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Hearthstone | Posted by | 3 years ago
Fan Creations

Death Was Merely A Set Back - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

Competition Theme: Death Was Merely A Set Back

Death Knight was only added into the game a few months ago, in a game that has 9 years of history under its belt. It has a lot of catching up to do.

  • Design a Death Knight card for an expansion before March of the Lich King.
    • The card should fit the set mechanically. No Rush before The Witchwood, or spell school effects before Forged in the Barrens, etc.
      • Exception: You are allowed to use Reborn in any set from Saviors of Uldum onwards, but you are not allowed to use it for any set before then.
      • You are still allowed to utilize various attributes exclusive to the class (such as Corpses or Runes) regardless of what set it is in.
    • Be mindful of rarity adjudications in the old adventures: they never had any class Epics or Legendaries.

Demonxz95 has asked us to dig up the past, amidst the several piles of corpses lying on the ground, in search for Death Knights from way back when.

As always, we can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

Competition Phases

Here are the phases of this card design competition

  • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Mar 6 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sat, Mar 11 17:00 EST (GMT -0500)
  • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Mar 11 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sun, Mar 12 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Mar 12 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Mar 13 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

Discussion Thread Rules

No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

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  • Competition Theme: Death Was Merely A Set Back

    Death Knight was only added into the game a few months ago, in a game that has 9 years of history under its belt. It has a lot of catching up to do.

    • Design a Death Knight card for an expansion before March of the Lich King.
      • The card should fit the set mechanically. No Rush before The Witchwood, or spell school effects before Forged in the Barrens, etc.
        • Exception: You are allowed to use Reborn in any set from Saviors of Uldum onwards, but you are not allowed to use it for any set before then.
        • You are still allowed to utilize various attributes exclusive to the class (such as Corpses or Runes) regardless of what set it is in.
      • Be mindful of rarity adjudications in the old adventures: they never had any class Epics or Legendaries.

    Demonxz95 has asked us to dig up the past, amidst the several piles of corpses lying on the ground, in search for Death Knights from way back when.

    As always, we can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Mar 6 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sat, Mar 11 17:00 EST (GMT -0500)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Mar 11 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sun, Mar 12 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Mar 12 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Mar 13 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

    Friendly Staff

  • My hunger, never-ending. My will, everlasting!

    Pretty happy with this. The Battlecry functions as you might expect, adding their Health to your hero. That's why it's not enemy-only: it would be blatantly better than the Priest's Galakrond...although they arguably have the better Hero Power, so maybe it would balance out. Like most of the Galakronds, it upgrades from 1 to 2 to 4 random minions eaten.

    Friendly

  • I'm really excited to see what in particular you all come up with.

    Little note is that despite the fact that Ghoul Charge states that the Ghoul dies at the end of "turn", the Frail Ghoul itself states that it dies at the end of "your turn" and the effects of Deathrider Strik reflects this. Under normal circumstances, this doesn't mean anything currently, but with Strik's effect applying on Deathrattle, it becomes pretty important.

    Friendly Staff

  • Defiling Accusation is a bit of an obvious design, but I think it works pretty well as part of the Accusation cycle. Not sure if it works better as a Blood card (I think it makes more sense mechanically) or as an Unholy one (works better with the flavor of defiling).

    Recycling Bin is probably my favorite of the two, but I struggle to find a power level that doesn't feel neither too weak for today nor too strong for GvG. It's always a difficult task to balance cards from vintage expansions.

  • First idea:

    I was trying to find art that screams DK and a specific expansion which is quite hard actually. I like ho this one turned out though.

    Edit: Well, fuck. I've just been told Deliverance exists.

  • Oh hey, look I get to use this art I didn't use a couple competitions ago again.

     

    Rastakhan's Rumble just had such strong class identity, even if the archetypes weren't always the strongest. I imagine the rest of the set (i.e., the spirit and the champion) having to deal with 1 health rush/charge minions to help the strategy alongside their Loa. either way, the hero power alone allows you to just start destroying minions and gaining a little health, which is nice. 

  • Early feedback:

    linkblade91
    I like the Battlecry a lot and the art is very cool. I agree with your take about its balance compared to the Priest Galakrond.

    Demonxz95
    I'm not a fan of C'thun's Envoy, since its effect could be any class, which goes against the point of the comp IMO.

