nothing much by itself, but after the more engaged part of the community migrated here the amount of rage threads and overall lunacy has increased.
Basically you get a bunch of threads really aggressively ranting about a certain card without actually providing any arguments ("Zephrys is so OP because he gave my opponent lethal. No card should just give lethal"). Then a bunch of people who agree without adding anything ("you're right, fuck Zephrys"), a bunch of people who disagree and reference the Salt thread a lot ("OP is rank 50 confirmed, git gud") and then Hooghout chimes in and rambles for 3 paragraphs while using the word "mindless" at least once.
It would be funny if it wasn't so repetitive. Can't really get a discussion going if people keep spamming nonsense that adds nothing of value.
I'm starting to see a pattern on this thread. Some say it creates a huge tempo swing way too early, others say that the big minion can be countered with 2 cost cards. But that's the point - the combo is like a counter, and in this case, it's a counter to a fast, minion-swarming meta. It comes out earlier when fighting against aggro or tempo and most of the time it immediately takes control of the board. But if you're facing control, the combo happens later when it's easier for any deck to recover, let alone a control deck. Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate is going to be relevant as long as the meta stays minion centered. Does that mean it needs a nerf? Maybe, I can't say for sure. But I agree with others that keeping the cost permanent once it enters the battlefield (but letting it revert in case it's bounced or resurrected, like an enchantment) would overall be a good change to the game, not just because of this.
thing is...it doesn't just counter minion heavy decks. It literally goes down to 3-mana by the time 4 minions are on the field...when the deck itself also tends to swarm as well. this means that even slower decks that play only a few select early game minions can easily get blown out by this thing on turn 3 despite not even playing into it. The only real counter would be to not play any minions at all...which doesn't really seem intended
Cards/comboes that create big minions are not inherently a problem. King Phaoris, Astromancer, etc. are powerful, but fair. It's when you can hit that power spike on turn 3/4 that it becomes a big issue. And yes that goes for Cleef too, it's absurd he hasn't been HoF'ed or nerfed to four mana considering how many games, even at a high level, are decided by a turn two or three huge Cleef.
People talk about cleef and they say he is super good and he should be HoF or nerfed. But maybe I have seen like 10 edwins in my 2-3 years of playing hearthstone. I really don't see him much ever and he has never seemed like he has been good enough to need to get nerfed. Why do you think edwin should be HoFed? is he really that much of a problem?
No i think he's not - sure i had a game a few years back were i was up against a 12/12 Edwin on 3 or 4 , but that does not happen that often. Most of the time he's a 6/6 or max an 8/8 - but even that does not happen that often - so i do not see him as a problem.
Cards/comboes that create big minions are not inherently a problem. King Phaoris, Astromancer, etc. are powerful, but fair. It's when you can hit that power spike on turn 3/4 that it becomes a big issue. And yes that goes for Cleef too, it's absurd he hasn't been HoF'ed or nerfed to four mana considering how many games, even at a high level, are decided by a turn two or three huge Cleef.
People talk about cleef and they say he is super good and he should be HoF or nerfed. But maybe I have seen like 10 edwins in my 2-3 years of playing hearthstone. I really don't see him much ever and he has never seemed like he has been good enough to need to get nerfed. Why do you think edwin should be HoFed? is he really that much of a problem?
Oh come on. Just because Rogue is off-meta right now doesn't mean that the most powerful rogue card ever is suddenly fine. Off the top of my head I can't recall a rogue list in the previous season of GM that didn't include him, and before that I'm pretty sure every viable competitive rogue list that didn't include The Caverns Below ran him as well.
And no, he doesn't always come down as a 12/12, and he doesn't have to to be a problem. A turn 2 6/6 or a turn 3 8/8 is so far ahead of the curve that most decks have to take two turns dealing with the problem unless they have exactly the right answer in hand, which means taking massive damage while the rogue can freely develop. It's like how the better class of Priest players doesn't just play Inner Fire + Divine Spirit for a 32/32 lethal, oftentimes making a 6/6 cleric on turn two is the correct play.
