I feel like everyone is hating on Imprisoned Antoen or Priestess of Fury because they are powerhouse cards, but honestly not many decks run them naturally right now. And as someone who likes the DH class it's gotten neutered to the point of almost obsolescence. The only deck viable in high ranks it seems is tempo (aka aggro) and maybe the OTK variant with Kael.
Honestly Imprisoned Antoen isn't even a problem BEFORE the nerfs. If by the time turn 8 rolls around and you can't figure out a way to soak 10 damage that's split, that's on YOU (the opposing player) not the card. I mean it's actually BETTER for players as a dormant minion because it can be played around somewhat. They could just change it's cost from 6-8, and make it a battlecry, and then players would have zero chance to counter it.
I'd like to see more viable decks other than aggro DH, and honestly I hope the class doesn't get nerfed.
All in all I just find it amusing because if this was Hunter, noone would be complaining but hunter throws out just as much early damage as DH yet flies under the radar all the time.
- a casual look into hsreplay will show Priestess of Fury as one of the highest win rate cards for tempo dhunter. Let's not debate why. It should be pretty obvious.
- For pre-nerf Imprisoned Antaen. Its not the soaking thats the problem. You either take the damage to the face, or risk having your board removed. Then Priestess of Fury just finishes whatever's left, which includes you. And assuming you're still alive, you're facing down a 10/6 and a 6/7, while having no minions on your side, and this is turn 7. Is this a problem? Yes, yes it is.
- Last point. I remember lots of complains against how one sided face hunter is in DoD. I myself hate that deck, because I see it as limiting other classes and making res priest a popular choice. That is still true by the way as it was when galakrond shaman was tops. No class should get any free passes, not even for Illidan.
- And no, you're wrong in saying that hunter throws out as much early damage. I dont think this is important but for argument sake; At its most, (assuming no clears) Blazing Battlemage turn 1 + turn 2 Phase Stalker + turn 3 Stormhammer = 9 damage by turn 3.
Took bloody long, but please do it this time blizzard. I'm not saying this because I have a golden Darkest Hour and Bloodbloom. No. Really. The fact that [Hearthstone Card (crystal caverns) Not Found] been nerfed three times and Open the Waygate is merely being considered for one should be made a crime.
I dont see why they dont just make Lord Jaraxxus a hero card already. Or at least make him immune to sac pact. Its kinda a real old meme at this point.
Changes to Frenzied Felwing is perhaps expected, given that dhunters can legitimately get this out by turn 1 if necessary. I expect them to bump the mana cost by 1 or 2.
Bad Luck Albatross is a counter to highlander. But subtlety its actually a counter to nearly every deck, since many classes now can barely draw cards. I didnt expect anything to be done over this card, but Im glad they're doing something about it.
Just make Kael'thas Sunstrider enable only the first 3rd spell. Its not really going to ruin any combos given that most classes barely have any 0 mana cost spell. Its only truly viable in druid, and team5 should take that as an indicator about that class as a whole.
With exception of a few games to feel up the decks, been avoiding tempo and OTK dhunters like the plague. Just dont like climbing ladder with decks like this. It feels dirty, as you have experienced evidently. If I have to play meta decks at all, I'd like to make some changes into them so I can feel like I've contributed to the deck's power to some degree.
Of course, with principles like this comes poor rank climbing. Been stuck around rank 7 diamond for some time, trying desperately making decks like zixor combo hunter work. I might move on to try ranking up with paladin or shaman next. Wonder what my rank would be by the end of the month had it not been for rank floors.
Without a doubt tempo dhunters is going to dominate until next expansion or until some nerfs are set. Its greatest gift to all of hearthstone is to completely ensure that other tempo decks cant exist, and making res priest a dominant and popular deck. Truly evil indeed.
Its more likely that because any deck that is not dhunters are generally running a heavy deck that cant afford to destroy a turn 2 totem. Totemic Might puts it away from reach and it snowballs from there.
