Neoguli's Custom Warlock Core Set Changes

Submitted 4 years, 8 months ago by

Greetings there! I'm here to present you my version of how I would change Warlock's Core Sets. I'm jumping the bandwagon a bit with the changes after seeing some other people trying their reworks and generally accepting classes may need some updates.

I've decided to try out Warlock, because Gul'dan also seems to have too many bad cards in his Core sets, and while it has core staples like Flame Imp, other cards haven't got much time to shine... maybe Sacrificial Pact, which only sees play now with Galakrond Warlock. Some cards do need changes or replacements as I said despite some cards being already HoF'd before (hello Power Overwhelming and Doomguard).


Strengths and Weaknesses

Show Spoiler
  • Strengths
    • Demons - this is pretty obvious. Warlock should have acces to tons of Demons and their synergies.
    • Sacrifices - Warlocks are shaped by the high risk and high reward nature of most of their cards.
    • Minion Swarms - Zoo will never be forgotten.
    • Removal - Warlocks can deal with whatever you bring and can annoy you.
  • Limitations
    • Card Draw - Warlocks have access to their Hero Power, which while damaging your hero, stands of top of other Hero Powers in earlier stages of the game because it gives access to constant draw.
    • Healing - Self-damage can be painful, and so healing is needed or dare I say vital to balance out the suicide. But it should not be big enough to force you to play on the knife's edge.
  • Weaknesses
    • Burst - Warlocks want to play the war of attricion. They want you to die a slow and painful death.
    • Card Generation - Yes, they can use Summoning Portal in WoW, but they don't always trust other ways of solving problems than what they've learnt themselves. Their power is strong enough they don't need more. TL;DR they can generate Demons, but not other cards.


New Sets

Show Spoiler

Basic Set

Classic Set

 


Explanations

Show Spoiler

Drain Soul - Drain Life was long powercrept, so I thought I would replace it with a card that is similar, but much stronger. Also, now that Lifesteal can appear in Basic cards now, this can be slot in.

Fiendish Circle - a simple card that showcases Gul'dan's ability to summon a lot of minions.

Impeccable Doomguard - a strong defensive body at the cost of your Health.

Hooked Reaver - speaking of life total, Reaver is a very strong card, probably the strongest among all cards of my Classic Set due to it being meta back in days of Even Warlock. It suits the thematic of high risk - high reward, and is also a strong Demon.

Summoning Portalchanged into a token generator. Summoning Demons at a constant rate is always welcome if it means removing the toxic interaction with the cost reduction and all of the historic cards that could break the game in pair with the Portal (I'm looking at you, SN1P-SN4P Warlock).

Ectomancy - strong value generation for any Demon deck. A bit slow, but when it works, it can provide nice upswings.

Kil'Jaeden - the ultimate high risk, high reward card for Warlock. You discrad a lot of cards in attempts to summon a large board. If your opponent doesn't wipe your army, you have to deal with all of your precious cards discarded. If you survive, you can comfortably push tons of damage or just outright win. Kinda like Chef Nomi, except more expensive, but can be played much earlier on average.


Hall of Fame

Show Spoiler


Some cards that were considered, but didn't make the cut

Show Spoiler

Anima Golem - I actually really liked this card to be in the Classic set, teaching the importance of minions and rewarding you with a huge body. Ultimately pulled it off because of the Mech tag, which isn't really Warlock's thing.

Lord Godfrey - was more of a panic slam button because of my decision to HoF Siphon Soul. But he would be a bit too much of a staple moving forward.

Lord Jaraxxus - he's so iconic it's a shame I didn't include him. But he felt so obsolete as the new hero cards came. Wilfred also tried to summon him, so lorewise he's still there - jsut not as a main card.

Mal'Ganis - also a characteristic Demon, helps blostering your swarms and protects your hero. But I wanted to give Handlock some support.

Cho'gall - pretty recognisable character, but cheating out spells for Health is just too risky in terms of design spcae. The same could be said about Wilfred, but I'm optimistic he wouldn't break the game that much.