So yes, Cleef has been a problem since the dawn of hearthstone.
at the very least one could argue that Cleef is more balanced by being a legendary that also requires a lot of ressources and can easily be countered via silence (of which there is a neutral counter available to every deck)
I think it's a bit of a drag that Warrior has been the only viable control class for ages now. It really makes the meta a lot more onesided when one of the three major archetypes of decks is represented by a single class.
for ages is a bit of an overstatement. Warrior only came back as a control class during Rumble when Odd Warrior finally became good enough (thanks to the Dragon package)
the only reason why Warrior even got to this point is because pretty much all other "control" classes got more proactive strategies (well that and Dr. Boom). Take Mage for example: the tools are all there but it's just more effective to be a bit more on the proactive side with Mountain Giants and whatnot.
In fact, Warrior just happens to be the only class who is still able to play the old school control game of "just remove everything your opponent have and win when they die from old age....which is mostly due to the complete overload of removal they have. Bommb Warrior was technically a step in the right direction (as are the new taunt cards) so I'm looking forward to the rotation when a lot of the overly efficient removal and Boom go away so Warrior can build their contorl decks more proactively
Warrior has late-game inevitability. Any control deck that wants to coexist alongside Warrior and have a chance to beat it (EG Quest druid ATM) needs a proactive win condition because in fatigue they lose to warriors. Hence Phaoris, Nomi, Floop, etc.: the hope is to run warrior out of mass removal and win on the spot, because eventually rushing mechs will overcome any amount of threats.
Warriors have a proactive win condition in bombs and they choose not to use it in the current meta because slow and steady wins the race more reliably ATM. Having inevitability is a feature, not a cost.
well yes, their "inevitability" (more like a huge amount of ressource generation of which most doubles as removal, inevitability would be more akin to Jade Golems or Mecha'thun) obviously contributes to their overall success, but it kinda demonstrates the problem that control decks have in general atm, which is that they rely too much on infinite ressources to be viable.
What I'm trying to say is: Warrior is doing to other control decks now what other control decks were doing to Warrior last year (before he got Boom). This just demonstrates that infinite ressources are bad for the game, especially when available to classes with strong control tools.
In other words: this might be the last year Warrior even gets to do this before they have to use bombs as their main win condition. It really seems like Blizzard is finally moving away from the ResidentSleeper playstyle
I played a run on Anomaly mode (normal version) that gave Double Battlecry passive with Finley.
Got Shudderwock early on alongside Blade of the Burning Sun. I actually ended up burning the blade in the final boss fight but it didn't matter. I controlled the board hard, played my buff cards, and let him lethal himself to the last third of his health at which point I went back to control.
The 50/1 really made me laugh on the 7th encounter.
Oh yeah, had some Darkness in there too =)
I did have a fun run before that with Reno and that crazy Ancient Reflections. Also had picked up Band of Scarabs which made the extra murlocs the opponents were getting all trash-tier. Getting out a bunch of Lich King through the effect made for hilarity.
Absolutely incredible chain of events here. Took Crook and Flail.
Turn 2 the Molten Giant came onto the board for free.
Also, Ol' Toomba in another run swapped out a Gnoll from my Hogger for a Kalecgos. Absolutely amazing to have a free spell every turn for Ancient Reflections value.
Have not yet touched Heroic but already Tombs of Terror is feeling even better than The Dalaran Heist. I started playing the Heist exclusively after it launched and didn't touch much constructed again until Uldum came out. It's really nice to have something different when standard gets boring.
Is it just me or is the "Reply" button on mobile version of the site (I'm on android) bugged? It always leaves normal comments at the bottom of the thread instead of replying under selected comment. It did it to me twice now and it felt really stupid. It discourages me to reply anymore, is there at least an alternative way of doing it?
Sorry if there was another thread on this issue, I found none yet!
Hot damn that was fun! Played Reno, took the damage HP, and the treasure that refreshes and discounts your HP every time you play an even-cost card. Just torched everything all day long. Beat the first 2 bosses on turn 3 with Mana Addict into Sorcerer's Apprentice then spells-go-nuts. Beat Murloc Golem on first try. Love this stuff!
currently on my third attempt. Got it down to 40 on the first run, then down to 12 on the second mainly because I misread what Primordial Bulwark does and thought it would Iceblock me the entire turn.
