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Hearthstone | Posted by | 4 years, 11 months ago
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Comparing APM Mage to Tiller Decks

I am trying to figure out why APM Mage is not getting nerfed but the Tiller otk decks got nerfed in only a week. Can anyone share their thoughts on what key differences make APM Mage fine for the meta as opposed to Tiller decks, or of any other similarities?

Here are the similarities I see so far:

Both can combo as early as turn 4 but go off consistently by about turn 7

Both are countered by certain hunter secrets

Both are countered by certain mage secrets

Both are countered by hyper aggro decks

Both deal about 60 damage maximum

Dirty rat effect needs to be duplicated or the deck can still combo due to redundancy in combo pieces

Both are delayed by Loatheb

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  • I am trying to figure out why APM Mage is not getting nerfed but the Tiller otk decks got nerfed in only a week. Can anyone share their thoughts on what key differences make APM Mage fine for the meta as opposed to Tiller decks, or of any other similarities?

    Here are the similarities I see so far:

    Both can combo as early as turn 4 but go off consistently by about turn 7

    Both are countered by certain hunter secrets

    Both are countered by certain mage secrets

    Both are countered by hyper aggro decks

    Both deal about 60 damage maximum

    Dirty rat effect needs to be duplicated or the deck can still combo due to redundancy in combo pieces

    Both are delayed by Loatheb

  • One is more hated than the other perhaps.

    Its no secret that team5 simply ignores wild for the most part. Tiller decks were so prominent in reddit for example, that I barely had a day that I don't see some redneck undead farmer making into the memes or being shat on. APM mage on the other hand is barely ever mentioned.

    Also Tiller decks only need 3 cards to do the combo, APM mage is practically a whole deck. That means tiller decks often have a second win condition whereas APM mage dies off if their train is disrupted.

    Friendly

  • I suspect it is partly because Sorcerer's Apprentice is involved, and everyone knows the devs don't want to nerf her despite her being the root cause of countess problems over the years. I think they dug themselves a hole when they made Exodia mage a real thing, because now they cannot meaningfully change the card without killing all variants of that archetype and angering all its fans.

    Other than Apprentice, you could look at Refreshing Spring Water, which deserves to be toned down, but I don't think it would really solve the APM mage problem. However they change it, it will still be efficient for a deck that has 25 spells, so mage will still be above the critical mass of efficient card draw that is allowing APM mage to function.

  • This is mainly because the HS team has certain ideals regarding cards, like “oh, this is supposed to be a control card” etc. 

    Hysteria in their mind is meant to be a “removal” tool, so when it was being used in conjunction with Wretched Tiller, a card that is supposed to be “pack filler” to make a combo deck, they were quick to convert it to its current form where it is mainly used as a control tool.

    Now, about Apprentice, to the HS team, they believe in “letting players play what they love” in wild, and Apprentice is quite clearly a combo card being used in a combo style that has existed forever. As such, they really couldn’t care less about it, both with it being a Wild card and something that ticks all of their self-determinedboxes.

    Maybe they also have some hidden data they do not wish to share on its actual winrate, similar to Tickatus, it can feel incredibly polarizing in some cases, but more often than not it probably just flops. (Which I find hard to believe, but I’m just throwing it out there)

    • Way back it wasn't a combo card. It got played in Tempo Mage as a tempo card but that's about it. And, personally, I would like it to go back to it just being a tempo card and nothing else, but I also agree with dapperdog, that if the gameplay of APM Mage fails there is no plan B, which is notably different compared to the Tiller combo.

      And yes, it's a non-issue in Standard right now. The card is not in Standard so how could it be?