Man, The Gray Apothecary is kinda scary. It's a lot of value and relatively cheap if you run a lot of 5+ Power cards. Comparing it to something like Preservarium, it's pretty good if you're running it in Reputation.
Maybe you're right for most decks, but I don't agree if you think burn aggro isn't going to run her. In my eyes she's a 1 mana 2/2 quick attack that can't block and gives a skill trigger which synergizes with her package. All this means is that she's going to be strong at least in her own deck but won't be elsewhere. Annie's level up is also much easier to trigger than Zoe and that is why it's weaker. Tibbers isn't a strong card by its own but it gets generated for free and it's a stun with a big body. Yes, it's 6 mana but if you're running burn aggro, you will most likely be running out of cards and if you get Tibbers off you most likely won't be able to play him before turn 6. Her champ spell is also pretty strong and for a lot of champions it matters a lot.
All in all, I think she's going to be like Irelia. Kinda meh in most decks but incredible annoying to deal with in Azirelia.
Yeah I don't see how she's making it out of burn aggro. She's a 2/2 quick attack that can't block. Slower decks don't really want that. Tibbers is also not strong enough on his own since he's only generated once and that's if Annie survives 2-3 rounds.
Her champ spell is pretty strong though. Cheap and situational but that's exactly what you want from a champ spell. Card itself is probably not that maindeckable but idk.
I think it's strong but probably an overreaction. I don't see her making it outside of aggro and for a 2/2 quick attack her value would drop quite quickly when facing certain decks. Comparing her to Zoe, I'd say Zoe is stronger simply because her resource generation is gamewinning and can be slotted in more decks than Annie.
For what it's worth a 1 drop with 2 health is pretty much the best you can get. Removals that deal 2 often costs more than that so you're going to be up in value quite often.
I'll say that she's weak to challengers because 0 power is just a prime target but I expect that Jhin Annie would run stuns. There's 3 skill based stuns on 2 mana, I'd be surprised if one didn't make it to a list.
In a way she's like Zoe, fairly easy to remove outside of blocking but if you can't deal with it, you might just auto lose.
I'm worried if this is what future Runeterra champions look like. I don't particularly mind what Bard does as a champion, it's nothing too crazy but it's interesting because it's one of the first champions that directly synergizes with hand and deck buffs.
However, his Origin is so much more limiting than what I would have expected. Jhin's Origin allows him to get more tools because it's based on Skills which the game had plenty of before his introduction and would only grow even if some cards aren't meant to be for him, he would still benefit it from it. Comparing that to Bard whose Origin only allows cards that is basically his package makes it a lot less interesting because you have a smaller pool and won't grow as much as Jhin's until they print a card that specifically says chime. It's like Lurk in a way, you can only play cards that say Lurk so you're stuck between Shurima and Bilgewater. And if not then you're playing with effectively 1 region less.
I wouldn't mind if his Origin had mentioned planting boons instead of chimes because at the very least it would allow him to deckbuild with future boon cards as well and not only chimes. Hell, I wish he was just a Targon/BC champion instead. This is disappointing, I hope they consider about changing the deckbuilding restriction.
Nightfall didn't really need another finisher, however that is if you're talking about a strictly SI/Targon Nightfall deck. This card at least allows you to branch out a bit from these two regions and that's great.
Revna isn't a finisher by any means, they probably need a Champion that works with deck buffs specifically for hand/deck buffs archetype to work.
Stagehand is legitimately scary. Good on both aggro and control decks.
Lord Broadmane doesn't work with landmarks so Time Bomb is a no go.
Legion Deserter is pretty scary. Effectively another Viego if you're running him in the deck. Encroaching Mists does give him +2/+2 instead of the usual +1/+1. Noxus Viego has been done before with Sion so I expect that they'll switch him out for LeBlanc or Rumble now. Not sure why this card is part of Jhin's support cards but I'm assuming there's going to be another everywhere minion type buff in Jhin's support cards.
Harrowing Return is just a Fearsome support card branded as an ephemeral support card. You play more with Mistwraiths than you do with Hecarim at least. They probably need a card that rallies or allows cards to free attack like Ruined Reckoner.
While I understand how strong a burst pass can be in critical moments, it feels like most of the time you're not achieving much and are only prolonging some pretty obvious decisions. I know the term that comes up a lot which is 'a smart player just passes back' when they get burst passed but I would also say that it doesn't take a genius to burst pass in the first place. There's also the fringe cases where infinite combo decks just pop off using burst and focus cards only and just often hold the game hostage. This at least mitigates some of them in the future albeit a small portion of it. I much prefer this approach to try and make the mechanics of the game more consistent and more enjoyable.
Other than that, Karma got heavily nerfed with the play/cast changes since a lot of the other partner champions she's usually with like Ezreal, Lux and Heimer no longer work off of her. While I have mixed feelings about this change, the devs seemed to promise that they will be taking extra notice to the affected cards. Hopefully, this change will be for the better.
