In the other hand, pure control decks usually takes over 15 turns or even deck out to finish games so companies decided matches in the modern era should not take longer then an average of "X" time. To acomplish that, they implemented finisher cards, OTK, combo strategies all with powerfull effects that are very hard to disrupt. For example, how do you even disrupt a Warmother's Call deck? Unless you are playing Ionia with Deny, you just can't interact with it.
I don't think the prevalence of "hybrid archetypes" means we cannot talk about pure archetypes. Even if they're never implemented in the most pure way possible, the pure Aggro, Control, and Combo archetypes (and their associated rock-paper-scissors relationship) are useful guides for discussing card games.
But this idea that including powerful finishers means you're not playing pure control seems a bit wrong to me. Control doesn't win strictly on the basis of disruption - that's just how they get to their late game value cards. Eventually those decks have to win somehow, and they usually do so with big, powerful units or super expensive but high-damaging spells.
On the matter of Warmother's Call, Ionia being the only region that can interact with it is probably a case of bad balance, but it doesn't mean pure control can't exist.
If you don't believe me, i challenge you to come up with a theoretical deck that doesn't use a single finisher and relies only on disruptions cards in today's meta. I don't think its going to work. Every deck should be build around cards that optimize its own win condition first and foremost. Disruption cards are added later to replace prior choices when needed, in order to increase the winrate agaisnt whats being played in the current meta. Those disruption cards may not even be needed agaisnt a particular meta, and certainly are not exclusively played in control decks only. Even agro decks can play the disruption game and tech in control cards agaisnt very specific matchups. Secret Eater and Counter Spell are very good examples of disruption cards that were played in both aggro and OTK decks.
It's certainly true that control is harder to build than aggro in the early days of any meta, because control wants to be responsive to the meta and you have to know what aggro and combo decks are doing before you can disrupt them. That said, here is a deck I think fits the basic definition: https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/btdipi1la4s85h9vvafg
Now, I don't know how relevant that deck is in today's metagame (I've seen more popular versions like https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/btce2k9la4s85h8qvs6g that run Riptide Rex[/runecard, Jack, the Winner, and Atrocity). But the core of the deck in both cases is the same, and even with the addition of the big finishers, the strategy is the same - clear the enemy board a lot while you rack up increasingly powerful The Undying's. The addition of those finishers is helpful - Jack gives you more removal tools, Riptide Rex gives you a board clear that also hits the enemy Nexus, and Atrocity helps shore the deck up against even greedier control decks - but I think the core represents a fairly pure control strategy.
The deck focus on keeping Heimerdinger alive with Bastion, then Turret Spam. It mostly wins because the opponent can't keep up with turrets, but the main focus is to buy time until Ezreal levels up. In very long games, Shards of the Mountain generates enough Gem cards for an OTK. Hush works very well alongside both champions.
I am experimenting a great deal of sucess in my ranked games, so I think the deck is very well optimized already, but maybe someone could catch some improvement.
They can just release new cards and champions for existing regions and hopefully introduce Hearthstone style adventures. The game really need some form of solo content beside fighting the IA.
I think a good compromise is that your minions can only deal damage as high as your tavern tier, so if you're tier 3 and you shifter (or galakrond) into a t6 minion it still benefits you in the long run but not so much as doing stupid amounts of excess damage. A particularly egregious game I encountered was when I was facing AFK on turn 4. She picked shifter and it turned into imp mother. Imp mother then proceeded to spawn 2 malganis and the 3/9 void taunt minion. (I attacked with my first minion, imp mother hit my unstable ghoul and procced, then procced on ghouls death rattle. Took 23 damage on turn 4 as Eudora. Never had a chance to recover. But with that being said I never really considered the tavern tier on minions to be that bad outside of a handful of egregious offenses, and feel like extending the game by even 3 turns will make most builds obsolete. Even divine shield murlocs with poisonous would pale in comparison with a macaw/swiper/goldrin build if it got to the point where the swipers were able to kill 3 at a time, or if a dragon build has enough time to triple a kalecgos and double up on nadinas.
I've already submitted this card as I stumbled onto the competition with time running thin, but would still love some thoughts or feedback.
Both druids and Warriors like to leverage their big minions, and this is a flexible tool to use those big minions to better control the board. I think it's comparable to Charge, but with some extra upsides when using it alongside faster minions with rush, and can give your big minion an extra attack on a single turn.
