes a difference, since it then becomes hard to play a series of health boosts + Inner Fire in the same turn. Another way to nerf it would be to replace the doubling effect by a constant health boost, for example +5 health. That way it's much harder to set up lethal with a medium-health minion. Sending it to the Hall of Fame would not be my preference, since that would not solve the problem for Wild players. Also, giving a minion more health so healing it becomes more viable fits the identity of Priest, in my opinion.
I think Inner Fire wouldn't be so much of an issue without Divine Spirit. Note that there are cards that flip attack and health such as Topsy Turvy and Crazed Alchemist (the latter even being in Classic), which can take over the role of Inner Fire as a finisher (some decks even prefer Topsy Turvy over Inner Fire since it's easier to fit in due to its lower cost).
Circle of Healing at 0 mana is only good if you have the card draw to support it. If Cleric gets nerfed, that indirectly increases the cost of Circle.
About the kind of card I'd like to see: in my opinion Penance is a good Priest card: it's versatile enough to not be stuck in your hand too long, it's good for its mana cost, it has heal synergy and it cannot be used for dealing face damage with Velen and/or Malygos.
Ok, having played a few times now I can see how the saved health mechanic will allow more people to finish the adventure (especially on heroic) there just seems to be some very dull rounds when I have to chip off 0-100 health. Generally there’s no difficulty on the last boss.
It was interesting to try but having to do an entire run to knock off 30 health is very unrewarding.
So far I've had atrociously bad luck playing Scepter of Summoning decks in Uldum. Small sample size, but I rarely get big minion buckets so it's happened more than once that I died on boss 3 or 4 without a single greater than 5 cost in my deck. Not sure if Reno is uniquely unfavoured at getting big minions, which would make sense for rogue if not for mage, or if this also applies to the rest of the league.
Yeah, obviously it could potentially work in a big minions deck. However, my question was if anyone has actually used this treasure, and not regretted it. I'm guessing, like me, people are avoiding it. I mean, it even costs more than other options.
Priest is currently trash in wild & it would be a pertinent problem for the class in near future.
Not having a clear cut identity is what getting priest into the problem in wild.
We know that Blizzard's first priority is standard & wild will always be a red headed stepchild to them. So in the context of card design they will always prioritise cards that will work outright in the standard format, while its utility in wild is always an after thought.
So with each expansion release we are seeing Priest constantly getting its identity changed. For a while it was resurrect which was not well supported & then came the buff one. But with the recent talk with them shifting divine spirit to HOF & Priest once again getting its identity removed, buff priest will not be well supported in the future either. The benefit of having clear identity is that some other classes are seeing their new cards getting trickled down to their Wild decks. Like secret Mage, battlecry shaman or thief rogue, taunt warrior, kun aviana otk druid, mech pally etc.
Many of the previous priest archetype that didn't work in the past got no support (like shadowform), So now majority of them have made the entire collection to be filled with dead cards that won't get any support in the future. Many popular archetype didn't receive any support in future expansion either like Dragon priest, resurrect priest, death rattle priest etc. So once a strong deck is now losing its relevancy while weak deck being dead for eternity. While other classes are getting support from their standard set, Priest is getting nothing. Also they completely killed big priest quite successfully.
Priest was quite bad against aggro & now days with this excessive aggressive environment in wild it is getting shafted again. some of the deck like mech pally or secret mage have gotten to hard to counter. Attrition & control two of the strongest aspect of Priest gameplay are getting fizzled out as well.
In the current situation I think Pirest has lost its relevancy in wild & won't be viable anytime soon.
Un-nerfing Raza will be a positive step ( not much but still a positive) but I don't think Blizzard will do that.
Iksar: "We have some plans to remove Divine Spirit"
I mean, I get that they're not gonna immediately shoot it out of the sky, but why are we back to "the soonest it'D be removed at the set rotation" when we just had Mind Blast Hall of Famed mid-year?