The deck performs abysmally against dhunters, and my suspicion is that the deck does poorly against anything that can stick a turn 1 minion.
Probably not. If its not explicitly stated that the rewards are golden cards, its probably not going to happen. All the rewards are given, not gambled out of packs.
I dont have a source, but judging from experience. In most cases, given rewards are explicit, and I see no reason why blizzard would do anything about this.
Was kinda waiting for your meta report, since its the first for AoO.
So its kinda obvious that dhunters is currently on top. Post nerf I saw it drop to around 48% on hsreplay but that didn't last. Warrior being dumpster class should be obvious, seeing that it cant really draw efficiently as it had, and losing nearly all its control tools and Dr Boom, which was its only win condition. But I remain confident that some kind of midrange aggro warrior can make a comeback.
Druid is probably the best class to play now, with Overgrowth being the key card. Its literally Wild Growth all over again. Get it on curve and win, don't and that's a mountain of a climb. Its kinda silly how much all the current druid builds depend on this card played on curve. I have high hopes for shaman as well, surprisingly Boggspine Knuckles is kinda well, good.
The paladin Libram list seemed unrefined to me. Its a little strange how good Hand of A'dal is and yet there's no sticky 1 drops like Argent Squire added. Also, no Imprisoned Vilefiend, and no Archmage Vargoth, which actually does well with cheap libram spells. I think Kael'thas Sunstrider can help a little too; double Libram of Wisdom into Lay on Hands may be a winning play in my opinion. Until something is done with dhunters, pure paladin may never resurface ever again. Wild Pyromancer is absolutely the best card in paladin right now.
Lastly, my thoughts on dhunters, in view of the meta currently; I think team5 ultimately needs to relook into the dhunter class, cause its not carving its own identity against the other classes, its literally playing like a mishmash of both rogue and hunter but with none of the classes' weaknesses. Securing tempo with face and cheap spells is all well and enough, but having the best early game minions as well is just an overkill. The ability for dhunters to secure the early game is absurd, and it should come as no surprise that hunters, rogues, and crucially paladin suffered the most as a result. In a way, if this continues we might never see another aggro-tempo class since its just not possible to stick an early board against a dhunter midrange deck, never mind an aggro list.
One solution against this is to bring back Glacial Shard to standard, or add some other conditional neutral 1-mana freeze minion. Another might be to make adjustments to how cards like Twin Slice work. Maybe Second Slice only gets added to the hand at the end of the turn. Its not much, but it indirectly nerfs just about everything broken in dhunters, like Altruis the Outcast and OTK dhunters. It still allows dhunters to play its synergies and at the same time addresses some of the more egregious problems.
I'm surprised you could survive the deluge of midrange dhunters to climb up the ranks, but from your written words, it appears you're not doing well with dhunters, in its current iteration anyway.
Your prognostication about plot twist warlock becoming better if dhunters got further nerfed, I can't say I see it myself. The only reason why galakrond warlock and handlock style decks manages well is because traditional counters like hunter and highlander mage just couldnt get a break because of dhunters. Nerfing dhunters may allow them to run wild again and handlock decks will suffer, like really badly. And ever since Dollmaster Dorian is no longer an option (he's literally the real engine, being 3 turns faster than Fel Lord Betrug) its not been a good time for plot twist lovers.
Not to mention that even with the revamp priest still has more reactive cards than other classes.
Also with dhunters practically dominating the early and mid game, and natural counters to res priest like highlander mage and shaman being nearly wiped out, its only normal that res priest is meta right now.
Its one of those rare decks that singularly invites scorn from nearly everyone including those who play it, and yet because of pure win rate alone still haunts the meta from time to time.
Zephrys does offer some options unavailable to be played on the current turn like Pyroblast and Mind Control, but that's about it. He's already sometimes unreliable (if your opponent casts Grave Rune, zephrys almost never gives you an option for silence) so I don't think its a good idea for him to now give you an option for a dormant minion, especially since when you play him you will probably want him to offer something immediately relevant, and one less of a choice can decide games.