I think it'll be Shurima in Feb. 2021 and The Void in Aug. 2021. That really only leaves Ixtal as the remaining region. The problem though is that Ixtal has far fewer champion representation than other regions.
I'd hate for Ixtal to be left out of this game, because there's a lot of potential the LoR team can make with the jungle environment that it's known for. Maybe they'll shuffle around some champions in the lore to settle there or maybe it can become a joint region with Shurima like P&Z is.
I also expect Shurima and Void to be the new regions for next year, and in that order. And yeah they'll start running out of new regions after that so they'll need to figure something out.
I'd love the chance to play a version of BGs where each minion deals 1 (and tokens deal 0). I hope they don't just throw it into the abyss if the internal feedback is too conflicted to implement it in the live game. A test server would be useful in this particular situation.
I know Spacey Sketcher is OP as every targon deck ever uses it almost, but i have no idea how to use it. In this particular deck, what do you discard? And what do you aim to invoke? The snake? Double stun for an attack turn?
As always it depends on your deck, matchup your situation...
For example a great Evergreen to fetch for is the 0 mana 2/1 challenger but it is not always right to pull it.
About the what to discard question. That card that you are eighter unable to use for very long or that you simply don't need right now.
In the end you need experience to make the right decisions with the sketcher and no guide can solve something as complex as situational decisions
In the end : practice makes perfect, or being draven
I know Spacey Sketcher is OP as every targon deck ever uses it almost, but i have no idea how to use it. In this particular deck, what do you discard? And what do you aim to invoke? The snake? Double stun for an attack turn?
Branching Out - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
I didn’t pick anyone, I hope that was ok. =/
(Plzzzzz mods let it be ok!!)
Branching Out - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Hey, uhm, I choose a custom emblem for the expansion, what expansion do I pick when submitting the card?
Help to optimize my deck V2.0
Two thoughts that come immediately to mind are dropping 3x Jury-Rig, 3x Solari Soldier in exchange for 3x Zaunite Urchin, 3x Spacey Sketcher.
I also like trying to squeeze in Starshaping, but I don't see an obviously slot for it.
Undeath and Necromancy, The Story of the Scourge and Forsaken: Traversing Azeroth
Thanks Hydra :) I'm glad you liked it. Can't wait to talk more lore on the show next week.
Undeath and Necromancy, The Story of the Scourge and Forsaken: Traversing Azeroth
Oh yes, this was a very brief summery of a story that has started almost as far back as the original Warcraft games, so a lot has happened. lol
Help to optimize my deck V2.0
Didn't you try to use a Tri-beam Improbulator?
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
Aurelion Sol - The Star Forger: Card breakdown
I don't think the prevalence of "hybrid archetypes" means we cannot talk about pure archetypes. Even if they're never implemented in the most pure way possible, the pure Aggro, Control, and Combo archetypes (and their associated rock-paper-scissors relationship) are useful guides for discussing card games.
But this idea that including powerful finishers means you're not playing pure control seems a bit wrong to me. Control doesn't win strictly on the basis of disruption - that's just how they get to their late game value cards. Eventually those decks have to win somehow, and they usually do so with big, powerful units or super expensive but high-damaging spells.
On the matter of Warmother's Call, Ionia being the only region that can interact with it is probably a case of bad balance, but it doesn't mean pure control can't exist.
It's certainly true that control is harder to build than aggro in the early days of any meta, because control wants to be responsive to the meta and you have to know what aggro and combo decks are doing before you can disrupt them. That said, here is a deck I think fits the basic definition: https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/btdipi1la4s85h9vvafg
Now, I don't know how relevant that deck is in today's metagame (I've seen more popular versions like https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/btce2k9la4s85h8qvs6g that run Riptide Rex[/runecard, Jack, the Winner, and Atrocity). But the core of the deck in both cases is the same, and even with the addition of the big finishers, the strategy is the same - clear the enemy board a lot while you rack up increasingly powerful The Undying's. The addition of those finishers is helpful - Jack gives you more removal tools, Riptide Rex gives you a board clear that also hits the enemy Nexus, and Atrocity helps shore the deck up against even greedier control decks - but I think the core represents a fairly pure control strategy.
BADCARDNAMEHelp to optimize my deck V2.0
This is the third deck i am about to push into the meta: Heimerdinger / Ezreal / OTK
The deck focus on keeping Heimerdinger alive with Bastion, then Turret Spam.
It mostly wins because the opponent can't keep up with turrets, but the main focus is to buy time until Ezreal levels up.
