But control should be able to beat decks by disrupting their strategies
I have mixed feelings about this statement.
In one hand, i agree this is the core concept of what pure control decks are trying to do. If you watch the video linked bellow my signature, you will see i play a priest deck that has no treats or win conditions, only disruption and value generation cards. The entire plan of my deck is to disrupt the opponent's strategy until they run out of resources.
In the other hand, pure control decks usually takes over 15 turns or even deck out to finish games so companies decided matches in the modern era should not take longer then an average of "X" time. To acomplish that, they implemented finisher cards, OTK, combo strategies all with powerfull effects that are very hard to disrupt. For example, how do you even disrupt a Warmother's Call deck? Unless you are playing Ionia with Deny, you just can't interact with it.
If you don't believe me, i challenge you to come up with a theoretical deck that doesn't use a single finisher and relies only on disruptions cards in today's meta. I don't think its going to work. Every deck should be build around cards that optimize its own win condition first and foremost. Disruption cards are added later to replace prior choices when needed, in order to increase the winrate agaisnt whats being played in the current meta. Those disruption cards may not even be needed agaisnt a particular meta, and certainly are not exclusively played in control decks only. Even agro decks can play the disruption game and tech in control cards agaisnt very specific matchups. Secret Eater and Counter Spell are very good examples of disruption cards that were played in both aggro and OTK decks.
Dont get me wrong, i don't think your definition is bad or even wrong, just think isn't right either.
Okay those are both kinda the same List and I played couple of matches against it: i lost 1 out 5 matches or sth like that. The moment it gets rolling i already have their nexus burning or at least sejuani ready to level up and end these dragon player's career. Its maybe not just a gimmic but not strong enough to keep me back :)
I’ve found that with the deck I use, you can have scenarios where, as the dragons, you get knocked down bellow half health; but still pull out a pretty clear win
I think it'll be Shurima in Feb. 2021 and The Void in Aug. 2021. That really only leaves Ixtal as the remaining region. The problem though is that Ixtal has far fewer champion representation than other regions.
I'd hate for Ixtal to be left out of this game, because there's a lot of potential the LoR team can make with the jungle environment that it's known for. Maybe they'll shuffle around some champions in the lore to settle there or maybe it can become a joint region with Shurima like P&Z is.
Void will not be a region almost certainly, Nocturne is from the void and is already in SI, like teemo and Lulu from Brandle City.
I Suspect Ixtal will not be a region also, it has very few champions. Shurima should be next one and i expect that will be it atleast for now. They can always split regions in the future.
I think Riot wants to release expansions without new regions soon to stabilize the game, and considering the current model of expansions beeing released in 3 sets. After Shurima 9 regions 90 cards 9 champions in set1 makes alot of sense.
I Don't think LOR needs too many more regions, i would prefer variety in terms of card types and strategies, even hearthstone has Hero cards and Weapons and MTG has so much stuff Artifacts/Enchantments/Equipment/Planeswalkers etc.
Nocturne is not from the void I don't know were you got that from, in the lore he's a demon born from shadow magic during the rune wars.
Void will not be a region almost certainly, Nocturne is from the void and is already in SI, like teemo and Lulu from Brandle City.
I Suspect Ixtal will not be a region also, it has very few champions. Shurima should be next one and i expect that will be it atleast for now. They can always split regions in the future.
I think Riot wants to release expansions without new regions soon to stabilize the game, and considering the current model of expansions beeing released in 3 sets. After Shurima 9 regions 90 cards 9 champions in set1 makes alot of sense.
I Don't think LOR needs too many more regions, i would prefer variety in terms of card types and strategies, even hearthstone has Hero cards and Weapons and MTG has so much stuff Artifacts/Enchantments/Equipment/Planeswalkers etc.
Okay those are both kinda the same List and I played couple of matches against it: i lost 1 out 5 matches or sth like that. The moment it gets rolling i already have their nexus burning or at least sejuani ready to level up and end these dragon player's career. Its maybe not just a gimmic but not strong enough to keep me back :)
But maybe with Targon being such a great expansion maybe they'll give us something less cool for the next region like Shurima before adding the Void.
How dare you call Shurima un-cool! OK maybe the region itself isn't as lore-rich as Targon but come on: Amumu? Rammus? Reketon? Nasus? Cassiopeia? Sivir? There are some really cool champs from there.
You're also totally discounting Ixtal as the possible next region: Nidalee, Rengar, Zyra, Malphite.
Really, I think I'll be happy with whatever region they pick so long as they keep doing as good a job as they are.