That being said, the way they framed it, it sounds like there might be some sort of a Priest rework (regarding classic set). Funnily enough, Priest is actually the only class that has a clearly defined win condition built into their base set while every other class just has a variety of base mechanics that depend on new support. I guess that might be the problem after all
Elise Needs more Faith in herself
Or at least a reset button
Iksar: "We have some plans to remove Divine Spirit"
I get the feeling that his comment is in reference to a Priest overhaul. Where they would remove DS and other Basic/Classic cards to kind of re-invent the class. Basing this mostly off the fact that he states "We have some plans to remove DS, but it comes with some other sweeping changes." And follows it if they go that route it would be "a big maybe". So their plans to remove DS have to be something much much bigger than just nerf or HoF for the one card. I would love to see them move towards a full on balance between Holy and Shadow Priest cards, seeing as Anduin's hero portrait actually has light and shadow in it.
Rock, Paper, Scissors: Highlanderadin, Big Swing Druid, and a Mech Draw Machine Warlock
I've been trying to hit high ranks in the current meta on my free-to-play account and you're right. There's just little to no feasible, much less fun, options for the F2P player in this meta.
Iksar: "We have some plans to remove Divine Spirit"
Maybe Blizzard should just balance the cards / combos instead of outright HOFing them.
Priest - Nerf or Overhaul?
Of all the cards discussed only Injured Tol'vir is a new one: the others are all from the Classic and Basic sets.
Maybe if they could print a decent set for Priest instead of giving it crap, the Class won't be needing to use one of the oldest strategy in the whole game for being successfull.
Iksar: "We have some plans to remove Divine Spirit"
I honestly think that neither divine spirit nor cleric are the problems.
The problem is Circle of Healing that makes early high health minions so sticky and enables the crazy card draw combos.
Chapter 3 of Tombs of Terror Unlocks Today!
Easily the least enjoyable chapter so far IMO. The deathrattle minions that come from the twist often enough have been severely impacting the run, like continuously spawning lucentbarks that slowly clogged up my board or octosaris to burn half my deck. The plaguelord in particular is very annoying and RNG-based. If he gets any strong deathrattle onto the board early, there usually isn't much of a chance to turn the game around. I got extremly lucky in my third run only and the last fight took me over an hour to finish, even though he started with less than 200HP at that point.
Chapter 3 of Tombs of Terror Unlocks Today!
I glad I bought them, I am having fun...frustrating fun!
Priest - Nerf or Overhaul?
Is this a 'Wild only' problem?
I feel like I only see them 1 out of every 6 games is a Priest in Casual and Standard, however, pretty much all the rest are either Paladin or Hunter.
Elise Needs more Faith in herself
Yeah, she said that to me one chapter one. I strongly dislike the whole weakening mechanic TBH. I get why they did it, so there'd be an easy out for people who don't enjoy the struggle, but it really takes the challenge out of it. There should be a way to turn it off, especially on heroic.
Priest - Nerf or Overhaul?
Whenever priest gets something mildly interesting, everyone absolutely loses their minds.
Been like that since day one.
Priest - Nerf or Overhaul?
I think 0 mana cards have been the most troublesome cards in Hearthstone's history. My opinion is that the current version of Combo Priest would be brought to a quick halt if Circle of Healing had it's mana cost changed to something like 2. Northshire Cleric would be much more difficult to get tons of draw off. Without the crazy draw amount Divine Spirit + Inner Fire loses almost all of its consistency. Wild Pyromancer would be too expensive to create those draws. The injured duo can't be instantly buffed anymore. It's a simple fix but covers a variety of problems while only hitting one card. The deck still plays very similarly and is still powerful. But this way I'm not playing against a Priest with a board of 2 4/7s a 1/3 draw-machine, a full hand, and only 8 cards left in deck on turn 5.
Elise Needs more Faith in herself
So - We start the Plague Lord on chapter 3 and she says something like "We cannot do this in one run, but at least we can weaken it".
Bullshit! One and done baby!
Priest - Nerf or Overhaul?
Divine Spirit+Inner Fire need to be redone. That Combo is one of the most uninteractive card combinations the game has. It all comes down to the question "can I clear the board or not?"
The stealing cards of priest are total garbage and they don't fit the theme. Stealing should be a rogue thing in my opinion.
Northshire Cleric needs the same treatment as Mana Wyrm.
Circle of healings cost could be changed to 1 mana, but right now it doesn't feel oppressive.
One of the biggest problems priest has with his core set is a valid board clear. I think Mass Hysteria could be moved to the core set with Holy Nova being nothing but a mere laughing stock.
