I would like this card so much more if only it was fast speed!
At slow speed, I'm struggling to see the advantages. If you have an expensive unit that's about to die, you can heal it back to full. You can repeat any summoning effects, so maybe The Rekindler or Tianna Crownguard? There's also the obvious benefits of the stat gain and progressing Kench, but I'm just not sure that's enough for a card slot unless there's an added synergy with the captured unit itself.
I think Bayou Brunch could only be a Slow speed card because making it Fast would be probably too good? It would basically act like Glimpse Beyond where it grants you value from killing your unit and wasting your opponent's resources.
The problem is that the opponent could respond with a Vile Feast and counter your entire 5 mana spell. Because of that, you would have to think a lot about which unit to sacrifice
Or you can just assert dominance and watch your opponent spam Braum/Jinx emote (depending on the outcome).
This card seems insane tbh? I'm not sure but at the very least this stops Zed from attacking on turn 3 which is really rare for any card to do consistently.
This seems rather weak compared to how insane 1-drops are nowadays. I think that only Tahm Kench and Vlad could save this card, it's not even that good with healing.
Is it though? It seems to be pretty good for healing. It is a 1 Mana 2/2 which is something Vlad decks would love and it is a target for Gems early on so it doesn't clump up in your hand. There's probably a healing synergy if Soraka gets revealed this expansion
One thing to note is that you could play this on turn 3 with full mana banked and a Hapless Aristocrat on board. Why? No clue. Maybe on a turn 3 The Slaughter Docks? I think that this card can see play in a Last Breath focused deck, but we'll see.
I highly doubt that it's any of them. Firstly, because SI and Freljord already got their champs and they said that all regions are getting 1 only. Secondly, the leaked voice lines that are left are Soraka, Zoe, Riven, Tahm Kench, Viktor, and Shyvana, and having anyone else aside from them is going to be surprising. Though it's not out of consideration. Tristana could be PnZ even without any leaked voice lines because there is Poro Cannon and it'd make sense if that's her card.
My predictions judging from the Road Map in the end, showed someone who looked like the same race as Black Market Merchant and Tahm Kench so based on that I'll say that we're getting Tahm Kench for Bilgewater. I'd say we're also probably going to get Soraka because a lot of her cards are already out and the last champ is going to be a completely random one. I'll take a guess and say it's Viktor just because I think that they could save Demacia and Noxus as the last one and base a theme around the two of them.
I'm curious how this will work when it kills a unit and you don't have another unit with 1 cost higher than that unit. Will it even kill the unit? Or will it just summon the next highest? The way it's worded makes me think it will just kill the unit entirely. Meaning that this card would counter its own gameplan by killing the highest cost unit every time and summon nothing after. The way it works makes me think it's probably best to put it in a Tryndamere deck or maybe a new upcoming Last Breath archetype from SI? Not really sure how it's gonna work out but it's a card I would love to tinker with.
Can we at least agree that maybe Sejuani should be harder to level up?
Considering that, like Ezreal, she levels up off the board and she's utterly backbreaking once she gets there, I think adding 1 or 2 rounds to her requirement would not be out of line.
I just want to say this because we're talking about Sejuani's level up but the effect is inconsistent. The wording is similar to Lucian's leveled up effect but it doesn't trigger the way Lucian does where it has to wait a turn before you can trigger it and Rally. Meanwhile, Sejuani is able to freeze the board in the same turn you level her up? I'm not sure why it's like this but I feel like this should be considered a bug. I also feel like that if they do change it so it's more consistent with Lucian, it'd be a pretty decent nerf.
I think the topic subject is quite interesting, the problem is how you present it: "Hey guys, i am an expert at this game, riot team are just a bunch of incompetent scrubs, here are my reason why and everyone who disagrees is also a scrub"
Back to the topic: 1- Jagged Butcher isn't the best drop 1 in the game. Precious Pet is. There is no 1 drop that can trade with Precious Pet on T1 alone. If we are taking 2 card combo into consideration, then the best T1 drop would be Zaunite Urchin + Jury-Rig, as this particular combo also generates 3 attack stats but without losing card advantage. So either way you are wrong.
