The reason they introduced Standard and Wild in the first place was, among other things, to allow classes to do something different for a certain amount of time. For example, Hunters had difficulty generating value, so lets give them DK Rexxar for a year and a half, let them wear that hat for a while (I know, Hunter have a LOT of value nowadays but that wasn't the case before).
The post they made to describe class identity was literally a way for them to spit on that idea. Quite frankly, if they go through with it, there is a chance that the rotation cycles will no longer feel special because the classes will be forced to play the same way, just with different cards.
In the meantime, a rotating classic set (for example) which would allow them much more freedom to tweak with classes for a period is something that eludes them. Not only that, the fact that the dust and gold systems continue being outdated and extremely detrimental to new players is also ignored.
MTGA is a more expensive game than Hearthstone and even they allow for a F2P guy like me to get pretty much every deck I want without the fear of crafting cards and getting them from packs later. HS only allows that for Legendary minions. Meanwhile, I crafted one Jumbo Imp so I could have two to try a Demonlock deck and I got two extras as my two following epic drops from RoS. By doing stuff like that, they maybe make a small percentage of whales spend an extra 100$/€ on packs for that extra golden legendary but, guess what, they were already going to do that.
What will also happen is people who decide to sometimes spend money on pack promotions feel like their money won't mean as much if half the epics you get are extras while you never get the two copies of the cool yet terrible card you just want to have fun with.
PS: Yeah, the last two paragraphs were mostly unrelated rant filled with confirmation bias, but those greedy business practices of treating costumers like cash registers really annoy me. And this "class identity" speech really reeks of the greedy business practice.
In fact, you should never craft epics in hearthstone; and that means that you will not play some deck until you find the right epic in packs. That sometime won't happen. Then you find 2x druid odd epic in Witchwood and use Odd Druid to (un)climb just because.
However, I think almost the same you wrote: the system of classes and rotations means that every expansion is not based on class identity: it's based on breaking some point of class identity. For example: in a set X we give a good healing to warlock just to push controllock, then after rotation we print a lot of small minion for pushing zoolock; in the same set X, we print a lot of Rush/charge minion for warrior, while after the rotation we print a new way to gain the upgraded hero power.
This would mean that in standard you always play classes in the standard way (pun intended) and in a new way that change yearly, while in wild after some sets you will be able to play every archetype (aggro, midrange, control, combo) with every classes, but in 9 different ways.
Instead, if we focus too much on class identity, we'll have always the same standard archetype in standard, and the same standard archetype but overpowered in wild. Only that in standard you can forget to reprint some tools for some classes, so they'll disappear while others shine.
If they ever wanted to print a card with this exact effect, it had to be a Basic card. Imagine this being from the new expansion. People certainly wouldn't be happy...
I suppose ur not wrong. Chronologically, all the other similar cards are just better variants of this, a Basic card :D It just feels so shitty being added after them, but i guess i do appreciate the reversed consistency (intended or not).
I honestly didn't think much of it. After reading this post I looked at Rogue again and laughed a little when one of their weaknesses is "multi-minion buffs". No wonder Team 5 has nerfed the Rogue quest over and over again to try and kill it! They must not have known that was a desired weakness of the class when they printed that one!
The reason they introduced Standard and Wild in the first place was, among other things, to allow classes to do something different for a certain amount of time. For example, Hunters had difficulty generating value, so lets give them DK Rexxar for a year and a half, let them wear that hat for a while (I know, Hunter have a LOT of value nowadays but that wasn't the case before).
The post they made to describe class identity was literally a way for them to spit on that idea. Quite frankly, if they go through with it, there is a chance that the rotation cycles will no longer feel special because the classes will be forced to play the same way, just with different cards.
In the meantime, a rotating classic set (for example) which would allow them much more freedom to tweak with classes for a period is something that eludes them. Not only that, the fact that the dust and gold systems continue being outdated and extremely detrimental to new players is also ignored.
MTGA is a more expensive game than Hearthstone and even they allow for a F2P guy like me to get pretty much every deck I want without the fear of crafting cards and getting them from packs later. HS only allows that for Legendary minions. Meanwhile, I crafted one Jumbo Imp so I could have two to try a Demonlock deck and I got two extras as my two following epic drops from RoS. By doing stuff like that, they maybe make a small percentage of whales spend an extra 100$/€ on packs for that extra golden legendary but, guess what, they were already going to do that.
