I agree about legendaries not mattering unless they are central to the deck's purpose (like Undatakah) but I love the idea of those 2 guys. I do enjoy control decks in every class, and the possibilities of playing Thekal on 3, then healing to full for 30 health plus 29 armor is so enticing. Plus, I've heard you can play some broken turn 3 Molten Giant in wild, but I have yet to see this deck in action.
I'm starting to see a pattern on this thread. Some say it creates a huge tempo swing way too early, others say that the big minion can be countered with 2 cost cards. But that's the point - the combo is like a counter, and in this case, it's a counter to a fast, minion-swarming meta. It comes out earlier when fighting against aggro or tempo and most of the time it immediately takes control of the board. But if you're facing control, the combo happens later when it's easier for any deck to recover, let alone a control deck. Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate is going to be relevant as long as the meta stays minion centered. Does that mean it needs a nerf? Maybe, I can't say for sure. But I agree with others that keeping the cost permanent once it enters the battlefield (but letting it revert in case it's bounced or resurrected, like an enchantment) would overall be a good change to the game, not just because of this.
And yeah, the undatakah keeps all the previous deathrattles, thanks to the prelate's "Keeps all enchantments" card text, so the order doesn't really matter, the combo only gets ruined sometimes if you play the prelate more than once.
I didn't mention this in the guide because i thought it went without saying, but i figured i'd say it now.
Undatakah, sunfury protector, should be the last 2 cards you play in a matchup, just because you get the combo pieces played early in a game and have the combo in your hand at turn 10 doesn't mean you should play it, your opponent won't know they'll need to save a hex or a poly or a silence for you, unless you play it early. try to bait out those removal cards before you combo, if that means playing your prelate a 2nd time and sound the belling it, go for it.
I'm a firm believer in "Legendaries don't really matter for deckbuilding" thekal i believe isn't an auto include in this deck, i like him because having the ability to heal early with kangor flash if you have that in hand early or just having a 3 mana 3/4 in play most of the time is good but he's not really needed, if you replace him i'd recommend someone of the same mana cost, maybe a taunt or something, but i think kangor is pretty great in this deck and any control paladin, having the ability to double healing from shirvallah or flash of light or even just throwing him out as a major threat of you healing next turn after you buff him to your opponent, is really strong, but if you don't plan on playing control pally in the future same as thekal replace him with something else low in curve, maybe a rebuke.
Cards/comboes that create big minions are not inherently a problem. King Phaoris, Astromancer, etc. are powerful, but fair. It's when you can hit that power spike on turn 3/4 that it becomes a big issue. And yes that goes for Cleef too, it's absurd he hasn't been HoF'ed or nerfed to four mana considering how many games, even at a high level, are decided by a turn two or three huge Cleef.
People talk about cleef and they say he is super good and he should be HoF or nerfed. But maybe I have seen like 10 edwins in my 2-3 years of playing hearthstone. I really don't see him much ever and he has never seemed like he has been good enough to need to get nerfed. Why do you think edwin should be HoFed? is he really that much of a problem?
Cool to know! I personally love maps and try to locate where things happen. It took me awhile to understand that the map from the other article was Azeroth before dividing into several parts haha.
I've played W1 to 3 and read some of the books, so there's some lore I know about, but most of what happend in WOW slips my knowledge, so this articles tell me some and invite me to investigate the others!
And like i said in another topic about Conjurers Calling and the Nerf Situations - evolving into something with higher mana cost could simply be "fixed" if a reduced minion would keep the reduced cost for the evolve - like if the Fleshshaper is reduced to 3 for example it should evolve into a 4 cost minion and not it´s basic stats
That's literally what the OP is asking for: "If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now."
Oh ok i guess i read the opening text wrong :)
Yes this could be a fix for those cards but still i do not see the mutate + fleshshaper as a big problem - at least right now :)
I'm only missing Kangor and Thekal. How valuable are they? I could craft them if needed, I have the dust.
I seem to recall some crazy Undatakah combo decks that only work if he grabs the deathrattles in the right order, but this looks like it's good to go either way. Is that right?
Sure, we run Mysterious Challenger too. There are plenty of secrets for both. I don't agree that destroying cards is automatically better than playing them. Moreover, I see Hemet as a liability because he's a dead card in hand until you draw Subdue (this happened to me once). You say you prefer to play a true highlander, rather than running Reno and duplicates because you have to draw the duplicates before you can play Reno. This is the same thing: Hemet sits in your hand, unplayable, until you draw a certain card. In the late game, after you've drawn all your cards, you usually can't afford the extra turn it will take to dump the rest of your cards, especially if they are costly cards like Hemet.
