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Hearthstone | Posted by | 4 years, 9 months ago
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Why the lack of rogue heroes is so frustrating

Finding out the next pre-order hero skin will be Lady Katrana Prestor (aka Onyxia) for mage ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back, making me write a pretty salty comment about being annoyed it wasn't a rogue hero. Now, I'm the first to admit it is barely even a first world problem that the jpeg Blizz puts in a bundle isn't the one I wanted, and I wouldn't normally publicise my saltiness, so why did I care enough to do so this time?

There are a whole bunch of contributing factors that on their own wouldn't even be worth mentioning, but they nevertheless summed to one salty rogue main, so let's set them all out to see what really happened here.

* Note when I use the word 'devs' I don't mean the whole HS team, but only whoever has influence on the cosmetics.

An inexplicable imbalance

Show Spoiler

Let's start quantitative, since that's always the easiest to argue. As it stands, the number of unique characters each class has representing them as hero portraits is:

  • Demon Hunter: 3
  • Druid: 5
  • Hunter: 3
  • Mage: 5 (including Lady Prestor)
  • Paladin: 4
  • Priest: 4
  • Rogue: 2
  • Shaman: 6 (including Ragnaros)
  • Warlock: 4
  • Warrior: 5

In a game where all classes play an equal role, generally get an equal number of cards, and over time get a more or less equal amount of time in the spotlight, having that much variation between classes in anything is pretty weird. We can dismiss DH's low count by it only having been here for a year, but hunter and rogue having so few compared to several classes is tough to explain.

Certainly it's not a problem with limited class fantasy. For rogue especially, you've got rogues filling the role of thugs, thieves, crime lords, spies, assassins, ninjas, pirates and more. Certainly there's scope for overlap in that, but there's also a lot more variation in themes and flavour than, say, a mage who chooses to use a different spell school, or a paladin who… let's face it, there's not much variation within paladin since it's a niche combination of priest and warrior to begin with.

It is somewhat amusing then, that rogues are represented by Valeera (a female elf who's a lawful good spy, ex-gladiator and messenger between the Horde and Alliance) and Maiev (a female elf and lawful good warden/jailer (yep, she's technically not even a rogue)). Not exactly ticking many of the rogue profession boxes there. Love it or loathe it, the Cap'n Valeera skin is all we really have to start representing the less lawful side of the class whose name actively specifies they are outside of the law.

To be honest, getting Mathias Shaw wouldn't help tick many boxes either. We'd get a lawful good male human spy, so that's a hooray for gender and race diversity but doesn't add much new elsewhere. Someone like Gallywix or Lilian Voss would be better, but the ship already seems to have sailed for them.

All this makes it especially frustrating the rogue only has 2 heroes. Where possible I like to set my hero and card back to fit the themes of a deck, but the range of options in rogue is sorely lacking for that.

Anticipation for nothing

Show Spoiler

A more emotional aspect is simply that we are expecting a rogue hero, so when something else arrives instead it is disappointing. Partly we expect a rogue hero just out of the foolish belief that the numbers above can't go too uneven, surely?

The main reason to expect it, however, is that about a year ago the devs said they had the next rogue hero lined up and that it would be "legendary". So they actually told us one was coming! Granted, they said it probably wouldn't arrive as soon as we wanted it - which certainly wasn't a lie - but it being more than a whole year later is well beyond what anyone read into it. I first just assumed it wouldn't be in Scholomance.

The whole anticipation thing was amplified by there being so many good opportunities for rogue heroes lately:

  • Ashes of Outland could have had Akama
  • Scholomance Academy could have had Lilian Voss
    • OK, I fully accept Kel'Thuzad was great here, but still a bit of a slap in the face when he wasn't actually in the Scholo. dungeon/raid in WoW.
  • We got a half-baked Horseman Uther for Hallows End, which could easily have been our favourite zombie rogue Lilian
    • Or at least do it properly and give us the actual Headless Horseman not some Uther rip-off
  • Darkmoon Faire could have had Silas Darkmoon
    • Similar to K'T, N'Zoth is great but also getting in the way of the actual Darkmoon Faire character
  • Barrens… OK people had been asking for Hamuul Runetotem for ages, so that's fine
  • We could have got Gallywix on the Barrens Rewards Track in place of Firefang Rexxar, especially as there will be another fiery Rexxar next week!
  • Finally Lady Prestor sits in place of Mathias Shaw who everyone seemed pretty certain would finally arrive

How could you not expect one when there's always a good option? Any one of these not being the rogue alternative is fine. But all of them being something else at a time when the devs are well aware rogue has fallen behind is a bit of a joke and starts to look intentional. 