Valid point. We can talk about the definition of what a "control" deck is to see if we are in the same page. I came from an era where control decks didn't have win conditions, so my definition of control comes literally from keeping the board under control, caring about efficient trades and then waiting until the oponnent runs out of resources. In modern card games, most decks have some kind of win condition, so trying to win by the old way is not a good plan anymore. I also believe combo and control are NOT mutually exclusive. A combo/OTK deck can also be a control deck. Freeze Mage is a deck that doesn't care about board state, so its not a control deck, while Shadow Reaper Anduim OTK does.
It's certainly fair to say that there's overlap between combo and control, but I don't think "keeping the board under control" is the right view for control. Both strategies want to go late into the game, and typically both include lots of tools to control the board to ensure they can reach the late game against faster, aggressive decks. The goal of a combo deck is clear - stall the game while drawing to some combo that will win you the game. But control should be able to beat decks by disrupting their strategies. Board control is part of that, but so is combo disruption. This is why the unconditional Obliterate effects and/or super cheap silence effects that you get in ASol Control decks are so powerful.
But what i am really want to talk is the fact i don't see why so many people think A.Sol is opressive. My point with this topic was to show A.Sol win condition is on par with other decks win conditions. It seems to me people are focusing way too hard on the strenght of A.Sol level up effect. But is it that different from a board full of AniviasBADCARDNAME? Or when Warmother's Call gets online? Or even when The Harrowing summons a bunch of Hecarim?
I played many games against A.sol, with all of my decks, even the meme ones, and i never felt hopless. Does anyone have numbers if A.Sol is stomping other control decks? It sure doesn't feel that way to me.
I think @skullleigh has really hit on the most compelling point with the remark about Aurelion Sol + Living Legends. This pair is pretty easy to get thanks to Starshaping and Aurelion Sol invoking exclusively from the 7+ cost pool. The result is that it's very common for an L2 Aurelion Sol to generate 30 or more mana's worth of value in a single turn.
That's certainly overkill when you're not in a control mirror, so in that sense I can see why the comparison to other late-game decks makes sense. But it's well beyond what those other decks can do in the late game. This is why I think it's important not to simply ask "Is Aurelion Sol a fair win condition" in the grand scheme of the meta, but also "Is Aurelion Sol so powerful that it makes other control win conditions irrelevant?" My gut instinct is that the answer here is yes, and I have looked over the data available to reach that conclusion, but as I indicated above, the best source of data (mobalytics stats) is hard to parse. It's certainly possible my read is incorrect.
I wouldn't mind either tbh. I love both regions very much. I would love Cho'gath and I can easily see him being in the game with a concept where he gets bigger with each kill he gets, probably a new big boi control/midrange archetype. I would equally love Rammus to be in the game just as much because I would also love a defense favored keyword instead of offense, maybe a keyword that allows him to block Elusive and Fearsome without being Elusive or 3+ attack.
Though if I had to pick one, I would have to pick Shurima. Mainly because I just want a Rammus OK emote to be in the game lmao.
What if they decide to merge both regions a la Piltover & Zaun. I know it sound crazy but think about it : Malzahar, Kassadin, Kai'sa were Shuriman humans who gained void power, we also have Rek'sai and Kog'maw who currently reside in the Shuriman continent.
I really like the idea of all minions only doing 1 damage, although something else (like lowering total hero health) would probably have to done to compensate. Regardless of what they will do, at least something has to be done so you aren't able to just randomly take absurd amounts damage because you happened to go against a guy who just powerspiked, or because a bunch of your opponent's high tier minions happened to survive with a sliver of health.
I'd personally prefer the void with Cho'gath being one of the first champions available. But maybe with Targon being such a great expansion maybe they'll give us something less cool for the next region like Shurima before adding the Void.
I find it really strange that so many people complain about Aurelion Sol Ramp, who is only good against slow control decks and very prone to bricking due to all the high cost cards, when we have things like Endure Kalista a deck that can do pretty much anything from early game aggro to mid range beatdown and have a strong finisher, not to mention one of the best draw engine in the entire game.
I've never seen anything stronger in any card game(single card combo) than an Aurelion Sol leveled up with you having the 10 mana celestial spell. I think he's fair though since getting him to level up means you are most likely winning already.
Nice observation! Single card combo i indeed can't think in anything. Closest was Yogg i guess. Your post also got me thinking about some nasty 2 card combos from the past... This was a disgusting one i remember from MTG. 2 useless cards alone but when combined are utterly broken:
My first play with this deck showed me how OP it could be, that's why I shared it.1st turn I had a blur, Skull of Gul'dan, into inner demon, Marrow slicer, twin slice, then dropped Glide, into chaos strike, that drew me the other skull of gul'dan, which got me 2nd twin slice, and 2nd Inner Demon. and Swung for 30.