I think Inner Beast is playable in Udyr decks. The other two cards feel a bit awkward and slow. Might of the Vanguard might see experimentation with the Elite buffs but I'm not sure if an Elite deck could ever bank spell mana to cast it on turn 6 for a big swing. For Glory looks terrible to play without Reputation yet you wouldn't really want to get 2 Trifarian Gloryseeker after you already hit Reputation.
I'm pretty happy with this patch. A lot of the champions feel like they would be substantially stronger with these changes. I'm kinda excited for LeBlanc Udyr to be a thing now. A lot of the other champions feel like they could be played in other decks than they were initially intended.
Since decks with higher playrate will have a lower winrate and if it was truly a bad deck, it would not be able to maintain 50% winrate for so long despite having a ton of counters in the meta.
This is a subjective thing. None of the "counters" are getting higher than about a 2% playrate. Since mono-shurima has a 23% playrate, the mono-shurima players have a much higher chance of a mirror than a counter, honestly.
And that's the biggest reason it will continue moving to 50% winrate as the playrate increases.
That's a fair assessment actually.
If you were to take the top decks according to playrate, Mono Shurima has a favorable matchup against very few of them and has an unfavorable matchup to everything else. But if you were to tally up the playrate top decks that Mono Shurima has less than 50% winrate against decks that Mono Shurima has 50% winrate or more against (including mirrors), it'll see that the decks that have an equal or favorable matchup for Mono Shurima have a bigger presence in the meta than the "counters".
Also out of curiosity, which kind of data set are you guys using (personally I use lor-meta and llorr-stats) because depending on the site you're using the playrate and winrates of decks may be wildly varied. But in general, Mono Shurima has 25% playrate while maintaining 49-50% of a winrate. In terms of strength, Mono Shurima is doing well in that department. Since decks with higher playrate will have a lower winrate and if it was truly a bad deck, it would not be able to maintain 50% winrate for so long despite having a ton of counters in the meta.
Is it tier 1 material? Eh, that's a bit hard to say still. Maybe in a week or so, there'd be a more defined meta and they become a tier 2 deck. But there could also be a case where the deck lists gets even more refined and goes to tier 1.
I think Ez/Cait is unfavored because it's a harder deck to use in general and is a combo deck which gets their pieces slower than Mono Shurima can get it in general. Also while a well-timed Scorched Earth can just win you games, most Mono Shurima decks run Rite of Negation and Soothsayer, and a single one of those could just as easily beats people who didn't draw it super early or didn't have a good opportunity to use it.
If you really want to go super favored into Mono Shurima, just run Cait/Teemo. They can't really deal with burn that well and shrooms just demolish the Emperor's Deck. I've even been running Entrapment just because it can hit a lot of Emperor's Guard.
I think that having a 17% playrate while retaining a 53% winrate is pretty absurd for a deck and I think that the only other time I've seen something close to that was around when Azir Irelia released which I believe had something around 10% playrate and 58% winrate? Idk I'm really just pulling numbers out of a hat. Though through sheer numbers alone I would probably say the deck is definitely tier 2 and borderline tier 1.
The fact that Azir and Xerath can both level pretty fast in the same deck is pretty nice and definitely strong. Having a 5/9 by turn 6 that pings for 5 damage each round and a deck that can only churn out game-ending values is pretty hard to beat when they get going. I think that depending on how you build your deck, you may have varying consistency with this strategy. My deck runs a lot of predicts while forgoing some cards like Ancient Hourglass or Quicksand and I'm able to get it up about 10-20% of the time by turn 6. I can imagine that if you focus on just turbo leveling your champs and not drawing them you could probably get a faster turn to flip the sun disc but less consistency. Idk if that's better but I like having to win on turn 5.
Is it broken though? I wouldn't say it is as of now. Maybe it will be, maybe it won't. There are a lot of decks that have similar hype around launch before dying down to obscurity the following week. The recent cases of Iceborn Legacy Poros and Dragons with the buff to Dragon's Clutch is a prime example of this. There are also decks designed to counter it already like Viktor Riven Ambush or Taliyah Ziggs. Burn and aggro does well into it and a single well-timed landmark removal may just swing the game. Regardless of how it is, I would say that it will impact the meta a fair amount and probably settle in tier 2 just like all the aforementioned decks but I still wouldn't be surprised if it's any higher as well.
Man, The Gray Apothecary is kinda scary. It's a lot of value and relatively cheap if you run a lot of 5+ Power cards. Comparing it to something like Preservarium, it's pretty good if you're running it in Reputation.
Damn, Riot really stepped up their game with these skins.
Also, good call pre-nerfing burn aggro right before it comes out.