Treachery - trash, but these cards often land into Classic sets. Could show the pesky side of Warlock.

Kobold Librarian - was too good to be in any set.

Dark Pact - was thinking of this to replace Sacrificial Pact, but ultimately the latter teaches how to use Demons correctly.

Fearsome Doomguard - a decent body, but was maybe too meaningless to include.

Dark Bargain, Fist of Jaraxxus, Tiny Knight of Evil - discard synergies. Felt either weak, weird or maybe a little too concerning with Malchezaar's Imp.

  • Neoguli's Avatar
    Duskrider 880 599 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Greetings there! I'm here to present you my version of how I would change Warlock's Core Sets. I'm jumping the bandwagon a bit with the changes after seeing some other people trying their reworks and generally accepting classes may need some updates.

    I've decided to try out Warlock, because Gul'dan also seems to have too many bad cards in his Core sets, and while it has core staples like Flame Imp, other cards haven't got much time to shine... maybe Sacrificial Pact, which only sees play now with Galakrond Warlock. Some cards do need changes or replacements as I said despite some cards being already HoF'd before (hello Power Overwhelming and Doomguard).


    Strengths and Weaknesses

    Show Spoiler
    • Strengths
      • Demons - this is pretty obvious. Warlock should have acces to tons of Demons and their synergies.
      • Sacrifices - Warlocks are shaped by the high risk and high reward nature of most of their cards.
      • Minion Swarms - Zoo will never be forgotten.
      • Removal - Warlocks can deal with whatever you bring and can annoy you.
    • Limitations
      • Card Draw - Warlocks have access to their Hero Power, which while damaging your hero, stands of top of other Hero Powers in earlier stages of the game because it gives access to constant draw.
      • Healing - Self-damage can be painful, and so healing is needed or dare I say vital to balance out the suicide. But it should not be big enough to force you to play on the knife's edge.
    • Weaknesses
      • Burst - Warlocks want to play the war of attricion. They want you to die a slow and painful death.
      • Card Generation - Yes, they can use Summoning Portal in WoW, but they don't always trust other ways of solving problems than what they've learnt themselves. Their power is strong enough they don't need more. TL;DR they can generate Demons, but not other cards.


    New Sets

    Show Spoiler

    Basic Set

    Classic Set

     


    Explanations

    Show Spoiler

    Drain Soul - Drain Life was long powercrept, so I thought I would replace it with a card that is similar, but much stronger. Also, now that Lifesteal can appear in Basic cards now, this can be slot in.

    Fiendish Circle - a simple card that showcases Gul'dan's ability to summon a lot of minions.

    Impeccable Doomguard - a strong defensive body at the cost of your Health.

    Hooked Reaver - speaking of life total, Reaver is a very strong card, probably the strongest among all cards of my Classic Set due to it being meta back in days of Even Warlock. It suits the thematic of high risk - high reward, and is also a strong Demon.

    Summoning Portalchanged into a token generator. Summoning Demons at a constant rate is always welcome if it means removing the toxic interaction with the cost reduction and all of the historic cards that could break the game in pair with the Portal (I'm looking at you, SN1P-SN4P Warlock).

    Ectomancy - strong value generation for any Demon deck. A bit slow, but when it works, it can provide nice upswings.

    Kil'Jaeden - the ultimate high risk, high reward card for Warlock. You discrad a lot of cards in attempts to summon a large board. If your opponent doesn't wipe your army, you have to deal with all of your precious cards discarded. If you survive, you can comfortably push tons of damage or just outright win. Kinda like Chef Nomi, except more expensive, but can be played much earlier on average.


    Hall of Fame

    Show Spoiler


    Some cards that were considered, but didn't make the cut

    Show Spoiler

    Anima Golem - I actually really liked this card to be in the Classic set, teaching the importance of minions and rewarding you with a huge body. Ultimately pulled it off because of the Mech tag, which isn't really Warlock's thing.