    Regarding your other cards, both are pretty good, but I'm not sure which one I prefer. I'd probably slap an Unholy Rune or two to Strik, as its power level seems a bit strong for TGT.

    anchorman
    Pretty solid card and artwork, although it's a bit similar to Deliverance. If you decide to go with it, I'd recommend making it a Shadow spell.

    Dolphinslayer
    I like the idea, but I'd suggest dropping the runes, as these sort of archetypical legendaries (like Loas, Boomsday spells, etc.) should be universal. This is my opinion, of course, as we don't have any examples of this sort of cards in the game.

    Now I'm curious to know what would the Spirit of the Spider do haha

  • Feedback, will update as more come in:

    linkblade91
    I think the strength of this Galakrond, like Shaman before it (Corrupt Elementalist, Invocation of Frost) is gonna depend on how good the invoke cards are. The battlecry is pretty good, and the hero power is at a solid level but not incredible. Overall, I think it's really neat.

    Demonxz95
    Of the three of these, Snowblower is easily my favorite. We didn't get a magnetic minion with that effect during actual Boomsday, and this feels like it slots right in there perfectly. I love it.

    C'thun's Envoy also feels very flavorful, and like it fits right into Old Gods as well, so great work there too.

    The thing I would say about Deathrider Strik is that a couple of the rune archetypes that struggle to get as many corpses as Unholy normally gets would love to have this card available to them for easy corpse generation, as this thing really puts in work in that department. I would think that it should get 1 or 2 unholy runes on it just so Triple blood or Triple frost couldn't run it. Otherwise, I feel like it feels great in Unholy decks.

    wailor
    Of the two of these, I like the Defiling Accusation the best. It makes sense for the class and fits the theme of the Nathria mini-set very well.

    That being said, I struggle to see where the Recycling Bin would be run. This feels like an eternal problem for GvG cards, but they don't really push to a particular archetype very well. I think it fits the theme and flavor of a GvG Death Knight card nicely, so this is probably more of a problem with power level than it is with the design.

    arnchorm4n
    This card just feels too much like Deliverance for me personally. I don't know that that makes this design space unworkable, but that's what I see when I look at this card.

    CursedParrot
    I really like the DK quest, but that's just because I love Un'goro and elementals. I think Ahune should probably be an elemental himself, although if Ahune is an existing character in WOW lore, I don't know much about him so I could be wrong. That being said, I don't know how good this quest is for DK, as they're really not known for their elemental synergy. 

    Kel'thuzad, Master of Frost should have a wording change; he should read something along the lines of "Battlecry: Recast each Frost spell you've cast this game, targeting enemy minions if possible," to be consistent with other similar cards, as Frost spells like Cold Case don't target anything. That being said, Dual-class cards definitely weren't a part of Fractured in Alterac Valley, and neither was Kelthu'zad, so this feels weird to include it there. I think this would have been better as a Scholomance card, but even then Kelthu'zad already had a spot there, so this one is just difficult overall. It's a shame, because Kel'thuzad would be an awesome dual Mage/DK card as he fits both classes very well.

    It's very funny to me how every competition these days has to have a Razuvius submission. Either way, I think mechanically this would be a nightmare. If they did do something like this for a card, I think it would be more likely to read something along the lines of "Battlecry: This equips a random weapon from your hand." Or something along those lines. Repeatedly doing an effect like that seems kinda impossible to balance really, not to mention the U.I. implementation of choosing when you cast it "Is this being equipped to you or a minion? Okay, which minion?" Probably just too much of a headache to be worth it.

    BloodMefist
    Corpse Conjurer feels very thematically appropriate and also probably pretty good, I think it's solid. 

    Grim Harvest feels like a good option, but kind of weak. I think that's mainly because Overkill is weak though, and not because of any fault of the card's. Overall, not a bad option either.

     

  • I thought it would be fun to create an Un'Goro quest for Death Knight, so here's my design!

    I'm worried that it's a bit weak, but the implication behind this design is that Death Knight would get a whole set of Ice Elementals that makes this effect powerful (like a card that makes Frozen enemies take more damage).

    I also really like Dual-class cards, so here are a couple I thought would be interesting:

    To clarify how fencing instructor razuvius would work, the minion would get the extra attack and card text of the weapon on your turns, and whenever it attacked the durability of the weapon would be reduced. If the minion died before the weapon ran out of durability, the weapon would be returned to your hand (retaining its current durability, so that a Fiery War Axe that a minion used once would become a 3/1 Weapon). I really like the idea of this mechanic so I was thinking it might be cool to make it a start of game effect, but I wonder if that would be too powerful.

