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Any chance or news if they will do anything with Sacrificial Pact? For example, making it only affect friendly demons.
With the release of ashes of outland, they have printed a lot of demons for all classes. The demon condition seems to be less situational with all classes likely running demons. For instance With Magtheridon, sac pact could easily be destroy an enemy 12/12, heal 5, for zero mana! A huge tempo swing.
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Any chance or news if they will do anything with Sacrificial Pact? For example, making it only affect friendly demons.
With the release of ashes of outland, they have printed a lot of demons for all classes. The demon condition seems to be less situational with all classes likely running demons. For instance With Magtheridon, sac pact could easily be destroy an enemy 12/12, heal 5, for zero mana! A huge tempo swing.
No news atm, but I think that if Sacrificial Pact will be abused a lot they'll probably look into it (but that also mean that there will be really tons of Demons around to justify 2x of it into a decklist). Having it like a situational removal or tech card is ok.
I could easily see myself running 2 copies of this in every warlock deck. With demon hunters being the flavor of the month, this won't have a shortage of targets.
I think Sacrificial Pact will be an okay card in this meta. It depends on how many demons are good. It's a tech card. There's no guarantee your opponent will be running demons, and if they aren't, you have a dead card in your deck. I don't think any of the revealed demons look meta-breaking in any way. Like, at best you might snipe a Battlefiend (as probably the most playable demon they've revealed so far).
Besides, 0 mana destroy a bad 12/12 Legendary isn't much better than 2 mana destroy a bad 12/12 Legendary, which is what Shadow Word: Death is going to be. If you play a stat stick, it'll get hard removed. It's just that the 0 mana one is far more specific.
I could be wrong. Maybe Imprisoned Antaen is just that good, and there's enough other demons around for it to be reliable. I definitely wouldn't bite the bullet right away, though. If it's an issue, it can be nerfed. It's far better to wait and see.
I would however highly recommend running SacPac in the first few weeks of the expansion. There will be demons everywhere while the meta settles, and you might even catch a few Hunters unaware when they drop Frenzied Felwing.
You guys are right.
A wait and see approach is best.
Quote From MurlocAggroB Besides, 0 mana destroy a bad 12/12 Legendary isn't much better than 2 mana destroy a bad 12/12 Legendary, which is what Shadow Word: Death is going to be. If you play a stat stick, it'll get hard removed. It's just that the 0 mana one is far more specific.
Though its too early to tell, I don't think Magtheridon is as bad as you say.
It's not a stats stick. I see it more as a combo board clear with a 12/12 body.
For example, on turn 8 you could run this with Hellfire which leaves you a 12/12 body after a board wipe.
EDIT: Removed error.
Quote From JackJimson You guys are right.
A wait and see approach is best.
Quote From MurlocAggroB Besides, 0 mana destroy a bad 12/12 Legendary isn't much better than 2 mana destroy a bad 12/12 Legendary, which is what Shadow Word: Death is going to be. If you play a stat stick, it'll get hard removed. It's just that the 0 mana one is far more specific.
Though its too early to tell, I don't think Magtheridon is as bad as you say.
It's not a stats stick. I see it more as a combo board clear with a 12/12 body.
For example, on turn 8 you could run this with Hellfire which leaves you a 12/12 body after a board wipe.
Or turn 9, this with Crazed Netherwing will leave you a 5/5 and 12/12 after a board wipe.
I agree with you that the board wipe might be more important than the body in some cases, but the combo with Crazed Netherwing will result in the same board state as the one with Hellfire: Magtheridons battlecry destroys ALL minions.
Quote From anchorm4n
I agree with you that the board wipe might be more important than the body in some cases, but the combo with Crazed Netherwing will result in the same board state as the one with Hellfire: Magtheridons battlecry destroys ALL minions.
Ahh you're right. I missed that (re: Netherwing).
I don't think it would be justified. Part of the game is suppose to be supporting tech choices--e.g., Dragonmaw Poacher in DoD or Golakka Crawler in Un'Goro (although that card arguably should have been included in MSG as a possible answer to Patches). If the opposing tribe is overly popular then players will slot in "hate" cards to tech against it; if its not, then they won't. It helps keep the meta healthy.
No. Simply because there's no evidence that every deck will be nothing more than a demon fest.
In DoD, even I gasped as Dragonmaw Poacher was introduced. I gasped even harder to find out that not every deck plays dragons, and there's very little the card can do when there isn't any dragons about.
Even when pirates were everywhere in the early days of Ungoro Golakka Crawler wasn't that abusive.
From what I see, there's no evidence yet that demons will be a mandatory feature in every deck. Even if it is, only warlock has that card. There are better things you can do with [Hearthstone Card (Zephrys the Great) Not Found] than a 0 mana kill a specific minion.
Well obviously before they change a card they will first have to wait and see how powerful it is. But if this card is only powerful due to a meta with a lot of demons then I say it is fine. This is how Classic cards should be, good in some cases, not so much in others. If a Classic card is good all of the time, then it gets Nerfed/HoFed, if it is bad all of the time then it is just a bad card and people forget about it.
I would be fine if Sacrificial Pact became a powerful card in this meta, but then went back to sorta bad after demons left the meta.
If they haven't made it so the card wasn't an auto-win against an opponent who played Lord Jaraxxus then I doubt they will make any changes to Sacrificial Pact ever.
