Ah, man. I guess I won't be running Stonehill Defender in my 'jam as many White Eyes as possible in here' deck, anymore. It already doesn't find them very consistently!
What card d'you guys think prompted this change to Discover? Perhaps Dr. Boom's hero power?
That + Fluncky (always finding armagadillo) and omega assembly. I guess they didn't want to nerf those cards after just nerfing dr boom so they went on changing the mechanic...
Ah, man. I guess I won't be running Stonehill Defender in my 'jam as many White Eyes as possible in here' deck, anymore. It already doesn't find them very consistently!
What card d'you guys think prompted this change to Discover? Perhaps Dr. Boom's hero power?
The discover change is a good nerf for warrior with their pool of mechs and taunts to discover.
However for Wild the change sucks and makes discover options a lot worse because of the bigger card pool as opposed to standard. Maybe the smart deck builder has an answer to that though.. ;-)
Wow this is really well thought out! Heck I would be excited to play this xpac!
Thanks so much! Like I said in the intro portion of the write-up, there might be more, I was originally planning to do a Neutral set of Demon Hunters that were opposed to the invasion and would act sort of like a tribe, think Murlocs or Pirates, as well as add a few Legion aligned Legendaries that didn't quite fit in any class.
But I really just wanted to get it out there so I ended up putting the ideas on hold for the time being.
Finally. After playing against so many combo decks the following decks, I finally faced 4 burn mages in a roll - the thing I built my deck against. Went on a nice win-streak and I'm rank 2 again.
Even if it's a non collectible card, I think Anti-Magic Shell deserves a mention, since it would greatly benefit from making Elusive a keyword.
The Poisonous example is pretty on-point, too. In fact, I was pretty surprised when Poisonous was made a keyword, but Elusive was not, since their prevalence was exactly the same until that point: one Classic card, three cards from previous expansions and three cards and an Adapt option from Un'goro.
I think one of the main reasons why poisonous was made a keyword and elusive was not, is because poisonous is both more interesting and more interactive as a mechanic. Therefore making poisonous a keyword made it easier to create new cards that have or interact with poisonous. Cards with 'can't be targeted by spells or hero powers' basically just say 'haha you can't kill me unless you have minions or a board clear'. Sure they also can't be buffed or healed by targeted effects but that's rarely relevant. the mechanic has never been all that fun or interesting, and making a whole bunch of cards with the effect would most likely be problematic since just one of them being overpowered would cause a lot of frustration. It's better to just have a few (below) average power level cards with the effect and maybe make a new one every so often.
I think RavenSunHS is correct below, but to really drill down to it, you can answer the question posed by the article pretty simply:
Because it doesn't need to be.
Keywords exist as a visual shorthand, and as a learning aide for new players. Blizzard is resistant to adding new keywords, and they should be resistant to it, because the more keywords there are the less either of those objectives is easily met. Enrage was removed as a keyword because there were so few enrage minions, yes - but more to the point, because a keyword that isn't covering a lot of cards isn't doing its job.
I think long-standing HS players will (I would guess) generally like to see this mechanic be given a keyword, be it Elusive or anything else. The reason, I would argue, is simply because it feels neat. It's a mechanic which has existed since the game's release, and which is seen on a card here or there throughout most expansions. To anyone who's played all that time, seen it come up again and again, it simply feels right to give it a shorthand.
But whether it feels right is a separate question to whether it is right. Making the effect a keyword simply wouldn't give any real benefit to the game - there aren't enough cards with the effect to justify it - and would just be a mental bandage for long-standing players. Not coincidentally, those long-standing players are also the ones who get the least real benefit from keywords.
So, in summary, I don't believe the mechanic should be given a keyword.
As a side note - if it were given a keyword, would Elusive be a good fit? Personally, I feel like there's better ones out there. Elusive simply doesn't feel like it's descriptive enough of the effect itself. Sure, the article cites Taunt as an example of a similarly unintuitive effect, but I feel like this is a little disingenuous - Taunt is what it is because it was implemented in Vanilla when Hearthstone placed a much greater focus on callbacks to WoW. Not only has the game moved on since then, but the development team has learned a lot of lessons in designing a smooth and easily picked-up card game. They know better now.
Not at all the main point here, but I do want to point out that the thematic reason for Frightened Flunky to have taunt is that it is based on Shaggy from Scooby-do, and hence is the bait. I.e. he is the minion put down specifically to draw the attention of enemies. It may not fit the word 'taunt' but it certainly fits the mechanic.
As for elusive, I completely agree that it is something they should just pick a word for it and open up design space with, regardless of whether it doesn't always fit thematically. If nothing else, elusive minions having a meaningful presence might make poisonous a keyword people actually use due to a lack of alternative hard removal options.
I always thought of the flavor of "Elusive" basically meaning that it's hard to pin down or target. Sure, you can see it, but through either some form of dodge, absorption, or deflection, they are just impossible to hit effectively with magic. Taunt has a similar implied flavor that makes sense to me. It's not that they all literally taunt you, but through whatever reason-- imposing size blocking your way, really annoying and distracting, or simply shoved in your path as an obstacle by someone else-- they need to be dealt with first before you can focus on anyone else. I never took the terms too literally and have always just understood what unique version of the flavor they imply for that particular minion.
