I don't see how changing Heart of Vir'naal from "Your Battlecries trigger twice this turn." to "Your next Battlecry trigger twice this turn" would actually solve the Galakrond Shaman problem. This quest is the best thing that's happened to shaman in a while and it would suck if that's what end up being nerfed instead of the Invoke cards or Galakrond himself.
The quest is just too powerful. Right now we can nerf galakrond, or shudderwock, or corrupt elementalist and get rid of this annoying deck. But later the quest will be used in another broken shaman deck. Sooner or later, we will have to nerf the quest because it is just too good and it will always be too good.
But how is it the problem if the best version of Galakrond Shaman doesn't even run it ?
I don't see how changing Heart of Vir'naal from "Your Battlecries trigger twice this turn." to "Your next Battlecry trigger twice this turn" would actually solve the Galakrond Shaman problem. This quest is the best thing that's happened to shaman in a while and it would suck if that's what end up being nerfed instead of the Invoke cards or Galakrond himself.
The quest is just too powerful. Right now we can nerf galakrond, or shudderwock, or corrupt elementalist and get rid of this annoying deck. But later the quest will be used in another broken shaman deck. Sooner or later, we will have to nerf the quest because it is just too good and it will always be too good.
How does your theory come in to play for the overwhelming rez priest in wild? Shaman up all you want, Wild is flooded with Rez Priest and I've only been able to consistently beat it with a combo deck that dies to aggro every single time.
You can also play secrets, Aggro Mage, Un'Goro Quest Mage, Togwaggle Druid, Treachery Warlock, Jade/1K Armor Druid, Mill Rogue, Odd Paladin, and yes, shaman.
I didn't look at all of the cards you linked, only the first few, but I wouldn't say that cards that summon minions for your opponent actually do anything to harm big priest. Adding more bad minions to their pool doesn't stop them. I play a lot of mage and shaman, which are the classes with the most transform abilities, and though I am able to Hex, or Polymorph the first 'big' minion to come onto the scene I am still overwhelmed by lifesteal/taunt minions that kill things when they die.
Aggro doesn't work too much as a counter to big/res priest anymore, they simply have too many ways to clear the board and heal up. With a mid-range list it really comes down to draw, whether or not the priest draws his big minions, and whether or not the midrange player plays a strong enough curve. And with control there has to be tons and tons of removal in addition to tons and tons of damage. Really the only reliable counter to big priest I can think of is an OTK deck, and it has to be able to go through taunts.
Big Priests aren't unbeatable, but they are as annoying as *word*. They are un-fun, triggering, and just all around frustrating. Most of their power comes from the plethora of heals and board clears that priest has access to in wild. Due to there not being a good AOE in the classic set, we get a lot of board clears in expansions, and they have all gathered in wild. I think the best way to nerf res priest would be to rework Eternal Servitude. A simple nerf to the mana cost wouldn't do, you would have to change the ability so that priests can't pick and choose which minion to resummon. All of the cards you mentioned above don't work as reliable counters to big priest simply because they have the ability to choose whether or not to resurrect the minion you tossed into their res pool.
Big Priest is a problem, it isn't any good to deny that, and while I am sure they won't address it in the next patch, I do hope they do something about it later.
What I am trying to make clear is that if other classes like Priest can do crazy stuff early game, it is unfair to remove the crazy stuff mage can do early game. And I would say, either all classes have a powerful 1-3 minion for 1 mana or we all don't have one. Especially now since mage has the worst quest of all, its turn one is a problem, mage is not that OP that he can always skip turn 1 and be cool.
hey guys, I just had a great idea, what if we gave all classes the same cards so that no matter which class you play you can have the exact same plays turns 1-4 and everyone can be the same!
not every class has to be the exact same power-level in all the same areas. some classes have strong early game cards, some classes have strong late game cards, some classes have lots of draw, some classes have lots of removal. it is just the way of things.
I personally despise any form of going infinite in the game (being it Deathstalker Rexxar's infinite value, Exodia Mage's infinite damage or SN1P-SN4P Warlock), while I like finite resources and I support each player's ability to use them at their best.
I don't think Mechwarper will be nerfed soon (it took years for Barnes), but for now I at least expect less Mech support in the next expansions
whats interesting to me is that Summoning Portal reads "minions cost (2) less but not less than (1)" but Reckless Experimenter has the 'can't be reduced below (1)' in her reminder text, why?
The problem is that your solution isn't simple or minimalist at all, it's effectively introducing a new mechanic "Starts at" to address a very very minor balance concern affecting 4 cards in the whole game. Whether or not such an intervention is even warranted is a whole separate question, but this solution is deeply inelegant if you ask me.
I dislike inner fire OTKs as much as the next guy but the problem is clearly with Divine Spirit and Inner Fire, not slightly beefier-than-average minions. High-rolls on effects that randomly summon, evolve or resurrect minions will always be a part of the game, and these aren't even the most egregious examples. Warlock is full of overstatted demons with negative battlecries that are great to get if you don't have to pay the full price.
Your post oozes with salt. Agree that Priest's core sets need a rework though.
You started a thread suggesting a nerf to the injured gang of all things. I'm not sure on what basis you're calling anyone else salty.