I'll help you with it: if you are against Murloc, keep your removals and spread; if you are against Quest, don't play more than 3 minions at time (MCT will punish you really hard since it will always steal good stuff) and clear Lifedrinkers, EVIL Totems and Lackeys (you don't want to enable Weaponized Wasp).
I should have a lot of replays on HS Replay, so if you want I can link you some on them (I run Underbelly Fence instead of Hench-Clan Thug though)
I've been playing around with Big Warrior also - I've ended up cutting vargoth due to feeling it's a "win more" card.
If you have in hand then it's often just a turn 4 soft taunt, if you're lucky you might pull it off gather your party or dimensional ripper but I've found that a big minion or using Blatant Decoy instead is just better.
Also Ysharg is a great addition to this deck, and being even you could even use sylvanus or ragnaros.
Mountain giant is an interesting idea, but would be anti-control right? against aggro you're using cards to stabilise the board until your minions come out - most of the time you're hand sitting is vs control. Also if you pull out your deck, sure it's nice but a fat effect would be nicer.
I love you're deck - using it as evens is great, I've tried and havnt managed to make it work better than non-even big warrior. I'd just add more crazy wild legendary minions if possible.
I think it's a bit of a drag that Warrior has been the only viable control class for ages now. It really makes the meta a lot more onesided when one of the three major archetypes of decks is represented by a single class.
for ages is a bit of an overstatement. Warrior only came back as a control class during Rumble when Odd Warrior finally became good enough (thanks to the Dragon package)
Not totally correct: Odd Warrior was already popular around the Spiteful Nerf. Yeah, it wasn't pure Odd package since it used to run the Quest, but it was still tier 1.
God it's been a while since I started loathing the class.
Please Devs, PLEASE, don't give Warrior OP stuff in the next expansion and keep its power level in check after the rotation. That's all I have to ask: playing against Garrosh/Magni without the need to puke.
Singleton Infinite AOE paladin.
I agree about legendaries not mattering unless they are central to the deck's purpose (like Undatakah) but I love the idea of those 2 guys. I do enjoy control decks in every class, and the possibilities of playing Thekal on 3, then healing to full for 30 health plus 29 armor is so enticing. Plus, I've heard you can play some broken turn 3 Molten Giant in wild, but I have yet to see this deck in action.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Weapon Shaman!
Next, a KFT Mech.
The Forgotten Wilds of Hearthstone - A Stag's Shamanistic Secrets
Geez, I wish I had forgotten about Mysterious Challenger ..!
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
I'm starting to see a pattern on this thread. Some say it creates a huge tempo swing way too early, others say that the big minion can be countered with 2 cost cards. But that's the point - the combo is like a counter, and in this case, it's a counter to a fast, minion-swarming meta. It comes out earlier when fighting against aggro or tempo and most of the time it immediately takes control of the board. But if you're facing control, the combo happens later when it's easier for any deck to recover, let alone a control deck. Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate is going to be relevant as long as the meta stays minion centered. Does that mean it needs a nerf? Maybe, I can't say for sure. But I agree with others that keeping the cost permanent once it enters the battlefield (but letting it revert in case it's bounced or resurrected, like an enchantment) would overall be a good change to the game, not just because of this.
Singleton Infinite AOE paladin.
And yeah, the undatakah keeps all the previous deathrattles, thanks to the prelate's "Keeps all enchantments" card text, so the order doesn't really matter, the combo only gets ruined sometimes if you play the prelate more than once.
Singleton Infinite AOE paladin.
I didn't mention this in the guide because i thought it went without saying, but i figured i'd say it now.
Undatakah, sunfury protector, should be the last 2 cards you play in a matchup, just because you get the combo pieces played early in a game and have the combo in your hand at turn 10 doesn't mean you should play it, your opponent won't know they'll need to save a hex or a poly or a silence for you, unless you play it early. try to bait out those removal cards before you combo, if that means playing your prelate a 2nd time and sound the belling it, go for it.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
It's mostly casuals/people who have no idea how the game works.
People who think quest shaman is ridiculously strong because their homebrewed budget quest warrior can't beat it and stuff.
Singleton Infinite AOE paladin.
Thank you :T
Singleton Infinite AOE paladin.
