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In case you missed it: https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-133/
So Hunter confirmed as the most popular class in the meta, yet Rogue seems to be able to resist, despite the nerfs. But I guess Rogue players knew that already.
What do you think? Do you see more margin of development after the mid-term buffs? Or are we approaching staleness already, no matter what?
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In case you missed it: https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-133/
So Hunter confirmed as the most popular class in the meta, yet Rogue seems to be able to resist, despite the nerfs. But I guess Rogue players knew that already.
What do you think? Do you see more margin of development after the mid-term buffs? Or are we approaching staleness already, no matter what?
Quote From RavenSunHS In case you missed it: https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-133/
So Hunter confirmed as the most popular class in the meta, yet Rogue seems to be able to resist, despite the nerfs. But I guess Rogue players knew that already.
What do you think? Do you see more margin of development after the mid-term buffs? Or are we approaching staleness already, no matter what?
One thing to note is that in the Legend rank we have a very close race here with Hunter and Warrior in a dead heat, Mage and Rogue right next to them, and Shaman close enough to matter as well. The "hunter wins!" is mostly in the lower ranks. It suggests that Hunter is being seen as the cheapest/easiest class to rank up with but it's NOT the strongest.
I think there's still room to build off of this meta over at that top end. Many of these decks are still being figured out as far as who beats who and tech options. We're at the point we would normally be at 1 month into the expansion, where most of the tiers are set though their cards aren't solid and there may still be a few surprises coming later on.
For the majority of the playerbase, staleness should be just now creeping in. For those more dedicated and professional, this is probably a very interesting time, especially since the decks themselves aren't easy to master.
A few things to note:
1. At the moment, it looks like I might be eating crow about the buffs. I feared it would either be worthless or game breaking and so far they've done neither. Some of those cards have made new decks and those decks have mixed in to make a pretty diverse meta.
2. While I'm sure a lot of folks hate Hunter right now, the Midrange hunter variant is extremely cheap using only Zul'jin and two Master's Call: the rest is literally common cards. So we not only have a meta that gets complex and mixed at the upper end, but there's a cheap deck for new players to grab and go.
3. We're a few weeks before the announcement of the next expansion. Boomsday was announceed on the 10th of July. So we literally have 2 weeks of this meta before its' time to look at new cards.
So yeah, the meta itself isn't stale but it will be for the majority in the lower ranks. But there won't be much time for everyone to get bothered. Between the single player content and the buffs I think Blizzard figured out how to basically nuke the stale period of an expansion while increasing revenue, without the playerbase going into a riot.
Got to admit, the new guard did well this run. Now to see how well they handle non-rotation expansions and how they'll mix up the single player content (because I think the Dungeon Run cow has been milked dry at this point)
I think this is pretty much what I already guessed from personal experience.
It has basically been Hunterstone again for a little while now.
But I've avoided saying it outright since you usually get all the diehard naysayers come out of the woodwork. But I think it's been fairly obvious for some time.
And I agree, the nerfs to Rogue seemed to do little-to-nothing...
At the moment, I find ladder very annoying because there isn't a comfortable nexus between Bomb Warrior and Bomb Hunter.
Decks that benefited from buffs, and would theoretically farm Warrior are, themselves, farmed by Bomb Hunter.
Decks that beat Hunter are often beaten by Warrior, unless they are teched towards Warrior, which hurts the Hunter match up.
2 Classes are DOA, priest & warlock.
Your sort of left with coin flips of Mech Token Druid and Murwock Shaman, neither of which feel super good to play IMO.
I am glad that we're towards the end of this cycle. It has been a good and interesting one, but it's time to move on. Truthfully, I haven't even had the desire to ladder for about 2 months.
