Your biggest mistake is to think Blizzard puts the same value on an effect throughout the game lifespan. Not only do they "fine-tune" cards to suit their flavor, but they increase their power level on purpose in some occasions to make them stand out. Not easy to then compare the cards solely on their stats and effects and draw a definitive conclusion from that.
actually, I don't think there is a reference function at all for any stats balance and keywords: designers just go by custom, their guts, and ultimately statistics...
Nothing is balanced or broken on paper in their minds. So we can hardly make any point here.
If by what you're saying is true, there lies Hearthstone problems with overpowered cards, (hence all the nerfs). For example like Corrupt Elementalist nerf, that it should show you how his stats and battlecry so strong in 5 drops, and I agree that it should be balanced at 6 drops.
If there is some ground rules about making minions, I believe it should be pretty balance, and there would be no need for all that nerfs.
I could be wrong too. But if it were up to me, I do think it's important to have rules about how minion stats should be.
Mathematically the total vanilla stats could be written as 2n+1+(1/n!), rounded down.
Could you elaborate about your formula?
0 drops would be 0/0 + 1 + (1/0 this is an infinite).
and 5 drops would be 5/5 + 1 (1/5 rounded down is 0) = 5/5 + 1 random stats?
That's a factorial, which is never zero. 0! = 1 by convention. Not sure how correct the formula is since this game is anything but consistent (and they always push some power creep to force certain decks because that's how they designed it in the first place), but it might be close enough.
The 1/n! term was really just trying to be as concise as possible to give 0 and 1 mana cards +1 stat. Of course there is no fixed rule, especially for non-vanilla cards.
Fun fact: if you look up the Gamma function, which is a generalisation of the factorial to non-integers, you find 0!=1 isn't just convention but mathematically justified.
Vanilla stats function is actually non-linear, as it works differently for (1), (2) and probably (3) too. It normalizes only from (4) and above.
We should also consider that multple keywords REAL value (their impact) does not stack as a sum, but exponentially - and that's why Zilliax APPEARS to be balanced, but actually it is not (and that explains its popularity in both Standard and Wild).
EDIT: actually, I don't think there is a reference function at all for any stats balance and keywords: designers just go by custom, their guts, and ultimately statistics...
Nothing is balanced or broken on paper in their minds. So we can hardly make any point here.
Mathematically the total vanilla stats could be written as 2n+1+(1/n!), rounded down.
Could you elaborate about your formula?
0 drops would be 0/0 + 1 + (1/0 this is an infinite).
and 5 drops would be 5/5 + 1 (1/5 rounded down is 0) = 5/5 + 1 random stats?
That's a factorial, which is never zero. 0! = 1 by convention. Not sure how correct the formula is since this game is anything but consistent (and they always push some power creep to force certain decks because that's how they designed it in the first place), but it might be close enough.
Being a F2P player, it is sometime takes a desperate measure to get a free packs, by any means necessary (but not with shady activity).
I had, login from Samsung Mobile, to Apple IPhone, and Tablet, just to get those nifty free packs.
And I've just realized that there is one more way to get more free packs, recruit a player (up to four free packs). But the cons is, not just any recruit can do. It has to be lower than 20 in total level (not Ranks Level).
To anyone who kind enough to be my recruit, pass those lv.20, and let me have those precious packs, I would be so grateful.
In addition, you get 1 free pack (if you haven't got to lv.20). So it's a win-win.
So, after much thought, and comparing, and probably wasting lots of time. I've come to a conclusion that
Zilliax is a 3/2 body with a 7-8 random stats, it could be a 5 drops 6/6 or 6/7 body in vanilla state, and that's okay, since there are rarity aspect in play.
Taunt being 1 stat, based on many 1 drops
Divine Shield being 2 stats, again based on 1 drops
Rush being 1 to 2 stats,
Lifesteal being 2 stats,
and Magnetize being 1 stat, since its a expansion mechanic.
(one thing in mind, all of this comparison was based on neutral cards)
(...) Lots of tremendously terrible AI decisions. :D
That last part got me laughing real good : so relatable ^^ Also, thanks for posting your deck lists. Having more options may certainly help other users Cheers
Well maybe thats it. But its a shame i couldnt see it in the log.
And my statements are true.
If there is something wrong then because i missed it and it didnt show in the log.
i had a similar thing happen to me my OP shuffled ezreal with the parade, after sometime he played a ezeral from hand while controling one the played ezeral didnt hit the field just mystic shot my guy [ like it was supose to do] then the log didnt show a mystic shot but a ezreal on it, beta bugs i guess.
So I was on a quest to 100% the dalaran heist on heroic and during my, Chu run against Kalecgos he used a 19 dmg pyroblast on a divine shielded annoy-o-tron. My only question is why? I had lethal but why use it on a divine shield out of all my minions? Oh yeah also the twists and anomalies cost 2 mana now
Having considered that point now, I do agree that the Fearsome keyword is kind of problematic. Though I stand by my disagreement on the burn rounding up/down, because again, if you're losing to this card purely from the burn alone, you were probably dead anyway.
