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The miniset releases roughly two months after the main expansion, so in next 2-3 weeks we should see the next miniset.
I really hate this meta, where it is only quests or decks trying to counter quests (yeah, aggro).
So I was thinking - what could the devs do to change the meta? Create even stronger cards than quests? Will there be mass nerfs?
What do you expect from the miniset?
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The miniset releases roughly two months after the main expansion, so in next 2-3 weeks we should see the next miniset.
I really hate this meta, where it is only quests or decks trying to counter quests (yeah, aggro).
So I was thinking - what could the devs do to change the meta? Create even stronger cards than quests? Will there be mass nerfs?
What do you expect from the miniset?
Maybe a card with battlecry prevent quest progress for 1 turn or one with a passive effect that prevents quest progress while on the board.
I'm hoping for it, because wild is pretty much only questlines atm.
As long as we're speculating:
- 3 mana 3/4 (cannot be damaged by spells)
- 2 mana 2/3 (battlecry: your opponent can only draw one card next turn)
- 4 mana 4/4 (battlecry: gain +4+4 if your opponent has played a quest this game)
- 3 mana 5/5 (battlecry: If your opponent has less than 8 cards in hand, he draws 2 cards)
Yes, Im not a fan of polarizing metas. At this point if they aren't nerfing the stormwind quest in general all I have hope for is counter cards. But as just like how Patches the Pirate survived the mountains of Golakka Crawlers, its but a band-aid to a gunshot wound.
I'm not hopeful for anything that makes quests worse from this next miniset. If anything, the miniset will probably give them even more tools to work with since it is connected directly with this expansion. More fuel to the fire. There is a decent chance that the borderline strong quests gain more support which will push them over the top.
I have been playing Quest Hunter and the deck is already decent. Any good damage spells or card draw might make it strong enough to become another oppressive force in the Standard meta. People playing Wild already know that it is pretty disgusting with the right support. Quest Rogue is less likely to become oppressive but it could become a very strong contender with some additional support. Quest Druid could become a lot stronger with the right support as well. Warrior is probably getting some buffs soon and depending on what is buffed and what the miniset brings it could easily become too strong. Quest Priest can't really overcome its own slow design so i don't have much hope for it. And Quest Paladin doesn't really need any support. It is bad because it's a board based strategy and those will continue to struggle as long as Quest Shaman, Warlock and Mage are still around.
When it comes to other archetypes, it is pretty hard to see anything rising to relevance. Token Hunter (or Rat Hunter, whatever) needs better token generation and a way of leveraging those into real threats. The 3-mana 1/6 is too weak for the job. Fire Mage probably can't compete against Spell Mage because Incanter's Flow and Refreshing Spring Water are just too strong. And HP Mage simply has no chance. Shadow Priest is about to lose Illucia (i'm 100% certain that she is getting killed in this next balance patch) but it will remain strong. Further support probably won't impact it that much. Other aggro decks don't really need any support (which doesn't mean they aren't getting any). And i don't really see any chance of slower strategies becoming viable again. Sorry for being too negative but i can't help it. I just don't see how things could change without the questlines being touched directly.
Hot take, major opinion, bit of a vent.
I actually think the mini-sets are adding too many cards and options to standard and it's becoming a problem.
The Standard Rotation was decided on when there were only about 400 cards in the game. 400 was the point where we were getting tired of seeing the same hyper optimized decks while new cards constantly had to power creep, even just a tiny bit, for anyone to consider buying the set or playing the cards
At the rate we're going, every start of year will start with over 645 cards in rotation, and end with 1020 (not including whatever they decide to do with Core each year), and something about that just seems wrong to me...
I imagine there will be spell school support from something similar to dungeoneers.
At the rate we're going, every start of year will start with over 645 cards in rotation, and end with 1020 (not including whatever they decide to do with Core each year), and something about that just seems wrong to me…
You didn't really explain why more cards being in standard is a bad thing other than it makes you feel wrong...
Quote From HuntardHuntard
At the rate we're going, every start of year will start with over 645 cards in rotation, and end with 1020 (not including whatever they decide to do with Core each year), and something about that just seems wrong to me…You didn't really explain why more cards being in standard is a bad thing other than it makes you feel wrong...
Balancing.
It's the entire reason Standard exists to begin with.
The more cards exist in potential play, the harder it becomes to make sure any new card that is created won't somehow accidentally create an unbalanced combo with some other card(s), or you don't accidentally give a class too much easy access to an ability that shouldn't be available so easily .
Take the Questlines for example. I feel the dev team didn't realize how easy they were to complete, that's why the rewards are 5 mana 7/7's on top of some of their game ending abilities. I especially feel this is true for mage and warlock. Warlock has way too many heals right now for that questline to be considered having a cost, and when you do complete it, the rest of the deck kills you in one turn almost every time, while gaining mana for each card played, while not actually spending mana on cards played to begin with, and I know you know what cards I'm talking about.