The last time Sac Pact saw any form of major play was when Cubelock was in its prime, as well as being a majority of the metagame. Even when it is "0 mana kill an enemy's creature, gain 5 health", it still did not win the game every time it was cast. Now looking at a meta where every other deck runs maybe 2-4 demons in it, Sac pact still would not be incredibly strong unless the demons were deck-defining cards that would win the game if left alone. It'll be a fun "haha gotcha!" moment to sac pact an opponent's demon, I'd find it hard to justify running a card just to counter a couple of cards in half of the metagame.
Another reason why I think Sac Pact is fine is due to the nature of tech cards. The only times a tech card has been nerfed was when it still is playable even when it's not against the card you are trying to tech against. The two examples of this are with Big Game Hunter and Flare, which used to cost 3 and 1 mana respectively. BGH was essentially in every deck because 9/10 decks were also running Dr. Boom, but against that 1/10 matches, it was still a 3 mana 4/2 which was still playable. As for Flare, it was a 1 mana card that said "draw a card", which I'd argue would still be strong if printed today. If we look at the other times a tech card starts seeing major play and becomes a very omnipresent card, such as Blood Knight back when Giggling Inventor was 5 mana, it is less the tech card being too strong and more the card it is meant to counter being too strong. If Sac Pact is put into every deck to counter a specific card, chances are that specific card its meant to counter is too strong and not Sac Pact being too strong.
Quote From Echo The last time Sac Pact saw any form of major play was when Cubelock was in its prime, as well as being a majority of the metagame. Even when it is "0 mana kill an enemy's creature, gain 5 health", it still did not win the game every time it was cast. Now looking at a meta where every other deck runs maybe 2-4 demons in it, Sac pact still would not be incredibly strong unless the demons were deck-defining cards that would win the game if left alone. It'll be a fun "haha gotcha!" moment to sac pact an opponent's demon, I'd find it hard to justify running a card just to counter a couple of cards in half of the metagame.
Another reason why I think Sac Pact is fine is due to the nature of tech cards. The only times a tech card has been nerfed was when it still is playable even when it's not against the card you are trying to tech against. The two examples of this are with Big Game Hunter and Flare, which used to cost 3 and 1 mana respectively. BGH was essentially in every deck because 9/10 decks were also running Dr. Boom, but against that 1/10 matches, it was still a 3 mana 4/2 which was still playable. As for Flare, it was a 1 mana card that said "draw a card", which I'd argue would still be strong if printed today. If we look at the other times a tech card starts seeing major play and becomes a very omnipresent card, such as Blood Knight back when Giggling Inventor was 5 mana, it is less the tech card being too strong and more the card it is meant to counter being too strong. If Sac Pact is put into every deck to counter a specific card, chances are that specific card its meant to counter is too strong and not Sac Pact being too strong.
Right, but Sac Pact was designed and balanced in a world where demons were used only by warlocks, and the few neutral demons that have seen play are not real threats. The introduction of the demon hunter class, along with the more temporary spike in demons available to other classes, completely changes the landscape for the card.
It is not specific cards being too strong and prevalent, as it was for Dr Boom and Giggling Inventor, but an entire tribe being much more common than Sac Pact was balanced for. We'll have to see how it pans out, but if people are forced to not run demons simply to avoid Sac Pact then that will be a failing of one of the major parts of the expansion, all because of outdated balance for a card.
Quote From AngryShuckie Right, but Sac Pact was designed and balanced in a world where demons were used only by warlocks, and the few neutral demons that have seen play are not real threats. The introduction of the demon hunter class, along with the more temporary spike in demons available to other classes, completely changes the landscape for the card.It is not specific cards being too strong and prevalent, as it was for Dr Boom and Giggling Inventor, but an entire tribe being much more common than Sac Pact was balanced for. We'll have to see how it pans out, but if people are forced to not run demons simply to avoid Sac Pact then that will be a failing of one of the major parts of the expansion, all because of outdated balance for a card.
That's true if DH becomes the go-to aggro class that some people have been heralding it as Sac Pact could be pretty useful. I'm still skeptical on all the imprisoned minions since they are so slow and I don't believe the payoff to be worth it, so that might be a reason why I don't see demons being as prevalent as everybody else feels they are going to be.
I agree though, we'll have to see how it pans out because at the end of the day, I feel like the only time Sac Pact is going to be played is when its off of zephrys.
Flavour-wise, it makes sense that Sacrificial Pact can only target friendly minions: you can't have a PACT with an ENEMY Demon.
Pact should indeed be finally adjusted to what should have always been. And I say this independently of the new expansion.
On the other hand, I'd be ok with a cheap Demon tech in Warlock's sleeves, eg. some steal-yo-demon card similar to Mind Control but obviously cheaper (on which you could also cast Pact).
Quote From RavenSunHS Flavour-wise, it makes sense that Sacrificial Pact can only target friendly minions: you can't have a PACT with an ENEMY Demon.
Flavor-wise - most often you do not sacrifice your friends but captured enemies.
Quote From Alfi Quote From RavenSunHS Flavour-wise, it makes sense that Sacrificial Pact can only target friendly minions: you can't have a PACT with an ENEMY Demon.
Flavor-wise - most often you do not sacrifice your friends but captured enemies.
Most often - but we are talking of WARLOCK here, and Warlocks regularly sacrifice their own Demons (and sometimes any friends too ie Dark Pact), because they are bound with an evil PACT.
Also, CAPTURED enemies indeed: a minion on the opposite side of the board is not captured: which is why I suggested a cheap Warlock tech for stealing demons.
Context and details are important.
Do note that even if you don't run the card..Zephrys the Great will give it to you..
galakround control warlock runs 2 sacrificial pact I think with so many demons around the deck will be even more successful!
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