2- Make it Rain is only situational good. The catch is that those "situations" happens quite often in the current meta. What makes this card particularly decent is its synergy with Kegs and holds a reliable Plunder effect. Best removal in the game is by far Ravenous Flock
3- Riptide Rex is not a finisher card. Is an AOE removal that SOMETIMES works also as a finisher. There isn't a single deck with a gameplan relying exclusively on Riptide Rex to close games.
4- Sejuani I see where you are going. I agree Sejuani has much better synergy with Bilgwater but so does Yasuo with Noxus and Maokai with Bilgwater and so on. I believe those champions were designed to be played on Bilgawater decks, but for Lore reasons they belong to other regions.
5- Petty Officer is the only one a fully agree. It just has too many stats overall with little risk, on top of situationally being able to generate a Keg.
And finally yes, this is indeed a QQ thread due to this part: "but I just want to play the new set, and there's literally no reason to right now and that sucks"
I agree with everything that you said except for the Precious PetBADCARDNAME part, Solari Soldier can trade favorably with pet on turn one.
Counter-argument: I agree with Precious Pet being one of the best and Solari Soldier only beats it turn 1. However, if you don't attack with Precious Pet then Solari Soldier is a 2/2, and I think that most of the times the 3 damage on turn 1 vs 2 damage on turn 2 is better for the one using Precious Pet because it's most likely an aggro deck so damage matters more. Solari Soldier is kinda overrated imo. It's a bit worse than Jagged Butcher late game.
While at the subject, does anyone else think Relentless Pursuit could use a small nerf? Maybe is just me, but i feel this card got really strong with all the scout and support support (lol) added to the game.
I wouldn't mind it that much. I feel like Rally effects are really hard to balance, but making Relentless Pursuit to a 4 Mana card would very much kill it. In which case would effectively make Demacia have only Cithria the Bold and Genevieve Elmheart as finishers.
I wouldn't mind either tbh. I love both regions very much. I would love Cho'gath and I can easily see him being in the game with a concept where he gets bigger with each kill he gets, probably a new big boi control/midrange archetype. I would equally love Rammus to be in the game just as much because I would also love a defense favored keyword instead of offense, maybe a keyword that allows him to block Elusive and Fearsome without being Elusive or 3+ attack.
Though if I had to pick one, I would have to pick Shurima. Mainly because I just want a Rammus OK emote to be in the game lmao.
First, why I think Asol beats out almost all slow decks. I'm not going to claim that slow decks can't beat Asol because there are decks that can beat it such as Warmother's control. However, I think that some decks will have an insanely hard time.
One such deck would be Corina Ledros. I think that they would have a poor matchup against Asol because they can't normally deal with big threats such as Trundle, Mindsplitter, Asol, and other Celestials. That deck only has limited amounts of Thermogenic Beam and Vengeance for those units. Not to mention SpellShields make it incredibly tough for them to beat. Even then, their payoff such as Corina or Ledros + Atrocity doesn't typically beat them because they can just heal with Starshaping or Revitalizing Roar.
But yes, that deck is just hard countered by it. A Nautilus Maokai deck on the other hand would have a very favorable matchup against Ramp Asol as long as they get Deep before Asol is down on the board. Ezreal Karma, in theory, should beat Asol as they could deal with huge threats and stall for a while before going off with their combo but sometimes Asol goes off a bit faster before they get their combo off, and on average Ramp Asol decks should get Asol out on turn 8-9. I think, in that case, an Asol deck is slightly more favored. A deck such using Anivia would be too grindy and take too long to beat Asol, and Asol will just generate Celestials as threats.
Basically, I think that decks that need to reach about 9-10 Mana to go off should lose to Asol's general threats before going off. Grinding him out is not a good gameplan. If they are able to deal with the board or have a gameplan that ignores it then it should be fine as long as they are able to play accordingly. Although I will say that an Asol deck is able to survive a single burst as long as it doesn't kill from full HP.