What will also happen is people who decide to sometimes spend money on pack promotions feel like their money won't mean as much if half the epics you get are extras while you never get the two copies of the cool yet terrible card you just want to have fun with.
PS: Yeah, the last two paragraphs were mostly unrelated rant filled with confirmation bias, but those greedy business practices of treating costumers like cash registers really annoy me. And this "class identity" speech really reeks of the greedy business practice.
I don't agree on your assessment of Siegebreaker and Gift of the Wild, but other than that I have the same impression of the new classic cards as you. Siegebreaker is comparable to a Violet Warden or Bog Creeper, so probably somewhere between a 2-3?
Gift of the Wild is nowhere near Silver Sword in power level, as you can invest the mana upfront and then build up your board with SS in the following turns. With GotW you'll need a board and at least three minions to be worth the high cost, so it's clearly a win more card. Why would I pick this when I can close out games much cheaper with Blessing of the Ancients or Savage Roar? Honestly I wouldn't even give this a 3 rating.
I also had the impression that each trait was clumsily defined, and... asymmetrical?
Like, words with different weight, somehow put together to fill the list for each class.
eg. Beast is a tag, a flavor if you like, but it has nothing to do on how a given class/archetype works. It's just a tribal synergy. Beasts in Druid work in the same way as Demons in Warlock. So why bothering to define it as a trait?
Same goes with Deathrattle (in Priest). What does that mean? It's just keyword, at best they could have written "sticky minions", that's more like a defining trait.
All that on top of the asymmetrical number of traits, as you mentioned.
Yet I'm happy they spent some effort trying to define class traits. I actually hope they are more restrictive than they've been so far, since their own weaknesses have been blown wide and large up to this point. Too much to even be called "weakness".
I hope it's coherently developed into something meaningful, not random stuff.
Meh, first off you need to cast two spells just to give it a decent statline. That's three cards you're using for a single 9/9. And that's assuming you have two spells in your hand that you can actually use and don't cost more than 2 mana together. This would've been better a 6 mana 5/5 with the same effect.
It is an Elemental so *maybe* Cyclone Mage can make this work?
One random Beast? Nope. Waaaayyy to likely to be really terrible. Terrible to the point that getting King Krush from it would be worthy of putting on YouTube. Might've been a little better if it was 'Discover a Beast'. Even then though, 7 mana 4/4....yeesh.
Only your own Hero? Uhhh.....nope, can't find a use for it. Rogue would have a use for it as cheap heal + combo. Heal Paladin might give it a brief thought. The other classes laugh at this. Priest is crying in the corner.
That moment when a espionage rogue comes with 1 mana Antonidas/fire ball/ galaxy spell/ sorcerer apprentice/ and just kills you in 2 turns, while you are desparately tring to find your own galaxy spell and draw...
Missile Launcher is the only thing that really comes to mind. And maybe a cheap Rush minion for relatively cheap removal + a 3/3 on the board. There are also a few Deathrattle minions that deal damage to the board or enemy minions when they die, I suppose it's good for those too.
This card requires you to already have a board AND to be able to trade that board. And have it be worth bringing back. For me that would mean stuff like Mechanical Whelp but other than certain Deathrattle minions I'm not seeing too much use for this at 7 mana. Maybe with Boom Bots if they survive a turn.
Personally, I am all against cartoony characters, but this is just a card.
Also, Faerie Dragon is cartoonish just as much. I mean, a magic frog with batterfly wings. And as if it wasn't ridiculous enough, deemed a Dragon. Eh...
With all due respect, I think they could stop beating rogue down, It's been what, 5 to infinite hits last year? Cold blood, vanish, the draw pirate/weapon card, evil miscreant, and prep, which makes an uncountable nerf to all of the big spells and combo cards... Can't be happy seeing another fun class getting destroyed, forcing me to go and play more hunter :(
Just goes to show just how many OP cards Rogue keeps getting, really ;-
for those of you who are saying "LOL this class does not have this weakness because one card, DuH". a class weakness does not mean that in all of hearthstone ever they cannot have one/two cards that can give them that.
Basically this, guys. These aren't hard and fast rules that they must always adhere to strictly. They're general guidelines that can be toyed with to fit whatever fantasy the current set of expacs are selling.
