Zilliax isn't an autoinclude because he's too good - he's an autoinclude because he's splashable. Design-wise you could argue that the two are the same thing, but from a pure balance perspective they're not.
Indeed, but that would have to be 2 turns later, where I would be dead already. And that would be 2 more cards to draw, where he could draw Decimate and Blade's Edge and in that case he didn't even need to attack or a board at all.
That's why I gave a practical example, and not an assuming one. Because when we enter the realm of assumptions, everything is possible ;)
When it comes to analysis, 'practical examples' are better known as 'anecdotal evidence' and are generally worthless. Anyone can come up with a scenario in which a card is gamewinning.
Moving on.
Roughly the same stats as other 8-drops
Immediately deals direct damage to enemy nexus (up to 10 damage!)
Returns to hand and can be resummoned for infinite value, infinite direct damage (expensive, but infinite nonetheless)
Fearsome, so impossible to chump block
Very few ways in the entire game to keep him from coming back
Alternative view:
- There are barely any 8-drops in the game, so stat-comparison doesn't really have much of a sample size. Small enough, in fact, that it's not unreasonable to ask 'okay, well, are the other 8-drops too weak rather than this one too strong?'. I would however note that he shares a mana slot with Ren Shadowblade, who literally sits on board saying 'your opponent now cannot develop a board, ever, until I'm removed'.
- Direct damage which is scaled to be incredibly inefficient as a finisher and strong if levelling a playing field; being burn in and of itself doesn't indicate an abundance of power.
- Historically, people tend to overvalue 'infinite' effects from my experience. Saw it a lot in HS - people tend to ignore the actual value of the card in favour of what can happen in incredibly obscure circumstances. While still relevant for balance purposes (of course), you're not going to see the card bounced more than a couple of times in the vast majority of games.
- Fearsome - sure. On the other hand, you're running at least 8 mana at this point - you can afford to block with something other than chumps. However, further point on this below.
Having thought further on the Fearsome point - generally speaking I don't value Fearsome all that highly, particularly on expensive cards (if you're getting that late into the game and still relying on chumps, you're having issues, is my usual feeling). However in this case, Fearsome has the secondary issue which I don't see anyone raising - top-heavy stats plus Fearsome plus bounce effect is a Catch-22 situation because you're forced into blocking with higher attack followers, which in turn makes the follower more likely to bounce.
Having considered that point now, I do agree that the Fearsome keyword is kind of problematic. Though I stand by my disagreement on the burn rounding up/down, because again, if you're losing to this card purely from the burn alone, you were probably dead anyway.
From my experience I'm fairly confident that a significant number of the 'play X champions from Y/Z regions' quests are bugged and actually increment from playing against those champions. Either the quests are broken or someone misssed a word or two when writing the descriptions.
Perhaps this should be a lesson. I think I can give a few tips on getting the max value of Special Daily Quests like this one (and next year if it was similar).
1. Keep two old daily quests on standby the day the festival begins. Don't immediately login at 1 AM PST, as you will get the 3rd quest still the same old. Instead, wait until at least 11 AM PST when the festival truly begins. And Yes, old quest can be rolled into special. You can get a max of 16 special quests (rather than 14 quests for the original 2 weeks)
2. If possible, when you roll special quest, and still got 60 gold, wait until the next day to roll again. but if you had 2 or more quest (the other were 100 gold), just finish the 100, because you can't get 2 of the same quest and when you roll, it reduces your chance to get another 100 gold.
3. If you got 80 gold quest on login, you should keep it, rather than have to roll for a slim chance of getting 100, or big chance of getting the bad 60 gold.
With this in mind, I guess I can brag about getting 1500 gold and dust within this festival. getting only 1 time 60 gold, and 3 times 80 quest.
EDIT. perhaps I should add, that there are
6 x 60 gold quest, 1 x 80 gold quest, & 3 x 100 gold quest. I forgot where I got this info. (I don't mind corrections.)
and Yes, I did get 3 times 80 gold quests. pure luck I guess.
Now this I agree with, as it's consistent with the Overwhelm treatment. The wording states that the damage is negated, and if the damage is negated then it isn't dealt. If damage isn't dealt, no draining is done. It's also consistent with Lifesteal, because a Lifesteal follower hitting a Barrier will not heal the Nexus.
