There's still a bunch of stuff thaht should probably be adressed, but overall yeah, the meta is at least diverse.
Granted, Mage kinda got dumpstered, but Highlander is still very much playable, so it's not that bad. The discovery nerf actually ended up being enough to finally take Warrior down a notch and even Murloc Paladin seems to fade away a bit (thank god)
If anyhting they'll have to address Priest eventually (again). Divine Spirit is just so very obviously shit design and they keep dancing around it. At the very least they seem to be running out of excuses at this point.
I fear that we're all gonna hate Zephrys at some point, but right now he's still fun (but there are a few times he just doesn't seem to get how the game works. someone needs to tell him that Deathrattles need to be silenced and there is, in fact, a 0-mana spell that does that.
I cannot help but notice, that hearthstone has improved much over the last time. Actually, since Brode left. Coincidence?
he left a while ago so i think it is not because he left , and he did good stuff for the game too , sure not everything but still - i think without him Hearthstone wouldn't be were it is right now :)
To the OP: I also like the meta right now because there are so many T2 Decks you can play with decent success - and lot`s of homebrews / meme decks that can also work pretty decent :)
Well the combo is strong i give you that - but a cry for a Nerf is a little over the Top - at least in my oppinion! Sure the 8 Mana Slot is full of good minions but if Blizzard Nerfs every potential threat in the Game we could simply just stop playing because it would be boring - there will always be combos and cards that are better than others or strong but that is what the game needs - and there are classes like Warrior for Example who can deal with these kind of combos pretty easily!
Sure not every class but if every class would get an answer to everything the game would be boring or simply just stale ... and like someone stated above it is strong right now because most of the classes do not play tech cards for big minions - and also sure, not every class has but like i said above either play somekind of neutral tech or learn do live with the fact that not every class can counter everything.
And yes, most of the time the combo can high roll because of the many good 8 Mana Slot Minions but it can also happen that they mutate into Hir'eek, the Bat for example.
I personaly think that the combo is strong but does not need a nerf right now!
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. You see a problem and immediatly cry nerf, rather then looking at the bigger picture. The simple reason of why mogu fleshshaper + mutate is powerfull is because people aren't running cards that awnser it. Or they have a removal option, but are playing a highlander deck and therefor can't consistently find their 1 awnser in time.
You won't hear the control warrior player complain as much about mogu fleshshaper evolve because he has the tools to deal with it. Same with the mecha'thun warlock player, he has plague of flames or voodoo doll + mortal coil to deal with an early big minion.
The fact is, cards like sap, shadow word death, subdue, hex, polymorph ... are seeing not enough play. There is a chance cards like ethereal lackey, vulpera scoundral, mana cyclone, can give you the removal you need but the chances usually aren't in your favor.
Sometimes you highroll your opponent, sometimes you get highrolled but you can't demand a nerf because you refuse to play the awnsers that are in the game or rely on inconsistent strategies to beat those highroller plays.
Cool. Now tell me what answers a turn 3 8-drop in Zoolock? Or in Aggro Warrior? Or in literally any deck that can't afford to run cheap removal (or just doesn't have it?)
the problem is not that Shaman has a highroll combo, it's that we're talking about a fairly common combo that neatly fits into an already powerful deck that punishes you for playing how you're supposed to.
Long story short: played against a lot of Quest Shamans and could beat most of them with a variety of pretty average decks, except of course when they just happen to have Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate on turn 3-4 and just completely highroll you with no counter whatsoever.
I'M not saying Quest Shaman needs to be nerfed in any capacity at this point, but if there's one thing that would drastically axe its winrate it's probably that very combo.
It's just an autowin against any deck that relies on beating them on board and it doesn't help that you don't even have to overcommit to be punished by it. It's essentially MCT but instead of playing around it by having only 3 minions you need to play around it by having no minions whatsoever, because if there are 4 minions on the board by turn 3 you lose the game (unless you are blessed by Hir'eek himself)
This is basically just another symptom of the Conjurer's Calling epidemic because Blizzard refuses to acknowledge that high-cost cards that can reduce their cost to be play on early turns are just broken in combination with cards that take mana cost into account.
If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now.
You are super late to the party, we have the exact same interaction for a looong time. Kobolds had corridor creeper which was literally the same but even easier to get on board early... That + unstable evolution did a lot of stuff... So next time you post circlejerk like this just don't, it's a very old strategy and definitely not that op
no we did not, because a) Creeper needed things to die first, and b) we didn'T have 0-mana evolution (not to mention we didn't really have a Shaman deck that is strong outside of shenanigans like this at the time)
but yeah, let'S call it circlejerk because yo can't form a coherent argument
I don't think it's that big of a problem. It's a big power spike but most decks have big if not bigger power strikes right now. Priests are having 12/12+ on early turns, Edwin is still a card, druids are rushing two 5/5s for 5 (not even a combo), aggro warrior can do some nutty stuff with the merc. It's pretty far off from the value and power of conjurer's calling. Mogu + mutate isn't even super strong in several matchups and 8 drops has plenty of rolls that aren't too insane to deal with.