    I had a lot of fun designing for this prompt, let me know which design y'all like best! 

  • I'll get aboard the Early Feedback Train as well. And by popular demand (and by that I mean "peer pressure", and by that I mean "no one asked, but I feel guilty for not doing it anyway"), I will start separating out my feedback like everyone else instead of lumping it all together lazily lol.

    CursedParrot

    I like the idea behind the Quest the most: focusing on another minion type can be a fun way to open up a class to new experiences. I do it in my custom work with stuff like Dragon Demon Hunter, Mech Shaman, etc. That being said, a couple things need to be addressed:

    1. The Quest requirements should be higher. Un'Goro Quests were more lengthy than Uldum Quests, because their Rewards were supposed to be powerful and game-shifting. Fire Fly and Igneous Elemental make this requirement a joke; it's definitely less strict than Fire Plume's Heart, for example.
    2. You should never use in-game screenshots as art. It's obvious and it doesn't look great :(
    3. 'Elementals' is not capitalized on Ahune. Ahune should also be an Elemental IIRC.

    Dolphinslayer

    I like this card a lot because it implies an archetype - 1 Health minions - while still being functional by itself (or at least, with the Hero Power). The better loas - Gonk, the Raptor, Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk, etc. - were similar. Nice work!

    anchorm4n

    I have to agree with the others about it being too close to Deliverance. Sorry :(

    Wailor

    I want to like Recycling Bin more because I have a soft spot for Mechs and Spare Parts, but…yeah. Defiling Accusation is just better.

    (I skipped Demon because we already talked about our cards together; I'm not a meanie)

    Friendly

  • Hey, this thread is actually moving along a bit.

    Feedback time.

    Wailor
    My favorite of the two is Defiling Accusation because I feel like it has a stronger and more obvious DK flavor. Being part of a cycle means that it'll probably also get some bonus points from voters. I would try to zoom the art in a bit further to find the "ALEXHORLEYART.COM" watermarking that's current visible.

    Tiny little footnote: I'm not sure why the card says "spend any Corpse" when it could just be "a Corpse" instead.

    Anchorm4n
    I actually disagree with everyone else and I think the card isn't too similar to Deliverance. Normal-statted resurrection versus 3/3 copy resurrection makes a pretty big difference since either has different cases of being better than the other, and if you made it a Shadow spell, then it would interact with very different cards.

    That said, if the common consensus is that the card is too similar, then you should probably go with a different card anyway.

    Dolphinslayer
    A solid design, but I'm not sure why the 1-Health minions have both Lifesteal AND Poisonous since the way minions with Lifesteal or Poisonous are designed are very different from each other. I think it would make more sense if simply gave either one or the other and rebalance the card accordingly, but the way the card is right now isn't broken or anything if you really want to go with both.

    CursedParrot

    I think the idea of the Quest in a vacuum is alright, but if DK did get a Quest, then I think it should definitely be Runeless. The Reward feels like it would be hard to use properly, but as Link said, the requirement is a piece of cake. Fire Fly and Igneous Elemental were why The Caverns Below was so easy to complete, and they make this Quest even easier. I think the flavor is also very questionable since Un'Goro is a huge jungle with a volcano in it and it seems really far-fetched to try to freeze over the entire place. Everything Link said also applies.

    Kel'Thuzad, Master of Frost is a cool way to tie KT to both Mage and Death Knight with a common mechanic, but I have a big problem with the fact that dual-class cards don't exist in Fractured in Alterac Valley. In my opinion, it should just be Death Knight.

    Fencing Instructor Razuvius (his name is misspelled, it should be "Razuvious") has a similar problem. It's in the correct set for dual-class cards to occur, but since the dual-class structure of Scholomance operates on a "wheel", it's intentionally very particular about the way the pairings are designed and adding a Death Knight dual-class pairing to it breaks the wheel entirely. As for the design, many people try to make this exact design, and it never works because of a few weapons (Gorehowl in particular being one of the most egregious examples) that have very questionable interactions as to how they would work if put on minions.

    Friendly Staff

  • Corpse Conjurer weaves DK into Scholomance and functions as an alternate method of generating corpses that does not require huge numbers of minions. Grim Harvest functions as a powerful early board control tool, much like Plague Strike, but also requires you to have a pre-established board to get full value.

    Missed the early feedback train, but I will endeavor to get some feedback in on my elusive day off.