Logically, the opposite of the bold part would be true: In order to negate something, that thing has to exist in the first place. "Negate" doesn't mean "erase from existence." It means "cause to be ineffective or invalid." Barrier takes damage that does exist and renders it ineffective -- it makes it so that damage is not subtracted from the unit's health.
If this is inconsistent with Lifesteal, however, that does feel like a bug one way or the other.
I really don't know about that. I don't think the answer to the question lies with drilling down into exact wording definitions (as it might in a physical card game). I think simplifying the question works far better - 'is damage dealt Y/N' - if barrier then N, so no healing.
I would also note that unless I'm wholly incorrect, I'm fairly sure Tough does in fact reduce healing from Drain (pretty sure that came up in an Expedition the other night).
TBH, Iksar's post didn't stated which server his statistic was based on. I could be only from a single server, and there's alot of hearthstone servers going. So, perhaps we shouldn't really judge his statistic to be the only truth out there.
There is also a decent pool of standard dragons you are not running might want to take another look (while dropping weapon synergy cards, and Zul'jin (which is weak when you are not running secrets or a lot of spells).)
I don't know why would you like wild over standard if you are not running the wild cards you can't use in standard..
I don't think it is worth to play wild instead of standard for 1 MEH card (neferian) and Stitched Trackers either go with many good wild dragons or cut them for standard cards.
Dread Corsair is out of place.. you have only 1 weapon.
Quote From HorusHey there, just so you know, you can actually embed your decklist into your post by using its code : Invalid Deck ID , replacing the DeckID with the BBCode. Works just like the link, but even better :)
If you look at all the 8-mana followers in the game, it's very obvious that Ledros is just plain super-crazy. As in, I can't believe they printed this crazy garbage crazy.
While I have to disclaim that I've never played Ledros or had him played against me, from a theoretical standpoint, I'm definitely with you. Strong burn effect + strong statline with Fearsome + auto-recycle on death seems very overbearing.
Honestly, he'd probably be fine if they ditched his Last Breath effect entirely. Or at least have him halve his own stats every time he dies and returns to hand.
Another crazy idea: Upon summoning, after burning the enemy nexus, let him deal the same amount of damage to himself.
Found Doomsayer isn't that useful as he just hero powers it down anyway. I just put in a couple Primordial Glyph for the extra freeze or another iceblock if your lucky and it worked out well.
You´re right, good point. I´ve changed that, thank you :)
Anivia has no connection with any Frostburn Frostbite effect, so I suppose your guess is as good as mine... Maybe if Winter's Breath or Crystal Arrow were Fast spells, he could've queued up one of those, but they're not, so I have no idea (On second thought, even then, Winter's Breath would've prevented you from killing Anivia).
I don't think it is worth to play wild instead of standard for 1 MEH card ([Hearthstone Card (neferian) Not Found]) and Stitched Trackers either go with many good wild dragons or cut them for standard cards.
Dread Corsair is out of place.. you have only 1 weapon.
Found Doomsayer isn't that useful as he just hero powers it down anyway. I just put in a couple Primordial Glyph for the extra freeze or another iceblock if your lucky and it worked out well.
As a Hearthstone player, this card makes me think if Anub'arak was a good card, what would it's effect be? Granted the effect can be very effective in the right situation, in HS the 9 mana minion slow is often one where you either 1) have a powerful effect with an immediate impact or 2) use it as some sort of combo piece. Otherwise, it's usually too slow.
In essence, Ledros is kind of like this. The low health means it can die easily, but it has been given a very powerful effect! I have played him some for this effect alone, but have yet to play him with my opponent at 1 HP. Didn't know that was the result. However, now that I know that I'm not really sure how I feel about it. Going from 1 to zero isn't really cutting in half, it's dealing 1 damage. Perhaps the solution is just to specify "cut the enemy Nexus health in half, but not less than 1." So ultimately you get the same effect, rounding down UNTIL the opponent is at 1 HP.
But also, unless this becomes a very common strategy with people abusing the power of Ledros to win games at an impressively high win rate, or unless the entire meta of the game is forming around stopping Ledros, I'd say leave it. The Runterra team seems set on frequent balance patches and will likely make a change when, or if it's ever needed.
If Anub'arak would cut the enemy hp in half, and had taunt(every unit that can block in runetterra has essentially taunt) be sure he would see play in Rogue.