In very long games, Shards of the Mountain generates enough Gem cards for an OTK.
Hush works very well alongside both champions.
I am experimenting a great deal of sucess in my ranked games, so I think the deck is very well optimized already, but maybe someone could catch some improvement.
The flex slots are:
3x Jury-Rig
3x Solari Soldier
3x Guiding Touch
1x Hush
I don't think anything else is replaceable.
Thoughts?
The void or Shurima
They can just release new cards and champions for existing regions and hopefully introduce Hearthstone style adventures. The game really need some form of solo content beside fighting the IA.
Blizzard is Trying Different Health Scaling and Card Tier Damage for Battlegrounds in Playtesting
I think a good compromise is that your minions can only deal damage as high as your tavern tier, so if you're tier 3 and you shifter (or galakrond) into a t6 minion it still benefits you in the long run but not so much as doing stupid amounts of excess damage. A particularly egregious game I encountered was when I was facing AFK on turn 4. She picked shifter and it turned into imp mother. Imp mother then proceeded to spawn 2 malganis and the 3/9 void taunt minion. (I attacked with my first minion, imp mother hit my unstable ghoul and procced, then procced on ghouls death rattle. Took 23 damage on turn 4 as Eudora. Never had a chance to recover. But with that being said I never really considered the tavern tier on minions to be that bad outside of a handful of egregious offenses, and feel like extending the game by even 3 turns will make most builds obsolete. Even divine shield murlocs with poisonous would pale in comparison with a macaw/swiper/goldrin build if it got to the point where the swipers were able to kill 3 at a time, or if a dragon build has enough time to triple a kalecgos and double up on nadinas.
Blizzard is Trying Different Health Scaling and Card Tier Damage for Battlegrounds in Playtesting
Restore 5 health with every tavern upgrade.
People wouldn't die too quickly and the game would be more fun for everybody
Undeath and Necromancy, The Story of the Scourge and Forsaken: Traversing Azeroth
Awesome article. Thanks A LOT!
Branching Out - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Hi Everyone,
I've already submitted this card as I stumbled onto the competition with time running thin, but would still love some thoughts or feedback.
Both druids and Warriors like to leverage their big minions, and this is a flexible tool to use those big minions to better control the board. I think it's comparable to Charge, but with some extra upsides when using it alongside faster minions with rush, and can give your big minion an extra attack on a single turn.
The void or Shurima
I also expect Shurima and Void to be the new regions for next year, and in that order. And yeah they'll start running out of new regions after that so they'll need to figure something out.
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
I love playing against priest, nothing beats losing to the cards you need, because they can´t make a proper deck with their own win con.
Undeath and Necromancy, The Story of the Scourge and Forsaken: Traversing Azeroth
As a non-WoW player, it is always an immense pleasure to read your lore articles! Great work as always Goliath!!
Undeath and Necromancy, The Story of the Scourge and Forsaken: Traversing Azeroth
Amazing write up Goliath, it was a blast
Undeath and Necromancy, The Story of the Scourge and Forsaken: Traversing Azeroth
Epic! Great write up! Thanks Goliath
Blizzard is Trying Different Health Scaling and Card Tier Damage for Battlegrounds in Playtesting
I'd love the chance to play a version of BGs where each minion deals 1 (and tokens deal 0). I hope they don't just throw it into the abyss if the internal feedback is too conflicted to implement it in the live game. A test server would be useful in this particular situation.
Dragon Focused Decks
As always it depends on your deck, matchup your situation...
For example a great Evergreen to fetch for is the 0 mana 2/1 challenger but it is not always right to pull it.
About the what to discard question. That card that you are eighter unable to use for very long or that you simply don't need right now.
In the end you need experience to make the right decisions with the sketcher and no guide can solve something as complex as situational decisions
In the end : practice makes perfect, or being draven
Dragon Focused Decks
I never use spacey sketcher, just because I’m not a fan of the discard factor
Dragon Focused Decks
I know Spacey Sketcher is OP as every targon deck ever uses it almost, but i have no idea how to use it. In this particular deck, what do you discard? And what do you aim to invoke? The snake? Double stun for an attack turn?
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: Hieroglyphkz#1359
Region: NA
Trade Only?: Yes, I can go first. I also need to spectate a friend so maybe you could play for a win after
Undeath and Necromancy, The Story of the Scourge and Forsaken: Traversing Azeroth
Well done Goliath!!!!!!!!!