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Hearthstone | Posted by | 6 years, 6 months ago
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Secret Warrior Nerf?

Did anyone else notice the patch that just came out?

Besides bug fixes and Tombs of Terror files there is one gameplay change - no more class bonuses for discovers. That is huge in my opinion! Control Warrior relies heavily on its discover effects - extra copies of Tomb Warden, Armagedillo, Dyn-o-matic or Omega Devastator are often crucial for the deck. Now Delivery Drone, Omega Assembly and Flunky all loose a lot of power. The deck is still likely very good against aggro, but should now have much bigger trouble in the late game.

What do you think about this. Is Warrior loosing even more of its power or is it fine just getting neutral taunts and mechs?

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  • Did anyone else notice the patch that just came out?

    Besides bug fixes and Tombs of Terror files there is one gameplay change - no more class bonuses for discovers. That is huge in my opinion! Control Warrior relies heavily on its discover effects - extra copies of Tomb Warden, Armagedillo, Dyn-o-matic or Omega Devastator are often crucial for the deck. Now Delivery Drone, Omega Assembly and Flunky all loose a lot of power. The deck is still likely very good against aggro, but should now have much bigger trouble in the late game.

    What do you think about this. Is Warrior loosing even more of its power or is it fine just getting neutral taunts and mechs?

    • Quote From MarvelOfRain

      Did anyone else notice the patch that just came out?

      Besides bug fixes and Tombs of Terror files there is one gameplay change - no more class bonuses for discovers. That is huge in my opinion! Control Warrior relies heavily on its discover effects - extra copies of Tomb Warden, Armagedillo, Dyn-o-matic or Omega Devastator are often crucial for the deck. Now Delivery Drone, Omega Assembly and Flunky all loose a lot of power. The deck is still likely very good against aggro, but should now have much bigger trouble in the late game.

      What do you think about this. Is Warrior loosing even more of its power or is it fine just getting neutral taunts and mechs?

      This is healthy for the meta. 3x Armagedillo in warrior is unhealthy.

    • Quote From MarvelOfRain

      Did anyone else notice the patch that just came out?

      Besides bug fixes and Tombs of Terror files there is one gameplay change - no more class bonuses for discovers. That is huge in my opinion! Control Warrior relies heavily on its discover effects - extra copies of Tomb Warden, Armagedillo, Dyn-o-matic or Omega Devastator are often crucial for the deck. Now Delivery Drone, Omega Assembly and Flunky all loose a lot of power. The deck is still likely very good against aggro, but should now have much bigger trouble in the late game.

      What do you think about this. Is Warrior loosing even more of its power or is it fine just getting neutral taunts and mechs?

      The DR boom nerf was a slap on the wrist, I am glad they are adressing the real issue. IMo they should have done this when Odd Paladin was abusing this to Discover Sunkeeper Tarim

  • I am a little bummed I crafted Armagedillo now. Would be nice to get a dust refund on it but not the end of the world without. It is going to have a huge impact though. The deck will be much less consistent.

    • Also crafted it like a week ago. The class should be okay since it doesn't really affect aggro matchup. Warrior now becomes much less consistent later in the game - to the point it might be just a counter que deck if you face a lot of aggro. Still worth having, but if you only have a couple of decks it might be a big loss.

    • Owning Armagedillo doesn't affect this. The nerf is to cards that can discover Armagedillo, like Frightened Flunky.

      • Quote From Pezman

        Owning Armagedillo doesn't affect this. The nerf is to cards that can discover Armagedillo, like Frightened Flunky.

        The viability of the main deck that armagedillo is used in is considerably hindered by the fact that Armagedillo itself will not show up as much in the discover mechanic from Flunky. It doesn't affect Armagedillo directly but it affects the deck that armagedillo is used in and therefore the value of crafting armagedillo. I have enough dust and decks that this won't be that big of a deal in the long run and I am not crying for a dust refund. I am however lamenting the fact that I crafted armagedillo only to have its usefulness diminished. 