Wow this is really well thought out! Heck I would be excited to play this xpac!
Thanks so much! Like I said in the intro portion of the write-up, there might be more, I was originally planning to do a Neutral set of Demon Hunters that were opposed to the invasion and would act sort of like a tribe, think Murlocs or Pirates, as well as add a few Legion aligned Legendaries that didn't quite fit in any class.
But I really just wanted to get it out there so I ended up putting the ideas on hold for the time being.
I think it's probably not keyworded because it's not worth the effort. They would have to keep in mind that keyword when doing all flavor text, remove it from existing flavor text (to avoid any confusion), and it would only benefit a few cards. We also don't know if it's something that they are trying to get around/phase out, since it is so unbalanced depending on the hero power...
Generally the reason they choose certain mechanics to get a keyword is whether a keyword would accurately describe what it does. Stuff like Deathrattle, Battlecry, etc. all give you a pretty good idea of what it does, without needing to read what the mechanic is before. The best thing I can think of for that would be Magic-Proof or something along those lines, but even then that implies spells can’t damage it at all.
Most suggestions I hear for a name for it imply other things, not just not being able to target it with spells and hero powers.
That’s not to say I personally agree with this philosophy, it is one that could probably benefit from getting a keyword. Though that said, lately they have been changing how they do things, so maybe they’ll make it a keyword at some point in the near future
Patch 15.2 - Discover Mechanic Changes, Tombs of Terror Prep, Wild Gets the Smarter Deckbuilder
Yes !! A big yes for the change of the discover mecanic . So frustrating to face a control warrior with 4 or 5 Omega Devastator ....
Patch 15.2 - Discover Mechanic Changes, Tombs of Terror Prep, Wild Gets the Smarter Deckbuilder
That + Fluncky (always finding armagadillo) and omega assembly. I guess they didn't want to nerf those cards after just nerfing dr boom so they went on changing the mechanic...
Patch 15.2 - Discover Mechanic Changes, Tombs of Terror Prep, Wild Gets the Smarter Deckbuilder
Good nerf for wild Odd Pala and War, more war ofc. Now Omega Assambley, Flunky, hero power from Boom much worse with full random, nice nerf.
Patch 15.2 - Discover Mechanic Changes, Tombs of Terror Prep, Wild Gets the Smarter Deckbuilder
Ah, man. I guess I won't be running Stonehill Defender in my 'jam as many White Eyes as possible in here' deck, anymore. It already doesn't find them very consistently!
What card d'you guys think prompted this change to Discover? Perhaps Dr. Boom's hero power?
Patch 15.2 - Discover Mechanic Changes, Tombs of Terror Prep, Wild Gets the Smarter Deckbuilder
It's a 4x nerf to be more precise :)
Patch 15.2 - Discover Mechanic Changes, Tombs of Terror Prep, Wild Gets the Smarter Deckbuilder
The discover change is a good nerf for warrior with their pool of mechs and taunts to discover.
However for Wild the change sucks and makes discover options a lot worse because of the bigger card pool as opposed to standard. Maybe the smart deck builder has an answer to that though.. ;-)
Patch 15.2 - Discover Mechanic Changes, Tombs of Terror Prep, Wild Gets the Smarter Deckbuilder
It's a fair change on Discovery.
It's actually a nerf tbh (and there pops up again the issue of indirect nerfs), but a fair one.
Tombs of Terror Solo Content Giveaway
My favourite moment so far is actually the new LoE Tavern Brawl. Can't wait for Tombs of Terror to come out!
HearthS'mores
One of my favourite card backs, it's so atmospheric.
Tombs of Terror Solo Content Giveaway
My favorite moment is Savivors of Uldum expansions first moments
March of the Legion [Booster Expansion]
The Demon Hunters would be really neat too.
The Pepper Thread - Share Some Good Vibes!
Finally. After playing against so many combo decks the following decks, I finally faced 4 burn mages in a roll - the thing I built my deck against. Went on a nice win-streak and I'm rank 2 again.
Hearthstone Hypothesis - Why is Elusive Not a Keyword?
I've a better question - why is Enrage not a keyword?
Anyone get packs from Twitch Grandmasters?
Nada, watched the full 3 streams even the hour down on sunday and 0 packs, thanks Blizzard
Hearthstone Hypothesis - Why is Elusive Not a Keyword?
I think one of the main reasons why poisonous was made a keyword and elusive was not, is because poisonous is both more interesting and more interactive as a mechanic. Therefore making poisonous a keyword made it easier to create new cards that have or interact with poisonous. Cards with 'can't be targeted by spells or hero powers' basically just say 'haha you can't kill me unless you have minions or a board clear'. Sure they also can't be buffed or healed by targeted effects but that's rarely relevant. the mechanic has never been all that fun or interesting, and making a whole bunch of cards with the effect would most likely be problematic since just one of them being overpowered would cause a lot of frustration. It's better to just have a few (below) average power level cards with the effect and maybe make a new one every so often.