Also, I might also be getting Meisterz point wrong, but I thought he was on point with the comparison of Ramp Asol with Quest Rogue. A deck that uses big threats and has refills even after having their board cleared, and even though they are a bit control they are a deck that feasts on slow decks. Also, I'm not exactly sure which version of Quest Rogue he was referring to, but in my mind, it'd be the The Caverns Below version that was only nerfed once when the minions were still 5/5s. The deck was one of the highest winrate decks but at the time there were a lot of Mages and Warriors and Quest Rogue has an almost auto-win as long as it's not an aggro deck. I think this was about Rastakhan's Rumble? Even then, I think it was still played after the second nerf.
I don't think Ramp Asol is busted or oppressive, but just unfun to play against if you're a slow control deck. It's just too fast for slower decks but it's too slow for faster decks.
You seem to forget that Aurelion Sol is not always played on T10.
Freljord offers ramp and other decks pull him out with Thresh and keeps reviving him after that.
He can be played on t6-t10.
You're right, but in that case you shouldn't see Aurelion Sol as the problem, but rather the ramp cards and/or Thresh. 10-cost cards should not be made weaker just because there are other cards that allow you to play/summon them earlier.
I suppose I'll say that the ramp cards were never a problem ever again after they got nerfed. (I'm talking about Wyrding Stones, and Catalyst of Aeons) The only new ramp card we got this time around is the Faces of the Old Ones which saw some play but I'm not sure everyone runs it.
I think that the problem with Aurelion Sol is that he is so easy to level and the cards that you use before AurelionBADCARDNAME Sol are very good and synergistic. These cards would be like Infinite MindsplitterBADCARDNAME, Trundle, Starshaping, Icequake, etc. If you're fighting a slow deck then you are most likely going to win as Aurelion Sol is quite hard to beat early on when the opponent still has like 8 Mana (maybe with 2-3 spell Mana banked.) and even if you don't have Aurelion Sol here, you could have Wyrding Stones to Trundle or Icequake on turn 4 and that shuts down some decks entirely.
I remember Meisterz once said that this Ramp Asol deck is very akin to Quest Rogue in Hearthstone and I couldn't agree less. It's a deck that if you are moderately faster than them, you have quite a good chance to win as long as they don't draw an insane hand. The decks that Hellcopter listed as the slow control decks all loses to this Ramp Asol deck for the same reason that these decks just lose because they can't deal with threat after threat after threat without losing resources and being burnt out in the end to a random big Celestial. Because it's not like RuinationBADCARDNAME beats Asol, it's RuinationBADCARDNAME + cheap spell that does.
Then the easy fix to him is just to make his Level Up to be worse than it is right now. Either its condition, its payoff, or both.
The deck isn't high winrate but that's only because the decks it loses to are the ones that are in Tier 1. Mostly decks that have good midrange and burn tools. I expect that Ramp Asol would do better if some of these Tier 1 decks weren't here, but I don't expect the winrate to skyrocket because other similar decks would just appear.
Something interesting I found out while playing a similar deck to this is that 1 drops aren't as good as I thought they were. Namely Hapless Aristocrat. Sometimes I find myself just skipping turn 1 Barkbeast because I have a Mistwraith and Risen Mists in Hand so that I can have 2 3/2s with fearsome on the open attack. So I think that you can cut 2 Hapless Aristocrats for something else.
I don't think it is a case of git gud. I've seen quite a fair share of games with Aurelion Sol and yes they may not be the best deck in the game. (I think Swain TF is.) However, I do think that just because it's not Tier 1 does not mean that it does not need tweaking. I think there should be more counterplay to Aurelion Sol, just as there should be more counterplay to other cards like Riptide Rex and Ezreal. That's why I think that if they change Aurelion Sol's Level Up condition, I'd be fine with. Just tone it down a bit. Otherwise, his decks are fine where they are now. The cards they run aren't bad nor are they outright broken. They have a very decent winrate to be called a competitive deck. It's just sometimes unfun to play against.
I think that Aurelion Sol, at least what he does as a card, is fine. His theme is supposed to be a game-ending bomb that allows you to play massive creatures and spells that swing the game in your favor, and that is exactly what he does. A giant space dragon that can create galaxies should have a power that is similar to that.