Definitely having fun though. So many new treasure and synergies you get to try out. Definitely feels ilke a step up from Dalaran
Beat it first try with enemy minions cost 1 more and have -1 attack treasures. Had great weapons too, they carried my game along some spell damage early. Vs last boss his second hero power will help your murlocs more than his so that made him practically kill himself mid-game. He tributes his murloc to buff your board 😂
I beat him on the first try with Finley and the treasure that gives all opposing minions -1 attack. During the 200-100 HP phase I managed to get more murlocs on the board than the boss, so the golem's deathrattle was actually beneficial to me. The 100-0 HP phase was a bit scary since I was approaching the end of my deck, but fortunately the hero power of that phase needs to recharge, so the boss was only able to use it once before he ran out of life.
By the way, that -1 attack treasure is really good for the earlier bosses as well, since a lot of them go wide (the ones I got, anyway, I guess it's random). And the AI doesn't take it into account, for example trying and failing to remove your minion using 0/1 BEEEES!!!.
I almost beat him first time, only 12 hp left... But second time I got twice the treasure that summons a legendary twice and a khadgar that always starts in my hand you can imagine the result !
I am not that competitive in the game and mostly play casual. (Don't even use a tracker so this image is all I have to show) Played my Quest Hunter for a while when it came out thinking it would be a meme, but ended up going into ranked to try it out in a more harsh enviroment.
I dont think the deck is op, and I know my results don't look the same as a more reliable source. But it is actually quite underated.
And the best part is... The deck is actually lots of fun!
Just fought the second plague lord for the first time and was almost able to kill him with my 35 attack Phaoris' Blade. Then he played Spreading Madness while he had 3 health and I had 1 (+some big minions on the board). Props to the AI for playing to his outs I guess? lol
Regardless I've been having a lot of fun with the tombs of Terror so far, feel free to share your crazy experiences as well. :)
Was not ready. Had a deck full of murlocs, and he kept transforming mine into that guy that draws cards when murlocs die. He milled about 2/3 of my deck that way. By the time I got him down to 70 health, I was out of cards and he had like 30 some in his deck. Beat him pretty easy the next time since his heath carries over
Almost beat it at first try too! Got a crazy good deck with the "deal damage to every minion at the start of every turn" anomaly, the windfury 1/3 weapon, frost litch jaina and the gyrocopter... Lost because I made too many mistakes in a row. It seems that coming back later feels a little bit more challenging (at least for me) than the first try. He made some crazy plays and was way ahead on turn 2
Also managed to beat it on the first try as reno. I had the heal 2 health at the end of your turn passive, and the passive that gives your Minions +1 health and taunt. Trust me those treasures + Frost Lich Jaina is Nuts! Never had any Trouble staying alive.
I don't remember what my treasures were, had some pretty bad ones.
Just thought I would post this for fun and to help out if anyone finds themselves annoyed with the final Murlock Boss. He has 300 health and you can technically go back and fight him over and over until you beat him but I got incredibly lucky with my Treasures on my first attempt and was able to take him out in one shot. The key cards were Runaway Gyrocopter as seen in the screen shot below and Titan's Ring (I think that was the name...gives all your minions +1 Health and Taunt). I could have finished the Murlock off many many many turns earlier but I wanted to see his deck and if he had anything unique in it other than "Fill my board with Murlocks every turn.". Turns out...he doesn't. lol. But yeah, if you get the Runaway Gyrocopter as a Treasure option take it, as it is invaluable on the final boss as it overs consistent non-stop board clears.
I'm work on this deck every day.. making changes to beat some meta decks, like Reno Warlocks, Secret Mages(I'm stuck on Rank 6 and have a lot of SM). Every change I do is on hearthpwn(Because can sync with my collection). Link here
I put cards like Khartut Defender because Secret Mages. I'll try the bear 3/12 taunt too. Scarlet Webweaver sounds weird with Kathrena. Maybe Thaurissan can be better.
Skulking Geist is just good vs Jade/Mechatun Druids. I'm considering remove him.
Can I get some F's in the chat? (Tombs of Terror)
And at least you only have to sneeze on him next time.
Reply button on mobile version
Oh, I really do have system update pending for quite a long time. Will try after update later to see if it works then. Thanks for the info!
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
nothing much by itself, but after the more engaged part of the community migrated here the amount of rage threads and overall lunacy has increased.