I get those are no hard rules but why bring them out at all, just be sincere and say "we can't balance vanish and mind blast so we're gonna dump em into wild, cya"
Because that isn't what happened. Vanish isn't even a particularly good card.
New Neutral Minion - High Inquisitor Whitemane
Great tool for some midrange decks, but I think it is pretty weak as it requires to have board control before playing it. I like it.
I rate it 2/5
Anyone else think the recent post about class pros/cons is incredibly lopsided?
In fact, you should never craft epics in hearthstone; and that means that you will not play some deck until you find the right epic in packs. That sometime won't happen. Then you find 2x druid odd epic in Witchwood and use Odd Druid to (un)climb just because.
However, I think almost the same you wrote: the system of classes and rotations means that every expansion is not based on class identity: it's based on breaking some point of class identity. For example: in a set X we give a good healing to warlock just to push controllock, then after rotation we print a lot of small minion for pushing zoolock; in the same set X, we print a lot of Rush/charge minion for warrior, while after the rotation we print a new way to gain the upgraded hero power.
This would mean that in standard you always play classes in the standard way (pun intended) and in a new way that change yearly, while in wild after some sets you will be able to play every archetype (aggro, midrange, control, combo) with every classes, but in 9 different ways.
Instead, if we focus too much on class identity, we'll have always the same standard archetype in standard, and the same standard archetype but overpowered in wild. Only that in standard you can forget to reprint some tools for some classes, so they'll disappear while others shine.
New Neutral Minion - SI:7 Infiltrator
Solid card. Good if secrets ever become oppressive 8/10
Anyone else think the recent post about class pros/cons is incredibly lopsided?
One of the Shaman strengths listed was ‘totems’ which hasn’t been good since Totem Golem and Thing from Below. It’s still the only RNG Hero Power
New Priest Spell - Radiance
I suppose ur not wrong. Chronologically, all the other similar cards are just better variants of this, a Basic card :D It just feels so shitty being added after them, but i guess i do appreciate the reversed consistency (intended or not).
Anyone else think the recent post about class pros/cons is incredibly lopsided?
I honestly didn't think much of it. After reading this post I looked at Rogue again and laughed a little when one of their weaknesses is "multi-minion buffs". No wonder Team 5 has nerfed the Rogue quest over and over again to try and kill it! They must not have known that was a desired weakness of the class when they printed that one!
Anyone else think the recent post about class pros/cons is incredibly lopsided?
Better than all putting on our tinfoil hats!
Anyone else think the recent post about class pros/cons is incredibly lopsided?
The reason they introduced Standard and Wild in the first place was, among other things, to allow classes to do something different for a certain amount of time. For example, Hunters had difficulty generating value, so lets give them DK Rexxar for a year and a half, let them wear that hat for a while (I know, Hunter have a LOT of value nowadays but that wasn't the case before).
The post they made to describe class identity was literally a way for them to spit on that idea. Quite frankly, if they go through with it, there is a chance that the rotation cycles will no longer feel special because the classes will be forced to play the same way, just with different cards.
In the meantime, a rotating classic set (for example) which would allow them much more freedom to tweak with classes for a period is something that eludes them. Not only that, the fact that the dust and gold systems continue being outdated and extremely detrimental to new players is also ignored.
MTGA is a more expensive game than Hearthstone and even they allow for a F2P guy like me to get pretty much every deck I want without the fear of crafting cards and getting them from packs later. HS only allows that for Legendary minions. Meanwhile, I crafted one Jumbo Imp so I could have two to try a Demonlock deck and I got two extras as my two following epic drops from RoS. By doing stuff like that, they maybe make a small percentage of whales spend an extra 100$/€ on packs for that extra golden legendary but, guess what, they were already going to do that.
What will also happen is people who decide to sometimes spend money on pack promotions feel like their money won't mean as much if half the epics you get are extras while you never get the two copies of the cool yet terrible card you just want to have fun with.
PS: Yeah, the last two paragraphs were mostly unrelated rant filled with confirmation bias, but those greedy business practices of treating costumers like cash registers really annoy me. And this "class identity" speech really reeks of the greedy business practice.