I've stopped taking the Data Reaper Report seriously since they released Rise of Shadows because from one week to the next it's pretty much different. Last week Hunter was obviously very popular, but today all I'm facing are warriors. It's like tug-of-war. Hunter gets popular, then people counter that with Rogue, then people counter that with Warrior, then people counter that with Mage or Hunter again. Bomb Hunter keeps returning because it counters both conjuring mage and warriors but it's weak to Rogue decks. They always say "the meta plays against itself" and that's what's happening, just at a faster, repetitive rate than I've seen before (I haven't been playing the game for more than 2 years, so maybe it's been like this before). So, Monday Warriorstone, Tuesday Hunterstone, Wednesday Roguestone.
And here i am enjoying to play mech priest at r10. It's probably worse than most other decks but I can at least play priest this way without getting stomped for 3 matches in a row
I'm just glad rogue wasn't completely butchered by its nerfs. Hooktusk rogue is extremely fun to play. Shame about the high amount of warriors though. Never liked playing against control warrior.
Quote From iWatchUSleep I'm just glad rogue wasn't completely butchered by its nerfs. Hooktusk rogue is extremely fun to play. Shame about the high amount of warriors though. Never liked playing against control warrior.
Life is too short to play against Control Warrior...
There are also some under-the-radar decks that aren't on VS that are a lot of fun and viable. For example, the play rate of Big Shaman dropped low enough that they aren't mentioning it on there, yet I'm having a blast and having a positive win rate with the deck at rank 5.
Overall, this meta has taken longer to get stale than any other. Blizz did a good job so far this year. Hopefully they keep it up.
Quote From Xarkkal There are also some under-the-radar decks that aren't on VS that are a lot of fun and viable. For example, the play rate of Big Shaman dropped low enough that they aren't mentioning it on there, yet I'm having a blast and having a positive win rate with the deck at rank 5.
Overall, this meta has taken longer to get stale than any other. Blizz did a good job so far this year. Hopefully they keep it up.
it's a good thing to remember that the report isn't so much reporting the best decks as they are the most popular and how strong THOSE are against the rest. It's basically a mark of what you'll face in the meta and how they stand against each other.
This meta, though, has a LOT of room for counterdecks and counter meta play. Though it's very bad for folks that want to win 100% of the time and for folks with dedicated decks they MUST play for their own sakes.
So it's not that great as a Johnny unless you are Legend, but Spikes should be having a wonderful time at any point in the ladder.
As far as staleness, the single player, nerf and buff runs did a great job with that. By the time people got bored of things the nerfs were in. We didn't even have time to start complaining a before the buffs came in, and many were playing the single player (or grumbling while waiting for each wing) too much to worry about either.
And note that we're already getting the first hints of the next expansion, so we can barely get out the first reports of the new meta and discussions of it before it's time to GET ON THE HYPE TRAIN!
And note that we're already getting the first hints of the next expansion, so we can barely get out the first reports of the new meta and discussions of it before it's time to GET ON THE HYPE TRAIN!
Do you think this time around the hype train can maybe derail a little and maybe people can "theorycraft" quietly and alone, isolated from the world
Quote From tony And note that we're already getting the first hints of the next expansion, so we can barely get out the first reports of the new meta and discussions of it before it's time to GET ON THE HYPE TRAIN!
Do you think this time around the hype train can maybe derail a little and maybe people can "theorycraft" quietly and alone, isolated from the world
That's easy to do. Just don't look at the front page (myself I link to the forum so I have to purposely click there, which I usually forget) and don't watch all of those card reviews that go around which is easy given that those reviewers also put out normal content AND there's 1000000 other videos put up every day to watch instead.
But the thing is that people don't theorycraft alone because they don't really want to. People love hype and love previewing things like cards. They want to learn strategies as soon as they can and apply them. Most aren't innovators or theorycrafters: that's just not what they do. So they'll group together and get on the train. Individuals don't have to. They can join the hype or derail.. You can do whatever you want but you can't really demand the public to follow your faith. You do what you do but they do what they do. And in the end:
GET READY FOR THE HYPE, TONY! THE HYPE TRAIN IS COMIN'! WOO WOO!
Quote From Dakarian
That's easy to do. Just don't look at the front page (myself I link to the forum so I have to purposely click there, which I usually forget) and don't watch all of those card reviews that go around which is easy given that those reviewers also put out normal content AND there's 1000000 other videos put up every day to watch instead.