I think that the problem is that he does it too consistently that most other decks can't really keep up unless they're aggro and beat the crap out of their Nexus. The only good nerf I can imagine that would possibly satisfy everyone is that his Level Up condition needs to be increased, by quite a bit as well. We have Purrsuit of Perfection crying in the corner because even though his statline is massive and works well as a game-ending tool, his condition to summon it is insanely hard to do. Meanwhile, dropping Aurelion Sol on 10 Mana would occasionally just cause him to level up if the opponent has no answers. Maybe his stats as well, because even without leveling up, a 10/10 with SpellShield that draws you a really good card when you play him is already good enough by itself.
I think that Aurelion Sol would be a pretty fair and balanced card if he were an 8/8 that level up when you have 25 or 30 power. That at the very least allows some more counterplay when he is played on 10 Mana.
Yeah, I know. He just kinda falls short because of that. This deck has a lot of Nightfall activators already and I don't think his statline helps much here
meister I see 10 nerds arguing over the minuitie of a forum post that barely deserved a glance. What would you call it other than buyers remorse you gigantic tool. Lolz, you guys are hilarious every response is just an indictment of how incredibly sad your life is. I pity you truthfully. Tell me I'm wrong.
I think Bayou Brunch could only be a Slow speed card because making it Fast would be probably too good? It would basically act like Glimpse Beyond where it grants you value from killing your unit and wasting your opponent's resources.
Or you can just assert dominance and watch your opponent spam Braum/Jinx emote (depending on the outcome).
This card seems insane tbh? I'm not sure but at the very least this stops Zed from attacking on turn 3 which is really rare for any card to do consistently.
Is it though? It seems to be pretty good for healing. It is a 1 Mana 2/2 which is something Vlad decks would love and it is a target for Gems early on so it doesn't clump up in your hand. There's probably a healing synergy if Soraka gets revealed this expansion
One thing to note is that you could play this on turn 3 with full mana banked and a Hapless Aristocrat on board. Why? No clue. Maybe on a turn 3 The Slaughter Docks? I think that this card can see play in a Last Breath focused deck, but we'll see.
I highly doubt that it's any of them. Firstly, because SI and Freljord already got their champs and they said that all regions are getting 1 only. Secondly, the leaked voice lines that are left are Soraka, Zoe, Riven, Tahm Kench, Viktor, and Shyvana, and having anyone else aside from them is going to be surprising. Though it's not out of consideration. Tristana could be PnZ even without any leaked voice lines because there is Poro Cannon and it'd make sense if that's her card.
My predictions judging from the Road Map in the end, showed someone who looked like the same race as Black Market Merchant and Tahm Kench so based on that I'll say that we're getting Tahm Kench for Bilgewater. I'd say we're also probably going to get Soraka because a lot of her cards are already out and the last champ is going to be a completely random one. I'll take a guess and say it's Viktor just because I think that they could save Demacia and Noxus as the last one and base a theme around the two of them.
I'm curious how this will work when it kills a unit and you don't have another unit with 1 cost higher than that unit. Will it even kill the unit? Or will it just summon the next highest? The way it's worded makes me think it will just kill the unit entirely. Meaning that this card would counter its own gameplan by killing the highest cost unit every time and summon nothing after. The way it works makes me think it's probably best to put it in a Tryndamere deck or maybe a new upcoming Last Breath archetype from SI? Not really sure how it's gonna work out but it's a card I would love to tinker with.
I just want to say this because we're talking about Sejuani's level up but the effect is inconsistent. The wording is similar to Lucian's leveled up effect but it doesn't trigger the way Lucian does where it has to wait a turn before you can trigger it and Rally. Meanwhile, Sejuani is able to freeze the board in the same turn you level her up? I'm not sure why it's like this but I feel like this should be considered a bug. I also feel like that if they do change it so it's more consistent with Lucian, it'd be a pretty decent nerf.