[Arena Impact] 10 New basic/classic cards
I don't agree on your assessment of Siegebreaker and Gift of the Wild, but other than that I have the same impression of the new classic cards as you. Siegebreaker is comparable to a Violet Warden or Bog Creeper, so probably somewhere between a 2-3?
Gift of the Wild is nowhere near Silver Sword in power level, as you can invest the mana upfront and then build up your board with SS in the following turns. With GotW you'll need a board and at least three minions to be worth the high cost, so it's clearly a win more card. Why would I pick this when I can close out games much cheaper with Blessing of the Ancients or Savage Roar? Honestly I wouldn't even give this a 3 rating.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag : Jabberwocky#21416
Region : EU
Trade only : Yes, you go first
Anyone else think the recent post about class pros/cons is incredibly lopsided?
I also had the impression that each trait was clumsily defined, and... asymmetrical?
Like, words with different weight, somehow put together to fill the list for each class.
eg. Beast is a tag, a flavor if you like, but it has nothing to do on how a given class/archetype works. It's just a tribal synergy. Beasts in Druid work in the same way as Demons in Warlock. So why bothering to define it as a trait?
Same goes with Deathrattle (in Priest). What does that mean? It's just keyword, at best they could have written "sticky minions", that's more like a defining trait.
All that on top of the asymmetrical number of traits, as you mentioned.
Yet I'm happy they spent some effort trying to define class traits. I actually hope they are more restrictive than they've been so far, since their own weaknesses have been blown wide and large up to this point. Too much to even be called "weakness".
I hope it's coherently developed into something meaningful, not random stuff.
10 New Hearthstone Cards Coming to the Game, New Hall of Fame Additions
Blade Flurry, Fan of Knives. S'bout it.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
The most fearsome monster in the Witchwood.
Despacito. Quiero llenar tu deck con mierda despacito 🎶
Next: A Druid minion.
Anyone else think the recent post about class pros/cons is incredibly lopsided?
Yeah sure, let's all believe the class identity tale haha
Recommend me a fun deck
That's fun for me:
Wild · Unknown Warrior · by anchorm4n · 7 years, 2 months ago
New Neutral Minion - Arcane Devourer
Meh, first off you need to cast two spells just to give it a decent statline. That's three cards you're using for a single 9/9. And that's assuming you have two spells in your hand that you can actually use and don't cost more than 2 mana together. This would've been better a 6 mana 5/5 with the same effect.
It is an Elemental so *maybe* Cyclone Mage can make this work?
New Neutral Minion - Barrens Stablehand
One random Beast? Nope. Waaaayyy to likely to be really terrible. Terrible to the point that getting King Krush from it would be worthy of putting on YouTube. Might've been a little better if it was 'Discover a Beast'. Even then though, 7 mana 4/4....yeesh.
New Priest Spell - Radiance
Only your own Hero? Uhhh.....nope, can't find a use for it. Rogue would have a use for it as cheap heal + combo. Heal Paladin might give it a brief thought. The other classes laugh at this. Priest is crying in the corner.
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
That moment when a espionage rogue comes with 1 mana Antonidas/fire ball/ galaxy spell/ sorcerer apprentice/ and just kills you in 2 turns, while you are desparately tring to find your own galaxy spell and draw...
New Rogue Minion - Plaguebringer
Missile Launcher is the only thing that really comes to mind. And maybe a cheap Rush minion for relatively cheap removal + a 3/3 on the board. There are also a few Deathrattle minions that deal damage to the board or enemy minions when they die, I suppose it's good for those too.
New Neutral Minion - High Inquisitor Whitemane
This card requires you to already have a board AND to be able to trade that board. And have it be worth bringing back. For me that would mean stuff like Mechanical Whelp but other than certain Deathrattle minions I'm not seeing too much use for this at 7 mana. Maybe with Boom Bots if they survive a turn.
10 New Hearthstone Cards Coming to the Game, New Hall of Fame Additions
The clue is probably in the name though ;-)
10 New Hearthstone Cards Coming to the Game, New Hall of Fame Additions
Just goes to show just how many OP cards Rogue keeps getting, really ;-
Anyone else think the recent post about class pros/cons is incredibly lopsided?
Because that isn't what happened. Vanish isn't even a particularly good card.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: Elric#12865
Region: NA
Trade Only: Yes
Still looking.
Done