I'm a firm believer in "Legendaries don't really matter for deckbuilding" thekal i believe isn't an auto include in this deck, i like him because having the ability to heal early with kangor flash if you have that in hand early or just having a 3 mana 3/4 in play most of the time is good but he's not really needed, if you replace him i'd recommend someone of the same mana cost, maybe a taunt or something, but i think kangor is pretty great in this deck and any control paladin, having the ability to double healing from shirvallah or flash of light or even just throwing him out as a major threat of you healing next turn after you buff him to your opponent, is really strong, but if you don't plan on playing control pally in the future same as thekal replace him with something else low in curve, maybe a rebuke.
[Top 100] Necrium Blade Rogue
A few links to replays would be great, thanks!
The Forgotten Wilds of Hearthstone - A Stag's Shamanistic Secrets
Malorne was my first opened legendary ever (and it was golden as well). He will always hold a special place in my heart.
Traversing Azeroth - The Troll Loa
Sorry if the map was confusing. I'll try to make it more clear in future articles.
Hecklebot Shaman
Looks interesting. Sadly I do not have Swampqueen Hagatha.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
People talk about cleef and they say he is super good and he should be HoF or nerfed. But maybe I have seen like 10 edwins in my 2-3 years of playing hearthstone. I really don't see him much ever and he has never seemed like he has been good enough to need to get nerfed. Why do you think edwin should be HoFed? is he really that much of a problem?
Traversing Azeroth - The Troll Loa
Cool to know! I personally love maps and try to locate where things happen. It took me awhile to understand that the map from the other article was Azeroth before dividing into several parts haha.
I've played W1 to 3 and read some of the books, so there's some lore I know about, but most of what happend in WOW slips my knowledge, so this articles tell me some and invite me to investigate the others!
Thanks a lot!
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Oh ok i guess i read the opening text wrong :)
Yes this could be a fix for those cards but still i do not see the mutate + fleshshaper as a big problem - at least right now :)
Meme of the Week: Immortality
I thought thats how it worked.
thanks for answering, I don't mind if it was a little late.
Singleton Infinite AOE paladin.
I'm only missing Kangor and Thekal. How valuable are they? I could craft them if needed, I have the dust.
I seem to recall some crazy Undatakah combo decks that only work if he grabs the deathrattles in the right order, but this looks like it's good to go either way. Is that right?
Reno Has Lots of Secrets!
Sure, we run Mysterious Challenger too. There are plenty of secrets for both. I don't agree that destroying cards is automatically better than playing them. Moreover, I see Hemet as a liability because he's a dead card in hand until you draw Subdue (this happened to me once). You say you prefer to play a true highlander, rather than running Reno and duplicates because you have to draw the duplicates before you can play Reno. This is the same thing: Hemet sits in your hand, unplayable, until you draw a certain card. In the late game, after you've drawn all your cards, you usually can't afford the extra turn it will take to dump the rest of your cards, especially if they are costly cards like Hemet.
Lifedrinker
I never thought this card would have seen such a high amount of play
[Top 100] Necrium Blade Rogue
I'll help you with it: if you are against Murloc, keep your removals and spread; if you are against Quest, don't play more than 3 minions at time (MCT will punish you really hard since it will always steal good stuff) and clear Lifedrinkers, EVIL Totems and Lackeys (you don't want to enable Weaponized Wasp).
I should have a lot of replays on HS Replay, so if you want I can link you some on them (I run Underbelly Fence instead of Hench-Clan Thug though)
Even Recruit Warrior
I've been playing around with Big Warrior also - I've ended up cutting vargoth due to feeling it's a "win more" card.
If you have in hand then it's often just a turn 4 soft taunt, if you're lucky you might pull it off gather your party or dimensional ripper but I've found that a big minion or using Blatant Decoy instead is just better.
Also Ysharg is a great addition to this deck, and being even you could even use sylvanus or ragnaros.
Mountain giant is an interesting idea, but would be anti-control right? against aggro you're using cards to stabilise the board until your minions come out - most of the time you're hand sitting is vs control. Also if you pull out your deck, sure it's nice but a fat effect would be nicer.
I love you're deck - using it as evens is great, I've tried and havnt managed to make it work better than non-even big warrior. I'd just add more crazy wild legendary minions if possible.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
How's Hearthpwn doing?
Will you buy tombs of terror?
7 PM CEST
The Meta seems ...
Not totally correct: Odd Warrior was already popular around the Spiteful Nerf. Yeah, it wasn't pure Odd package since it used to run the Quest, but it was still tier 1.
God it's been a while since I started loathing the class.
Please Devs, PLEASE, don't give Warrior OP stuff in the next expansion and keep its power level in check after the rotation. That's all I have to ask: playing against Garrosh/Magni without the need to puke.