        • Yeah, you're right there. I hope you can still get some good use out of him, since I assume you won't disenchant. I unpacked him myself, and will keep him because of the no duplicate rule.

          • Quote From Pezman

            Yeah, you're right there. I hope you can still get some good use out of him, since I assume you won't disenchant. I unpacked him myself, and will keep him because of the no duplicate rule.

            It is important to note too that I am not mad and I think this change is a brilliant way to bring down the power level of some cards without destroying them. It also hit multiple issue areas with one change. 

            I am sure I will still use armagedillo somewhere. Just might not recraft Dr. Boom like I thought and play control warrior. Maybe I will build a for fun taunt warrior deck. 

    • Quote From zoobernut

      I am a little bummed I crafted Armagedillo now. Would be nice to get a dust refund on it but not the end of the world without. It is going to have a huge impact though. The deck will be much less consistent.

      I had the same feeling after the preparation nerf having recently crafted Edwin a few weeks earlier. Feel your pain, but blizzard would never be that generous. 

      • Quote From Meenz
        Quote From zoobernut

        I am a little bummed I crafted Armagedillo now. Would be nice to get a dust refund on it but not the end of the world without. It is going to have a huge impact though. The deck will be much less consistent.

        I had the same feeling after the preparation nerf having recently crafted Edwin a few weeks earlier. Feel your pain, but blizzard would never be that generous. 

        Preperation has always been an issue. While I dont disagree that they sometimes pick the cheap option last time they did nerf 3 legendaries out of the 5 nerfs. Which is insane

  • Wow, wow, wow. This is huge. I don't know how I've missed this update - thanks for sharing it. Control and Bomb Warriors aren't the only decks, that get hit. In wild odd paladin won't be able to find Sunkeeper Tarim from Stonehill Defender that often, dragon decks running Netherspite Historian will generate their op class dragons more rarely (priest), some N'zoth priest decks might not even consider Museum Curator anymore, Dark Peddler will give Power Overwhelming, Soulfire or other op 1-mana demons seldom, the value from Archivist Elysiana gets worse, in arena Golden Scarab gets weaker.

    [edit] Oh, the update was released a few hours ago. I have closed the game before the new patch arrived.

    Well, dunno about you, but I'm glad that I won't have to deal with more than 2 Omega Devastators in a single game anymore.

    • Quote From Kovachut

      Well, dunno about you, but I'm glad that I won't have to deal with more than 2 Omega Devastators in a single game anymore.

      I feel like I should clarify since it sounds like you're not quite understanding the change - you can still Discover class cards from Discover cards. They just don't have the 4x offering bonus they previously did, so you'll see them less.

      You can definitely still see more than two Omega Devastators in a game, but seeing 4+ will happen a lot less often.

  • Thank goodness. Warriors getting multiple frightened flunkys and multiple armadillo thing is really dumb 

  • Warrior today, other classes in the future.

    It's all for the best anyway.

  • It's a good nerf to warrior and also a buff to some other discover cards where the class cards have been the bad outcome like mage 

    • Quote From Rachel2702

      It's a good nerf to warrior and also a buff to some other discover cards where the class cards have been the bad outcome like mage 

      Rogue too. Myra Rotspring is much better now that it's more likely to get eggs isntead of useless Gral.

      Friendly

  • Well regarding mage: I was using discover spell minions to discover me a mage spell (ie galaxy). This would improve my chances to have that spell when I needed it. This change will impact that strategy negatively. And I am not sure if Magic Trick should be happy or not. You could get lucky but also very unlucky I guess :) But since it used mainly to get a conjurer's calling and that already got the nerf treatment, I guess most mage players (if there are still some left) will not care a lot about Magic Trick.