It gives you some options when it comes to tempo, but it can't out tempo demon hunters and doesnt have the necessary value to beat res priest. It can beat any types of warlock, but that's about it.
Its not a good meta for tempo hunters. Your best bet is face hunter with Teron Gorefiend, or new quest hunter. Good old dragon hunter still works, sometimes, but just not good enough to beat dhunters and res priest, and also struggles with galakrond warlock too.
Unless some nerfs starts getting in, expect hunter to be good against the half of all the classes and absolutely trash against the other half.
Its just one of those grey spots that only devs can answer. If you trade with it and it dies, does the dormant minion still gets removed from the board?
Maybe this will get clarified on twitter with Dean Ayala or something.
Your opponent has a 5 mana lead on you, and you didnt draw your soul mirror on time. Also you didnt have convincing infiltrator early.
Just bad rng, which is why most decks dont get past 55% win rates in general. This is particularly bad with res priest since their cards are so expensive, and priest cant draw for shit. So you can literally have games where you skip the first 6 turns cause your hands too reactive and expensive.
Just take a break and try again. A general advice is to try climbing with decks you actually like, so you'll play longer and the losses dont feel too bad.
Looks like its a bug, or its the way the effect was coded. Could be that the card is actually a 3/6 with 2 damage reduced when it takes damage
Not sure about this, but when the card is played, his attack doesnt glow green to indicate a buff. Perhaps its a case of the effect being coded differently than the description despite both having the same apparent effect.
I think the nerfs are okay, for now, while the meta readjusts itself.
One of the biggest problem with dhunters was their incredible healing and tempo swings. So nerfing Eye Beam and Aldrachi Warblades might have more impact than meets the eye.
Also, skull nerf means it might be more difficult to chain draw cards off the Skull of Gul'dan.
- a casual look into hsreplay will show Priestess of Fury as one of the highest win rate cards for tempo dhunter. Let's not debate why. It should be pretty obvious.
- For pre-nerf Imprisoned Antaen. Its not the soaking thats the problem. You either take the damage to the face, or risk having your board removed. Then Priestess of Fury just finishes whatever's left, which includes you. And assuming you're still alive, you're facing down a 10/6 and a 6/7, while having no minions on your side, and this is turn 7. Is this a problem? Yes, yes it is.
- Last point. I remember lots of complains against how one sided face hunter is in DoD. I myself hate that deck, because I see it as limiting other classes and making res priest a popular choice. That is still true by the way as it was when galakrond shaman was tops. No class should get any free passes, not even for Illidan.
- And no, you're wrong in saying that hunter throws out as much early damage. I dont think this is important but for argument sake; At its most, (assuming no clears) Blazing Battlemage turn 1 + turn 2 Phase Stalker + turn 3 Stormhammer = 9 damage by turn 3.
Turn 1 Battlefiend + turn 2 Umberwing + turn 3 Aldrachi Warblades = 14 damage by turn 3. And dhunter can absolutely do more with Twin Slice and Frenzied Felwing turn 1 and 2. In fact, leaving Battlefiend alive for more than 1 turn is generally considered to be a losing play.
Probably increase Open the Waygate condition to 10. Maybe even 12, judging from how stuff like this is dealt historically.
Its under 'consideration'
It'll be broken at some point in hearthstone history. Just gotta believe
Took bloody long, but please do it this time blizzard. I'm not saying this because I have a golden Darkest Hour and Bloodbloom. No. Really. The fact that [Hearthstone Card (crystal caverns) Not Found] been nerfed three times and Open the Waygate is merely being considered for one should be made a crime.
I dont see why they dont just make Lord Jaraxxus a hero card already. Or at least make him immune to sac pact. Its kinda a real old meme at this point.
Changes to Frenzied Felwing is perhaps expected, given that dhunters can legitimately get this out by turn 1 if necessary. I expect them to bump the mana cost by 1 or 2.