I could see either dropping the Fearsome tag or (even better) lowering his attack from 8 to ~4 so that his OTK potential circa Frank's example is reduced from 15 HP to 9 HP--you're getting tons of value from his Played and Last Whisper effects; you shouldn't need vanilla stats as well.
I don't think I'd agree with lowering his attack value because making him kinda garbage on the board leaves him with all his cost going to pay for the effect. Having him be top heavy but blockable by trash makes him more interesting by design - the opponent needs to make tough decisions as to how to block him.
It's literally 100 percent of the comparable population. Even if you add 9- and 10-drops into the mix, Ledros is still bonkers.
I didn't say it wasn't the entire population, but that doesn't mean it's a reasonable sample size. It just means the cards don't exist to compare it to yet. I don't agree on your point regarding 9 and 10 drops though - if you expand the pool out that way you're looking at Brightsteel Formation and She Who Wanders (much stronger statline), along with Minah Swiftfoot (who is even more gamewinning than this card, albeit requiring more setup) and Corina Veraza (who kinda sucks). Plaza Guardian and Scuttlegeist don't really count given their cost reduction which will mean they're effectively not 10-drops.
The one thing no one's mentioned: showing how many shards & wildcards you own in all the HUDs, not just the Store. Or at least in the deckbuilding / card viewing screens. I saw a mockup of this somewhere--I think reddit?--and it looked really slick, but I searched for it just now and couldn't find it.
What? Yogg thumbnail but the article does not mention him?
I don't care about any of that. But please, unnerf Yogg-Saron, Hope's End, he is a freakin Old God and yet he is just a joke compared to the Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron, which is 10 spell guarantee without any need of spell stacking. And you can have two in the deck. Just WTF, do it. Praise Yogg!
Yogg does not need to be unnerfed.
If you die, could you continue casting spells? No. Why should Yogg be any different?
Some nice ideas in your post. I feel the UI is, in most respects, perfectly serviceable, so I don't see these as too big of a priority. The biggest one to me would probably be the ability to select an image for each deck. I also wish we could right-click cards in the rewards-opening screen.
Discussing Vanilla Body Stats
Your biggest mistake is to think Blizzard puts the same value on an effect throughout the game lifespan. Not only do they "fine-tune" cards to suit their flavor, but they increase their power level on purpose in some occasions to make them stand out. Not easy to then compare the cards solely on their stats and effects and draw a definitive conclusion from that.
Happy Singles Awareness Day, Hearthstone! Highlander Decks to Celebrate Love is in the Air
Yeah I was thinking about the same thing. It's a missed opportunity not to call them singleton.
Happy Singles Awareness Day, Hearthstone! Highlander Decks to Celebrate Love is in the Air
Soloing ladder with my one-of-a-kind singleton deck to become the one and only, no1 😍
Floating Watcher is Moving to Tavern Tier 4 in a Server Patch this Thursday
A few days later and I'm still seeing massive Wrath weavers and Floating Watchers.
The nerfs didn't work. Beasts are screwed, Murlocs need poison or Brann, Mechs pray their Cobalt refreshes hold up.
Discussing Vanilla Body Stats
If by what you're saying is true, there lies Hearthstone problems with overpowered cards, (hence all the nerfs). For example like Corrupt Elementalist nerf, that it should show you how his stats and battlecry so strong in 5 drops, and I agree that it should be balanced at 6 drops.
If there is some ground rules about making minions, I believe it should be pretty balance, and there would be no need for all that nerfs.
I could be wrong too. But if it were up to me, I do think it's important to have rules about how minion stats should be.
Discussing Vanilla Body Stats
The 1/n! term was really just trying to be as concise as possible to give 0 and 1 mana cards +1 stat. Of course there is no fixed rule, especially for non-vanilla cards.
Fun fact: if you look up the Gamma function, which is a generalisation of the factorial to non-integers, you find 0!=1 isn't just convention but mathematically justified.
Discussing Vanilla Body Stats
Vanilla stats function is actually non-linear, as it works differently for (1), (2) and probably (3) too. It normalizes only from (4) and above.
We should also consider that multple keywords REAL value (their impact) does not stack as a sum, but exponentially - and that's why Zilliax APPEARS to be balanced, but actually it is not (and that explains its popularity in both Standard and Wild).
EDIT: actually, I don't think there is a reference function at all for any stats balance and keywords: designers just go by custom, their guts, and ultimately statistics...
Nothing is balanced or broken on paper in their minds. So we can hardly make any point here.
Reap3r's Youtube channel | Herthstone Arena stream and LoR contend!
9th February update: Always had that dream, and finally i made it!!
I like it! Secret plan for a turn 1 and versatile tool and call of the wild as a late game power play/finisher + zul'jin synergy. Seems great to me.