Quote From TriMay Take the Questlines for example. I feel the dev team didn't realize how easy they were to complete, that's why the rewards are 5 mana 7/7's on top of some of their game ending abilities. I especially feel this is true for mage and warlock.
Fact is that the devs build decks based on "fun" and much slower than the decks can be built. So for example in mage quest deck recipe they put minions. Silly devs.
Balancing.
The 5 mana 7/7 stat line is purely thematic. HS has a history of giving cards thematic stats and costs for the sake of looking nice (see 4/12 dragons, LoE and their SoU counterparts, etc). Anyways, I think that it is kind of pointless to not create content like the mini set because even if they don't the critical mass of impossible to balance cards will be reached and I doubt that 60(ish) cards will make that big of a difference getting there in the first place. I do think that you are right; eventually, this game will end up like Yugioh where there are so many cards it is impossible to balance correctly (though that is partly because of the standard format Yugioh uses).
Fact is that the devs build decks based on "fun" and much slower than the decks can be built. So for example in mage quest deck recipe they put minions. Silly devs.These decks are definitely made for the newer/more casual player to use/change/improve upon. I seriously doubt that in all their play testing the best deck they could come up with were those recipes… at least I hope so lol
Edit: I fucekd up the quotes
Wrong. The devs ruined the standard, wild, and battlegrounds meta so everyone would be so bored that they'd try out mercenaries. Actual galactic brain.
While I refuse to believe that they decided to fuck up every single game mode just to push the new toy, I remember that Battlegrounds' release was Doom in the Tomb's Evolve Shaman era.
Tech cards to counter or slow quests: unlikely. Unless they do something like “While this in play, Battlecry effects won’t trigger.” to prevent your opponent from playing the questline reward a turn. But even then how effective will it be? What’s the cost? The stat line? Too little health and it just get’s removed immediately, effectively stopping nothing. Could be a battlecry that all other battlecries won’t trigger until your next turn. At which point Rogue becomes the QL killer with Shadowsteps.
More likely approach is a nerf to the questlines that are problematic, and maybe further nerfs to problematic cards enabling the problematic QL decks. As to what those nerfs would be, not sure.
As for actual mini set speculation: I feel like they’ve telegraphed Stockades, especially with Dawngrasp’s QL art and theme. I think someone theorized a new Hogger card having potential as I believe he’s in the Heroic Stockades dungeon (right? Haven’t played WoW in the longest time.)
But overall I’m just expecting 35 more cards, a total of four new legendaries, one epic, and the rest a mix of rares and commons.
There is already an anti-battlecry tech card: Boompistol Bully. It rotated in April. If they added it to the core set then there would be at least a little bit of counterplay to the questlines. It would be very minor but delaying those rewards for a turn could help some decks finish off the quest players. I don't believe they will release a reprint of such a recent card.
No specific predictions, but I suspect the mini-expansion cards will either be mostly ineffectual or will actually make things worse.
If the next round of nerfs actually takes care of some problems, there's a chance the mini-set cards will be viable without being crazy OP, but I'm not holding my breath.
Every mini-set has busted wild so far and I find it really funny. I kind of want to see how far wild can be pushed...
Wait, my face is already dead?
Hmm. Who knows. Hopefully it's inspiring. They say they make expansions ahead of time.... So are these erasers to those pencils? I hope so. More likely it isnt so helpful. My life sucks.
OK, here's what I'd like to see:
4-Cost 4/5, Tradeable, Battlecry: Destroy your opponent's Quest. If you do, deal 8 damage to your Hero.
Well considering datamines show that the miniset is most likely going to be Deadmines (see article on main page), i'm guessing were going to see a new Edwin VanCleef or another Vanessa VanCleef. My guess is on Edwin VanCleef, because Vanessa VanCleef is already in the core set. To be honest, im not sure what edwins effect could be because there is so much potential. He would of course be a rogue card, but he could be a tech card, Find the Imposter support card, or a stealth Rogue card. (reminiscing of him having stealth in beta) Also he could push Pirate Rogue*, in a similar way as Wailing Caverns pushed Freeze Mage. Of course this is all based on the theory that the mini set actually is deadmines. If it is not deadmines, then it will probably be Stockades. Which i bet will push elemental shaman or elemental mage some more (thought that one of the bosses there was an elemental?) And we will get another Hogger.
Either way i expect a questline support card this set, similarly to Sky Gen'ral Kragg. But with how powerful questlines already are, i'm scared about any kind of questline support.. Actually if it the mini set isn't deadmines, but actually stockades: In b4 Hogger reprint: "If you played a quest this game, summon 2 2/2 gnolls with taunt". But still, any questline support is still scary.
*I didnt play much WoW but doesnt the deadmines dungeon end on a giant ship in the middle of a cave? Actually on Edwin VanCleefs art is a ship on the background, so i think i recall this correctly?
Seeing how the buffs targetted Beast Hunter specifically and they said the kept them subtle in anticipation of the mini set I have high hopes (since Wailing Caverns was a complete disappointment in that regard)
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