I mean, if you ignore the Invoke (since we don't know it's value in the real world), it takes 4 friendly units for this to even equal Magma Rager. Not great...
Yeah, if we consider Rastakhan's Midrange Hunter, the only epics and legendaries are 2 Master's Call and Deathstalker Rexxar: I mean ok, they're pretty dang good cards, but I'm sure there are 3 more aggro-oriented commons/rares in Wild that can easily fill up the hole (maybe Leeroy Jenkins + double Quick Shot?)
Barnes is still too god for 5 mana since BigPriest has no legit turn 5 play anyway besides from the 2/6 deathrattle dude maybe.
Extra Arms was very strong for 2 but I dont think it needed a nerf now.
Lunas Galaxy.. Yeah well that one had to be.. Although I enjoyed playing it in my Wild RenoMage.
Conjurers Calling still feels to good for just 4 mana but we will see..
The thing with the Barnes and CC nerfs is that now they come down at least a full turn later (two turns for the Twinspell CC double) which gives decks either more time to murder the Big Priest before he comes online, or time to get counterplay/reaction options. Not saying it'll be enough, who knows, but that's the reasoning. Don't underestimate the power of a full extra turn delay
are you seriously just gonna pull a "they tested this, they know what they're doing?"
you realize yo're talking about the same people who released SNIP SNAP and didn't even consider Reckless Experimenter when it's t he first thing the community noticed when it was announced.
but hey, you'll see it yourself when Warrior's winrate drops a SOLID 0,5% after this and people will still get highrolled to death by Mage.
A little confused here.... Dropping a win rate 0.5% is a pretty solid target. Is this actually a complaint about Blizzard not nerfing a card to the ground?
The card is objectively worse now, but seems like it should be playable. If it works out how it seems (and like you're suggesting) I'd say that's a pretty solid nerf!
Man, Barnes nerf, after all those years of ignoring it, feels like an atom bomb almost... It probably won't kill Big Priest, but that was probably their intention too. I am happy that they did it anyway. There's still no counterplay or interaction against Resurrect mechanics... maybe one day.
They could have done the nerfs differently, sure. But at least its about 2-3 weeks into expansion, so nerfs arrive REALLY quickly this time. Probably 1 week quicker than in RoS i think. So +1 to Blizzard for that :)
No counter play, except for literally any transform effect. Well, except Conjurors calling maybe, but that card doesn't need any more utility. But Plague of Murlocs, Tinkmaster (I mean, I know he's terrible now, but he would affect res mechanics), Poly, Hex, devolve, etc etc etc. All of these just destroy your res pool. Anything to summon minions for the opponent (Leeroy?? For a single example), all of these increase the chance of a whiff, and if you can do the transform before they load their res pool in the first place, then you're home and dry.
Not saying it's auto win every time, but I'm responding to the 'no counter play' comment; that's the counter play.
Played winrate is a terrible metric to judge cards by. Of course Earthquake has a low played winrate, because you never play it when you're already winning. You only play it when trying to turn around a game in which you're far behind. This also explains why Dinotamer Brann is so far ahead of the other cards: It's very often played as a finisher, and played winrate doesn't account for all the times it's stuck in your hand. You see the same for cards like Pyroblast and Mind Blast.
I mean, you're right about the finishers, and partly right about the board clear. However, if you're trying to get back into a match with a board clear and you lose more often than not when you use it, it's probably not doing the job? I don't know, you probably need to compare lists that differ by only that card and look at their overall win rate differential?
It is interesting to think about but realistically i don't think it will ever work. If you keep both at the start of the game you kind of screw your opening hand up. If you mulligan one who knows if/when you draw it again, if you can even use it at the point, and also use a deck slot for something that will likely have no value in your hand. I also don't believe games would even last long enough to complete 2 quests. Prove me wrong though, i want to see it work.
I mean, most of them would be solid memes. The Mage one (which is still borderline meme for sure) you would always mulligan the old quest, finish the new quest and then whenever you draw the old quest your new hero power has set you up to smash it out pretty fast. Of course, if you're wanting to utilise the Time Warp effectively then having to wait for it, hold your combo pieces in your hand along with all of your created random spells..... yeah ok, not great times. But maybe you can ditch some of the random generators in favour of more solid survival and/or aggressive cards with the old quest as a backup strategy? I don't know. I don't think it will become good, but I reckon people will try and create some crazy moments.
How does Wardruid Loti work with the quest completed? Will you get all four?