Well the closest thing I can think of would be Shellshocker -> Jailbreak another Shellshocker x2 -> Jailbreak into Shadow Fiend -> 3 2/1s and a 4/3 Ephemeral. 10/6 as well, but highly luck-based.
You win this time.
Counter-argument: I agree with Precious Pet being one of the best and Solari Soldier only beats it turn 1. However, if you don't attack with Precious Pet then Solari Soldier is a 2/2, and I think that most of the times the 3 damage on turn 1 vs 2 damage on turn 2 is better for the one using Precious Pet because it's most likely an aggro deck so damage matters more. Solari Soldier is kinda overrated imo. It's a bit worse than Jagged Butcher late game.
I think the best turn 1 swing play would be a nut hand with Spacey Sketcher into Jury-Rig into MoonlightBADCARDNAME into another Spacey Sketcher into another Jury-Rig then The Serpent. Though that's gonna lose you the game lol.
Isn't it just because it's an orc?
I wouldn't mind it that much. I feel like Rally effects are really hard to balance, but making Relentless Pursuit to a 4 Mana card would very much kill it. In which case would effectively make Demacia have only Cithria the Bold and Genevieve Elmheart as finishers.
I wouldn't mind either tbh. I love both regions very much. I would love Cho'gath and I can easily see him being in the game with a concept where he gets bigger with each kill he gets, probably a new big boi control/midrange archetype. I would equally love Rammus to be in the game just as much because I would also love a defense favored keyword instead of offense, maybe a keyword that allows him to block Elusive and Fearsome without being Elusive or 3+ attack.
Though if I had to pick one, I would have to pick Shurima. Mainly because I just want a Rammus OK emote to be in the game lmao.
First, why I think Asol beats out almost all slow decks. I'm not going to claim that slow decks can't beat Asol because there are decks that can beat it such as Warmother's control. However, I think that some decks will have an insanely hard time.
One such deck would be Corina Ledros. I think that they would have a poor matchup against Asol because they can't normally deal with big threats such as Trundle, Mindsplitter, Asol, and other Celestials. That deck only has limited amounts of Thermogenic Beam and Vengeance for those units. Not to mention SpellShields make it incredibly tough for them to beat. Even then, their payoff such as Corina or Ledros + Atrocity doesn't typically beat them because they can just heal with Starshaping or Revitalizing Roar.
But yes, that deck is just hard countered by it. A Nautilus Maokai deck on the other hand would have a very favorable matchup against Ramp Asol as long as they get Deep before Asol is down on the board. Ezreal Karma, in theory, should beat Asol as they could deal with huge threats and stall for a while before going off with their combo but sometimes Asol goes off a bit faster before they get their combo off, and on average Ramp Asol decks should get Asol out on turn 8-9. I think, in that case, an Asol deck is slightly more favored. A deck such using Anivia would be too grindy and take too long to beat Asol, and Asol will just generate Celestials as threats.
Basically, I think that decks that need to reach about 9-10 Mana to go off should lose to Asol's general threats before going off. Grinding him out is not a good gameplan. If they are able to deal with the board or have a gameplan that ignores it then it should be fine as long as they are able to play accordingly. Although I will say that an Asol deck is able to survive a single burst as long as it doesn't kill from full HP.
Also, I might also be getting Meisterz point wrong, but I thought he was on point with the comparison of Ramp Asol with Quest Rogue. A deck that uses big threats and has refills even after having their board cleared, and even though they are a bit control they are a deck that feasts on slow decks. Also, I'm not exactly sure which version of Quest Rogue he was referring to, but in my mind, it'd be the The Caverns Below version that was only nerfed once when the minions were still 5/5s. The deck was one of the highest winrate decks but at the time there were a lot of Mages and Warriors and Quest Rogue has an almost auto-win as long as it's not an aggro deck. I think this was about Rastakhan's Rumble? Even then, I think it was still played after the second nerf.
I don't think Ramp Asol is busted or oppressive, but just unfun to play against if you're a slow control deck. It's just too fast for slower decks but it's too slow for faster decks.
I suppose I'll say that the ramp cards were never a problem ever again after they got nerfed. (I'm talking about Wyrding Stones, and Catalyst of Aeons) The only new ramp card we got this time around is the Faces of the Old Ones which saw some play but I'm not sure everyone runs it.