    • Quote From Zwane

      Well regarding mage: I was using discover spell minions to discover me a mage spell (ie galaxy). This would improve my chances to have that spell when I needed it. This change will impact that strategy negatively. And I am not sure if Magic Trick should be happy or not. You could get lucky but also very unlucky I guess :) But since it used mainly to get a conjurer's calling and that already got the nerf treatment, I guess most mage players (if there are still some left) will not care a lot about Magic Trick.

      All spells are class cards. 

      • Yes, but before this nerf, the discover would have a much higher chance of giving me a mage spell. In fact, my Vulpera Scoundrel has never offered me a spell from another class (as long as I can remember). So how is this possible? Are spell discovers always from your own class? Ah a discover is always from your own class or neutral and never from another class. I did not know that. So you can ignore all my ignorant comments in this thread :) (facepalm)

        • Quote From Zwane

          Yes, but before this nerf, the discover would have a much higher chance of giving me a mage spell. In fact, my Vulpera Scoundrel has never offered me a spell from another class (as long as I can remember). So how is this possible? Are spell discovers always from your own class? Ah a discover is always from your own class or neutral and never from another class. I did not know that. So you can ignore all my ignorant comments in this thread :) (facepalm)

          Yes, discover Spells are almost always from your class. The only difference is Rogue with his 4-mana Pirate, who can discover spells and minions, but that minion is uneffected, because it can only discover from another class.

        • Quote From Zwane

          Yes, but before this nerf, the discover would have a much higher chance of giving me a mage spell. In fact, my Vulpera Scoundrel has never offered me a spell from another class (as long as I can remember). So how is this possible? Are spell discovers always from your own class? Ah a discover is always from your own class or neutral and never from another class. I did not know that. So you can ignore all my ignorant comments in this thread :) (facepalm)

          You always discover class spells, did you ever got another class card from a discover? Except rogue?

          Besides there are no neutral spells.. 

           

          • Quote From DoubleSummon
            Quote From Zwane

            Yes, but before this nerf, the discover would have a much higher chance of giving me a mage spell. In fact, my Vulpera Scoundrel has never offered me a spell from another class (as long as I can remember). So how is this possible? Are spell discovers always from your own class? Ah a discover is always from your own class or neutral and never from another class. I did not know that. So you can ignore all my ignorant comments in this thread :) (facepalm)

            You always discover class spells, did you ever got another class card from a discover? Except rogue?

            Besides there are no neutral spells.. 

             

            Slight correction. Discover allways discovers only cards from your class or neutral cards. Only exception is when the card text says you can discover from other class.

            Class cards had higher chance to be discovered that neutrals, this is changed now.

  • I really don't understand why these kinds of fundamental, wide-reaching changes aren't announced with the same kind of pomp and fanfare as card-specific nerfs. Arguably they're more impactful, and yet they get stealth-implemented with only a mention in the changelog, if you're lucky. It's ridiculous. I remember the last time they pulled this shit I thought the game was buggy when my opponent Cleaved a single minion on my board.

    It really is a terrible gaming experience to think you know how the game works only to get clowned on by some unannounced major rules change. FFS Blizz, just flipping tell us about this stuff. We won't bite (... hard).

     

    As for the change itself, I don't like it. If this was done to put warrior in its place then it's a post-hoc attempt to fix something that should obviously have been caught during playtesting (or even just during design because it's incredibly obvious): Giving Warrior a million overstatted minions with upsides and making them all mechs was never going to end well. Instead of bending the rules to make it work, they should have un-meched a couple of these dudes and maybe hit omega devastator and eternium rover with the nerfstick. Instead, now the discover mechanic itself and all of the other classes have to suffer for the sins of Dr. Boom. Exasperating.

  • I'm really annoyed that they had to fundamentally alter how discover works just to correct for the ridiculous amount of overstatted OP minions warrior keeps getting. This should have been addressed by taking a wrecking ball to the warrior pool of discoverable minions rather than taking a dump on discover itself. Omega Devastator and Eternium Rover should have been nerfed directly, Tomb Warden and Armegadillo shouldn't be mechs, etc.