GET READY FOR THE HYPE, TONY! THE HYPE TRAIN IS COMIN'! WOO WOO!
I already ignore it all, I was just hoping maybe there was a possibility that people this time around would get into some other type of hype. I suspect I am not like most players and I don't get into the theorycrafting, mostly because it's all so.... theoretical. I like being able to try things out and experiment with real games. Lots of people, I think, get into both. So, of course, I hope all the theorists have fun theorizing if that's their thing.
I'm really enjoying the current meta. There is a pretty decent selection of decks, not a ton of polarization, and some of the top meta decks are really fun in my opinion. I love bomb warrior and cyclone mage.
It makes sense hunter is the most popular class among all ranks despite it not being "the best deck" or even close to it. Both of it's decks counter warrior well enough which is one of the top decks, and mech hunter is the easiest deck in the meta and one of the few true face decks. Mech hunter gets worse the higher the skill level goes (hasn't won a single match in GM) but on ladder the warrior matchup and non optimal counterplay keeps it afloat. It's definitely not hunterstone, but there are a lot of hunters.
Rogue is still super strong. As a lot of people thought, Rogue was so good it could be nerfed hard and still be a top class. Vendetta/Shark and Tempo Rogue are both great. Hooktusk Rogue seems mediocre to me but it seems to have the better winrates for Rogue decks. Surprising because it's warrior matchup is pretty bad but I also think the lists are more often refined whereas some of the other Rogue decks are non optimal on top of it having a higher skill ceiling.
I think the meta is pretty much figured out. I think there might still be something there with shaman, but I guess if nobody has found it by now it just might still be lacking.
The only thing the Rogue nerfs changed was the shift in power from that class to Hunters. Since then, there's still a triumvirate of Warrior-Hunter-Rogue fighting it out in the meta.
The buffs served as the meta-shaker, with Mages and Shamans rising because of the buffs to Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Thunderhead. It breathed life to Paladins and Priests too.
It's a pretty diverse meta, and I love it. It's hard to climb, sure, but that's what makes it fun.
Thanks for the link, I like reading the reports but usually forget to look it up.
I can only agree with what was already said: I'm experiencing the healthiest meta since I've started playing in 2015. So much diversity, so many fun and viable decks. Even niche decks stand a chance because Control Warrior grants you enough time to get your stuff together. I'm currently having so much fun with Face Warrior, Pogo Rogue, Jepetto Hunter, Secret Pally, sometimes even Betrug Lock. I love it!
And on top of that, Blizzard really did a great job this year. Between the rotation, Dalaran, the buffs and now the new / HoFed cards there wasn't even the slightest chance of getting bored. I'm really curious if they will be able to keep up this pace. The constant changes make the game more expensive, but I guess it's worth it.
Side note: I want to thank Dakarian and Skorpyon for their contribution to this forum. You are writing excellent posts which are clever, easy to read and 100% high quality. The two of you and Kovachut are the members I would follow if there was such a function implemented yet. Keep it up!
Warrior and hunter totally dominate ladder play. Hunter is even worse than the undertaker hunter from 5 years ago. It would not be that bad if the decks were difficult to play, but they are to forgiving. Even very bad players can navigate it to 90-95% effectiveness. I think that is wrong.
As for DK heros, either give all classes one or none.
I think the meta is very good atm. Even for a mostly single class player like me, I have enough interesting stuff to try as mage. I fool around with jepetto, galaxy spell, cyclones, tempo variants, mechs, otk's its all viable. For instance, lately I just wanted to try a cyclone/mech/giant fusion deck so I put in the giants, conjures calling, a lot of cheap mechs, some card draw, some silence, some aoe and some antonidas and tried it out on level 10. Won first 3 games with it. Had a lot of fun too. Then realized the cyclones were not doing much in the deck so I replaced them by more mechs. Even more fun! Feels good to out-mech a mech hunter lol.
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