Wrapping up

So yes, it is the most minor thing that has no real impact when I'm actually playing the game. But I think my very last sentence contains the real heart of the problem: even if it is very unlikely Blizzard actually planned to screw rogue over with this, the fact it is beginning to look intentional is a real problem for players who have been waiting for a non-Valeera rogue hero for 4 years. It's eroding trust in the devs in a way that is just so silly and avoidable. And despite what it first looks like, it's not the frustrated rogue players who are being silly here because they actually have got the short end of the stick. No, it's the devs who could have simply commissioned a different bit of art at any time in those 4 years. No one would have been the slightest bit upset if Lady Prestor was Mathias Shaw instead, or if we never got Horseman Uther or Firefang Rexxar, so why keep avoiding rogue heroes?

The extension to this is that if we get a trio of Scabbs portraits in the Rewards Track, it won't really remedy the problem because it will look a lot like every class was going to get a trio of mercenary portraits this year anyway. You don't placate someone who's annoyed they have less than everyone else by giving everyone a treat.

So yeah, it is all a super minor psychological issue, but also so easily avoided that I'm still wagging a grumpy finger at Blizz and blaming them for needlessly creating it in the first place.

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  • Finding out the next pre-order hero skin will be Lady Katrana Prestor (aka Onyxia) for mage ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back, making me write a pretty salty comment about being annoyed it wasn't a rogue hero. Now, I'm the first to admit it is barely even a first world problem that the jpeg Blizz puts in a bundle isn't the one I wanted, and I wouldn't normally publicise my saltiness, so why did I care enough to do so this time?

    There are a whole bunch of contributing factors that on their own wouldn't even be worth mentioning, but they nevertheless summed to one salty rogue main, so let's set them all out to see what really happened here.

    * Note when I use the word 'devs' I don't mean the whole HS team, but only whoever has influence on the cosmetics.

    An inexplicable imbalance

    Show Spoiler

    Let's start quantitative, since that's always the easiest to argue. As it stands, the number of unique characters each class has representing them as hero portraits is:

    • Demon Hunter: 3
    • Druid: 5
    • Hunter: 3
    • Mage: 5 (including Lady Prestor)
    • Paladin: 4
    • Priest: 4
    • Rogue: 2
    • Shaman: 6 (including Ragnaros)
    • Warlock: 4
    • Warrior: 5

    In a game where all classes play an equal role, generally get an equal number of cards, and over time get a more or less equal amount of time in the spotlight, having that much variation between classes in anything is pretty weird. We can dismiss DH's low count by it only having been here for a year, but hunter and rogue having so few compared to several classes is tough to explain.

    Certainly it's not a problem with limited class fantasy. For rogue especially, you've got rogues filling the role of thugs, thieves, crime lords, spies, assassins, ninjas, pirates and more. Certainly there's scope for overlap in that, but there's also a lot more variation in themes and flavour than, say, a mage who chooses to use a different spell school, or a paladin who… let's face it, there's not much variation within paladin since it's a niche combination of priest and warrior to begin with.

    It is somewhat amusing then, that rogues are represented by Valeera (a female elf who's a lawful good spy, ex-gladiator and messenger between the Horde and Alliance) and Maiev (a female elf and lawful good warden/jailer (yep, she's technically not even a rogue)). Not exactly ticking many of the rogue profession boxes there. Love it or loathe it, the Cap'n Valeera skin is all we really have to start representing the less lawful side of the class whose name actively specifies they are outside of the law.