Bad Luck Albatross is a counter to highlander. But subtlety its actually a counter to nearly every deck, since many classes now can barely draw cards. I didnt expect anything to be done over this card, but Im glad they're doing something about it.
Just make Kael'thas Sunstrider enable only the first 3rd spell. Its not really going to ruin any combos given that most classes barely have any 0 mana cost spell. Its only truly viable in druid, and team5 should take that as an indicator about that class as a whole.
Isnt the best paladin now currently murloc pally, at around 54 - 60% win rate?
Totem shaman taking advantage of its innocent looks. For now.
With exception of a few games to feel up the decks, been avoiding tempo and OTK dhunters like the plague. Just dont like climbing ladder with decks like this. It feels dirty, as you have experienced evidently. If I have to play meta decks at all, I'd like to make some changes into them so I can feel like I've contributed to the deck's power to some degree.
Of course, with principles like this comes poor rank climbing. Been stuck around rank 7 diamond for some time, trying desperately making decks like zixor combo hunter work. I might move on to try ranking up with paladin or shaman next. Wonder what my rank would be by the end of the month had it not been for rank floors.
Without a doubt tempo dhunters is going to dominate until next expansion or until some nerfs are set. Its greatest gift to all of hearthstone is to completely ensure that other tempo decks cant exist, and making res priest a dominant and popular deck. Truly evil indeed.
Its more likely that because any deck that is not dhunters are generally running a heavy deck that cant afford to destroy a turn 2 totem. Totemic Might puts it away from reach and it snowballs from there.
The deck performs abysmally against dhunters, and my suspicion is that the deck does poorly against anything that can stick a turn 1 minion.
Probably not. If its not explicitly stated that the rewards are golden cards, its probably not going to happen. All the rewards are given, not gambled out of packs.
I dont have a source, but judging from experience. In most cases, given rewards are explicit, and I see no reason why blizzard would do anything about this.
Was kinda waiting for your meta report, since its the first for AoO.
So its kinda obvious that dhunters is currently on top. Post nerf I saw it drop to around 48% on hsreplay but that didn't last. Warrior being dumpster class should be obvious, seeing that it cant really draw efficiently as it had, and losing nearly all its control tools and Dr Boom, which was its only win condition. But I remain confident that some kind of midrange aggro warrior can make a comeback.
Druid is probably the best class to play now, with Overgrowth being the key card. Its literally Wild Growth all over again. Get it on curve and win, don't and that's a mountain of a climb. Its kinda silly how much all the current druid builds depend on this card played on curve. I have high hopes for shaman as well, surprisingly Boggspine Knuckles is kinda well, good.
The paladin Libram list seemed unrefined to me. Its a little strange how good Hand of A'dal is and yet there's no sticky 1 drops like Argent Squire added. Also, no Imprisoned Vilefiend, and no Archmage Vargoth, which actually does well with cheap libram spells. I think Kael'thas Sunstrider can help a little too; double Libram of Wisdom into Lay on Hands may be a winning play in my opinion. Until something is done with dhunters, pure paladin may never resurface ever again. Wild Pyromancer is absolutely the best card in paladin right now.
Lastly, my thoughts on dhunters, in view of the meta currently; I think team5 ultimately needs to relook into the dhunter class, cause its not carving its own identity against the other classes, its literally playing like a mishmash of both rogue and hunter but with none of the classes' weaknesses. Securing tempo with face and cheap spells is all well and enough, but having the best early game minions as well is just an overkill. The ability for dhunters to secure the early game is absurd, and it should come as no surprise that hunters, rogues, and crucially paladin suffered the most as a result. In a way, if this continues we might never see another aggro-tempo class since its just not possible to stick an early board against a dhunter midrange deck, never mind an aggro list.
One solution against this is to bring back Glacial Shard to standard, or add some other conditional neutral 1-mana freeze minion. Another might be to make adjustments to how cards like Twin Slice work. Maybe Second Slice only gets added to the hand at the end of the turn. Its not much, but it indirectly nerfs just about everything broken in dhunters, like Altruis the Outcast and OTK dhunters. It still allows dhunters to play its synergies and at the same time addresses some of the more egregious problems.