I think it's pretty important for the deck to get some raw tempo and it makes games interesting. Sometimes you get blown out but that just happens in hearthstone. you would have to change a lot of cards before it made sense to nerf that.
we'Re talking about a 2-card combo that punishes decks that are just playing their gameplan and have no other option to beat you.
We're talking about a 7-mana Sea Giant that also deals 3 damage.
Just wanna add that Mutate has the 4th highest Mulligan winrate in Quest SHaman atm...only beat by Questing Explorer (ofc), Cable Rat and for some reason Shudderwock.
I don't think it's that big of a problem. It's a big power spike but most decks have big if not bigger power strikes right now. Priests are having 12/12+ on early turns, Edwin is still a card, druids are rushing two 5/5s for 5 (not even a combo), aggro warrior can do some nutty stuff with the merc. It's pretty far off from the value and power of conjurer's calling. Mogu + mutate isn't even super strong in several matchups and 8 drops has plenty of rolls that aren't too insane to deal with.
I think it's pretty important for the deck to get some raw tempo and it makes games interesting. Sometimes you get blown out but that just happens in hearthstone. you would have to change a lot of cards before it made sense to nerf that.
Long story short: played against a lot of Quest Shamans and could beat most of them with a variety of pretty average decks, except of course when they just happen to have Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate on turn 3-4 and just completely highroll you with no counter whatsoever.
I'M not saying Quest Shaman needs to be nerfed in any capacity at this point, but if there's one thing that would drastically axe its winrate it's probably that very combo.
It's just an autowin against any deck that relies on beating them on board and it doesn't help that you don't even have to overcommit to be punished by it. It's essentially MCT but instead of playing around it by having only 3 minions you need to play around it by having no minions whatsoever, because if there are 4 minions on the board by turn 3 you lose the game (unless you are blessed by Hir'eek himself)
This is basically just another symptom of the Conjurer's Calling epidemic because Blizzard refuses to acknowledge that high-cost cards that can reduce their cost to be play on early turns are just broken in combination with cards that take mana cost into account.
If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now.
You are super late to the party, we have the exact same interaction for a looong time. Kobolds had corridor creeper which was literally the same but even easier to get on board early... That + unstable evolution did a lot of stuff... So next time you post circlejerk like this just don't, it's a very old strategy and definitely not that op
Blizzard should fix this as a mechanic, if you paid a certain mana cost for something it should keep the mana cost you paid for on board this would solve CC and any other future problem..
This seems fair to me, and I have heard it suggested before.
My question is, if the minion gets bounced back to your hand.
By your own OR by say, SAP. What cost does it go back to your hand at?
Or to the deck if it gets shuffled?
Concistancy would become a problem. The discounted card looses it's discount when used.
It would revent via the enchantment keep/unkeep rules there is a problem with prelete/undertakah with taurrisan/prismatic lens that would permanently reduce they cost (cause my suggestion is to make reduced cost an enchantment) but that's fine I guess it's much more complicated to do..
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. You see a problem and immediatly cry nerf, rather then looking at the bigger picture. The simple reason of why mogu fleshshaper + mutate is powerfull is because people aren't running cards that awnser it. Or they have a removal option, but are playing a highlander deck and therefor can't consistently find their 1 awnser in time.
You won't hear the control warrior player complain as much about mogu fleshshaper evolve because he has the tools to deal with it. Same with the mecha'thun warlock player, he has plague of flames or voodoo doll + mortal coil to deal with an early big minion.
The fact is, cards like sap, shadow word death, subdue, hex, polymorph ... are seeing not enough play. There is a chance cards like ethereal lackey, vulpera scoundral, mana cyclone, can give you the removal you need but the chances usually aren't in your favor.
Sometimes you highroll your opponent, sometimes you get highrolled but you can't demand a nerf because you refuse to play the awnsers that are in the game or rely on inconsistent strategies to beat those highroller plays.
Pressure Plate can be such a bummer sometimes. I played Giggling Inventor in the late game then mutated in into an Octosari, only for the secret to trigger and kill it, effectively emptying my deck and sending me to early fatigue. Because I overdrew my hand, I even managed to burn the Immortal Prelate that I got from an earlier evolve, which I was banking on to save me from fatigue death.