    To be honest, getting Mathias Shaw wouldn't help tick many boxes either. We'd get a lawful good male human spy, so that's a hooray for gender and race diversity but doesn't add much new elsewhere. Someone like Gallywix or Lilian Voss would be better, but the ship already seems to have sailed for them.

    All this makes it especially frustrating the rogue only has 2 heroes. Where possible I like to set my hero and card back to fit the themes of a deck, but the range of options in rogue is sorely lacking for that.

    Anticipation for nothing

    Show Spoiler

    A more emotional aspect is simply that we are expecting a rogue hero, so when something else arrives instead it is disappointing. Partly we expect a rogue hero just out of the foolish belief that the numbers above can't go too uneven, surely?

    The main reason to expect it, however, is that about a year ago the devs said they had the next rogue hero lined up and that it would be "legendary". So they actually told us one was coming! Granted, they said it probably wouldn't arrive as soon as we wanted it - which certainly wasn't a lie - but it being more than a whole year later is well beyond what anyone read into it. I first just assumed it wouldn't be in Scholomance.

    The whole anticipation thing was amplified by there being so many good opportunities for rogue heroes lately:

    • Ashes of Outland could have had Akama
    • Scholomance Academy could have had Lilian Voss
      • OK, I fully accept Kel'Thuzad was great here, but still a bit of a slap in the face when he wasn't actually in the Scholo. dungeon/raid in WoW.
    • We got a half-baked Horseman Uther for Hallows End, which could easily have been our favourite zombie rogue Lilian
      • Or at least do it properly and give us the actual Headless Horseman not some Uther rip-off
    • Darkmoon Faire could have had Silas Darkmoon
      • Similar to K'T, N'Zoth is great but also getting in the way of the actual Darkmoon Faire character
    • Barrens… OK people had been asking for Hamuul Runetotem for ages, so that's fine
    • We could have got Gallywix on the Barrens Rewards Track in place of Firefang Rexxar, especially as there will be another fiery Rexxar next week!
    • Finally Lady Prestor sits in place of Mathias Shaw who everyone seemed pretty certain would finally arrive

    How could you not expect one when there's always a good option? Any one of these not being the rogue alternative is fine. But all of them being something else at a time when the devs are well aware rogue has fallen behind is a bit of a joke and starts to look intentional. 

    Wrapping up

    So yes, it is the most minor thing that has no real impact when I'm actually playing the game. But I think my very last sentence contains the real heart of the problem: even if it is very unlikely Blizzard actually planned to screw rogue over with this, the fact it is beginning to look intentional is a real problem for players who have been waiting for a non-Valeera rogue hero for 4 years. It's eroding trust in the devs in a way that is just so silly and avoidable. And despite what it first looks like, it's not the frustrated rogue players who are being silly here because they actually have got the short end of the stick. No, it's the devs who could have simply commissioned a different bit of art at any time in those 4 years. No one would have been the slightest bit upset if Lady Prestor was Mathias Shaw instead, or if we never got Horseman Uther or Firefang Rexxar, so why keep avoiding rogue heroes?

    The extension to this is that if we get a trio of Scabbs portraits in the Rewards Track, it won't really remedy the problem because it will look a lot like every class was going to get a trio of mercenary portraits this year anyway. You don't placate someone who's annoyed they have less than everyone else by giving everyone a treat.

    So yeah, it is all a super minor psychological issue, but also so easily avoided that I'm still wagging a grumpy finger at Blizz and blaming them for needlessly creating it in the first place.

  • I don't like playing the Rogue, but...yeah. It's kinda stupid at this point.

    Friendly

  • I think its because team5 wanted Prestor to be the preorder skin (because she's Onyxia so its more marketable, probably) and really the only class Prestor can be is either mage or warlock, and since Nzoth got warlock last time I guess for this reason we get another (shitty looking) mage skin?

    There's always the chance we see rogue skins later down the line as I dont think they'll pass the chance of making up something with Mathias Shaw, or anything else related to the SI7 in an Alliance theme expansion.

    Friendly
    • Quote From dapperdog

      I think its because team5 wanted Prestor to be the preorder skin (because she's Onyxia so its more marketable, probably)

      It's not marketability, it's plot relevance. Prestor seems to be a central character to this set, getting name-dropped by Scabbs in Book of Mercenaries and appearing in the cinematic. From that angle it makes sense.

