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Hearthstone | Posted by | 5 years, 9 months ago
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Where do you get information about meta reports, deck winrates and so?

I used Hsreplay.net, I like it that it counts average match duration, frequency of each deck, and so on, but I recently realized free accounts only see the data of Bronze to Gold, which is quite uninteresting. I recently discovered metastats.net, but it's not clear where they get the data from, and some decks have few tracked games, so they are statistically not that reliable. And in reports like the ones from Tempostorm and Vicious Syndicate sometimes you read very different opinions, for example according to Vicious Syndicate Dragon Hunter is a strong deck with room to improve but according to Tempostorm is a Tier 3 deck, being generous, while Galakrond Priest is a Tier 1 deck according to Tempostorm, but Tier 3 according to VS... At least both seem to agree that Aggro Demon Hunter, Tempo/Enrage Warrior and Highlander Hunter are good decks.

So, how to bring order to the chaos? How do you inform yourself? Or do you trust only on your own feeling of the meta?

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  • I used Hsreplay.net, I like it that it counts average match duration, frequency of each deck, and so on, but I recently realized free accounts only see the data of Bronze to Gold, which is quite uninteresting. I recently discovered metastats.net, but it's not clear where they get the data from, and some decks have few tracked games, so they are statistically not that reliable. And in reports like the ones from Tempostorm and Vicious Syndicate sometimes you read very different opinions, for example according to Vicious Syndicate Dragon Hunter is a strong deck with room to improve but according to Tempostorm is a Tier 3 deck, being generous, while Galakrond Priest is a Tier 1 deck according to Tempostorm, but Tier 3 according to VS... At least both seem to agree that Aggro Demon Hunter, Tempo/Enrage Warrior and Highlander Hunter are good decks.

    So, how to bring order to the chaos? How do you inform yourself? Or do you trust only on your own feeling of the meta?

  • I just read Vicious Syndicate for data-based reports.

    I used to read Team Rankstar too, but that's not there anymore.

    HSR is a good website for glimpses here and there on raw dat, but Wild is not very well covered, especially if you don't have Gold subscription.

    • Quote From RavenSunHS

      I just read Vicious Syndicate for data-based reports.

      I used to read Team Rankstar too, but that's not there anymore.

      HSR is a good website for glimpses here and there on raw dat, but Wild is not very well covered, especially if you don't have Gold subscription.

      You know rankstar will be back on a new website right? They partnered with someone else. I don't remember who though. 

       

      @OP: hsreplay is best used for mulligan statistics. Which cards to keep and which not.

      ViciousSyndicate.com have the best standard meta reports. They also do a wild report every now and then if you're interested.

      If you're interested in wild, check Renojackson hs' Twitter account. He's busy making a new form of meta reports for the format and his team has always covered that format the best. 

       

      Tempostorm is generally not a very reliable source. They often seem to base rankings on their gut feeling rather than actual analysis. ViciousSyndicate are more reliable in that regard and usually more accurate.

  • Non premium HsReplays is completely useless, even premium has huge deck recognition problems. Winrate calculation methods are misleading. Use it for some general info and mulligan.

    Metastats is obsolete.

    Tempostorm is completely false and random, no data, just biased feelings. Wild meta reports are slightly more useful, because nobody does much better with low wild data.

    Vs is the way to go. The most comprehensive methods of data interpretation (expected winrates...). The only minor issue if you don't follow their live data is that reports are a week old.

    Teamrankstar is now transitioning and it's a good place for wild info.

  • I just read the Reddit and see what class/deck people are complaining about the most and go from there.

  • Vicious Syndicate is the way to go, those guys really know their stuff. Their suggested builds for meta decks are very effective as well.

    I really don't trust HS Replay, their meta picture isn't very accurate. For example, it ranks Murloc Paladin as a Tier 1 deck when in reality it's close to Tier 3. 

  • I didn't know Team RankStar is taking form elsewhere, it's good to know, thanks.

    I still think VS reports are better, because they are data-based, but since they make Wild Reports only every now and then, it's always good to hear the opinion of dedicated Wild players trying to write up regular reports in a team (individual reports are inevitably biased IMO, at least a team can give a more reliable insight, even if their tiers might not actually represent the reality of the meta).