Yes. The hero power works exactly the same as Keeper Stalladris, and as the boss in the Dalaran Heist.
If you want to see it in action there are a number of clips on YouTube from various streamers who had access to play the new stuff against each other recently, go check them out.
Nice card for zoolock. The damage isn't that big of a drawback, so this will certainly see play. The 4 mana 3/5 would be a nice follow up.
I'm curious why the Tol'vir does only 3 damage and not 4. Normally the damage of the warlock minions, who hurt your face, is equal to their attack - Flame Imp, Kobold Librarian, Vulgar Homunculus, Unlicensed Apothecary, Pit Lord. I'm not complaining, but just curious about this design inconsistency.
Most of those only deal the damage once while this repeats. The one that doesn't (Apothecary) costs the same as this and is higher statted, so has a greater drawback, but also one you can control a bit more. There is also the Warlock minion whose name I forget but damages you equal to the damage he takes, which is also different to these, showing that it isn't an internal 'rule'.
Finally, it's quite possible they started at 4 damage but in an internal balance numbers pass dropped it by 1 due to feeling too punishing or something. EDIT: I forgot to say, this is what happened to Flame Imp in the past, it used to deal 2 damage but they increased it to lower the power level of (and/or increase the risk of playing) the card
I mean, even the threat of the secret slows down aggro against mage.... if they flood the board, the secret kills them. If they don't flood the board the mage has more time to stabilise. Win win for mage. Tech in the card if there are a bunch of board flood decks. Solid.
I had such a card in mind and just thought that blizz would never dare to print this. Same reason you can’t give stealth to other minions anymor
Although, Reborn is more like a mix between giving a minion Divine Shield and giving it the deathrattle of another minion on board (in power level.... of course, you're actually giving it it's own deathrattle again). Now, for 1 mana that seems like pretty awesome value I'll readily admit, but it's nothing like hiding a permanent effect behind stealth
So many to choose from..... I'd have to go with the new Sir Finley of the Sands, much potential to build in a few different ways (even if I'm not sure it'll work out). So many great cards though!
The problem with my laptop is about Hearthstone Deck Tracker. not notepad files, if it was about notepad files, i would use that laptop as a picture frame, lol.
My laptop is old, that's why I'm using desktop already but well I can't use my desktop always. Sometimes I need to go another cities because of my job and I can't take my desktop with me, you know, real life issues.
btw to be honest, notepad files are more frustrating than waiting my laptop to response deck tracker. Searching and finding the decks i've created before takes time and every time i am going a different city, I need to resync my decks like job documents. That bothers me so much. I am playing this game for fun but I need to archive my decks like documenting which is so boring to do. What I'm asking for is just an in-game deck archive.
Btw, I am playing a bit different than you. Sometimes I'm creating 2 of same decks with a little difference. I am play-testing the decks myself instead of netdecking, i don't like netdecking so it takes a lot of deck space and when I deleted an old deck but newer one acts worse, i need to build that deck again. I am exporting the old deck from deck tracker. That takes really so much time always getting older decks from tracker to game.
Unlike most players, I don't like to play always same decks, almost every 3-4 days i am changing my decks, sometimes it became day by day. That's why I am longing for more slots.
My suggestion would be (at least until/unless it changes) to use Google Keep. Easy to access and always up to date on all platforms (when you have internet access, but if you're playing Hearthstone that won't be an issue), has an app and widget for your phone, and easy to log into on desktop (not sure if it's possible to have any offline version of it synced, I've never looked into it). Please note, this isn't an argument against Blizzard changing deck numbers, just a potential way to store the decks efficiently in the meantime.
Another possible way (for decks you're experimenting with) would be to just have a single deck, but use a physical notebook (or Keep file, but physical might actually be easier) to annotate changes in or out (and track win rates, vs classes etc - something HDT likely does on Desktop or Laptop, but not Mobile), so that it only takes a single slot but you have the version history to revert etc.
I can't see them printing a card that removes duplicates. For one that's a rather extreme Hate card for a large number of strategies introduced just to make 4 cards work a bit better. For another, it makes the matchup a lot more RNG based: do I get my 'save me' card in time? no, I lose. yes? I probably win. That's the design mentality that made the original Reno which they worked to avoid in the current version. In the end adding hate tech really doesn't fix this type of problem. Tech is better suited for anti-archetype (that is 'anti-aggro, anti-control') or for tweaking a slightly bad but winnable situation to your favor.