Undeath and Necromancy, The Story of the Scourge and Forsaken: Traversing Azeroth
*raises hand*
To be fair, given the amount of content, it was quite short ^^
Great shadow bestiary GoliathTheDwarf
Aurelion Sol - The Star Forger: Card breakdown
I have mixed feelings about this statement.
In one hand, i agree this is the core concept of what pure control decks are trying to do. If you watch the video linked bellow my signature, you will see i play a priest deck that has no treats or win conditions, only disruption and value generation cards. The entire plan of my deck is to disrupt the opponent's strategy until they run out of resources.
In the other hand, pure control decks usually takes over 15 turns or even deck out to finish games so companies decided matches in the modern era should not take longer then an average of "X" time. To acomplish that, they implemented finisher cards, OTK, combo strategies all with powerfull effects that are very hard to disrupt. For example, how do you even disrupt a Warmother's Call deck? Unless you are playing Ionia with Deny, you just can't interact with it.
If you don't believe me, i challenge you to come up with a theoretical deck that doesn't use a single finisher and relies only on disruptions cards in today's meta. I don't think its going to work. Every deck should be build around cards that optimize its own win condition first and foremost. Disruption cards are added later to replace prior choices when needed, in order to increase the winrate agaisnt whats being played in the current meta. Those disruption cards may not even be needed agaisnt a particular meta, and certainly are not exclusively played in control decks only. Even agro decks can play the disruption game and tech in control cards agaisnt very specific matchups. Secret Eater and Counter Spell are very good examples of disruption cards that were played in both aggro and OTK decks.
Dont get me wrong, i don't think your definition is bad or even wrong, just think isn't right either.
Dragon Focused Decks
I’ve found that with the deck I use, you can have scenarios where, as the dragons, you get knocked down bellow half health; but still pull out a pretty clear win
Free To Play Rewards - Week 3
Got a full playset of Trundle and Diana now and have been playing around with them in various lists.
Noticing that Trundle Tyndamere lists are starting to pick up in popularity thanks to their synergy with warmothers call
Dianna seems to like frostbite quite a bit if you want to try here in something other than day and night, or Nocturne aggro.
Next champions I will be taking on are Leonna and Taric so look forward to that.
Take care
The void or Shurima
I think it'll be Shurima in Feb. 2021 and The Void in Aug. 2021. That really only leaves Ixtal as the remaining region. The problem though is that Ixtal has far fewer champion representation than other regions.
I'd hate for Ixtal to be left out of this game, because there's a lot of potential the LoR team can make with the jungle environment that it's known for. Maybe they'll shuffle around some champions in the lore to settle there or maybe it can become a joint region with Shurima like P&Z is.
The void or Shurima
Level Up: Press R and Obliterate the target enemy champion :D
The void or Shurima
Nocturne is not from the void I don't know were you got that from, in the lore he's a demon born from shadow magic during the rune wars.
Branching Out - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Last version of the card. Final thoughts on the card before I submit?
The void or Shurima
Void will not be a region almost certainly, Nocturne is from the void and is already in SI, like teemo and Lulu from Brandle City.
I Suspect Ixtal will not be a region also, it has very few champions. Shurima should be next one and i expect that will be it atleast for now. They can always split regions in the future.
I think Riot wants to release expansions without new regions soon to stabilize the game, and considering the current model of expansions beeing released in 3 sets. After Shurima 9 regions 90 cards 9 champions in set1 makes alot of sense.
I Don't think LOR needs too many more regions, i would prefer variety in terms of card types and strategies, even hearthstone has Hero cards and Weapons and MTG has so much stuff Artifacts/Enchantments/Equipment/Planeswalkers etc.
Dragon Focused Decks
Okay those are both kinda the same List and I played couple of matches against it: i lost 1 out 5 matches or sth like that. The moment it gets rolling i already have their nexus burning or at least sejuani ready to level up and end these dragon player's career. Its maybe not just a gimmic but not strong enough to keep me back :)
Time to Shine! 4 Fabulous Taric Decks to Take to Runeterra's Ladder
Taric was the last CotM Champion I bothered to get, and I haven't really given him a spin yet. Thanks for showing me somewhere to start!
Blizzard is Trying Different Health Scaling and Card Tier Damage for Battlegrounds in Playtesting
You scared me for a second there. I thought it was a change for HS health mechanic. I keep forgetting theres a new game inside HS
The void or Shurima
How dare you call Shurima un-cool! OK maybe the region itself isn't as lore-rich as Targon but come on: Amumu? Rammus? Reketon? Nasus? Cassiopeia? Sivir? There are some really cool champs from there.