    • Quote From RavenSunHS

      I didn't know Team RankStar is taking form elsewhere, it's good to know, thanks.

      I still think VS reports are better, because they are data-based, but since they make Wild Reports only every now and then, it's always good to hear the opinion of dedicated Wild players trying to write up regular reports in a team (individual reports are inevitably biased IMO, at least a team can give a more reliable insight, even if their tiers might not actually represent the reality of the meta).

      Yeah I completely agree. I prefer vS' meta reports over everything else, but Reno's team provides good insight on what's going on on the wild ladder. Even if not always fully factually correct and unbiased, it's still really useful information.

       

      Quote From Tetsuo

      Vicious Syndicate is the way to go, those guys really know their stuff. Their suggested builds for meta decks are very effective as well.

      I really don't trust HS Replay, their meta picture isn't very accurate. For example, it ranks Murloc Paladin as a Tier 1 deck when in reality it's close to Tier 3. 

      That's because hsreplay's meta page looks at nothing but winrate. Aggressive decks will always have a higher win percentage than they actually should have due to having a lower skill floor. This makes decks like murloc paladin look better than they are because they stomp unrefined and meme decks which are often played at lower levels. 

       

      And to further add to my previous post, I'm kind of embarrassed that I forgot to mention Targus' reports from this very website. Every week they get you a good summary of all of hsreplay's data. Even if you don't have hsreplay premium the article provides you with a lot of insight in good builds and what decks are proving to be the strongest at the higher levels.

      • Quote From iWatchUSleep

        And to further add to my previous post, I'm kind of embarrassed that I forgot to mention Targus' reports from this very website. Every week they get you a good summary of all of hsreplay's data. Even if you don't have hsreplay premium the article provides you with a lot of insight in good builds and what decks are proving to be the strongest at the higher levels.

        Are those still happening? I've found them a really useful distillation of the hsreplay data, but noticed they've kinda tailed off over the last few weeks. 

        Hope he posts them again soon.

      • Quote From iWatchUSleep

        And to further add to my previous post, I'm kind of embarrassed that I forgot to mention Targus' reports from this very website. Every week they get you a good summary of all of hsreplay's data. Even if you don't have hsreplay premium the article provides you with a lot of insight in good builds and what decks are proving to be the strongest at the higher levels.

        Don't worry, I'm not missing any of Targus' reports ;)

  • The Competitive Hearthstone subbreddit is the most constant stream of good information I've found beside VS. If you guys are interested in good info on the meta, that is probably the best place I've seen atm.

  • I agree that hsreplay is not really very reassuring without premium on, since its only in premium that you can see a variety of stats and legend stats (which is obviously more valuable). But its still the best for me since I prefer a general view of the meta.

    I believe Viper has once on stream talked about this subject. His opinions is that VS is very biased towards certain decks and he finds them not as representative as hsreplay.

    All in all, if you play hearthstone, you should have a general feel of the game enough to not trust stats at face value. An extreme example would be Hand of Gul'dan where the drawn win rate is very high but the played win rate is very low in zoo. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

    Stats isn't everything. Some cards are deceptively important, like Beaming Sidekick in a tempo dhunter list, or Faerie Dragon against mages, rogues, etc. You can't play hearthstone solely based on stats.

    Friendly
    • Quote From dapperdog

      Stats isn't everything. Some cards are deceptively important, like Beaming Sidekick in a tempo dhunter list, or Faerie Dragon against mages, rogues, etc. You can't play hearthstone solely based on stats.

      Sure, but stats are valuable. If every day I play 6-8 matches and watch 6-8 more matches on stream, my perception of the meta is very limited; if I can find stats of thousands of games a day that improves my awareness of the meta. And, in case, I want to craft an expensive deck, I'd like to know how strong it is in the current meta. The more (reliable) stats I have, the better. 

  • I personaly use HSreplay. I feel they are generally the most accurate especially withh premium, because they have the largest pool of data. That being said my biggest problem with them is that it seems to take forever for the data to update. With old lists still seemingly being relevant for too long. 

  • Historically I've like metastats, but recently I've been just playing a lot of meme decks to have fun rather than the competition aspect. 

    Friendly

  • Bring back the Targus meta report! I enjoy reading them, it makes the meta feel like such an awesome battle between the classes :D (or maybe that's just me xD)