I'm guessing if they have to step in, they'll either nerf bomb warrior so that people use it less or change a rule to make singleton decks work with bombs in it. I can imagine it going "if your deck started with no duplicates..." or the like. Which is still a bit meh of an option.
Good points.
The "started with" solution would also remove the ability of players to play, say, 2 Moonfire or Naturalise and wait to draw them before playing Elise for the mooted Wild OTK combo, or other similar concepts which would also have unintended consequences.
And extreme hate cards, I can think of no better example than Skulking Geist. A card which I hated the concept of to the degree that I thought that the reveal of it was a hoax. So they're not by any stretch against printing extreme cards specifically to destroy a single archetype (in that case Jade Druid of course), and I agree 100% that they are very inelegant solutions.
I mean, the flipside to this is, if your laptop can't handle accessing a text document, copying a string and then creating a new deck in HS you probably have an issue with your laptop? I've never had any issues with creating a deck from a code in seconds flat, even on my phone. If it's taking you the length of time it takes to play 2 games (20-30 minutes vs Warriors...) then you really really need to think about upgrading, and that's probably significantly easier than changing the whole client.
For that matter, it might be a good idea to track how often you actually play all of the decks that you have, and for how many games each time. You may find that there are ones you basically never want to play, that there are others you often do, and that you could easily actually get by with 18 if you prioritised them properly, or you may find that you want to play 20 or 30 completely unique decks regularly. If you keep a notebook and track it over a period of time it would give you good data to post (probably more effective in the playhearthstone.com suggestions forum, but here for interest and discussion too) and avoid the replies questioning whether you, or anyone else, really needs 19+ deckslots (ahem, looking at myself!).
Personally I find myself playing maybe up to 5 semi-regularly, and have a few I keep handy for some of the quests like playing low or high cost cards, or class cards so am usually under 9 decks, and never anywhere near 18, but on the other hand I'm also not a huge experimenter because I don't have anywhere near the time nor patience, and if I cull a deck I like I'll save the string and hardly ever find myself wanting to dig an old one out. But that's just me.
Regarding the bomb vs singleton discussion, he did bring up a good point. He said that if the Singleton cards came first and we had decks already out for it, then they added in bomb warrior, people would consider it a very interesting counter that they would want to see happen. The issue is that it's the reverse: we got the counter before we got the cards to be countered, and it's the new fancy cards we want to try that's being countered by the already-used.
I will note though that he used the Blizzard-speak of 'we're looking into it'. Note that I can't remember a time that they said that and it DIDN'T result in a nerf. The overall impression I had with the conversation is that they KNOW it's countering, workarounds would be too clunky or really screw up rules and expectations so they'd rather not go there, but they are hoping that the situation doesn't occur too often (i.e. not everyone playing bomb warrior, and in many games the 2nd bomb doesn't show up early and the League cards are early-midgame). If it does, they'll step in, and their current track record is that it'll be a fast solution.
So I'm cool with it. They know it could be an issue. They already looked into it. They understand their stance and know they could be wrong. They are ready to fix it if they are wrong.
I haven't listened yet, I plan to, but my initial thoughts are that it's an interesting situation, and I can understand the stance..... and I really really hope that they've considered that if there are a lot of bomb decks played (seems that there are) then it will make shiny new legendaries (and signature ones at that) feel really really underwhelming and taint the feeling of players for some time.
If the fix winds up having to be a new card printed to remove duplicates:
1) it either has to be a SN1P-SN4P situation (they've done it once ever if I'm not mistaken) or wait months until the next set (impact: the signature legendaries of this set feel horrible until another set, not ideal); and,
2) It will have a pretty massive impact on the opportunity cost to gain the benefit.... Can I see it being run in a (for example) Nomi deck, or Togwaggle style deck to race to your empty deck faster? Can I see it making the average card in the highlander decks much much stronger? Yes to both of the above. Reducing your deck to 15 one-ofs compared to 30 one-ofs makes a deck much shorter, but far higher average quality and then there are various refill options too. Not to mention that you can just include the Reno-esque card and the singleton enabler in any old deck for the option to 'break glass in emergency' if you want the effect, and play a fully effective, normal deck if not.
Probably Blizzard, since they had it on the official site wrong. Doubt the Japanese site would just publicly blame Blizzard for their own fuck up.
I don't know how these things work behind the scenes, but due to the regular and relatively even cadence of reveals I assume that Blizzard are the ones that schedule when reveals should happen, not the individual revealers? With that in mind, a site like this (I don't know them, language barriers and all that) could conceivably have people checking their site all day for a reveal......... and oh, oops, sorry everyone it's actually tomorrow, you'll have to come and check our site all day AGAIN.