I'm surprised you could survive the deluge of midrange dhunters to climb up the ranks, but from your written words, it appears you're not doing well with dhunters, in its current iteration anyway.
Your prognostication about plot twist warlock becoming better if dhunters got further nerfed, I can't say I see it myself. The only reason why galakrond warlock and handlock style decks manages well is because traditional counters like hunter and highlander mage just couldnt get a break because of dhunters. Nerfing dhunters may allow them to run wild again and handlock decks will suffer, like really badly. And ever since Dollmaster Dorian is no longer an option (he's literally the real engine, being 3 turns faster than Fel Lord Betrug) its not been a good time for plot twist lovers.
The problem is not with the variety of priest decks, its just res priest being very very good.
Its not really that hard to figure it out. Catrina Muerte + Mass Resurrection, Archmage Vargoth + Mass Resurrection simply out values everything in hearthstone now.
Not to mention that even with the revamp priest still has more reactive cards than other classes.
Also with dhunters practically dominating the early and mid game, and natural counters to res priest like highlander mage and shaman being nearly wiped out, its only normal that res priest is meta right now.
Its one of those rare decks that singularly invites scorn from nearly everyone including those who play it, and yet because of pure win rate alone still haunts the meta from time to time.
Zephrys does offer some options unavailable to be played on the current turn like Pyroblast and Mind Control, but that's about it. He's already sometimes unreliable (if your opponent casts Grave Rune, zephrys almost never gives you an option for silence) so I don't think its a good idea for him to now give you an option for a dormant minion, especially since when you play him you will probably want him to offer something immediately relevant, and one less of a choice can decide games.
I made some modifications with dragon hunter, to include stuff like Diving Gryphon, Zixor, Apex Predator, Scavenger's Ingenuity and Scrap Shot.
It gives you some options when it comes to tempo, but it can't out tempo demon hunters and doesnt have the necessary value to beat res priest. It can beat any types of warlock, but that's about it.
Its not a good meta for tempo hunters. Your best bet is face hunter with Teron Gorefiend, or new quest hunter. Good old dragon hunter still works, sometimes, but just not good enough to beat dhunters and res priest, and also struggles with galakrond warlock too.
Unless some nerfs starts getting in, expect hunter to be good against the half of all the classes and absolutely trash against the other half.
Yeah, but they also said that they werent going to to make this a weekly thing.
Next one is probably one month later.
Its just one of those grey spots that only devs can answer. If you trade with it and it dies, does the dormant minion still gets removed from the board?
Maybe this will get clarified on twitter with Dean Ayala or something.
Your opponent has a 5 mana lead on you, and you didnt draw your soul mirror on time. Also you didnt have convincing infiltrator early.
Just bad rng, which is why most decks dont get past 55% win rates in general. This is particularly bad with res priest since their cards are so expensive, and priest cant draw for shit. So you can literally have games where you skip the first 6 turns cause your hands too reactive and expensive.
Just take a break and try again. A general advice is to try climbing with decks you actually like, so you'll play longer and the losses dont feel too bad.
Looks like its a bug, or its the way the effect was coded. Could be that the card is actually a 3/6 with 2 damage reduced when it takes damage
Not sure about this, but when the card is played, his attack doesnt glow green to indicate a buff. Perhaps its a case of the effect being coded differently than the description despite both having the same apparent effect.
Had to be done, to prevent the spread of COVID. It would be irresponsible to hype up blizzcon in midst of a pandemic.
Then again, judging by the going ons in the last 2 blizzcons, it might be tactical to skip at least this one anyway.
I think the nerfs are okay, for now, while the meta readjusts itself.
One of the biggest problem with dhunters was their incredible healing and tempo swings. So nerfing Eye Beam and Aldrachi Warblades might have more impact than meets the eye.
Also, skull nerf means it might be more difficult to chain draw cards off the Skull of Gul'dan.