As a priest player I have already thought about the class identity and as a former WoW PvP freak I would say a good theme could be centered around Penance, or cards that mess with your opponents deck. Kind of a combo killer class. In arena priests burned mana, silenced enemies, blocked healing. So anti lifesteal effects could be invented. Another part could be dot spells. A little bit like warlocks Curse card for example, but maybe a little bit more minion centric, which refunds/increases mana at the start of your next turn.
There are enough ways to improve the class. Blizzards just needs to start.
Priest - Nerf or Overhaul?
People need to leave us alone..
There's plenty of other terroristic decks out there for ANY class standard/wild.
Priest - Nerf or Overhaul?
I believe they should cycle out or rotate the basic sets for classes every year or two, so that we don't get stuck with stuff like Divine Spirit + Inner Fire for the rest of time. It would help to rotate out the bad cards in basic as well, such as Charge, or Light's Justice.
Priest - Nerf or Overhaul?
Players hate Anduin? Wow. ;)
I think something should certainly be done about Northshire Cleric, since all the other OP 1-drops have already been nerfed. The question is whether it will be nerfed to cost 2 mana or sent to the Hall of Fame. I wouldn't mind it at 2 mana, since it then becomes a card for which careful planning is needed rather than a minion that's relatively safe to play on turn 1.
Divine Spirit is a card they must address if they don't want the combo with Inner Fire to return again and again. Doubling the health can get out of control real fast, especially since you can collect two of these spells and quadruple the health of a minion in a single turn. Increasing its cost to 3 mana won't make much of a difference, since it is already only played when it has a huge swing effect, such as buffing High Priest Amet or dealing lethal damage. I think it should cost 4 or 5 before it actually makes a difference, since it then becomes hard to play a series of health boosts + Inner Fire in the same turn. Another way to nerf it would be to replace the doubling effect by a constant health boost, for example +5 health. That way it's much harder to set up lethal with a medium-health minion. Sending it to the Hall of Fame would not be my preference, since that would not solve the problem for Wild players. Also, giving a minion more health so healing it becomes more viable fits the identity of Priest, in my opinion.
I think Inner Fire wouldn't be so much of an issue without Divine Spirit. Note that there are cards that flip attack and health such as Topsy Turvy and Crazed Alchemist (the latter even being in Classic), which can take over the role of Inner Fire as a finisher (some decks even prefer Topsy Turvy over Inner Fire since it's easier to fit in due to its lower cost).
Circle of Healing at 0 mana is only good if you have the card draw to support it. If Cleric gets nerfed, that indirectly increases the cost of Circle.
About the kind of card I'd like to see: in my opinion Penance is a good Priest card: it's versatile enough to not be stuck in your hand too long, it's good for its mana cost, it has heal synergy and it cannot be used for dealing face damage with Velen and/or Malygos.
Chapter 3 of Tombs of Terror Unlocks Today!
Such a bs boss. 2 runs and I’ve knocked off about 60 hp in normal mode. I mean he only played about 12 f’ng Sylvanasii with free procs. What fun
Chapter 3 of Tombs of Terror Unlocks Today!
Ok, having played a few times now I can see how the saved health mechanic will allow more people to finish the adventure (especially on heroic) there just seems to be some very dull rounds when I have to chip off 0-100 health. Generally there’s no difficulty on the last boss.
It was interesting to try but having to do an entire run to knock off 30 health is very unrewarding.
"Do the Math": the math doesn't check out
So far I've had atrociously bad luck playing Scepter of Summoning decks in Uldum. Small sample size, but I rarely get big minion buckets so it's happened more than once that I died on boss 3 or 4 without a single greater than 5 cost in my deck. Not sure if Reno is uniquely unfavoured at getting big minions, which would make sense for rogue if not for mage, or if this also applies to the rest of the league.
Chapter 3 of Tombs of Terror Unlocks Today!
I didn't think I was going to end up buying the adventure because it is bad value for your gold, but this looks like too much fun!
"Do the Math": the math doesn't check out
Yeah avoided it, especially because most of the time the treasures and/or hero items are one or two mana so I would destroy those power houses..
"Do the Math": the math doesn't check out
Yeah, obviously it could potentially work in a big minions deck. However, my question was if anyone has actually used this treasure, and not regretted it. I'm guessing, like me, people are avoiding it. I mean, it even costs more than other options.