I think that the problem with Aurelion Sol is that he is so easy to level and the cards that you use before AurelionBADCARDNAME Sol are very good and synergistic. These cards would be like Infinite MindsplitterBADCARDNAME, Trundle, Starshaping, Icequake, etc. If you're fighting a slow deck then you are most likely going to win as Aurelion Sol is quite hard to beat early on when the opponent still has like 8 Mana (maybe with 2-3 spell Mana banked.) and even if you don't have Aurelion Sol here, you could have Wyrding Stones to Trundle or Icequake on turn 4 and that shuts down some decks entirely.
I remember Meisterz once said that this Ramp Asol deck is very akin to Quest Rogue in Hearthstone and I couldn't agree less. It's a deck that if you are moderately faster than them, you have quite a good chance to win as long as they don't draw an insane hand. The decks that Hellcopter listed as the slow control decks all loses to this Ramp Asol deck for the same reason that these decks just lose because they can't deal with threat after threat after threat without losing resources and being burnt out in the end to a random big Celestial. Because it's not like RuinationBADCARDNAME beats Asol, it's RuinationBADCARDNAME + cheap spell that does.
Then the easy fix to him is just to make his Level Up to be worse than it is right now. Either its condition, its payoff, or both.
The deck isn't high winrate but that's only because the decks it loses to are the ones that are in Tier 1. Mostly decks that have good midrange and burn tools. I expect that Ramp Asol would do better if some of these Tier 1 decks weren't here, but I don't expect the winrate to skyrocket because other similar decks would just appear.
Something interesting I found out while playing a similar deck to this is that 1 drops aren't as good as I thought they were. Namely Hapless Aristocrat. Sometimes I find myself just skipping turn 1 Barkbeast because I have a Mistwraith and Risen Mists in Hand so that I can have 2 3/2s with fearsome on the open attack. So I think that you can cut 2 Hapless Aristocrats for something else.
Also, the reason why you found Doombeast to be lackluster I feel should be Neverglade Collector. They both do the same thing but Doombeast is harder to counter than Neverglade Collector, but Neverglade Collector can single-handedly end games.
I don't think it is a case of git gud. I've seen quite a fair share of games with Aurelion Sol and yes they may not be the best deck in the game. (I think Swain TF is.) However, I do think that just because it's not Tier 1 does not mean that it does not need tweaking. I think there should be more counterplay to Aurelion Sol, just as there should be more counterplay to other cards like Riptide Rex and Ezreal. That's why I think that if they change Aurelion Sol's Level Up condition, I'd be fine with. Just tone it down a bit. Otherwise, his decks are fine where they are now. The cards they run aren't bad nor are they outright broken. They have a very decent winrate to be called a competitive deck. It's just sometimes unfun to play against.
I think that Aurelion Sol, at least what he does as a card, is fine. His theme is supposed to be a game-ending bomb that allows you to play massive creatures and spells that swing the game in your favor, and that is exactly what he does. A giant space dragon that can create galaxies should have a power that is similar to that.
I think that the problem is that he does it too consistently that most other decks can't really keep up unless they're aggro and beat the crap out of their Nexus. The only good nerf I can imagine that would possibly satisfy everyone is that his Level Up condition needs to be increased, by quite a bit as well. We have Purrsuit of Perfection crying in the corner because even though his statline is massive and works well as a game-ending tool, his condition to summon it is insanely hard to do. Meanwhile, dropping Aurelion Sol on 10 Mana would occasionally just cause him to level up if the opponent has no answers. Maybe his stats as well, because even without leveling up, a 10/10 with SpellShield that draws you a really good card when you play him is already good enough by itself.
I think that Aurelion Sol would be a pretty fair and balanced card if he were an 8/8 that level up when you have 25 or 30 power. That at the very least allows some more counterplay when he is played on 10 Mana.
Yeah, I know. He just kinda falls short because of that. This deck has a lot of Nightfall activators already and I don't think his statline helps much here
You are wrong