Maybe I'm cynical, but given the fairly obvious ad revenue bump the increase in traffic would cause, seems they would have a pretty good financial incentive, and since 'accidents happen', can try to avoid ongoing penalties from Blizzard. Unlikely we'll ever know, but I'd have to give benefit of the doubt to the organisation without the financial incentive to delay.
I think there's some miscommunication here. "Mana:Odd" and "Mana:even" are search strings to use within the Hearthstone client. I expect that the OP is looking for it for this site (hence the forum posted in).
Fairly sure he meant he wasn't sure what it was about the artwork that he liked so much, not a lack of clarity about the subject of the artwork.
I mean, if you ignore the Invoke (since we don't know it's value in the real world), it takes 4 friendly units for this to even equal Magma Rager. Not great...
Presumably not Leeroy... ;)
The thing with the Barnes and CC nerfs is that now they come down at least a full turn later (two turns for the Twinspell CC double) which gives decks either more time to murder the Big Priest before he comes online, or time to get counterplay/reaction options. Not saying it'll be enough, who knows, but that's the reasoning. Don't underestimate the power of a full extra turn delay
A little confused here.... Dropping a win rate 0.5% is a pretty solid target. Is this actually a complaint about Blizzard not nerfing a card to the ground?
The card is objectively worse now, but seems like it should be playable. If it works out how it seems (and like you're suggesting) I'd say that's a pretty solid nerf!
No counter play, except for literally any transform effect. Well, except Conjurors calling maybe, but that card doesn't need any more utility. But Plague of Murlocs, Tinkmaster (I mean, I know he's terrible now, but he would affect res mechanics), Poly, Hex, devolve, etc etc etc. All of these just destroy your res pool. Anything to summon minions for the opponent (Leeroy?? For a single example), all of these increase the chance of a whiff, and if you can do the transform before they load their res pool in the first place, then you're home and dry.
Not saying it's auto win every time, but I'm responding to the 'no counter play' comment; that's the counter play.
I mean, you're right about the finishers, and partly right about the board clear. However, if you're trying to get back into a match with a board clear and you lose more often than not when you use it, it's probably not doing the job? I don't know, you probably need to compare lists that differ by only that card and look at their overall win rate differential?
I mean, most of them would be solid memes. The Mage one (which is still borderline meme for sure) you would always mulligan the old quest, finish the new quest and then whenever you draw the old quest your new hero power has set you up to smash it out pretty fast. Of course, if you're wanting to utilise the Time Warp effectively then having to wait for it, hold your combo pieces in your hand along with all of your created random spells..... yeah ok, not great times. But maybe you can ditch some of the random generators in favour of more solid survival and/or aggressive cards with the old quest as a backup strategy? I don't know. I don't think it will become good, but I reckon people will try and create some crazy moments.
Yes. The hero power works exactly the same as Keeper Stalladris, and as the boss in the Dalaran Heist.
If you want to see it in action there are a number of clips on YouTube from various streamers who had access to play the new stuff against each other recently, go check them out.
Thank you! Early morning brain lol
Most of those only deal the damage once while this repeats. The one that doesn't (Apothecary) costs the same as this and is higher statted, so has a greater drawback, but also one you can control a bit more. There is also the Warlock minion whose name I forget but damages you equal to the damage he takes, which is also different to these, showing that it isn't an internal 'rule'.
Finally, it's quite possible they started at 4 damage but in an internal balance numbers pass dropped it by 1 due to feeling too punishing or something. EDIT: I forgot to say, this is what happened to Flame Imp in the past, it used to deal 2 damage but they increased it to lower the power level of (and/or increase the risk of playing) the card
I mean, even the threat of the secret slows down aggro against mage.... if they flood the board, the secret kills them. If they don't flood the board the mage has more time to stabilise. Win win for mage. Tech in the card if there are a bunch of board flood decks. Solid.
Although, Reborn is more like a mix between giving a minion Divine Shield and giving it the deathrattle of another minion on board (in power level.... of course, you're actually giving it it's own deathrattle again). Now, for 1 mana that seems like pretty awesome value I'll readily admit, but it's nothing like hiding a permanent effect behind stealth
So many to choose from..... I'd have to go with the new Sir Finley of the Sands, much potential to build in a few different ways (even if I'm not sure it'll work out). So many great cards though!