      On the bright side, it's entirely possible that the third expansion's portrait will be Garona Halforcen. She had a weird cameo as the final boss in Xyrella's chapter, and (assuming the set is Alterac Valley) I don't think there's very many notable characters there unless they want to really piss people off and choose Drek'thar.

      • Quote From MurlocAggroB
        On the bright side, it's entirely possible that the third expansion's portrait will be Garona Halforcen. She had a weird cameo as the final boss in Xyrella's chapter, and (assuming the set is Alterac Valley) I don't think there's very many notable characters there unless they want to really piss people off and choose Drek'thar.

        Good catch. Lore-wise, I guess Garona is being controlled by Cho'gall and the Twilight's Hammer at this time*, so maybe they're going to be dragged into it too? That's starting to pull in a lot of parties trying to get the naaru shards, so they might ret-con it for HS so Onyxia's controlling Garona (although that opens up so many extra questions...). Either way, I'm beginning to think the 3rd expansion will be a lot more messy than just Horde vs Alliance, with more important lore characters than just Drek'thar there. At least I hope so. No skin would be worse than another orc shaman at this point.

        * Going by the timeline in the comics which cover the story of Valeera, Varian and Broll dealing with Onyxia, and later Cho'gall. (See Valeera's Book of Heroes.) The timeline in HS looks to be roughly the same, with only minor tweaks. Note it is different to in-game WoW, primarily by when Onyxia is killed relative to the Dark Portal reopening.

         

  • Quote From dapperdog

    I think its because team5 wanted Prestor to be the preorder skin (because she's Onyxia so its more marketable, probably) and really the only class Prestor can be is either mage or warlock, and since Nzoth got warlock last time I guess for this reason we get another (shitty looking) mage skin?

    There's always the chance we see rogue skins later down the line as I dont think they'll pass the chance of making up something with Mathias Shaw, or anything else related to the SI7 in an Alliance theme expansion.

    I'm still holding out hope Shaw will be on the Rewards Track, but I'm not optimistic. I suspect they'll put Scabbs in it and pretend he counts.

    As for Onyxia being more marketable, that's up for debate. She's more recognisable to players with limited knowledge of the Warcraft universe perhaps, but those players would have recognised Kazakus a thousand times better than Hamuul Runetotem, yet they pandered to the players who know the lore better there despite Hamuul having basically nothing to do with the Barrens expansion. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if ANY rogue hero was more interesting to most players than another mage hero at the moment, especially when that mage is in human female form.

    More of a hot take: would Prestor really be that ill-fitting as a rogue? Her whole thing is that she infiltrated Stormwind's elite, and any magic she used in the process was subtle mind manipulation (which would fall under priest more than mage or warlock). For the most part she got to that position through non-magical means, and played the role of both an assassin (on Varian) and a crime lord (commanding black dragons in the city guards,  indirectly setting up the Defias brotherhood, and hiring multiple assassins to kill Lo'gosh (aka strong-willed Varian)).

    The reason the rogue fantasy is so broad is that it is built on approaches to solving problems (i.e. use of stealth, agility, charm and trickery, along with a willingness to make morally questionable choices), rather than the tools used to do that. I know WoW has a fairly limited view of a rogue, but plenty of hero portraits have ignored that in other classes, so I don't really care if a rogue is using daggers, glaives, swords, bows, fists or magic so long as their role is very rogue-ish, and Prestor's role most certainly is. 

    • Quote From AngryShuckie
       

      More of a hot take: would Prestor really be that ill-fitting as a rogue? Her whole thing is that she infiltrated Stormwind's elite, and any magic she used in the process was subtle mind manipulation (which would fall under priest more than mage or warlock). For the most part she got to that position through non-magical means, and played the role of both an assassin (on Varian) and a crime lord (commanding black dragons in the city guards,  indirectly setting up the Defias brotherhood, and hiring multiple assassins to kill Lo'gosh (aka strong-willed Varian)).