    Lord Godfrey - was more of a panic slam button because of my decision to HoF Siphon Soul. But he would be a bit too much of a staple moving forward.

    Lord Jaraxxus - he's so iconic it's a shame I didn't include him. But he felt so obsolete as the new hero cards came. Wilfred also tried to summon him, so lorewise he's still there - jsut not as a main card.

    Mal'Ganis - also a characteristic Demon, helps blostering your swarms and protects your hero. But I wanted to give Handlock some support.

    Cho'gall - pretty recognisable character, but cheating out spells for Health is just too risky in terms of design spcae. The same could be said about Wilfred, but I'm optimistic he wouldn't break the game that much.

    Treachery - trash, but these cards often land into Classic sets. Could show the pesky side of Warlock.

    Kobold Librarian - was too good to be in any set.

    Dark Pact - was thinking of this to replace Sacrificial Pact, but ultimately the latter teaches how to use Demons correctly.

    Fearsome Doomguard - a decent body, but was maybe too meaningless to include.

    Dark Bargain, Fist of Jaraxxus, Tiny Knight of Evil - discard synergies. Felt either weak, weird or maybe a little too concerning with Malchezaar's Imp.

    "Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me

    "If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me

    1
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar
    Skeleton 2010 4741 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    I actually was thinking of doing a similar thing for all the classes, so I guess I can leave out Warlock.

     

    A few things I don't agree with:

    Drain Soul doesn't need to replace Drain Life. I think it would be better to just rework Drain Life into "Deal 3 damage and heal fo 3". No lifesteal, because that was never really a focus of Warlock and only came later, which also means no scaling healing with spell damage so it won't ever become a staple.

    Searing Pain seems like a straight up nerf for no reason. There's absolutely no scenario in which I'd want to play this over [Hearthstone Card (Shadowbolt) Not Found]. having to wait for a turn to remove a minion is just not really something that has ever been played and in comparison to Corruption it just looks terrible.

    Malchezaar's Imp is too good to be a Basic card. It's a 1-mana 1/3 that would forever push Zoo into a discard niche.

    Healthstone similarly (while not a bad idea by itself) doesn't fit Classic, because Discard itself isn't really a coherent theme in the set and giving Warlock that much unconditional healing is kind of silly and doesn'T fit the class. If anything it would have to cost 4-5 mana to be balanced (and still wouldn't really fit the overall idea of how Discard decks play)

     

    Just in general I feel like you're putting too many cards from other expansions in there, instead of trying to actually rework existing cards into something more fitting. Remember, the idea of the core set is to introduce players to the theme of a class and what they usually are expected to do, not just use vanilla cards.

    Blood Imp could easily be reworked into something like a 1/1 with Battlecry: give a friendly demon +1/+1 (which emphasizes the Zoo and demon theme)

    Siphon Soul is still a staple when removal is needed so removing it makes very little sense. Warlock has always been about minion destruction and this embodies the concept.

    Removing Jaraxxus I could technically agree with although I would rather see them rework it into something not completely garbage, seeing how Classic Legendaries are actually supposed to see play (and Fizzlebang would never, because he is just too damn slow and was also printed within the context of Inspire)

    Bane of Doom and Call of the Void could similarly be reworked into something basic but more useful. Make Bane target minions only and buff its damage to 3 (still useless, but still works with the class identity) and Call into a 2-mana "Add two random Demons to your hand" which makes it comparable to Thoughtsteal and also supports the Hand theme of Warlock without being entirely pointless.

    I also think Pit Lord shouldn't rotate because the idea of Self damage in exchange for bigger stats is central to Warlock and it's fine if the card itself is bad (part of the core set should be to teach new players which cards aren't worth running)

     

    Things I like:

    Felguard needs to go, Self mana burn will never be a thing, at least not in a tempo sense. They could add lifesteal, but the card would still be bad and it would be a bit too complex for a core card. Better to replace it with something else, although I don't think your idea of Impeccable Doomguard really does the trick. I a better idea would be a taunt demon with self-damage (maybe even the same card but with 3 damage selfharm instead of mana burn?)