Will You Be Ours? Happy Valentine's Day From Out of Cards
nice
Will You Be Ours? Happy Valentine's Day From Out of Cards
True story.
Last birthday I was bought a pink unicorn as part of my presents by my girlfriend.
I call it Horny.
Love to all!!!!!!
Top Rung of the Ladder - Decklists for the Highest Winrate Hearthstone Decks in the Top 1%
I don't know where exactly, but I somewhere read that there introducing a new Tribe in the next Hs year
Discussing Vanilla Body Stats
Zilliax isn't an autoinclude because he's too good - he's an autoinclude because he's splashable. Design-wise you could argue that the two are the same thing, but from a pure balance perspective they're not.
Commander Ledros ought to round down
When it comes to analysis, 'practical examples' are better known as 'anecdotal evidence' and are generally worthless. Anyone can come up with a scenario in which a card is gamewinning.
Moving on.
Alternative view:
- There are barely any 8-drops in the game, so stat-comparison doesn't really have much of a sample size. Small enough, in fact, that it's not unreasonable to ask 'okay, well, are the other 8-drops too weak rather than this one too strong?'. I would however note that he shares a mana slot with Ren Shadowblade, who literally sits on board saying 'your opponent now cannot develop a board, ever, until I'm removed'.
- Direct damage which is scaled to be incredibly inefficient as a finisher and strong if levelling a playing field; being burn in and of itself doesn't indicate an abundance of power.
- Historically, people tend to overvalue 'infinite' effects from my experience. Saw it a lot in HS - people tend to ignore the actual value of the card in favour of what can happen in incredibly obscure circumstances. While still relevant for balance purposes (of course), you're not going to see the card bounced more than a couple of times in the vast majority of games.
- Fearsome - sure. On the other hand, you're running at least 8 mana at this point - you can afford to block with something other than chumps. However, further point on this below.
Having thought further on the Fearsome point - generally speaking I don't value Fearsome all that highly, particularly on expensive cards (if you're getting that late into the game and still relying on chumps, you're having issues, is my usual feeling). However in this case, Fearsome has the secondary issue which I don't see anyone raising - top-heavy stats plus Fearsome plus bounce effect is a Catch-22 situation because you're forced into blocking with higher attack followers, which in turn makes the follower more likely to bounce.
Having considered that point now, I do agree that the Fearsome keyword is kind of problematic. Though I stand by my disagreement on the burn rounding up/down, because again, if you're losing to this card purely from the burn alone, you were probably dead anyway.
Achievements not counting towards Quest reward.
From my experience I'm fairly confident that a significant number of the 'play X champions from Y/Z regions' quests are bugged and actually increment from playing against those champions. Either the quests are broken or someone misssed a word or two when writing the descriptions.
Lunar Festival Quest Stats
Perhaps this should be a lesson. I think I can give a few tips on getting the max value of Special Daily Quests like this one (and next year if it was similar).
1. Keep two old daily quests on standby the day the festival begins. Don't immediately login at 1 AM PST, as you will get the 3rd quest still the same old. Instead, wait until at least 11 AM PST when the festival truly begins. And Yes, old quest can be rolled into special. You can get a max of 16 special quests (rather than 14 quests for the original 2 weeks)
2. If possible, when you roll special quest, and still got 60 gold, wait until the next day to roll again. but if you had 2 or more quest (the other were 100 gold), just finish the 100, because you can't get 2 of the same quest and when you roll, it reduces your chance to get another 100 gold.
3. If you got 80 gold quest on login, you should keep it, rather than have to roll for a slim chance of getting 100, or big chance of getting the bad 60 gold.
With this in mind, I guess I can brag about getting 1500 gold and dust within this festival. getting only 1 time 60 gold, and 3 times 80 quest.
EDIT. perhaps I should add, that there are
6 x 60 gold quest, 1 x 80 gold quest, & 3 x 100 gold quest. I forgot where I got this info. (I don't mind corrections.)
and Yes, I did get 3 times 80 gold quests. pure luck I guess.
The use of barrier and some spells
I really don't know about that. I don't think the answer to the question lies with drilling down into exact wording definitions (as it might in a physical card game). I think simplifying the question works far better - 'is damage dealt Y/N' - if barrier then N, so no healing.
