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Hearthstone | Posted by | 6 years, 8 months ago
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Archmage Vargoth and Time Warp

I'll probably just get people telling me to go to the salt thread. But honestly, I'm not salty. I just want to know why Blizzard thinks it's healthy and fun for the game to have Archmage Vargoth casting Time Warp giving mage 3 turns in a row? Guess they feel Time Warp is already too much of an "I win" card for the extra 3rd turn to matter? This opens up mage to not need Archmage Antonidas to get the kill. A full board of decent minions will kill anyone in 3 turns. I really hope they change this interaction to not give 3 turns in a row before it ends up becoming a major problem.

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  • I'll probably just get people telling me to go to the salt thread. But honestly, I'm not salty. I just want to know why Blizzard thinks it's healthy and fun for the game to have Archmage Vargoth casting Time Warp giving mage 3 turns in a row? Guess they feel Time Warp is already too much of an "I win" card for the extra 3rd turn to matter? This opens up mage to not need Archmage Antonidas to get the kill. A full board of decent minions will kill anyone in 3 turns. I really hope they change this interaction to not give 3 turns in a row before it ends up becoming a major problem.

  • This is in Wild, right? Aren't there like a shit ton of broken/otk combos?

    Is it possible to reliably draw Vargoth every time? Because that's when the word 'broken' comes in.

  • It's just another combo deck that requires some specific condition to be achieved: he needs to draw all the cards, get the quest completed, setup a board and then close the match.

    It may also become tricky to complete the quest if you're unlucky with the random spells you generate, because they may be useless.

    Imho, quest Mage is not problematic at all actually but as any other combo it may become frustrating to play against if he get perfect draws and lucky extra spells.

  • So its kind of a OTK deck having an extra win condition, instead of Antonidas+ Sorcerer Apprentices you have Vargoth and some board.

    And one of your 3 turns will be playing vargoth and the spell and having one mana left for damage. So you need to have at least ((X -4)/ 3) attack on board where X = life total of opponent when you play Vargoth, for X = 30 your board needs to have attack total of board > 8. So that means opponent gave you a board with 9 attack after completion of quest etc. Of course, if X is much less, requirement will drop very fast, and if you are facing an opponent with armor there might even not be an OTK.

  • It's not worse than Mecha'thun Warlock. They can kill you before turn-10, and you can do nothing except trying and killing them first.

    Tbh, i also think Archmage Vargoth is broken, but because of Big Priest, not in Quest Mage, where he's just a winmore card in most cases.

    • Quote From RavenSunHS

      Tbh, i also think Archmage Vargoth is broken, but because of Big Priest, not in Quest Mage, where he's just a winmore card in most cases.

      This, usually Quest mage has already won at that point without needing Vargoth. 

      While I can understand that this might be unfun to be the victim of, it isn't a particularly good or consistent combo. Most lists don't run Vargoth because he's a dead card in far too many matchups. 

  • No, it's not, it's typical wild thing, most broken in wild - Odd Pala, who supress all decks with broken constantly face pushing with no cost andhis brother aggro paly with broken turn 3 molten giants

  • "That was wild!"... "A wild miscalculation..."

  • Nothing that happens on turn 9 in wild can be considered broken. Most games end before then anyway.

    • Quote From scout

      Nothing that happens on turn 9 in wild can be considered broken. Most games end before then anyway.

      Turn 9? Quest Cyclone Mage? Do u play wild? I do and they always get the quest done by turn 5 and kill u the next turn. And yeah ive even see them pulling vargoth on turn 7 and i remember thinking i was safe from lethal and with lethal in hand and laugh when he used vargoth with quest cause i thought it wouldn't give them 2 extra turns. Well it did and so he killed me in those 2 extra turns .

      Ive played odd paladin vs this cancer and lost all matches and one i lost on turn 3. He completed the quest and on turn 4 he just went to town.  

      Ppl here saying they neef to draw their deck? Thats exodia mage. Cyclone arcane giants quest finishes the quest early as fuck and if they have either giants or those flame wakers its gg

      • Quote From Marega
        Quote From scout

        Nothing that happens on turn 9 in wild can be considered broken. Most games end before then anyway.

        Turn 9? Quest Cyclone Mage? Do u play wild? I do and they always get the quest done by turn 5 and kill u the next turn. And yeah ive even see them pulling vargoth on turn 7 and i remember thinking i was safe from lethal and with lethal in hand and laugh when he used vargoth with quest cause i thought it wouldn't give them 2 extra turns. Well it did and so he killed me in those 2 extra turns .

        Ive played odd paladin vs this cancer and lost all matches and one i lost on turn 3. He completed the quest and on turn 4 he just went to town.  

        Ppl here saying they neef to draw their deck? Thats exodia mage. Cyclone arcane giants quest finishes the quest early as fuck and if they have either giants or those flame wakers its gg

        This. I played a Quest-cyclone mage this morning that played like 7 cards on turn 2 and had a giant out the next turn. The problem is too many cheap sells in recent expansions combined with spell-cost reducers. Playing 6-7 free cards in a turn is ridiculous, and cheap mage spells are good. At least Rogue has to wait until turn 6 to pull off these shenanigans, and they only have two (nerfed) preps for reduction. They need to nerf Sorcerer's Apprentice so it only reduced the first spell cast each turn. 

  • I play this deck a lot, and I would not call it broken, it is not very consistent. You need to finish the quest on turn 8, and hold Archmage Vargoth, Time Warp and two Arcane Giants that are tuned to 0 mana (cast 11 spells by turn 8) to perform the combo effectively. Or have Flamewakers and bunch of cheap spells instead of Arcane Giants. And you still need to be alive at that point.

  • I've been playing against Quest Mage all morning I want to shoot myself!  I don't usually see Vargoth in the decks though.  One thing they could do to fix the problem at least for now is not to include any current expansions in Wild.   Another thing that could fix the problem is if everyone stopped playing the same F-ing decks all the time!  It's so annoying playing against the same thing game after game.   And don't get me started on OTK decks lol.

  • The combo really isn't problematic. All it does is allow you a different way to combo the opponent done with a less tired combo that may require more mana than 2 turns allows.

    Also consider that if you are in the position where any type of otk mage is using Time Warp against you then you already lost the game at that point anyway, regardless of whether Vargoth existed as a card or not. For example, I use a Vargoth + Time Warp for Maly OTK. However, say Vargoth was completely deleted from the game. Okay, then Quest Mages would just switch to the Antonidas or Giants + Alex combo and you'd be dead when they cast Time Warp against you anyway. The extra 3rd turn is completely cosmetic in that allows you a different combo to win with. In the end you lose to any deck when you get Time Warp cast against you.

  • Is it really that much easier to combo Time Warp with Vargoth + win condition(s) than the traditional win conditions of time warp decks? Sure, it improves consistency to add an alternate win condition, but these decks are typically so tightly stretched that you're sacrificing consistency in card draw or defense to include it.

    • Quote From AliRadicali

      Is it really that much easier to combo Time Warp with Vargoth + win condition(s) than the traditional win conditions of time warp decks? Sure, it improves consistency to add an alternate win condition, but these decks are typically so tightly stretched that you're sacrificing consistency in card draw or defense to include it.

      It isn't. Vargoth is rarely, if ever, used in mage combo decks.

  • First off, yes the Salt Thread would have been the right choice

    second, i personaly think this is not a big problem. In Wild there are lots of different OTK`s and Combos that can finish you off before Vargoth can cast a Time Warp. I personaly do not play wild anymore, but the people i know and sometimes watch on stream etc. barely play against a Mage that uses Vargoth ...