Basically you get a bunch of threads really aggressively ranting about a certain card without actually providing any arguments ("Zephrys is so OP because he gave my opponent lethal. No card should just give lethal"). Then a bunch of people who agree without adding anything ("you're right, fuck Zephrys"), a bunch of people who disagree and reference the Salt thread a lot ("OP is rank 50 confirmed, git gud") and then Hooghout chimes in and rambles for 3 paragraphs while using the word "mindless" at least once.
It would be funny if it wasn't so repetitive. Can't really get a discussion going if people keep spamming nonsense that adds nothing of value.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
thing is...it doesn't just counter minion heavy decks. It literally goes down to 3-mana by the time 4 minions are on the field...when the deck itself also tends to swarm as well. this means that even slower decks that play only a few select early game minions can easily get blown out by this thing on turn 3 despite not even playing into it. The only real counter would be to not play any minions at all...which doesn't really seem intended
Reply button on mobile version
Other occurrences of this were due to out of date software so you'll likely need to upgrade your browser on your phone or the OS.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
at the very least one could argue that Cleef is more balanced by being a legendary that also requires a lot of ressources and can easily be countered via silence (of which there is a neutral counter available to every deck)
The Meta seems ...
well yes, their "inevitability" (more like a huge amount of ressource generation of which most doubles as removal, inevitability would be more akin to Jade Golems or Mecha'thun) obviously contributes to their overall success, but it kinda demonstrates the problem that control decks have in general atm, which is that they rely too much on infinite ressources to be viable.
What I'm trying to say is: Warrior is doing to other control decks now what other control decks were doing to Warrior last year (before he got Boom). This just demonstrates that infinite ressources are bad for the game, especially when available to classes with strong control tools.
In other words: this might be the last year Warrior even gets to do this before they have to use bombs as their main win condition. It really seems like Blizzard is finally moving away from the ResidentSleeper playstyle
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
I played a run on Anomaly mode (normal version) that gave Double Battlecry passive with Finley.
Got Shudderwock early on alongside Blade of the Burning Sun. I actually ended up burning the blade in the final boss fight but it didn't matter. I controlled the board hard, played my buff cards, and let him lethal himself to the last third of his health at which point I went back to control.
The 50/1 really made me laugh on the 7th encounter.
Oh yeah, had some Darkness in there too =)
I did have a fun run before that with Reno and that crazy Ancient Reflections. Also had picked up Band of Scarabs which made the extra murlocs the opponents were getting all trash-tier. Getting out a bunch of Lich King through the effect made for hilarity.
Absolutely incredible chain of events here. Took Crook and Flail.
Also, Ol' Toomba in another run swapped out a Gnoll from my Hogger for a Kalecgos. Absolutely amazing to have a free spell every turn for Ancient Reflections value.
Have not yet touched Heroic but already Tombs of Terror is feeling even better than The Dalaran Heist. I started playing the Heist exclusively after it launched and didn't touch much constructed again until Uldum came out. It's really nice to have something different when standard gets boring.
Reply button on mobile version
Is it just me or is the "Reply" button on mobile version of the site (I'm on android) bugged? It always leaves normal comments at the bottom of the thread instead of replying under selected comment. It did it to me twice now and it felt really stupid. It discourages me to reply anymore, is there at least an alternative way of doing it?
Sorry if there was another thread on this issue, I found none yet!
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
Hot damn that was fun! Played Reno, took the damage HP, and the treasure that refreshes and discounts your HP every time you play an even-cost card. Just torched everything all day long. Beat the first 2 bosses on turn 3 with Mana Addict into Sorcerer's Apprentice then spells-go-nuts. Beat Murloc Golem on first try. Love this stuff!
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
currently on my third attempt. Got it down to 40 on the first run, then down to 12 on the second mainly because I misread what Primordial Bulwark does and thought it would Iceblock me the entire turn.
Definitely having fun though. So many new treasure and synergies you get to try out. Definitely feels ilke a step up from Dalaran
Can I get some F's in the chat? (Tombs of Terror)
see the positive side: that boss now has a sick clip for his highlight reel
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
Just discovered an OP combination that will let anyone totally destroy him.
Aegis of death + Primordial Bulkward.