My suggestion would be (at least until/unless it changes) to use Google Keep. Easy to access and always up to date on all platforms (when you have internet access, but if you're playing Hearthstone that won't be an issue), has an app and widget for your phone, and easy to log into on desktop (not sure if it's possible to have any offline version of it synced, I've never looked into it). Please note, this isn't an argument against Blizzard changing deck numbers, just a potential way to store the decks efficiently in the meantime.
Another possible way (for decks you're experimenting with) would be to just have a single deck, but use a physical notebook (or Keep file, but physical might actually be easier) to annotate changes in or out (and track win rates, vs classes etc - something HDT likely does on Desktop or Laptop, but not Mobile), so that it only takes a single slot but you have the version history to revert etc.
Good points.
The "started with" solution would also remove the ability of players to play, say, 2 Moonfire or Naturalise and wait to draw them before playing Elise for the mooted Wild OTK combo, or other similar concepts which would also have unintended consequences.
And extreme hate cards, I can think of no better example than Skulking Geist. A card which I hated the concept of to the degree that I thought that the reveal of it was a hoax. So they're not by any stretch against printing extreme cards specifically to destroy a single archetype (in that case Jade Druid of course), and I agree 100% that they are very inelegant solutions.
I mean, the flipside to this is, if your laptop can't handle accessing a text document, copying a string and then creating a new deck in HS you probably have an issue with your laptop? I've never had any issues with creating a deck from a code in seconds flat, even on my phone. If it's taking you the length of time it takes to play 2 games (20-30 minutes vs Warriors...) then you really really need to think about upgrading, and that's probably significantly easier than changing the whole client.
For that matter, it might be a good idea to track how often you actually play all of the decks that you have, and for how many games each time. You may find that there are ones you basically never want to play, that there are others you often do, and that you could easily actually get by with 18 if you prioritised them properly, or you may find that you want to play 20 or 30 completely unique decks regularly. If you keep a notebook and track it over a period of time it would give you good data to post (probably more effective in the playhearthstone.com suggestions forum, but here for interest and discussion too) and avoid the replies questioning whether you, or anyone else, really needs 19+ deckslots (ahem, looking at myself!).
Personally I find myself playing maybe up to 5 semi-regularly, and have a few I keep handy for some of the quests like playing low or high cost cards, or class cards so am usually under 9 decks, and never anywhere near 18, but on the other hand I'm also not a huge experimenter because I don't have anywhere near the time nor patience, and if I cull a deck I like I'll save the string and hardly ever find myself wanting to dig an old one out. But that's just me.
I haven't listened yet, I plan to, but my initial thoughts are that it's an interesting situation, and I can understand the stance..... and I really really hope that they've considered that if there are a lot of bomb decks played (seems that there are) then it will make shiny new legendaries (and signature ones at that) feel really really underwhelming and taint the feeling of players for some time.
If the fix winds up having to be a new card printed to remove duplicates:
1) it either has to be a SN1P-SN4P situation (they've done it once ever if I'm not mistaken) or wait months until the next set (impact: the signature legendaries of this set feel horrible until another set, not ideal); and,
2) It will have a pretty massive impact on the opportunity cost to gain the benefit.... Can I see it being run in a (for example) Nomi deck, or Togwaggle style deck to race to your empty deck faster? Can I see it making the average card in the highlander decks much much stronger? Yes to both of the above. Reducing your deck to 15 one-ofs compared to 30 one-ofs makes a deck much shorter, but far higher average quality and then there are various refill options too. Not to mention that you can just include the Reno-esque card and the singleton enabler in any old deck for the option to 'break glass in emergency' if you want the effect, and play a fully effective, normal deck if not.
I don't know how these things work behind the scenes, but due to the regular and relatively even cadence of reveals I assume that Blizzard are the ones that schedule when reveals should happen, not the individual revealers? With that in mind, a site like this (I don't know them, language barriers and all that) could conceivably have people checking their site all day for a reveal......... and oh, oops, sorry everyone it's actually tomorrow, you'll have to come and check our site all day AGAIN.
Maybe I'm cynical, but given the fairly obvious ad revenue bump the increase in traffic would cause, seems they would have a pretty good financial incentive, and since 'accidents happen', can try to avoid ongoing penalties from Blizzard. Unlikely we'll ever know, but I'd have to give benefit of the doubt to the organisation without the financial incentive to delay.
I think there's some miscommunication here. "Mana:Odd" and "Mana:even" are search strings to use within the Hearthstone client. I expect that the OP is looking for it for this site (hence the forum posted in).