I would also note that unless I'm wholly incorrect, I'm fairly sure Tough does in fact reduce healing from Drain (pretty sure that came up in an Expedition the other night).
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: SirLynx#1266
Region : NA
Trade Only : Yes. You show I show
Finished.
Top Rung of the Ladder - Decklists for the Highest Winrate Hearthstone Decks in the Top 1%
I wish you were right, but Zetalot's moved to Runeterra, so I don't think he's smurfing on HS atm. I could be wrong though.
(source : https://twitter.com/Zetalot2/status/1219325993854390272
Top Rung of the Ladder - Decklists for the Highest Winrate Hearthstone Decks in the Top 1%
TBH, Iksar's post didn't stated which server his statistic was based on. I could be only from a single server, and there's alot of hearthstone servers going. So, perhaps we shouldn't really judge his statistic to be the only truth out there.
Blizzard May be Reverting Card Nerfs on the Next Set Rotation
Then Lord Godfrey becomes a problem. Sorry, Dreadsteed was never going to be a meta card, no point twisting and turning for its sake.
My attempt at a fun Dragon Hunter.. any suggestions on this?
I like wild for the variety I guess.. I hate seeing the same stuff again and again.
I really like Twilight Guardian
The rest seem too slow or low stated to me.. will still try blackwing corruptor.
My attempt at a fun Dragon Hunter.. any suggestions on this?
Definitely not Nefarian
You should run/consider:Primordial Drake,Drakonid Crusher, Cobalt Scalebane, Twilight Guardian.
Situational: Book Wyrm, Bone Drake.
Also you really want to consider running Blackwing Corruptor.
There is also a decent pool of standard dragons you are not running might want to take another look (while dropping weapon synergy cards, and Zul'jin (which is weak when you are not running secrets or a lot of spells).)
I don't know why would you like wild over standard if you are not running the wild cards you can't use in standard..
My attempt at a fun Dragon Hunter.. any suggestions on this?
But I like wild though.. what are "good wild dragons"?
Im a bit reluctant to cut Nefarian cause at 7 mana it's great but I can always replace if I get better.
Blizzard May be Reverting Card Nerfs on the Next Set Rotation
Blame Defile for that. If needed, they could maybe change it's stats to 5 mana 2/2 to make it stronger overall and cure the Defile problem.
Galakrond's Awakening : Heroic Guide
Thank you, it worked :)
How did Anivia win that game?
Frostbited* you mean, dunno you need to screenshot when something goes wrong.. he probably used Harsh Winds and you didn't notice.
Commander Ledros ought to round down
While I have to disclaim that I've never played Ledros or had him played against me, from a theoretical standpoint, I'm definitely with you. Strong burn effect + strong statline with Fearsome + auto-recycle on death seems very overbearing.
Honestly, he'd probably be fine if they ditched his Last Breath effect entirely. Or at least have him halve his own stats every time he dies and returns to hand.
Another crazy idea: Upon summoning, after burning the enemy nexus, let him deal the same amount of damage to himself.
Heroic Galakrond E.V.I.L and Explorers
Thank you, it´s the easiest "cheat" there is, I´m surprised they didn´t ban it :)
Heroic Galakrond E.V.I.L and Explorers
You´re right, good point. I´ve changed that, thank you :)
How did Anivia win that game?
Anivia has no connection with any Frostburn Frostbite effect, so I suppose your guess is as good as mine... Maybe if Winter's Breath or Crystal Arrow were Fast spells, he could've queued up one of those, but they're not, so I have no idea (On second thought, even then, Winter's Breath would've prevented you from killing Anivia).
My attempt at a fun Dragon Hunter.. any suggestions on this?
I don't think it is worth to play wild instead of standard for 1 MEH card ([Hearthstone Card (neferian) Not Found]) and Stitched Trackers either go with many good wild dragons or cut them for standard cards.
Dread Corsair is out of place.. you have only 1 weapon.
If you are going to standard, cut Flare.
Heroic Galakrond E.V.I.L and Explorers
Found Doomsayer isn't that useful as he just hero powers it down anyway. I just put in a couple Primordial Glyph for the extra freeze or another iceblock if your lucky and it worked out well.
Commander Ledros ought to round down
If Anub'arak would cut the enemy hp in half, and had taunt(every unit that can block in runetterra has essentially taunt) be sure he would see play in Rogue.