      The reason the rogue fantasy is so broad is that it is built on approaches to solving problems (i.e. use of stealth, agility, charm and trickery, along with a willingness to make morally questionable choices), rather than the tools used to do that. I know WoW has a fairly limited view of a rogue, but plenty of hero portraits have ignored that in other classes, so I don't really care if a rogue is using daggers, glaives, swords, bows, fists or magic so long as their role is very rogue-ish, and Prestor's role most certainly is. 

      I have to agree with this. I don't think Prestor would have any problems being a rogue. Aside from the reasons you've mentioned, there's also a slew of fan arts depicting her in various armors themed on her true form as Onyxia, some of which nicely fits the fantasy of a rogue. Would be really awesome if Team 5 went with those routes. In fact, I was actually hoping for that after seeing those fan artworks. Like these for examples.

      I'm currently fine with her current portrait as I do like her card back and Hero Tray design. And she's also a mega-villain alt hero that actually tickled my fancy since Mecha-Jaraxxus. But yeah, I will also agree that she definitely could've been so much better than this too.

       As for the current topic, yeah it definitely would be great to have more actual rogue alt hero portraits. As someone who played a lot of rogue. I was one of those waiting for a possible forsaken Lilian Voss alt portrait during the era of Scholomance and well, that didn't happen.

      I'm aware that Scabbs might be coming but (This might be a Hot Take of mine) - I don't consider Alternate Hero Portraits to be complete without the Hero Tray. Sure, some portrait arts are amazing pieces but, in my opinion, that has to be combined with unique animations, emotes and trays to give the complete experience which is what I'm looking for in a new alt hero portrait. I'm not saying that these alt-version of heroes shouldn't exist, they certainly are nice but these portraits aren't something I'd personally use permanently or in the long run. 

      So yeah, I'm really hoping to see at least another alt hero rogue portraits (that not Maiev) having all the mentioned qualities.

  • I would even love to have an Anub'arak skin for rogue, even it isn't really a rogue. Something different than valeera please ! Ok, reward track skins of Valeera is lovely but i don't mind some change after those years. Maiev was released on Year of the Mammoth and it passed Mammoth, Raven and Dragon and now we are middle of Phoenix and she was a warden, lol.

    3,5 years without an alternate character for rogue. I will call this, weird. nothing more, nothing less.

    Maybe some Ethereal hero or a Kobold maybe? Even Wrathion might fit to the role but an undead would be great but best fit would be Trade Prince Gallywix for sure.

    And after those years, Where is Garona Portait Blizzard ?

    Why do Blizzard forget about rogue mains i really can't get it.

    • Quote From Almaniarra

      I would even love to have an Anub'arak skin for rogue, even it isn't really a rogue. Something different than valeera please ! Ok, reward track skins of Valeera is lovely but i don't mind some change after those years. Maiev was released on Year of the Mammoth and it passed Mammoth, Raven and Dragon and now we are middle of Phoenix and she was a warden, lol.

      3,5 years without an alternate character for rogue. I will call this, weird. nothing more, nothing less.

      Maybe some Ethereal hero or a Kobold maybe? Even Wrathion might fit to the role but an undead would be great but best fit would be Trade Prince Gallywix for sure.

      And after those years, Where is Garona Portait Blizzard ?

      Why do Blizzard forget about rogue mains i really can't get it.

      Phoenix was last year. We're now in the Year of the Gryphon, so it's even worse!

      Looking back at past rogue legendaries reveals just how easy it would be for them to quickly catch rogue up in a satisfying way. Gallywix, Lilian, Togwaggle and Hooktusk all seem like a waste not to have made into hero portraits (Hooktusk largely because we already know how brilliant her emotes were in Rumble Run).

      As you said, Anub'arak is a solid oddball choice and wouldn't be the first skin that is quite distant from the class they're in. Meanwhile Myra would be a welcome addition as a master of poisons, and arguments can easily be made in favour of Aya, Akama, Edwin, Shaku and Wrathion too.