    I really like your idea for Summoning Portal. The current version is not only pointless but also somewhat of a ticking timebomb for potential abuse. However, I would HoF the current one for Wild shenanigans and come up with a new replacement with your effect.

     

    I tried having fun once.

    It was awful.

    2
  • KANSAS's Avatar
    Old God Fanatic 1745 2912 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

    I actually was thinking of doing a similar thing for all the classes, so I guess I can leave out Warlock.

     

    A few things I don't agree with:

     

    Searing Pain seems like a straight up nerf for no reason. There's absolutely no scenario in which I'd want to play this over Shadowbolt. having to wait for a turn to remove a minion is just not really something that has ever been played and in comparison to Corruption it just looks terrible.

     

     

    Searing Pain says at the start of the next turn, not the start of your next turn. So the minion would be dead before it gets a chance to attack again. The only way this is different than just "deal 4 damage" is if you want to clear a taunt or something. 

    Honestly though I would just leave Shadow Bolt in the basic set, there is nothing wrong with the card. It is a lot fairer and simpler than Searing Pain. I really don't see the need for the change.

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

    0
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar
    Skeleton 2010 4741 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    So just to let you know (and to shamelessly self-advertise) I did my ow Core Set overall for all the classes and just referenced your post in the Warlock section, I hope that's fine with you.

    Here's the thing in case you're interested:

    https://outof.cards/forums/hearthstone/hearthstone-general/3590-a-custom-core-set-overhaul

    I tried having fun once.

    It was awful.

    0
  • h0lysatan's Avatar
    Zombie 1065 790 Posts Joined 12/03/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Not agree with Healthstone, Because Sacrificial Pact is exist, and it fits how Warlock should be.

    Another suggestion I'm trying to throw is, how about instead of focusing more on discard and damaging self, use our own mana crystal.

    For example, Spell Card like "Destroy a mana crystal, draw 3 cards" or something like that.

     

    Knowledge is Power

    0
  • Neoguli's Avatar
    Duskrider 880 599 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Made some changes, including your feedback. It was very helpful, as it was a challenge to revamp a classic set for a class within 4 hours or so, because that's how this set was created. I retunred a lot of cards that were previously HoF'd and went for Kil'Jaeden, but I still kept Drain Soul.

    "Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me

    "If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me

    0
  • dapperdog's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 1890 5610 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Just a few observations:

    Impeccable doomguard - I like the idea. But I dont get why you didnt just give Pit Lord taunt, since every pit lord in the game have taunt for some reason. Seemed a better fit than this card.

    Drain soul - Might as well have just buff Drain Life to 2 mana. There's really no need to directly drag expansion cards into the set. Its not what team5 have been doing, so in that spirit I guess we shouldn't neither.

    Kil'Jaeden - I like Kil'Jaeden as a concept, though not the effect since its nearly unplayable and I cant really say what this will do to Zephrys the Great. Maybe its time to just buff Lord Jaraxxus to an 8 mana HERO card, that grants no armor and sets health to 15 as a battlecry. And make him immune to Sacrificial Pact. Its been funny in the past, but time to move on with this joke.

     

    Other than that, its a good attempt. I like the concept of warlock cards being more attrition based, or turn-based rather than immediate effect. Perhaps a card that deals x damage over several turns? or a card that targets friendly minions, "after 2 turns, transform this minion into x". Maybe you can expand on that too.

    0
  • Neoguli's Avatar
    Duskrider 880 599 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    It was something Searing Pain was supposed to show in some way, aswell as one iteration of Kil'Jaeden which was about dealing damage to all enemy minions at the end of each turn. Rejected that version, because I didn't feel it was flashy enough for new players to get excitement from playing a legendary card.

    "Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me

    "If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me

    0
  • Leave a Comment

    You must be signed in to leave a comment. Sign in here.