Discussing Vanilla Body Stats
That's a factorial, which is never zero. 0! = 1 by convention. Not sure how correct the formula is since this game is anything but consistent (and they always push some power creep to force certain decks because that's how they designed it in the first place), but it might be close enough.
Need Help on Completing Recruit A Friend
Hi guys (and girls)
Being a F2P player, it is sometime takes a desperate measure to get a free packs, by any means necessary (but not with shady activity).
I had, login from Samsung Mobile, to Apple IPhone, and Tablet, just to get those nifty free packs.
And I've just realized that there is one more way to get more free packs, recruit a player (up to four free packs). But the cons is, not just any recruit can do. It has to be lower than 20 in total level (not Ranks Level).
To anyone who kind enough to be my recruit, pass those lv.20, and let me have those precious packs, I would be so grateful.
In addition, you get 1 free pack (if you haven't got to lv.20). So it's a win-win.
So, here's my link.
https://battle.net/recruit/6ZTBJSTG28?blzcmp=raf-hs&s=HS&m=pc
Thanks in advance.
Discussing Vanilla Body Stats
So, after much thought, and comparing, and probably wasting lots of time. I've come to a conclusion that
Zilliax is a 3/2 body with a 7-8 random stats, it could be a 5 drops 6/6 or 6/7 body in vanilla state, and that's okay, since there are rarity aspect in play.
Taunt being 1 stat, based on many 1 drops
Divine Shield being 2 stats, again based on 1 drops
Rush being 1 to 2 stats,
Lifesteal being 2 stats,
and Magnetize being 1 stat, since its a expansion mechanic.
(one thing in mind, all of this comparison was based on neutral cards)
go ahead and change my mind.
Discussing Vanilla Body Stats
Could you elaborate about your formula?
0 drops would be 0/0 + 1 + (1/0 this is an infinite).
and 5 drops would be 5/5 + 1 (1/5 rounded down is 0) = 5/5 + 1 random stats?
Happy Singles Awareness Day, Hearthstone! Highlander Decks to Celebrate Love is in the Air
Taking Singleton to the next level ^^
Galakrond's Awakening : Heroic Guide
You are welcome!
Galakrond's Awakening : Heroic Guide
That last part got me laughing real good : so relatable ^^
Also, thanks for posting your deck lists. Having more options may certainly help other users
Cheers
How did Anivia win that game?
i had a similar thing happen to me my OP shuffled ezreal with the parade, after sometime he played a ezeral from hand while controling one the played ezeral didnt hit the field just mystic shot my guy [ like it was supose to do] then the log didnt show a mystic shot but a ezreal on it, beta bugs i guess.
The A.I is stupid
So I was on a quest to 100% the dalaran heist on heroic and during my, Chu run against Kalecgos he used a 19 dmg pyroblast on a divine shielded annoy-o-tron. My only question is why? I had lethal but why use it on a divine shield out of all my minions? Oh yeah also the twists and anomalies cost 2 mana now
Will You Be Ours? Happy Valentine's Day From Out of Cards
Not sure this was necessary - I am very aware of my singleness :P
Commander Ledros ought to round down
I don't think I'd agree with lowering his attack value because making him kinda garbage on the board leaves him with all his cost going to pay for the effect. Having him be top heavy but blockable by trash makes him more interesting by design - the opponent needs to make tough decisions as to how to block him.
I didn't say it wasn't the entire population, but that doesn't mean it's a reasonable sample size. It just means the cards don't exist to compare it to yet. I don't agree on your point regarding 9 and 10 drops though - if you expand the pool out that way you're looking at Brightsteel Formation and She Who Wanders (much stronger statline), along with Minah Swiftfoot (who is even more gamewinning than this card, albeit requiring more setup) and Corina Veraza (who kinda sucks). Plaza Guardian and Scuttlegeist don't really count given their cost reduction which will mean they're effectively not 10-drops.
How did Anivia win that game?
Well maybe thats it. But its a shame i couldnt see it in the log.
And my statements are true.
If there is something wrong then because i missed it and it didnt show in the log.
User Interface Wishlist
I agree with everything everyone has said.
The one thing no one's mentioned: showing how many shards & wildcards you own in all the HUDs, not just the Store. Or at least in the deckbuilding / card viewing screens. I saw a mockup of this somewhere--I think reddit?--and it looked really slick, but I searched for it just now and couldn't find it.
Blizzard May be Reverting Card Nerfs on the Next Set Rotation
Because he is... a FUCKING GOD!!!!
User Interface Wishlist
Some nice ideas in your post. I feel the UI is, in most respects, perfectly serviceable, so I don't see these as too big of a priority. The biggest one to me would probably be the ability to select an image for each deck. I also wish we could right-click cards in the rewards-opening screen.
Blizzard May be Reverting Card Nerfs on the Next Set Rotation
It would be fun to see some dudes posting pictures of Embiggen Druid with a 5/5 charge on turn 1...