... quite healthy actually. I find myself rather surprised to discover that 6 out of 9 classes have an overall positive winrate (according to hsreplay), and 5 of those 6 are extremely closely matched. And even the three classes that are overall less than 50% winrate still have at least one good deck available that is above 50%. All I can say is that I'm pleasantly surprised.
Evolve Shaman with Thrall, Deathseer is the reason I have the golden Shaman hero! As soon as I opened that card I built the deck and played it at a 75% win rate for over 100 wins... Insane! The dominance of that deck dropped after a few months though after they nerfed Corridor Creeper followed by the sudden rise of Prince Keleseth tempo decks.
Blizzard should fix this as a mechanic, if you paid a certain mana cost for something it should keep the mana cost you paid for on board this would solve CC and any other future problem..
This seems fair to me, and I have heard it suggested before.
My question is, if the minion gets bounced back to your hand.
By your own OR by say, SAP. What cost does it go back to your hand at?
Or to the deck if it gets shuffled?
Concistancy would become a problem. The discounted card looses it's discount when used.
It would definitely go back to hand at the original cost, with only additional cost reduction effects or cost manipulating effects on the card itself bringing the cost back down again.
The same is pretty true with cards that have been buffed or debuffed when they bounce, the stats all reset.
He's pointing out who to attack! Not exactly an original concept but I think it fits the flavour well, somewhat comparable to Toxfin, a weaker effect, but available without the Murloc restriction.
Blizzard should fix this as a mechanic, if you paid a certain mana cost for something it should keep the mana cost you paid for on board this would solve CC and any other future problem..
This seems fair to me, and I have heard it suggested before.
My question is, if the minion gets bounced back to your hand.
By your own OR by say, SAP. What cost does it go back to your hand at?
Or to the deck if it gets shuffled?
Concistancy would become a problem. The discounted card looses it's discount when used.
The Meta seems ...
There's still a bunch of stuff thaht should probably be adressed, but overall yeah, the meta is at least diverse.
Granted, Mage kinda got dumpstered, but Highlander is still very much playable, so it's not that bad. The discovery nerf actually ended up being enough to finally take Warrior down a notch and even Murloc Paladin seems to fade away a bit (thank god)
If anyhting they'll have to address Priest eventually (again). Divine Spirit is just so very obviously shit design and they keep dancing around it. At the very least they seem to be running out of excuses at this point.
I fear that we're all gonna hate Zephrys at some point, but right now he's still fun (but there are a few times he just doesn't seem to get how the game works. someone needs to tell him that Deathrattles need to be silenced and there is, in fact, a 0-mana spell that does that.
The Meta seems ...
he left a while ago so i think it is not because he left , and he did good stuff for the game too , sure not everything but still - i think without him Hearthstone wouldn't be were it is right now :)
To the OP: I also like the meta right now because there are so many T2 Decks you can play with decent success - and lot`s of homebrews / meme decks that can also work pretty decent :)
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Well the combo is strong i give you that - but a cry for a Nerf is a little over the Top - at least in my oppinion! Sure the 8 Mana Slot is full of good minions but if Blizzard Nerfs every potential threat in the Game we could simply just stop playing because it would be boring - there will always be combos and cards that are better than others or strong but that is what the game needs - and there are classes like Warrior for Example who can deal with these kind of combos pretty easily!
Sure not every class but if every class would get an answer to everything the game would be boring or simply just stale ... and like someone stated above it is strong right now because most of the classes do not play tech cards for big minions - and also sure, not every class has but like i said above either play somekind of neutral tech or learn do live with the fact that not every class can counter everything.
And yes, most of the time the combo can high roll because of the many good 8 Mana Slot Minions but it can also happen that they mutate into Hir'eek, the Bat for example.
I personaly think that the combo is strong but does not need a nerf right now!
The Forgotten Wilds of Hearthstone - A Stag's Shamanistic Secrets
Oh god, Mech Shaman! Those were the days...
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Cool. Now tell me what answers a turn 3 8-drop in Zoolock? Or in Aggro Warrior? Or in literally any deck that can't afford to run cheap removal (or just doesn't have it?)
the problem is not that Shaman has a highroll combo, it's that we're talking about a fairly common combo that neatly fits into an already powerful deck that punishes you for playing how you're supposed to.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
no we did not, because a) Creeper needed things to die first, and b) we didn'T have 0-mana evolution (not to mention we didn't really have a Shaman deck that is strong outside of shenanigans like this at the time)
but yeah, let'S call it circlejerk because yo can't form a coherent argument
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
we'Re talking about a 2-card combo that punishes decks that are just playing their gameplan and have no other option to beat you.