Maybe you're right for most decks, but I don't agree if you think burn aggro isn't going to run her. In my eyes she's a 1 mana 2/2 quick attack that can't block and gives a skill trigger which synergizes with her package. All this means is that she's going to be strong at least in her own deck but won't be elsewhere. Annie's level up is also much easier to trigger than Zoe and that is why it's weaker. Tibbers isn't a strong card by its own but it gets generated for free and it's a stun with a big body. Yes, it's 6 mana but if you're running burn aggro, you will most likely be running out of cards and if you get Tibbers off you most likely won't be able to play him before turn 6. Her champ spell is also pretty strong and for a lot of champions it matters a lot.
All in all, I think she's going to be like Irelia. Kinda meh in most decks but incredible annoying to deal with in Azirelia.
Yeah I don't see how she's making it out of burn aggro. She's a 2/2 quick attack that can't block. Slower decks don't really want that. Tibbers is also not strong enough on his own since he's only generated once and that's if Annie survives 2-3 rounds.
Her champ spell is pretty strong though. Cheap and situational but that's exactly what you want from a champ spell. Card itself is probably not that maindeckable but idk.
I think it's strong but probably an overreaction. I don't see her making it outside of aggro and for a 2/2 quick attack her value would drop quite quickly when facing certain decks. Comparing her to Zoe, I'd say Zoe is stronger simply because her resource generation is gamewinning and can be slotted in more decks than Annie.
For what it's worth a 1 drop with 2 health is pretty much the best you can get. Removals that deal 2 often costs more than that so you're going to be up in value quite often.
I'll say that she's weak to challengers because 0 power is just a prime target but I expect that Jhin Annie would run stuns. There's 3 skill based stuns on 2 mana, I'd be surprised if one didn't make it to a list.
In a way she's like Zoe, fairly easy to remove outside of blocking but if you can't deal with it, you might just auto lose.
Jhin, Illaoi, Bard: 4 drop
Annie: 1 drop
Jhin: cries in a corner
(Yes I get that Annie being a 1 drop has nothing to do with Jhin and makes more sense but it's just funny to me.)
I really like all these cards. They all seem kinda meh at first but I feel like half of them are sleeper OP.
Wings of the Cryophoenix being able to consistently deal 3 on 4 is pretty strong despite it being 7 mana.
Dragon Roost seems terrible in Dragons but seems especially strong in a landmark deck.
Dragon Ambush seems bad because it summons 2 ephemerals but in ephemeral decks or Azirelia decks it can definitely swing games.
Don't get me wrong about Bard. I don't hate the card itself, I hate that his "region" is 6 cards including himself.
I'm worried if this is what future Runeterra champions look like. I don't particularly mind what Bard does as a champion, it's nothing too crazy but it's interesting because it's one of the first champions that directly synergizes with hand and deck buffs.
However, his Origin is so much more limiting than what I would have expected. Jhin's Origin allows him to get more tools because it's based on Skills which the game had plenty of before his introduction and would only grow even if some cards aren't meant to be for him, he would still benefit it from it. Comparing that to Bard whose Origin only allows cards that is basically his package makes it a lot less interesting because you have a smaller pool and won't grow as much as Jhin's until they print a card that specifically says chime. It's like Lurk in a way, you can only play cards that say Lurk so you're stuck between Shurima and Bilgewater. And if not then you're playing with effectively 1 region less.
I wouldn't mind if his Origin had mentioned planting boons instead of chimes because at the very least it would allow him to deckbuild with future boon cards as well and not only chimes. Hell, I wish he was just a Targon/BC champion instead. This is disappointing, I hope they consider about changing the deckbuilding restriction.
Nightfall didn't really need another finisher, however that is if you're talking about a strictly SI/Targon Nightfall deck. This card at least allows you to branch out a bit from these two regions and that's great.
Revna isn't a finisher by any means, they probably need a Champion that works with deck buffs specifically for hand/deck buffs archetype to work.
Stagehand is legitimately scary. Good on both aggro and control decks.
Lord Broadmane doesn't work with landmarks so Time Bomb is a no go.
Legion Deserter is pretty scary. Effectively another Viego if you're running him in the deck. Encroaching Mists does give him +2/+2 instead of the usual +1/+1. Noxus Viego has been done before with Sion so I expect that they'll switch him out for LeBlanc or Rumble now. Not sure why this card is part of Jhin's support cards but I'm assuming there's going to be another everywhere minion type buff in Jhin's support cards.
Harrowing Return is just a Fearsome support card branded as an ephemeral support card. You play more with Mistwraiths than you do with Hecarim at least. They probably need a card that rallies or allows cards to free attack like Ruined Reckoner.