He directly borderline insulted me, suggesting that I want those nerfs because I lose a lot against Combo Priest which is absolutely baseless. I main CW with Silence tech and don't have a specific problem with this matchup in terms of winrate. My problem is the same as everyone else: it's unfair. Since IF won't be HoF'd, something else should be done.
Won't even answer this argument because he obviously just came here to pick a fight.
I'm amused at how far you're willing to go to avoid a substantive conversation. I "Borderline directly insulted' you? Buddy, not only is that a contradiction in terms, no such thing happened. When I said "I dislike inner fire OTKs as much as the next guy" that was (clearly!) meant to be a conciliatory statement, agreeing that there are problems with the deck you're trying to get nerfed. For you to try to turn that into an insult is some Olympian levels of mental gymnastics, so congrats on that feat.
Instead of scrambling for reasons and rationalisations for why I am the bad guy here maybe re-read our interaction without casting everything I say in the most uncharitable light. You might be surprised at who is picking a fight with whom.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you look back at the post where Cheese quoted both you and Avalon it looks like he got his responses backwards. I don't think he meant to call you salty, but rather he meant to call Avalon salty.
"Mage has the weakness of no taunts and board flooding"
I get what you are trying to say here, but this one card does not change the core of mages identity.
people are saying that that post from blizzard was dumb and inaccurate and they are pointing out only one or two cards that break the class identity. but it is okay that in a expansion a class gets a single card that does not follow the regular guidlines.
I am a where that this is not the point of the thread but I still feel obliged to point this out.
KANSASOld God Fanatic 17452912 PostsJoined 03/25/2019
Posted 5 years, 6 months ago
summoning seven 1/1 boombots would win you the game on the spot in most cases. after all, summon six boombots was the only reason bomb warrior was doable, and that required a lot of setup.
This is why everyone is asking to nerf the quest in addition to other cards such as Galakrond, the Tempest, Corrupt Elementalist, and Dragon's Pack.
The quest is just too powerful. Right now we can nerf galakrond, or shudderwock, or corrupt elementalist and get rid of this annoying deck. But later the quest will be used in another broken shaman deck. Sooner or later, we will have to nerf the quest because it is just too good and it will always be too good.
I didn't look at all of the cards you linked, only the first few, but I wouldn't say that cards that summon minions for your opponent actually do anything to harm big priest. Adding more bad minions to their pool doesn't stop them. I play a lot of mage and shaman, which are the classes with the most transform abilities, and though I am able to Hex, or Polymorph the first 'big' minion to come onto the scene I am still overwhelmed by lifesteal/taunt minions that kill things when they die.
Aggro doesn't work too much as a counter to big/res priest anymore, they simply have too many ways to clear the board and heal up. With a mid-range list it really comes down to draw, whether or not the priest draws his big minions, and whether or not the midrange player plays a strong enough curve. And with control there has to be tons and tons of removal in addition to tons and tons of damage. Really the only reliable counter to big priest I can think of is an OTK deck, and it has to be able to go through taunts.
Big Priests aren't unbeatable, but they are as annoying as *word*. They are un-fun, triggering, and just all around frustrating. Most of their power comes from the plethora of heals and board clears that priest has access to in wild. Due to there not being a good AOE in the classic set, we get a lot of board clears in expansions, and they have all gathered in wild. I think the best way to nerf res priest would be to rework Eternal Servitude. A simple nerf to the mana cost wouldn't do, you would have to change the ability so that priests can't pick and choose which minion to resummon. All of the cards you mentioned above don't work as reliable counters to big priest simply because they have the ability to choose whether or not to resurrect the minion you tossed into their res pool.
Big Priest is a problem, it isn't any good to deny that, and while I am sure they won't address it in the next patch, I do hope they do something about it later.
hey guys, I just had a great idea, what if we gave all classes the same cards so that no matter which class you play you can have the exact same plays turns 1-4 and everyone can be the same!
not every class has to be the exact same power-level in all the same areas. some classes have strong early game cards, some classes have strong late game cards, some classes have lots of draw, some classes have lots of removal. it is just the way of things.
whats interesting to me is that Summoning Portal reads "minions cost (2) less but not less than (1)" but Reckless Experimenter has the 'can't be reduced below (1)' in her reminder text, why?
I think the big problem is just that priest as a class never seems to be in a good spot.
either they have the best deck and everyone hates it, or they are in the worst spot and guess what? it is still annoying to play against.
Priest in general does not seem like a very healthy class, no matter where it is in the tier list.
If you look back at the post where Cheese quoted both you and Avalon it looks like he got his responses backwards. I don't think he meant to call you salty, but rather he meant to call Avalon salty.
I get what you are trying to say here, but this one card does not change the core of mages identity.
people are saying that that post from blizzard was dumb and inaccurate and they are pointing out only one or two cards that break the class identity. but it is okay that in a expansion a class gets a single card that does not follow the regular guidlines.
I am a where that this is not the point of the thread but I still feel obliged to point this out.
summoning seven 1/1 boombots would win you the game on the spot in most cases. after all, summon six boombots was the only reason bomb warrior was doable, and that required a lot of setup.