  • Thanks for all the feedback, I’ll incorporate it into my design and submit!

    linkblade: I like the Galakrond but the ability seems a little too close to Priest, maybe something resurrecting minions or stealing health from all enemies could be cool.

    Demonxz95: I vote Snowblower, very cool design 

    Wailor: I like accusation best, though I think you could reduce the rune requirement or drop it completely.

    Anchorm4n: I dislike honorable kill in general but this card uses it well.

    Dolphin slayer: I like Shadra a lot, but I think the rune requirement could be a lot lower so it’s opened up to more decks.

    BloodMeFist: Corpse Grinder is my favorite, though I think it could be more viable as a 1 Mana 2/2 since gaining corpses isn’t that powerful and most Death Knight decks don’t both run super high cost spells and care about corpse total 

  • It seems I'm the only one who prefers Recycling Bin over Defiling Accusation, so I'll go with the later card applying all feedback you guys gave me. Thanks everybody!

    Feedback for the two people that didn't receive it:

    CursedParrot
    I must agree with everyone else: Glaciate Un'goro is your best card and Ahune needs better art, an Elemental tag and to say "Elemental" capitalized.

    Besides this, I'd also change its name to Bring the Ice Age or something like that, as this would reflect the "prehistoric" feel of Journey to Un'goro better.

    BloodMefist
    Both are solid, but I like Corpse Conjurer a bit better. I agree with CursedParrot that it'd work better as a 1/2/2.

     

  • Off of feedback, I have given a single Unholy Rune to Deathrider Strik. My other two cards are still perfectly on the table.

    BloodMefist
    I agree with pretty much every else that Corpse Conjurer is the superior card and I also think it could be a 1 mana 2/2. It's not that easy to use it with a big spell and get a lot of Corpses and it also makes me think of Plagued Grain which just gives you 4 Corpses instantly (and also the Creates) for 1 mana. Granted that card is Triple-Unholy and this one is Runeless.

    Friendly Staff

  • Sorry for the radio silence, I have to admit I tend to be quite disappointed when I accidently create cards that already exist, especially when I put a lot of effort into it. Anyway, here's some feedback:

    Demonxz95
    First of all, I vote against Strik. Balancing the power level of a new class with old expansions will be a big thing this week and I feel like that one would be very OP in its expansion. While C'Thun cards seem to be generally loved by the community I don't really feel the flavor of your Envoy card. That leaves us with the Snowchugger for Death Knights which looks solid, but not on par with your usual genius. I hope I don't come over rude, please accept my apologies if that should be the case.

    BloodMefist
    I like the effect of both cards. The art for the Conjurer seems to be a better fit though, so that's my favorite.

    CursedParrot
    I'm pretty confused about the fact that Ahune isn't an Elemental itself - I guess that was an accident? That said  DK hasn't received any Elemental support yet which leaves me skeptical about this one. My favorite of your three is Kel, but I'd advocate to push him a little closer to his original card. Maybe something like repeating all Frost spells you've cast this turn?

    Dolphinslayer
    Looks a bit scary at first glance because of the removal that is granted by the Hero Power, but then again toxmonger has never been OP. Very cool card overall!

    Wailor
    Accusation is a very very cool card. Well done!

    linkblade91
    I like your design quite a lot, very nice work. The one suggestion I'd like to make is to fine-tune the Hero Power. I would prefer it if each use cost a Corpse to stick with the original effect on Boneguard Commander and Battlefield Necromancer. To balance this, I'd consider lowering the cost to 1, but that's a tough call to make for sure.

  • At this point, you have 24 hours left to submit.

    Friendly Staff

  • In case anyone forgot/didn't know, "Spring Forward" was today for the server, so the clock moved ahead an hour and thus people have a little less time to vote this go-around. I almost forgot myself lol D:

    You have just about an hour left to vote!

    Friendly

  • Good luck to the finalists!

    Show Spoiler
    Felt really good about my card, and most everyone seemed to like it, but I didn't come close to the finals :( RIP my confidence.

    Friendly

  • Congrats to Wailor again!

    Friendly

  • It seems that I have some competition, haha.

    Great job, Wailor.

    Friendly Staff

  • Wow thanks!

  • Congrats to Wailor! A very deserved win.

    I feel a little bad for BloodMefist, that was a very cool card as well who almost reached a rating of 4.0 in the first round only to brutally fail in the finals. Would have clearly made my personal second place.