     

    I also really really dislike the fact that blizzard doesn't give a big public announcement about rule changes the same way they do for individual card nerfs: these changes affect the game more substantively and unlike a card change, you can't tell it has occurred by looking at the card. You won't know things are different until it happens to you in a game, which tends to be an awful experience. Just announce the flipping rules changes blizzard, c'mon.

  • So to summarize: this nerf only affects minion discovers and not spell discovers.

    • Quote From Zwane

      So to summarize: this nerf only affects minion discovers and not spell discovers.

      Yes, exactly.

  • This is massive. Suddenly, Warrior is no longer undisputed king of the late game because of a single card. I still think there's going to be a home for warrior because it's a good answer to Zoo and Priest. But the days of Warrior being able to out-grind Druids and Shamans (which it was already faltering at) are probably at an end.

    I wonder if this gives some breathing room to Rogue?

  • I was going to make a post yesterday about a change I wanted to see to discover that prevented discovering the card that triggered the discovery... so tired of Frightened Flunky being essentially an echo minion.

    But then I saw this... which is a MUCH more drastic change to discover than even I was proposing. Personally, I always thought the class bonuses were a bad idea, and was surprised this change was not made back in Ungoro, where Stonehill Defender might as well have read: Choose One: Add a Tirion Fordring or Sunkeeper Tarim to your hand.

    This is such a welcome change, and will go a long way toward bringing Warrior's power in line with other classes.

  • Every warrior nerf is good. 

  • Quick question: I vaguely recall back in the Un'goro days having heard/read that discover also gives you higher odds at finding cards from the newest set. EG Primordial Glyph had a heightened chance of giving Meteor or a second glyph, Stonehill Defender had increased odds of spawning more stonehill defenders and Sunkeeper Tarims, etc.

     

    Did the last expansion bonus also get removed in this latest patch? Is it still there? Have I been imagining it all along? I couldn't find any documentation on this, but like I said, I could have sworn I heard about this being in the game at the time.

    • Quote From AliRadicali

      Quick question: I vaguely recall back in the Un'goro days having heard/read that discover also gives you higher odds at finding cards from the newest set. EG Primordial Glyph had a heightened chance of giving Meteor or a second glyph, Stonehill Defender had increased odds of spawning more stonehill defenders and Sunkeeper Tarims, etc.

       

      Did the last expansion bonus also get removed in this latest patch? Is it still there? Have I been imagining it all along? I couldn't find any documentation on this, but like I said, I could have sworn I heard about this being in the game at the time.

      Sounds like you may be conflating discover mechanics with arena mechanics.

  • You should be ashamed of crafting control warrior.

    • Quote From Megatron

      You should be ashamed of crafting control warrior.

      And you should feel ashamed telling people what they should craft or not. It's a good deck, always has been and always will be. That's why it gets shit on so often.

       As for the changes I think they are good. Round of applause all around here. 

       I've been on the receiving end of an Odd Paladin pulling a Sunkeeper Tarim out of thin air enough times to know its a massive pain in the ass. So if this change works as intended then it's amazing.

       As for the Frightened Flunky train I'm glad I'll be seeing this less often now.

       I'm more looking forward to Elise the Enlightened putting cards into your hand from Left to Right instead of some random hodgepodge of cards. 

  • They lose power through diversity. IMO it is a very good choice. I hope they do more of this.

  • Well i did not just hit warrior - alltough i guess he got hit the hardest because Frightened Flunky is way worse now :) 

    I think it´s a good way to degrade the Power-lvl from some Discover Cards that way - but i do not like that they did it in kinda sneaky way ... way not say it out loud?

    But still an ok nerf/balance Patch i personaly welcome :) 

  • I'd like to look at it as a buff to all classes except Warrior :D. A little diversity in discover effects would be a healthy direction for the current meta. 

    Constantly discovering the card you need kinda defeats the purpose of the discover mechanic.