We're talking about a 7-mana Sea Giant that also deals 3 damage.
Grandmasters Season 2 Continues With Week 4!
Divine Favor is already HoFed
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Just wanna add that Mutate has the 4th highest Mulligan winrate in Quest SHaman atm...only beat by Questing Explorer (ofc), Cable Rat and for some reason Shudderwock.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
I don't think it's that big of a problem. It's a big power spike but most decks have big if not bigger power strikes right now. Priests are having 12/12+ on early turns, Edwin is still a card, druids are rushing two 5/5s for 5 (not even a combo), aggro warrior can do some nutty stuff with the merc. It's pretty far off from the value and power of conjurer's calling. Mogu + mutate isn't even super strong in several matchups and 8 drops has plenty of rolls that aren't too insane to deal with.
I think it's pretty important for the deck to get some raw tempo and it makes games interesting. Sometimes you get blown out but that just happens in hearthstone. you would have to change a lot of cards before it made sense to nerf that.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
You are super late to the party, we have the exact same interaction for a looong time. Kobolds had corridor creeper which was literally the same but even easier to get on board early... That + unstable evolution did a lot of stuff... So next time you post circlejerk like this just don't, it's a very old strategy and definitely not that op
The Meta seems ...
I cannot help but notice, that hearthstone has improved much over the last time. Actually, since Brode left. Coincidence?
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
It would revent via the enchantment keep/unkeep rules there is a problem with prelete/undertakah with taurrisan/prismatic lens that would permanently reduce they cost (cause my suggestion is to make reduced cost an enchantment) but that's fine I guess it's much more complicated to do..
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. You see a problem and immediatly cry nerf, rather then looking at the bigger picture.
The simple reason of why mogu fleshshaper + mutate is powerfull is because people aren't running cards that awnser it. Or they have a removal option, but are playing a highlander deck and therefor can't consistently find their 1 awnser in time.
You won't hear the control warrior player complain as much about mogu fleshshaper evolve because he has the tools to deal with it. Same with the mecha'thun warlock player, he has plague of flames or voodoo doll + mortal coil to deal with an early big minion.
The fact is, cards like sap, shadow word death, subdue, hex, polymorph ... are seeing not enough play. There is a chance cards like ethereal lackey, vulpera scoundral, mana cyclone, can give you the removal you need but the chances usually aren't in your favor.
Sometimes you highroll your opponent, sometimes you get highrolled but you can't demand a nerf because you refuse to play the awnsers that are in the game or rely on inconsistent strategies to beat those highroller plays.
League of Explorers
I would say this is the best looking one from the pre-order card backs so far.
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
Pressure Plate can be such a bummer sometimes. I played Giggling Inventor in the late game then mutated in into an Octosari, only for the secret to trigger and kill it, effectively emptying my deck and sending me to early fatigue. Because I overdrew my hand, I even managed to burn the Immortal Prelate that I got from an earlier evolve, which I was banking on to save me from fatigue death.
Meme of the Week: Immortality
Super late response but you keep an Innervate for after you play Linecracker.
The Meta seems ...
... quite healthy actually. I find myself rather surprised to discover that 6 out of 9 classes have an overall positive winrate (according to hsreplay), and 5 of those 6 are extremely closely matched. And even the three classes that are overall less than 50% winrate still have at least one good deck available that is above 50%. All I can say is that I'm pleasantly surprised.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Evolve Shaman with Thrall, Deathseer is the reason I have the golden Shaman hero! As soon as I opened that card I built the deck and played it at a 75% win rate for over 100 wins... Insane! The dominance of that deck dropped after a few months though after they nerfed Corridor Creeper followed by the sudden rise of Prince Keleseth tempo decks.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
It would definitely go back to hand at the original cost, with only additional cost reduction effects or cost manipulating effects on the card itself bringing the cost back down again.
The same is pretty true with cards that have been buffed or debuffed when they bounce, the stats all reset.
Hearthstone Masters Changes Coming in October
'' Its raining men change, hallelujah (...)''
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
He's pointing out who to attack! Not exactly an original concept but I think it fits the flavour well, somewhat comparable to Toxfin, a weaker effect, but available without the Murloc restriction.
Next, a Whispers of the Old Gods Spell.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
This seems fair to me, and I have heard it suggested before.
My question is, if the minion gets bounced back to your hand.
By your own OR by say, SAP. What cost does it go back to your hand at?
Or to the deck if it gets shuffled?
Concistancy would become a problem. The discounted card looses it's discount when used.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
This happened to me today.
All I can say is that the horror is REAL! :)
Will you buy tombs of terror?
Yep, to me the single player content is worth the price alone. The packs are a nice extra.