      Add in major rogues from Warcraft lore yet to make it into HS, such as Garona and Shaw, and it really is baffling that they can't find a time to add them when there is no issue adding the likes of Horseman Uther, Firefang Rexxar and Annhylde. (I have nothing against Annhylde. She's just a good example of where these portraits can appear without needing any link to expansions. I guess her link was Shadowlands in WoW, but that's tenuous since she doesn't actually appear there as far as I know.)

  • I would love for more non human/elf/orc skins of any class. The game has so many races and we only get humans with big teeth and humans with long ears and eyebrows. Where are the Worgen, Undead, maybe even gnomes/goblins? They made an Onyxya skin but she looks like Jaina with hair dye! Could have been first real Dragon skin.

    They already have heroes from the adventures fully voiced and animated and all. Why not sell them? It's so frustrating, could be literally easy money and a great benefit to players, but they don't do it.

  • the fire festival rexxar right after the fire whatever rexxar really speaks volumes on the level of planning

  • There will be up to three Scabbs Portaits in the reward track. ( I assume)

    • Quote From aposteljoe

      There will be up to three Scabbs Portaits in the reward track. ( I assume)

      Very possibly, and if we get the chef art in the 'meet the mercenaries' post (https://playhearthstone.com/en-gb/news/23658052) then that's a double thumbs up.

      But for me personally Scabbs doesn't solve the underlying issue. On his own, he is just another instance of when rogue gets a skin because it's part of a series that covers every class, and doesn't offer any evidence that the devs want to address the imbalance across the classes. 

  • I've been wanting a new Rogue portrait that's not Valeera and Maeiv for what feels like YEARS now.

    The other classes get all these characters that adds flavor to your decks when playing but Rogue only has two characters.

    Valeera certainly gets new lines of dialogue with her new portraits but it just feels like Valeera in a new dress. .

    I'd like Hearthstone to explore the other side of Rogues - the pirates, the greedy goblins, the shadowy warriors.

    Characters like Gallywix, Mathais Shaw, Taran Zhu, Edwin Van Cleef or even Lillian Voss.

     

  • Devs: "Next Expansion, we'll have a unique hero portrait like never before."

    Player: "Rogue Hero this time, right?"

    Devs: *confused face*

    Player: "Rogue Hero this time, right??"

  • I think Mathias Shaw will be the rogue legendary

    • Quote From Ticomon

      I think Mathias Shaw will be the rogue legendary

      That's very likely. If not the devs have gone positively loopy!

      He still could have been made into a hero portrait though...

  • One thing that miffed me to no end regarding hero portraits was the they made a whole bunch of fully functional ones for the Year of the Dragon PvE content and then......... just never used them for anything else. Theres good money i'd be 100% willing to spend on getting to take Ol' Barkeye or Rakanishu into the ladder 

    • Quote From 500cats

      One thing that miffed me to no end regarding hero portraits was the they made a whole bunch of fully functional ones for the Year of the Dragon PvE content and then......... just never used them for anything else. Theres good money i'd be 100% willing to spend on getting to take Ol' Barkeye or Rakanishu into the ladder 

      Didn't Iksar recently say they were considering doing this? If so, I'd expect them to start with the Witchwood heroes because there's only 4 of them so it's not such a big jump from the sizes of bundles of past portraits, and because they were the first different characters we got to use in solo content (ignoring things like the White King in Karazhan).

      • Quote From AngryShuckie

        If so, I'd expect them to start with the Witchwood heroes because there's only 4 of them

        I doubt the Witchwood heroes would get ladder portraits, since they use the same art as the actual minions.

        • Quote From MurlocAggroB
          Quote From AngryShuckie

          If so, I'd expect them to start with the Witchwood heroes because there's only 4 of them

          I doubt the Witchwood heroes would get ladder portraits, since they use the same art as the actual minions.

          True, but I'm not sure that matters much now those cards are in Wild, and only Tess really gets used there. If they insist on having different artwork, they can just commission some. 500cats' point that they are fully voiced stands, so it's still less effort than other skins would be.

  • Agreed. Stormwind has so many good characters that would make perfect rogues heroes like Mathias Shaw or Elling Trias (who appears twice in the trailer!) and instead we get Katrana Prestor who should obviously have been a Legendary instead. And as a mage hero on top of what. Just...why?