You're also totally discounting Ixtal as the possible next region: Nidalee, Rengar, Zyra, Malphite.
Really, I think I'll be happy with whatever region they pick so long as they keep doing as good a job as they are.
Fish restaurant (Murlocadin might be back)
I also want to start a restaurant in the beautiful location at new york and need some suggestions about that.
The void or Shurima
Play: Deal 10 dmg to enemy Nexus. Deal 1 more damage for each card in your opponents hand :D
Undeath and Necromancy, The Story of the Scourge and Forsaken: Traversing Azeroth
Who read the whole thing? Raise the hand! *raises hand*
Aurelion Sol - The Star Forger: Card breakdown
It's certainly fair to say that there's overlap between combo and control, but I don't think "keeping the board under control" is the right view for control. Both strategies want to go late into the game, and typically both include lots of tools to control the board to ensure they can reach the late game against faster, aggressive decks. The goal of a combo deck is clear - stall the game while drawing to some combo that will win you the game. But control should be able to beat decks by disrupting their strategies. Board control is part of that, but so is combo disruption. This is why the unconditional Obliterate effects and/or super cheap silence effects that you get in ASol Control decks are so powerful.
I think @skullleigh has really hit on the most compelling point with the remark about Aurelion Sol + Living Legends. This pair is pretty easy to get thanks to Starshaping and Aurelion Sol invoking exclusively from the 7+ cost pool. The result is that it's very common for an L2 Aurelion Sol to generate 30 or more mana's worth of value in a single turn.
That's certainly overkill when you're not in a control mirror, so in that sense I can see why the comparison to other late-game decks makes sense. But it's well beyond what those other decks can do in the late game. This is why I think it's important not to simply ask "Is Aurelion Sol a fair win condition" in the grand scheme of the meta, but also "Is Aurelion Sol so powerful that it makes other control win conditions irrelevant?" My gut instinct is that the answer here is yes, and I have looked over the data available to reach that conclusion, but as I indicated above, the best source of data (mobalytics stats) is hard to parse. It's certainly possible my read is incorrect.
The void or Shurima
I wouldn't mind either tbh. I love both regions very much. I would love Cho'gath and I can easily see him being in the game with a concept where he gets bigger with each kill he gets, probably a new big boi control/midrange archetype. I would equally love Rammus to be in the game just as much because I would also love a defense favored keyword instead of offense, maybe a keyword that allows him to block Elusive and Fearsome without being Elusive or 3+ attack.
Though if I had to pick one, I would have to pick Shurima. Mainly because I just want a Rammus OK emote to be in the game lmao.
The void or Shurima
What if they decide to merge both regions a la Piltover & Zaun. I know it sound crazy but think about it : Malzahar, Kassadin, Kai'sa were Shuriman humans who gained void power, we also have Rek'sai and Kog'maw who currently reside in the Shuriman continent.
The void or Shurima
+1 Void, and while at it, they could also print my favorite buddie Veigar :D
Blizzard is Trying Different Health Scaling and Card Tier Damage for Battlegrounds in Playtesting
I really like the idea of all minions only doing 1 damage, although something else (like lowering total hero health) would probably have to done to compensate. Regardless of what they will do, at least something has to be done so you aren't able to just randomly take absurd amounts damage because you happened to go against a guy who just powerspiked, or because a bunch of your opponent's high tier minions happened to survive with a sliver of health.
The void or Shurima
Which one you guys think we'll get next?
I'd personally prefer the void with Cho'gath being one of the first champions available. But maybe with Targon being such a great expansion maybe they'll give us something less cool for the next region like Shurima before adding the Void.
Aurelion Sol - The Star Forger: Card breakdown
I find it really strange that so many people complain about Aurelion Sol Ramp, who is only good against slow control decks and very prone to bricking due to all the high cost cards, when we have things like Endure Kalista a deck that can do pretty much anything from early game aggro to mid range beatdown and have a strong finisher, not to mention one of the best draw engine in the entire game.
Aurelion Sol - The Star Forger: Card breakdown
Nice observation! Single card combo i indeed can't think in anything. Closest was Yogg i guess.
Your post also got me thinking about some nasty 2 card combos from the past...
This was a disgusting one i remember from MTG. 2 useless cards alone but when combined are utterly broken:
This Week's Hearthstone Tavern Brawl is "Blood Magic - Standard" - Pay Health to Cast Spells
My first play with this deck showed me how OP it could be, that's why I shared it.1st turn I had a blur, Skull of Gul'dan, into inner demon, Marrow slicer, twin slice, then dropped Glide, into chaos strike, that drew me the other skull of gul'dan, which got me 2nd twin slice, and 2nd Inner Demon. and Swung for 30.