Hearthstone Hypothesis - Why is Elusive Not a Keyword?
Blerrusive! Im trademarking it right now! :))
Dr. Boom's Lab
my preferred back
Anyone get packs from Twitch Grandmasters?
It´s on the frontpage. https://outof.cards/hearthstone/325-rest-of-hearthstone-grandmasters-season-2-to-have-twitch-drops
Hearthstone Hypothesis - Why is Elusive Not a Keyword?
I think RavenSunHS is correct below, but to really drill down to it, you can answer the question posed by the article pretty simply:
Because it doesn't need to be.
Keywords exist as a visual shorthand, and as a learning aide for new players. Blizzard is resistant to adding new keywords, and they should be resistant to it, because the more keywords there are the less either of those objectives is easily met. Enrage was removed as a keyword because there were so few enrage minions, yes - but more to the point, because a keyword that isn't covering a lot of cards isn't doing its job.
I think long-standing HS players will (I would guess) generally like to see this mechanic be given a keyword, be it Elusive or anything else. The reason, I would argue, is simply because it feels neat. It's a mechanic which has existed since the game's release, and which is seen on a card here or there throughout most expansions. To anyone who's played all that time, seen it come up again and again, it simply feels right to give it a shorthand.
But whether it feels right is a separate question to whether it is right. Making the effect a keyword simply wouldn't give any real benefit to the game - there aren't enough cards with the effect to justify it - and would just be a mental bandage for long-standing players. Not coincidentally, those long-standing players are also the ones who get the least real benefit from keywords.
So, in summary, I don't believe the mechanic should be given a keyword.
As a side note - if it were given a keyword, would Elusive be a good fit? Personally, I feel like there's better ones out there. Elusive simply doesn't feel like it's descriptive enough of the effect itself. Sure, the article cites Taunt as an example of a similarly unintuitive effect, but I feel like this is a little disingenuous - Taunt is what it is because it was implemented in Vanilla when Hearthstone placed a much greater focus on callbacks to WoW. Not only has the game moved on since then, but the development team has learned a lot of lessons in designing a smooth and easily picked-up card game. They know better now.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: CaptMcSwag#2403
Region: EU
Trade only?: Yes, you go first
Hearthstone Hypothesis - Why is Elusive Not a Keyword?
Not at all the main point here, but I do want to point out that the thematic reason for Frightened Flunky to have taunt is that it is based on Shaggy from Scooby-do, and hence is the bait. I.e. he is the minion put down specifically to draw the attention of enemies. It may not fit the word 'taunt' but it certainly fits the mechanic.
As for elusive, I completely agree that it is something they should just pick a word for it and open up design space with, regardless of whether it doesn't always fit thematically. If nothing else, elusive minions having a meaningful presence might make poisonous a keyword people actually use due to a lack of alternative hard removal options.
Hearthstone Hypothesis - Why is Elusive Not a Keyword?
I always thought of the flavor of "Elusive" basically meaning that it's hard to pin down or target. Sure, you can see it, but through either some form of dodge, absorption, or deflection, they are just impossible to hit effectively with magic. Taunt has a similar implied flavor that makes sense to me. It's not that they all literally taunt you, but through whatever reason-- imposing size blocking your way, really annoying and distracting, or simply shoved in your path as an obstacle by someone else-- they need to be dealt with first before you can focus on anyone else. I never took the terms too literally and have always just understood what unique version of the flavor they imply for that particular minion.
March of the Legion [Booster Expansion]
Thanks so much! Like I said in the intro portion of the write-up, there might be more, I was originally planning to do a Neutral set of Demon Hunters that were opposed to the invasion and would act sort of like a tribe, think Murlocs or Pirates, as well as add a few Legion aligned Legendaries that didn't quite fit in any class.
But I really just wanted to get it out there so I ended up putting the ideas on hold for the time being.
Hearthstone Hypothesis - Why is Elusive Not a Keyword?
Elusive - can't be targeted by Hero Power
Blurred - Can't be targeted by spells
Or use either for both
I think it's probably not keyworded because it's not worth the effort. They would have to keep in mind that keyword when doing all flavor text, remove it from existing flavor text (to avoid any confusion), and it would only benefit a few cards. We also don't know if it's something that they are trying to get around/phase out, since it is so unbalanced depending on the hero power...
Hearthstone Hypothesis - Why is Elusive Not a Keyword?
Generally the reason they choose certain mechanics to get a keyword is whether a keyword would accurately describe what it does. Stuff like Deathrattle, Battlecry, etc. all give you a pretty good idea of what it does, without needing to read what the mechanic is before. The best thing I can think of for that would be Magic-Proof or something along those lines, but even then that implies spells can’t damage it at all.
Most suggestions I hear for a name for it imply other things, not just not being able to target it with spells and hero powers.
That’s not to say I personally agree with this philosophy, it is one that could probably benefit from getting a keyword. Though that said, lately they have been changing how they do things, so maybe they’ll make it a keyword at some point in the near future