You have 5 peacefull turns followed by 2 pyroblasts on your enemies face... It is incredible
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
Beat it first try with enemy minions cost 1 more and have -1 attack treasures. Had great weapons too, they carried my game along some spell damage early. Vs last boss his second hero power will help your murlocs more than his so that made him practically kill himself mid-game. He tributes his murloc to buff your board 😂
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
I beat him on the first try with Finley and the treasure that gives all opposing minions -1 attack. During the 200-100 HP phase I managed to get more murlocs on the board than the boss, so the golem's deathrattle was actually beneficial to me. The 100-0 HP phase was a bit scary since I was approaching the end of my deck, but fortunately the hero power of that phase needs to recharge, so the boss was only able to use it once before he ran out of life.
By the way, that -1 attack treasure is really good for the earlier bosses as well, since a lot of them go wide (the ones I got, anyway, I guess it's random). And the AI doesn't take it into account, for example trying and failing to remove your minion using 0/1 BEEEES!!!.
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
I almost beat him first time, only 12 hp left... But second time I got twice the treasure that summons a legendary twice and a khadgar that always starts in my hand you can imagine the result !
Unsolicited ramblings on the quests
Got to agree with you here.
I am not that competitive in the game and mostly play casual. (Don't even use a tracker so this image is all I have to show) Played my Quest Hunter for a while when it came out thinking it would be a meme, but ended up going into ranked to try it out in a more harsh enviroment.
I dont think the deck is op, and I know my results don't look the same as a more reliable source. But it is actually quite underated.
And the best part is... The deck is actually lots of fun!
Can I get some F's in the chat? (Tombs of Terror)
Just fought the second plague lord for the first time and was almost able to kill him with my 35 attack Phaoris' Blade. Then he played Spreading Madness while he had 3 health and I had 1 (+some big minions on the board). Props to the AI for playing to his outs I guess? lol
Regardless I've been having a lot of fun with the tombs of Terror so far, feel free to share your crazy experiences as well. :)
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
Was not ready. Had a deck full of murlocs, and he kept transforming mine into that guy that draws cards when murlocs die. He milled about 2/3 of my deck that way. By the time I got him down to 70 health, I was out of cards and he had like 30 some in his deck. Beat him pretty easy the next time since his heath carries over
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
Almost beat it at first try too! Got a crazy good deck with the "deal damage to every minion at the start of every turn" anomaly, the windfury 1/3 weapon, frost litch jaina and the gyrocopter... Lost because I made too many mistakes in a row. It seems that coming back later feels a little bit more challenging (at least for me) than the first try. He made some crazy plays and was way ahead on turn 2
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
Also managed to beat it on the first try as reno. I had the heal 2 health at the end of your turn passive, and the passive that gives your Minions +1 health and taunt. Trust me those treasures + Frost Lich Jaina is Nuts! Never had any Trouble staying alive.
I don't remember what my treasures were, had some pretty bad ones.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: KickMachine#2239
Region: EU
Trade Only?: Yes, you go first
DONE
Tombs of Terror: Final Murlock Boss
Just thought I would post this for fun and to help out if anyone finds themselves annoyed with the final Murlock Boss. He has 300 health and you can technically go back and fight him over and over until you beat him but I got incredibly lucky with my Treasures on my first attempt and was able to take him out in one shot. The key cards were Runaway Gyrocopter as seen in the screen shot below and Titan's Ring (I think that was the name...gives all your minions +1 Health and Taunt). I could have finished the Murlock off many many many turns earlier but I wanted to see his deck and if he had anything unique in it other than "Fill my board with Murlocks every turn.". Turns out...he doesn't. lol. But yeah, if you get the Runaway Gyrocopter as a Treasure option take it, as it is invaluable on the final boss as it overs consistent non-stop board clears.
Take care.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
boandlkramer#2912
eu
trade only, you first, i can show.
[Wild] Highlander Hunter
I'm work on this deck every day.. making changes to beat some meta decks, like Reno Warlocks, Secret Mages(I'm stuck on Rank 6 and have a lot of SM). Every change I do is on hearthpwn(Because can sync with my collection). Link here
I put cards like Khartut Defender because Secret Mages. I'll try the bear 3/12 taunt too. Scarlet Webweaver sounds weird with Kathrena. Maybe Thaurissan can be better.
Skulking Geist is just good vs Jade/Mechatun Druids. I'm considering remove him.
Thanks for suggestions