While I understand how strong a burst pass can be in critical moments, it feels like most of the time you're not achieving much and are only prolonging some pretty obvious decisions. I know the term that comes up a lot which is 'a smart player just passes back' when they get burst passed but I would also say that it doesn't take a genius to burst pass in the first place. There's also the fringe cases where infinite combo decks just pop off using burst and focus cards only and just often hold the game hostage. This at least mitigates some of them in the future albeit a small portion of it. I much prefer this approach to try and make the mechanics of the game more consistent and more enjoyable.
Other than that, Karma got heavily nerfed with the play/cast changes since a lot of the other partner champions she's usually with like Ezreal, Lux and Heimer no longer work off of her. While I have mixed feelings about this change, the devs seemed to promise that they will be taking extra notice to the affected cards. Hopefully, this change will be for the better.
Darius Gnar is a pretty solid deck rn if you want to try it. Though I imagine that most of its power does still come from Gnar rather than Darius.
I think Inner Beast is playable in Udyr decks. The other two cards feel a bit awkward and slow. Might of the Vanguard might see experimentation with the Elite buffs but I'm not sure if an Elite deck could ever bank spell mana to cast it on turn 6 for a big swing. For Glory looks terrible to play without Reputation yet you wouldn't really want to get 2 Trifarian Gloryseeker after you already hit Reputation.
I'm pretty happy with this patch. A lot of the champions feel like they would be substantially stronger with these changes. I'm kinda excited for LeBlanc Udyr to be a thing now. A lot of the other champions feel like they could be played in other decks than they were initially intended.
Malphite and Vladimir are also getting buffs.
Source:
https://twitter.com/PlayRuneterra/status/1517639254318276608?cxt=HHwWgICjrY233o8qAAAA
That's a fair assessment actually.
If you were to take the top decks according to playrate, Mono Shurima has a favorable matchup against very few of them and has an unfavorable matchup to everything else. But if you were to tally up the playrate top decks that Mono Shurima has less than 50% winrate against decks that Mono Shurima has 50% winrate or more against (including mirrors), it'll see that the decks that have an equal or favorable matchup for Mono Shurima have a bigger presence in the meta than the "counters".
Also out of curiosity, which kind of data set are you guys using (personally I use lor-meta and llorr-stats) because depending on the site you're using the playrate and winrates of decks may be wildly varied. But in general, Mono Shurima has 25% playrate while maintaining 49-50% of a winrate. In terms of strength, Mono Shurima is doing well in that department. Since decks with higher playrate will have a lower winrate and if it was truly a bad deck, it would not be able to maintain 50% winrate for so long despite having a ton of counters in the meta.
Is it tier 1 material? Eh, that's a bit hard to say still. Maybe in a week or so, there'd be a more defined meta and they become a tier 2 deck. But there could also be a case where the deck lists gets even more refined and goes to tier 1.
I think Ez/Cait is unfavored because it's a harder deck to use in general and is a combo deck which gets their pieces slower than Mono Shurima can get it in general. Also while a well-timed Scorched Earth can just win you games, most Mono Shurima decks run Rite of Negation and Soothsayer, and a single one of those could just as easily beats people who didn't draw it super early or didn't have a good opportunity to use it.
If you really want to go super favored into Mono Shurima, just run Cait/Teemo. They can't really deal with burn that well and shrooms just demolish the Emperor's Deck. I've even been running Entrapment just because it can hit a lot of Emperor's Guard.
I think that having a 17% playrate while retaining a 53% winrate is pretty absurd for a deck and I think that the only other time I've seen something close to that was around when Azir Irelia released which I believe had something around 10% playrate and 58% winrate? Idk I'm really just pulling numbers out of a hat. Though through sheer numbers alone I would probably say the deck is definitely tier 2 and borderline tier 1.
The fact that Azir and Xerath can both level pretty fast in the same deck is pretty nice and definitely strong. Having a 5/9 by turn 6 that pings for 5 damage each round and a deck that can only churn out game-ending values is pretty hard to beat when they get going. I think that depending on how you build your deck, you may have varying consistency with this strategy. My deck runs a lot of predicts while forgoing some cards like Ancient Hourglass or Quicksand and I'm able to get it up about 10-20% of the time by turn 6. I can imagine that if you focus on just turbo leveling your champs and not drawing them you could probably get a faster turn to flip the sun disc but less consistency. Idk if that's better but I like having to win on turn 5.
Is it broken though? I wouldn't say it is as of now. Maybe it will be, maybe it won't. There are a lot of decks that have similar hype around launch before dying down to obscurity the following week. The recent cases of Iceborn Legacy Poros and Dragons with the buff to Dragon's Clutch is a prime example of this. There are also decks designed to counter it already like Viktor Riven Ambush or Taliyah Ziggs. Burn and aggro does well into it and a single well-timed landmark removal may just swing the game. Regardless of how it is, I would say that it will impact the meta a fair amount and probably settle in tier 2 just like all the aforementioned decks but I still wouldn't be surprised if it's any higher as well.